Yes it is a bad trap. You are allowing your sense of reality to be shaped by a falling down drunk who has a vested interest in justifying her affair. You need to call it what it is: an affair but don't get hung up on definitions. Tell her she can call it a baloney sandwich if she wishes, but it was extremely painful for you and in order for your marriage to ever recover, she has to leave that job.


We gave you the plan. Did you read my posts about what to show her?

CYK: i want to talk to you about what it will take to save this marriage. I love you and know this marriage can be saved, but only on certain conditions.

WW: are you crazy? I am getting a divorce!!

CYK: I agree this will lead to divorce unless we have a plan. I do not want to stay in an unhappy marriage either, but it doesnt' have to be like that. Let me outline a plan that would change that. It is a 2 part plan that will lead to a happy, passionate relationship. The first part is to affair proof our marriage, which means you would have to commit to never seeing or speaking to your affair partner again. That means leaving your job and making our lives completely transparent to each other, making it impossible to have another affair. The next step is to fall in love again by following certain steps.

WW: You must be nuts! i will never agree to leave my job and want a divorce

CYK: I agree we are headed for divorce as it is now but these are the conditions that would motivate me to try to save this marriage. Your affair has hurt me terribly and I have to have assurance it won't happen again in order to try. For the time being I am asking you end your relationship with the OM. Stop hurting me!

It's funny I can see me saying all that and her response would be just that.

Bad phrasing on my part with not having a "plan" I should say I don't know what to do or say when I'm around her.
I still feel like I'm walking on eggshells with her. But I will go over everything you posted, with her.
I half a$$ed telling her the outline of what it would take for us to work it out but stopped when she kept hitting me with "We are getting a divorce! I can't be with someone who would jeopardize someones livelihood! That's hard line in the sand for me!"

Good man! Please remind yourself that you have NOTHING TO LOSE and everything to gain. Don't be deluded into thinking that just being together is a solution. IT IS NOT. Living in the same house with no plan is just a train to divorce. So don't be afraid of upsetting the status quo when the status quo is DIVORCE!

Be brave and confident and jump right into it, my friend! Go fight for your marriage. It is the only hope you have.

And don't get into the trap of trying to talk her out of divorce. You need to AGREE WITH HER about that. Say, yes, this will lead to divorce without a plan. I agree divorce would be better than enduring this hell again. But that is not the only option.

If you AGREE WITH HER, you neutralize that weapon.

I gotta drive that point home to myself that at this point I have nothing to lose. I like the advice about neutralizing the weapon.

Cyk, I know this is scary, but you will lose if you allow fear to guide your path. Don't allow her anger and threats to guide your actions. You need to follow YOUR plan because your plan is the only one that will save your marriage.

It's a dreadful mistake to listen to her. Very depressing!

Don't look for any signs of hope in her words and if you see any, distrust them.

Just listen with half an ear. Listen for opportunities to state your case and to make soothing noises and discard the rest.

I tried to talk with her yesterday got the cold shoulder and her telling me to leave her alone. She was pleasant enough when I walked in the door but when I tried to engage her in conversation asking how her day was she got really mad and blew me off.
Spent the rest of the night in the house separate and quiet.
As she put it we are legally separated at this point and just roommates.

You are not "separated." Be sure and point out to her that you are very married and that even if you really did "separate" [which means to SEPARATE] you are still married. It is important that you make this point, because she will use this to justify cheating.

What does she mean by "legally separated?" Do you have a court order?

No court order, she said that in reference to divorce papers being filed.

I feel like we reset to zero and we are back to where we were a couple months ago, she's got venom in her voice and won't even look at me.
A friend called me this morning just to see how I've been doing got to talking about it all and it kinda reopened some of the wounds I thought were good. He pressed me as to why I want to save my marriage after what she did and her words from the other night got stuck on repeat "I don't feel bad for what I did and I would do it again."
My only reply I had was because I love her. Now yes there are a million plus things that run through my mind when I think about it but the words and verbal expression of those exscape me.
This has definitely been a lesson in patience for me as I have none, always been a procrastinator and looking for a quick fix, I've been trying to work on that. But after this week and the build up to last night and the silence that ensued I woke up in an empty bed again and a quiet house.
Sorry for the sob story and self deprecation I'm putting out, it's kinda back in full force today I'm I'm trying to keep it all internal with a smile in my face.
Any suggestions on how to proceed from here with her?

Nope, just stick with your PLAN. As long as she works with the OM she will be distant and fogged out so just expect it. And once again, I will reiterate that if she has a philosophy of marriage that entitles her to have affairs, you may be looking at your future. I would think very hard on that.

I got my hopes up that it would be over quick once exposing it probably would have been different had i come here sooner and I done it much earlier.
Which is why I'm half tempted to listen to her excuse as to why the affair happened. That she just doesn't want to be married anymore. I just feel a little defeated today. I still will try anything to save my marriage.

First off, your wife is angry that you interfered with her affair. You have really caused alot of trouble for her and the OM. That is a good thing and I suspect the affair is slowly dying as we speak. Your wife had an affair because she has poor boundaries around men. If she "just doesn't want to be married anymore" she would have not had an affair, she would have got divorced.

Don't listen to her fogbabble. She has already come up with many excuses for her affair this is another one. Don't pay attention.

Any suggestions on how to lay my plan out for her if we're back to not talking?
Or even any suggestions on how to get back to talking.
Trying my best to be nice and not say mean or sarcastic things to her.

Why don't you tell her you would like to speak to her? Lay out the plan like I suggested and be sure and let her know you FULLY AGREE that you are headed to divorce if things don't change. You need to neutralize that threat..

Start with something like: "we need to have a talk so you can understand my position......."

You are acting as though the worst case scenario is divorce. The worst case scenario is another affair. You are also listening to a cheater. A proven liar. With wide open ears and believing everything she says! DO NOT LISTEN TO WAYWARDS. I don't care how much you want her to give you words of hope.

She wont. She wont give an inch until the affair is total dust.

As long as there's even a bit of heroin dust left, she's not really your wife.





DO NOT LISTEN TO WAYWARDS. It is getting pathetically easy for her to psych you out. If she wants to sulk, go get ice cream.


I wouldn't be happy with this response from a friend either. Loving her is fine, but both she and all your friends (but especially you) should know you will be ABSOLUTELY getting a divorce unless she can affair proof this marriage. This is the kind of confidence you should be projecting.

Stop listening to her for hope. You will find no hope in a waywards words. The hope is with YOU. You are the hope. Bring the plan, and it's assurance of no more affairs, and your resulting confidence to the fore.

Plan?
1) Stop trying to have serious conversations with someone drunk off their nut on an affair.
2) Reiterate your conditions that YES you will get divorced unless future affairs become impossible.
3) Ignore all the stuff about how she is going to move into the garage so she can bone someone else as a 'legally separated' according to made-up-law woman. Stop expecting to get cosy with someone who's trying to rip out your spleen for drug money.
4) Tell her you love her. BUT that you love yourself too. Hold out for the day she will commit to recovery.
5) Self care. Plan A is a rough old marathon. ADs if necessary.

Great points MelodyLane & indiegirl, all things I really need to remember. I'm looking for hope and positive signs from a junkie and liar - things I'll never get until she's done.