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And do any of the betrayed wives of your OM know?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hoke74 Offline OP
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Thanks Brainhurts. I will listen to them.

No the OM does not live close or work close. We have no reason to cross paths.

The friend who I had the ONS with does live close but since last August I had no contact with him until this week. I contacted him with my husbands permission after my husband contacted him on FB. My husband wanted to know who knew about the ONS. My husband was thinking the absolute worse. My friend assured me that he had never told anyone. He apologised to my husband. The friend is single and owns his own business. My husband feels there is no advantage in exposing the ONS apart from to embarrass himself.

I do believe my husband and when he says he has not been unfaithful to me. Its very unfortunate that hasn't always been 100% truthful and sometimes obstructive with information. Every other relationship I have had, my partner has been unfathful. My own father was unfaithful. I know WH says we are all wired to be unfaithful.

I dont think my husband will follow this path. Im happy to do it - I want to do it. I think it would really help my insecurities.

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Hoke74 Offline OP
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No my husband does not want to expose it to the OM wife. He says he might do one day but not now. He fears it will cause their marriage to break up and that the man might pursue me.

The ONS is a single man.

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Originally Posted by Hoke74
No my husband does not want to expose it to the OM wife. He says he might do one day but not now. He fears it will cause their marriage to break up and that the man might pursue me.


If he doesn't, then you should do it via letter. If their marriage breaks up it will be because the wife makes that choice. That is her right. She is not a pet dog, but a grown woman who has a right to determine her own life.

You don't need to worry about the OM "pursuing" you if you have shut off all avenues of communication. You have a moral obligation to make sure the OM's wife knows the truth so she can protect herself and her children.

I don't see much hope for your marriage if you and your husband won't come here and follow a plan. This looks pretty hopeless as it stands now due to your husbands traveling job. As long as he puts his job before his marriage and is home every night, this will never recover.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by unwritten
In your situation, I would recommend that you both take a polygraph.


I was thinking the same thing. However it is very unlikely that he will agree and the OP is a remorseful wayward. She doesn't currently have the fire, or the evidence, to insist.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane


If he doesn't, then you should do it via letter. If their marriage breaks up it will be because the wife makes that choice. That is her right. She is not a pet dog, but a grown woman who has a right to determine her own life.



Yeah this is not something you get to pass on. As others have said the lie *is* the infidelity. The sex stuff is incidental to the lie. For as long as the lie lives, she is your victim and you stay in limbo. You can reassure her that contact is over and she can make sure of it on her end with this knowledge.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Unwritten and Indie, and also for Hoke74,

I strongly disagree with both of you. You are assuming, because of so-called behavior, that her husband is living a secret life including an affair or more. There us no good reason to mislead her based on theory or sentiment!! We are only hearing one side. He may have had affairs, but, evidence??

Hoke74, do you have hard evidence that your husband Has engaged in an affair? From what you have said, it seems much more likely that your husband is afraid of any exposure due to revealing to anyone that his wife has strayed. And. he hasn't done anything more than expose to friends, Not both of your families. So it's a strong possibility that he is engaged in a PYA for both you and him due to embarrassment to both you and him. I may be entirely wrong and I accept that.

The fact that he is resisting installing EP's may be due to his need to get to a point that he still wants to save this marriage given your confession. I think most husbands can get the getup to fight an affair to win back their wife, But a wife simply boinking a guy in a ONS hard to accept and usually anathema!. Both of you really need direct consult with the Harleys to learn how to disclose to each other where you each are in honest disclosure Just a guy's perspective, but you need to do a lot more!!

Tom

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Originally Posted by Tom2010

I strongly disagree with both of you. You are assuming, because of so-called behavior, that her husband is living a secret life including an affair or more. There us no good reason to mislead her based on theory or sentiment!! We are only hearing one side. He may have had affairs, but, evidence??





The threesome?

As for other affairs; sure we could be wrong.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Hoke74 Offline OP
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I dont have any evidence and I dont actually believe he has had an affair. I feel really guilty of accusing him after all I am the one who betrayed him!

I think the problem lies within my own trust issues and insecurities and the fact that he has kept truths hidden from me in the past.

We are both continuing to read the book and we are discussing it.

It may just be that my husband needs time.

He is trying to make arrangements with work that will mean he can spend more time at home. It will mean delaying a promotion for a year or so. I am also going to work less too so I can go away on trips with him.

Putting in the EPs might at this stage seem like an invasion into his privacy. He might just need so time to get used to the idea. Although he did say he has already been through his emails, looking for and deleting anything from any woman despite knowing he has nothing to hide, which set a few alarm bells ringing. I sincerely hope that if he is keeping any secrets from me, that he does tell me.
I will have the conversation with him one more time.

This has taken its toll on him. Maybe he will want to reveal it to the OBS when he feels ready. If he feels its not the right thing to do at this moment, I will respect his wishes.

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I encourage you to read Dr Harleys articles on trust; basically that blind trust is the worst policy in the world. I would also look at his articles on snooping.

I'm not saying that your husband has definitely cheated; it may be that snooping will totally exonerate him. If so cool. That is what snooping is for!

Equally, it may be that he voluntarily makes his life transparent to you as any betrayed spouse would be encouraged to do. His habit of lying to you may not be covering up anything serious and he may gladly put that aside as part of the programme. His job complicates this but there are other jobs.

But I would think poorly of your logic if you did not suspect him a little. He has sex with a woman in front of you and then leaves on his travelling job....where he definitely won't do that without you present? Even if you were enthusiastic about the threesome and felt in control during...itd have to make you wonder. So don't feel too bad about wanting more transparency and radical honesty. Pushing down your doubts and fears has not worked very well for you and is not encouraged by Dr H.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Snooping:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8121_snoop.html

Dr Harley on trust:

"(The) problem is that spouses are often led to believe that trust is something you are required to do when you are married. You have to trust your spouse. But trust is not a requirement for marriage; it's a reaction to experience. It grows as each spouse shows himself or herself to be trustworthy.

Trust should begin with a commitment to be thoughtful and honest. Without that commitment, it's foolish to trust your spouse. Then, that commitment must be followed up with thoughtful and honest behavior. By following the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty consistently, a spouse would eventually prove his or her trustworthiness"

Last edited by indiegirl; 07/28/18 05:17 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Hoke74
I dont have any evidence and I dont actually believe he has had an affair. I feel really guilty of accusing him after all I am the one who betrayed him!

I think the problem lies within my own trust issues and insecurities and the fact that he has kept truths hidden from me in the past.

We are both continuing to read the book and we are discussing it.

It may just be that my husband needs time.

He is trying to make arrangements with work that will mean he can spend more time at home. It will mean delaying a promotion for a year or so. I am also going to work less too so I can go away on trips with him.

Putting in the EPs might at this stage seem like an invasion into his privacy. He might just need so time to get used to the idea. Although he did say he has already been through his emails, looking for and deleting anything from any woman despite knowing he has nothing to hide, which set a few alarm bells ringing. I sincerely hope that if he is keeping any secrets from me, that he does tell me.
I will have the conversation with him one more time.

This has taken its toll on him. Maybe he will want to reveal it to the OBS when he feels ready. If he feels its not the right thing to do at this moment, I will respect his wishes.








Hoke, first off, it is your job to expose to the OM's wife if your husband won't. After all, it was you who did the crime. It doesn't really matter who tells her but she has a right to know.

Secondly, you shouldn't ask your husband if he is having an affair, you should just snoop and find out. You are married and neither of you have a right to have secrets from the other. You already have evidence he is hiding things from you. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

And lastly, your husband needs to find a career that will complement his marriage, not harm it. Taking more trips will never overcome the fact that you are not together every night. You need to be together every night to sustain a marriage. And you certainly need to be together every night to recover your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I agree with the others. You need to put spyware on his devices. Will you do this?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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If he has nothing to hide he would agree to me installing spyware in all his devices. Just like I am happy for him to put spyware on mine.

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Originally Posted by Hoke74
If he has nothing to hide he would agree to me installing spyware in all his devices. Just like I am happy for him to put spyware on mine.



Spyware is useless if the person knows about it. If he knows its there, he can work around it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Hello indiegirl, and I agree about the 3-way, altho as I understand, it was several years ago. This type of desire acted out Can undermine any future trust in a marriage Unless there has been a lot of honest communication and expressed commitment since then. I haven't been here in awhile, and it just seems there has been a little piling on here in Hoke74's favor because it's easy to assume that that the husband has laid the ground for infidelity in a marriage and that he has never understood real openness and trust.


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Hoke74,

Let me explain a little about my comment to you - it was meant to cause you to realize that fighting suspected extra-marital sex or lack of closeness with sex, and NOT really communicating in-between Is a disaster for any marriage. I'm not blaming anyone here or taking sides, because we are all human, and in the human condition. Also, it may be a shock to your husband that you have been sexually active outside of your marriage.

I feel at least you want to, and hopefully your husband, want to reconcile to each other. Indiegirl urged you to engage with your husband in radical honesty. That's sort of a fancy term for just being truthful and sincere AND contrite. Let me explain - I am Catholic and I do go to confession. When I go, the value of my confession depends on whether or not I have been honest, sincere and complete, as well as my commitment not to sin again! It isn't easy tho, not knowing the priest or what he may think. The same principle applies to discussing and admitting to infidelity to your spouse. Embarassing yea, but cleaning also yea. I would urge both of you to read more on radical honesty and to keep in mind commitment to your marriage.


Tom

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Hoke74
If he has nothing to hide he would agree to me installing spyware in all his devices. Just like I am happy for him to put spyware on mine.



Spyware is useless if the person knows about it. If he knows its there, he can work around it.


First research what kind of spyware you would like to use. The Operation Investigate forum has some good suggestions. Then you will test by putting it first on your own device to make sure you can do this in a way that is invisible. My personal preference is for keystroke loggers because that way you can see exactly which app is being opened and used and for what.

Then you will offer your husband access to all your devices giving him passwords etc and ask if he can do the same for you.

Once you have his device, quietly install the spyware. You will want to keep checking this until it gets so boring that there is no reason to continue. Remember that there a lot of value in GPS data. You might casually ask why he is late and compare his answer with the data you have. Never reveal your sources by saying that his answer makes no sense.


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Originally Posted by Tom2010
it just seems there has been a little piling on here in Hoke74's favor because it's easy to assume that that the husband has laid the ground for infidelity in a marriage


Oh I see the misunderstanding. I completely agree. Nobody caused Hoke's infidelity except for Hoke herself. Our main focus is getting her to pay her husband JC, but there is a complication. She can't do that if he is not home every night and she is entitled to snoop if he is not in case there are reasons he wants to retain the job. Snooping is harmless and caring.

It's not about 'who do we favour' but about the order of getting stuff done.

I agree with Melody Lane that job number one, now that she has exposed herself to her own spouse, is to contact the BW since her husband is not doing exposures.

There is no complication there and paying this lady the JC she owes her is a simple matter.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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