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Originally Posted by Candy_Crusher
So I need others' inputs on this guy. He is 180 degree different from my xBF from the emotional stability and maturity standpoints. He is not a yeller and just does not have AO. He is always positive. He is extremely successful - frankly, I am sure many women would throw themselves at him simply based on his enormous earnings power, but on top of it, he is a nice guy. Really nice guy.

Here is my struggle, however. He calls and texts me ALL THE TIME. Initially I thought it was nice, but it is getting too much. He wants to hear my voice, ok, so I call him, but it is never a 5 minute call. He likes to talk. He talks about anything and everything - which is fine when we have a plenty of time, say on weekends or at night. But he won't stop unless I tell him I need to go. And if I say I need to go take care of XYZ, he would say "OK, call me when you are done" or "I will call you later". If we talk again on the phone, it becomes another long chat and it is hard for me to get out. For example, he just left for vacation this afternoon with his daughter. I woke up this morning to 10 text messages from him. Then he called me (I was in a meeting and missed it). I texted him back wishing him a safe and fun trip - told him that I was in a meeting and would be in another so would not be able to talk. He texted me back, and then called me on my cell again, which again I could not take because I was in another meeting. He then called my office phone. Then he left me another text. I replied by text. Then he called me again an hour later.... It just never ends!

Sometimes I want to say these phone calls and textings are too much for me, at least for now given where we are (as far as I am concerned, we are not BF/GF yet and he shares the same view but he has been asking me to be his GF). But I am afraid I will hurt his feelings. He constantly asks me if "I think of him before going to bed and when I wake up", which I do not..... yet..... but I cannot say so. He says he feels the 'magic' about 'us' and that he is 'certain' that is how I feel too. He also wants to see me A LOT. Even when I say I am busy in the evening after work, he would say he would drive for 1+ hour just to have a cup of coffee with me. I told him to not do that, and he sounded very disappointed.

Only if he backs off a bit.... I can see myself falling in love with him. He has all the traits I love and respect.... except for his neediness. Am I wrong how I view this? Can we still apply Dr. Harley's principle? Am I just getting cold feet, or are there actually any red flags? I am so confused.


Hi CandyCrusher,

First off, I'm glad that you are meeting some nice people, in contrast to your past experiences with xBF. But reading your comments about "nice guy", yes he is exhibiting what appears to me to be very needy behavior. Hey who knows, maybe you have met his ENs so quickly that he has in fact fallen for you. As many told you here, though, you might want to proceed at a much slower pace. Remember, *many* men would appear to be huge improvements over the freeloader you were with for so many years. If it were me, I would want to be cautious about the rebound effect, and getting serious with someone too quickly.

I'll let the ladies here reply with their opinions, but I suspect that for most women, a man acting needy is a turnoff. I think your concern about this is not atypical. What is his background? Is he divorced or recently out of a long term relationship? I wonder if he's recently out of a bad relationship, and if you're a contrast to his xGF or xW, it might account for why he seems to have fallen so quickly for you. Then again, maybe you're just a great catch! Remember what we told you before, you deserve much better than what you had. Raise that bar, and keep it high!

Have you dated any other men? As in Dr. Harley's 30-date recommendation, by not committing to a relationship with someone too soon and dating a number of people, you will be better able to compare the qualities (or faults!) of the people you date. Also, from reading some threads about dating on this forum, by dating a number of different people, you gain valuable insight into YOUR emotional needs, and what YOU need in a future serious relationship.

All the best!

Last edited by abrrba; 04/04/18 02:56 PM.

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With that said, I'm no expert at dating. I'll be getting back into the dating world in the next few months, after a recent divorce from a marriage of 23 years. I haven't dated since 1991!!

A lot has changed since then. For one, texting didn't exist, even email and cellphones were rare for most people. I text/email/phone a bit (I work in IT, so I'm no luddite), but I suspect most people do so FAR more than I do. I guess what I'm getting at, is I'm ignorant of social etiquette and norms regarding texting/communicating with the opposite sex in the modern era. smile

When I was dating, it was courtesy to call the day after a date. But in this era of instant & ubiquitous communication? Do I text later that day, or is next day still acceptable? Will women think I'm aloof if I don't text the same day, or will they find it clingy if I do? DD1 recently asked me if I plan to start dating soon, and jokingly commented "remember, after a date you have to text her later, don't be a jerk". But she's 17, her generation is glued to the smartphone. Is the etiquette different for someone my age? (49)

As you can see, I've been giving this some thought. wink

Last edited by abrrba; 04/04/18 02:58 PM.

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Originally Posted by Candy_Crusher
He has all the traits I love and respect.... except for his neediness. Am I wrong how I view this? Can we still apply Dr. Harley's principle? Am I just getting cold feet, or are there actually any red flags? I am so confused.


Dr Harley advises dating 30 different people. This is not because the 30th will be The One but because dating lots of different people gives you perspective. A bad relationship leaves you with terrible self esteem. It is only once you start dating (and flirting of course) that you become alive again so the process matters as much as the result.

You also have to prevent yourself from getting serious quickly, very easy to make that mistake if you have just come out of a long term relationship. Date for 6 months as a freeloader (meaning you date others too). If things are still great, date for a further 6 months as a renter (meaning you agree to date exclusively). By the end of a year, you will hopefully have spent enough time with one another that you know whether you wish to become a buyer.

There should be no 'if onlys'. Mr Right needs to be perfect. Don't be tempted to compromise. The tiniest red flag at the freeloader stage will eventually become a relationship killer. I'm seeing at least one here.


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Originally Posted by Candy_Crusher
So I need others' inputs on this guy. He is 180 degree different from my xBF from the emotional stability and maturity standpoints. He is not a yeller and just does not have AO. He is always positive. He is extremely successful - frankly, I am sure many women would throw themselves at him simply based on his enormous earnings power, but on top of it, he is a nice guy. Really nice guy.

Here is my struggle, however. He calls and texts me ALL THE TIME. Initially I thought it was nice, but it is getting too much. He wants to hear my voice, ok, so I call him, but it is never a 5 minute call. He likes to talk. He talks about anything and everything - which is fine when we have a plenty of time, say on weekends or at night. But he won't stop unless I tell him I need to go. And if I say I need to go take care of XYZ, he would say "OK, call me when you are done" or "I will call you later". If we talk again on the phone, it becomes another long chat and it is hard for me to get out. For example, he just left for vacation this afternoon with his daughter. I woke up this morning to 10 text messages from him. Then he called me (I was in a meeting and missed it). I texted him back wishing him a safe and fun trip - told him that I was in a meeting and would be in another so would not be able to talk. He texted me back, and then called me on my cell again, which again I could not take because I was in another meeting. He then called my office phone. Then he left me another text. I replied by text. Then he called me again an hour later.... It just never ends!

Sometimes I want to say these phone calls and textings are too much for me, at least for now given where we are (as far as I am concerned, we are not BF/GF yet and he shares the same view but he has been asking me to be his GF). But I am afraid I will hurt his feelings. He constantly asks me if "I think of him before going to bed and when I wake up", which I do not..... yet..... but I cannot say so. He says he feels the 'magic' about 'us' and that he is 'certain' that is how I feel too. He also wants to see me A LOT. Even when I say I am busy in the evening after work, he would say he would drive for 1+ hour just to have a cup of coffee with me. I told him to not do that, and he sounded very disappointed.

Only if he backs off a bit.... I can see myself falling in love with him. He has all the traits I love and respect.... except for his neediness. Am I wrong how I view this? Can we still apply Dr. Harley's principle? Am I just getting cold feet, or are there actually any red flags? I am so confused.


It's not possible to be wrong about what you dislike.

And you dislike being exhausted by the exhausting man.

Personally I'd run. I absolutely hate nice guys. And I mean Nice GuysTM who are selling it like freaking snake oil.

For a few reasons:
1) They treat you and hang off you like you you're a teddy bear who has no life of her own. They talk AT you. A girlfriend is not a pacifier.
2) They're bad at reading cues like glazed eyes and non reciprocal language on the gooiness. Because you're just a teddy bear who's supposed to have glazed eyes duh.
3) Its a hard sell tactic. Not giving you time to think, using hyperbole, pressuring you to buy on the spot. Implying you're rude and ungrateful for missing out on this 'great deal'.

Personally I wouldn't bother with anything other than 'Its not working out for me, we seem on different pages'

If you want to give it one more shot I'd say 'I'm actually just looking to casually date more than one person. I'm not up for discussions about feelings and I'm not up for daily phone calls or texts. I generally only want contact about weekly dates. I really enjoy the ones we're having and I enjoy taking my time. If that's not what you're looking for I understand.

Getting too serious very quickly in a pushy way is actually one of the early warning signs of abusive relationships.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Thanks abrrba, LW, and IG... I needed some validation. I think I do not want to lose him, as he is truly a nice guy and someone I can be attracted to. In the past, I dated some 'nice' guys but I was doing so with my head and not with my heart (I was never really attracted to them).

I do not have any complaints about this new guy, other than that he seems a bit too needy. As you pointed out, abrrba, it is a turn off for me..... if I do not speak to him for a while (only a few hours in this case, lol), I can think of him fondly, yet when I see 20 text messages here and there.... plus all his phone calls and emails, I begin to feel suffocating. I tried to let him know in a nice way, but he simply asked if I do not miss him - I could not say NO to that...

He sent me several pictures from his vacation with another 6 text messages this morning. One of which was asking me to go on a trip with him next time. He says "that must be so awesome, don't you agree - I'm sure we will feel that we still do not have enough time..." I texted him back saying that I would not go on a trip with him because I am not ready yet.... COURAGE! He has not got back to me.....

Well, if he is looking for someone to be on board with him right away at the same fast speed.... and if my answer 'killed' it, then I guess it just means he was not right for me.

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Candy I would just do some more window shopping


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Thanks IG. I was able to tell him (COURAGE #2!) I was feeling overwhelmed with all the texts and calls and that I would prefer less. I felt horrible saying that but figured it's better now than later to address this. If it does not get resolved, then I can minimize my loss so to speak. He said he understands and stopped texting and calling me over excessively. In the meantime, you are right, I should just window shop to find out what is out there and what is really I am looking for.

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Just some update: he has been giving me some space, which has been wonderful. I do not have to fear the 20+ texts or several calls throughout the day. He also wanted to see me each week, every weekend, for both days, and I began to feel that he is putting me under his surveillance. I still need my alone time and time with my girl friends. I mentioned that to him as well - he said that is fine, we can meet less.

Then I feel guilty. I feel like a horrible person saying that to him. And I do not like feeling guilty and/or end up doing things out of guilt... Besides, the fact now I do not have to text / call / get together with him all the time gives me this much relief..... there is something wrong with THAT.

I think I was just in love with the idea of being with someone who is near perfect. He looks great and perfect on the paper. He absolutely adores me and treats me like a princess. But I am not falling for him. It's been a month and a half, and by now, I should at least feel a bit more excited about him, especially given that he is the dream-come-true Prince Charming. I do not know why I am not deeply attracted to him. I don't understand why I am not falling for him. But I do not look forward to seeing him - I realized that. I may, a little bit, but not whole a lot. Maybe I was trying to prove to the world and myself that I could find someone who is great by anyone's standard. I thought I would naturally fall in love with him if he was perfect. I think I am going to let him know that I am not really falling for him and it's not fair that I keep dragging this out. It's going to be an unpleasant task. Sigh.

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Candy, I'm glad that you speak up for what you need, even when that feels new and different to you. After what you've been through, it's a good sign when you're growing so much it makes you think twice, what do you really want? You deserve to check twice with yourself!

Maybe part of why you were not falling for him was the way he was acting, making you feel guilty, was making withdrawals for you? How did your talk go?


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Gah! Away with him. Candy you dont have talk yourself into liking anybody and you certainly dont have to feel guilty!


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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It's been a while since last I checked in. Somehow I was not able to get in for a long time.

Thanks NED and indiegirl. I broke up with him. It was pretty hard to do, because he did not do anything wrong to deserve any hurt, but I began to feel like it was a chore to go see him, and as you said, indiegirl, I was trying to force myself to like him.

Hopefully I am learning to speak up for myself and also to stop (or go back) if I felt it was not right. In my previous relationships, I hardly did neither....

I hope, however, that I am not subconsciously looking for a perfect guy...... who does not exist.

It is really great to hear from you!

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Hi Candy_Crushed, it was so nice to hear that in spite of your struggles things are going better for you. I've continued to work on explaining to H that I have needs too...you can imagine how far that went. I'm still praying & looking for the open door God provides for me to get out.

Now, back to you. How did you manage to get back out there in life? How many female friends do you have to rely on? (I'm struggling to find safe female friends in this small town) And how did you become friends with them?

Glad you decided to stick to window shopping for a while. Sounds like the safest choice any woman could make.
If you can, let me hear from you soon. It feels good to see you making progress. It gives me hope that it truly is possible!

Take care!!
RMW

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Originally Posted by RMW
I've continued to work on explaining to H that I have needs too...you can imagine how far that went. I'm still praying & looking for the open door God provides for me to get out.


That's great! Does he understand your needs and try to meet them?



Originally Posted by RMW
How did you manage to get back out there in life? How many female friends do you have to rely on? (I'm struggling to find safe female friends in this small town) And how did you become friends with them? RMW


It's been a bit of a roller coaster ride. Not as bad as when I was going through divorce or last Sep when my long-term BF moved out, though. I have a busy lifestyle naturally, between my demanding career, long commute, my son's activities, my hobbies, etc. Being busy certainly helps. Still, sometimes when I have a pocket of free time, some sort of loneliness and fear of unknown can sneak up on me.... then I try to write a journal. Writing helps me calm down tremendously.

As for my friends - I have many friends, many of them through my hobbies, but I also have some very close family friends. I am by nature a home buddy, and often I feel like staying in, but I force myself to go out with my friends when they invite me as much as I can. And usually I always end up being glad that I went out. When you stay home alone in the evening, that is when you tend to feel sorry for yourself wink So I try to avoid those moments. Can you get in touch with your old friends via SNS or something? I have many whom I cannot get together with due to distance but still chat every once in a while, to catch up. We all go through some kinds of hurt in life - it helps to know that we are not the only ones who are facing tough time. To me, when I hear all the tragedies on news, it's a great reminder that I am wasting my time worrying about my romantic life..... so trivial compared to much more important aspect of my life (like my son and my loved ones well being)!

Do update us on your progress. We all can learn from each other. Hugs.

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I really don't think he does understand them - not,that I believe he focuses on trying at the moment. I can explain repeatedly, but as long as I give in & give him sf, it's back to square one.

I'm using my time to focus on healing & building my relationship with God even closer and hoping for enough healing from my issues that I can get a job & just support myself.

I don't know how to reach him. I've stopped love busters, even though he hasn't, and I've been meeting his other emotional needs. It's hard enough to control resentment on those, but I remind myself that I need the other things too, not for romance, but for day to day life - my relationship with God helped me realize this. So I can handle that, I'm just hoping there is a breakthrough on a job where I can support myself 100%, or God finally brings him to a point that he sees his own faults, not just others.

Haven't stopped looking for a way to support myself & building self confidence in that area. Guess when I make it to where God knows I'm ready on that part, the door will open. Until then I survive the best I can - and keep marching on.

RMW

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RMW, good to hear from you. So is your plan to file for divorce once you get a job?

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I still need to go talk to a lawyer & find out exactly what the laws are in this state. They've changed over the past few years and I don't know what I will have to give if I end up making a job that is more productive than him. He gets paid cash from hus cab driving so there is no proof of anything he makes other than what he deposits into the bank.
Generally, with his personality type, it's better to just let them file. If I can land a good job & find an apartment far enough away & move my belongings out while he is gone, I will be safer.
Like I said, I need to get out to see a particular lawyer & let them know who he will use as an attorney as well. He has the best, but most crooked lawyer there is in these surroundings. His lawyer has discouraged him from divorcing me, so there must be a reason.
I had planned to go this week, but after missing the signs that a seizure could be on its way, I had one a couple of mornings ago - bad one. My body is still recovering from it. I still can't speak well from the damage to my tongue, and walking is a chore. Everything hurts. Plus I will have to have a divorce lawyer who will allow a free consult. I do not have the money to even visit a lawyer with consult fees. He does. All I can do is hunt, see what is available, and pray for guidance from God and wisdom from those around me. I believe there will be a way, even if at no other time, when God decides it's time. Recently, He has provided for me even when the H didn't. I haven't stopped looking, but until the opportunity is there I can't "force" it to be there.
But I haven't given up, on being free. "Waiting" is the hard part - and just like Dr. Harley told me, don't let him know anything is going on until it's too late.
RMW

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You have a lot on your plate. Do take care of yourself. Do you have money to go see a doctor? You are still covered under your H's insurance right? Take advantage of that and do check yourself out now while you can. Once you get a job and secure a place of your own, you will be so much closer to your freedom. It is weird that your H's lawyer discouraged him from divorcing, I agree, there must be a reason. Well he can hide a lot of things unfortunately for getting paid in cash, but be sure to get his tax return, bank statements, credit card statements, phone records, etc. Often you can piece them together in case he is hiding any assets.

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Hi all - I have nothing really new (tangible stuff) to post, but still have lots of emotional baggages I need to sort through. I have met some new people through work, through friends, etc., and have been asked on a date by a few guys. The guy I dated for a couple of months (the great guy talked about - one I could not feel very exited about) still sends me texts here and there, and indicates that he is still into me.

All of these guys, at least from what I can tell, have far better temper than my ex BF. My xBF was also cheap and a user. Those guys I have met do not appear that way. Intellectually, probably these new guys are better match than xBF.

Still I miss him. I just miss him. He was mean to my child. That should have been enough for me to hate him but I can't. Not sure why.

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