Just knowing the possibility exists to meet OM in the workplace is a trigger. Seeing a car like his on the parking lot wil make her wonder if he's there today. Even if there would not be any contact, the mere possibility keep him on her mind and makes it so much more difficult to recover. If they used work email to communicate, opening her mailbox might even be a trigger. Don't underestimate this.

In a weak moment she will be triggered and tempted to check his facebook or linkedin or whatever. Don't underestimate the addiction.

We had a good week followed by an ok week. I've been taking her out as much as I can as this was an issue she had with us but she protests about everything under the sun and begrudgingly will go out. While out the other night we were getting along fine she brought up the topic of us wearing our rings again but has been putting it off because she still thinks about all the ways I left her alone and again exposure of the affair. The night derailed pretty quick at that point and since she's been picking fights with me at every turn.
I called her yesterday morning just to talk with her and she said we should see a marriage counselor to help us but she would like to talk at night. I unfortunately got home much later than we discussed (something which has been happening more frequently with my job) rightfully so she was angry, but felt that it was just a sign that we're not making progress and her being alone is why she had an affair in the first place but yet she's made out to be the bad guy in all this.
I told her that without an affair proof Plan there is no way we could make it work. Which she told me I should stop worrying about the future and things we can't control and it's not like she's seeing anyone now so I should drop the affair.

Cyk, I would explain to her that her affair was the most painful thing you have experienced and you are not willing to go through that again. Ask what she is willing to do to protect you from that. Be a broken record, because you should not even consider a future with her unless steps are taken. At some point, you might need to cut your losses and move on.

ALSO, I would strongly urge you not to go to marriage counseling, because they are destructive to marriages. The typical MC does not understand the dynamics of infidelity and is more likely to validate wayward fog, making it harder for you to save your marriage. The typical MC will have you both air your grievances in a session [major lovebusting] and you both leave more angry than before. It is almost always a disaster.

You don't need marriage counseling, you need her commitment to affair proof your marriage.

Read this Beware of Bad Counselors

MelodyLane- I'm really hesitant about seeing a marriage counselor again we saw one when all this started and it was nothing more than a reassurance to her that an affair was acceptable and the last straw was that I should move out to give her space. No actuall marriage saving going on.

BrainHurts- I read through most of what's been posted here even referenced back to what Dr. Harley wrote about finding one. As I've said the last experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Overall I'm still at the point where I want to jump back in and push through everything but the resistance from her makes it hard. But the flip side to it is that she's been planning a trip for us for an extended weekend for us to go to a friends wedding. I'm excited but hesitant to go. I'm not sure if we should delve into any relationship talks. We did talk the other week where she expressed that she made a commitment to marriage and doesn't want it to end but something just doesn't feel right to her. She's finding it hard to connect or be intimate in anyway with me.

Oh good, I am relieved that you already know that MC don't know how to save marriages.


I suspect the reason she is not connecting at this point is a) still in some sort of contact with the OM - this can even be driving by his car, gawking at his facebook page or occasional contact. I wonder if he is stringing her along? b) your contact with her has been unpleasant. I would stop relationship talks except for reminding her from time to time that you are not willing to go through another affair and this will lead to divorce if there is not a plan in place to protect you and create a romantic, happy marriage. Be a broken record but after that, just drop the subject. Try and have as much fun as you can with her.

You also need to be thinking about your future without her. That may be the definition of success for you and I want to give you hope. We have many members who moved on and are in fantastic, fulfilling marriages today. While I agree you should do everything in your power to make this work, there comes a time when you may have to accept you are getting no return on your investment and that investment should be better placed elsewhere. Its like a failing restaurant; sometimes it is better to accept that you can't overcome a bad location and your investment would be better spent on a new place in a better location. But if you are spending all your time at the bad location, you can't be working on a winning strategy.

I have been steering away from the relationship talks. I've been a broken record which seems to be some of the anger from her. She'll want to talk and I'll repeat the Plan and it it she gets angry that won't talk about moving forward.
I did pull back this week after it seemed like everything from her was picking a fight. Which made her mad that I wasn't spending time with her or talking with her.

That's fine, just keep it up. Remember, your goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all costs. What makes her ANGRY is that you want to affair proof your marriage.

Forgive me if I am forgetting something, but does she know how you will enact your promise of being home more if she decides to go for it? I see she went cuckoo and was in full on wayward mode the night you got home from work late. It pales in comparison to your pain, but it is going to trigger lonely memories as well as justification mode.

I'm not saying quit your job; until she's on board you need to be planning for a divorce. It's also more important and urgent that she quits her job and I doubt you want to both quit work together.

I just think this aspect of The Plan bears some parroting. Instead of relationship talk, paint a picture of the future; "I can't wait to start hunting for x style job, this means we could do more y activity. Look at these job ads I found! I can't wait to get started on applying when you've quit.'"

Oh, and this may be a highly impractical suggestion, but I'm tossing it in. Would her skillset at all suit running a business alongside you? Its a dream of yours, she uses the word 'alone' a lot, and she needs a different job. The offer, even if she doesn't like it, would express a desire to be with her more and admiration of her professional skills.

indiegirl- I should probably tell her more about me switching jobs or careers. I know I've expressed it before but my work doesn't exactly fit a family life I want. Gone weekends, holidays, late nights etc. I know and work with many others who have a good family life and make it work but I don't see it for us. I had been putting it off till we were ready to have kids and make that change.

To me it feels more like we're roommates. I'll try to engage her in conversation which usually goes no where or is extremely one sided. Put my self in the same room and give it 10 min or so with no interaction from her. I'll make dinner but she's not hungry or ate earlier. She's back in the master bedroom but that's as far as things go.
We made plannes to go the the beach this weekend but I'm not really looking forward to it with how we've been. She's been hitting me with "So much has happened and I just want to take things really slow, be friends and go from there" I find it's a weird statement to make.

When I first came here I thought Dr H's insistence that people spend 15 hours a week together, or they would not be in love, was unrealistic, exaggerated or at the very least included a wide margin of error. I knew people! People who worked away but were devoted to their families!

Yeah, they're either divorced now or it's clear to me that they may have a good, well scheduled family life, but they don't have the best romantic life. Maybe for a couple of years they can remember that feeling but they can't go longer than that. The divorce announcements were very much out of the blue and shocking to everyone but me.


I did the same thing and never got there. It's difficult to make kids without romantic love!


So what is the plan? She should know what it is you are hoping she'll sign up to. She should have some experience of you doing something about it. Since you should be modelling PoJA you should be asking her opinions about different fields and lifestyles.

I also say this as someone who chose divorce as my success story; how much do you want a romantic life with someone else if this fails? Are you going to be ready for that person? The main point of following the plans is to start developing good marital habits within yourself. Sure, the hope is that the WS sees them and wants in on that lasting happiness, but if they don't you have a lifestyle focus someone else will snap up.

For me, that meant changing my career focus and listening to Dr Hs advice that success in everything else follows from success at home.

Little update. We went away this weekend and by all accounts we had a great time together. Or so I thought. She called me as we both drove home from work, all good, got home and she she's was in an odd mood, said she was flip flopping in her mind all day and after some talking on her end she confessed that she contacted OM about and employee transfer.
I told her that this was the reason she needs to leave her job and since she's made contact again she needs to write/email/call anything ending all communication. She gave push back saying it was over, but the thoughts of what she's done are always there daily but it's over with him.
She was adamant that we see a marriage counselor so we can see if we can work it out, or if everything she's feeling is just her unrealistic expectations. She stated she wants someone to convince her to make it work. I was left with feeling like she wants to go so she can say she tried everything. Not because she wants to.
She became really upset when I told her that and that if she wasn't going to cut all contact i would proceed with the divorce and our Dday is fast approaching.
She feels like I keep giving her ultimatums and she needs time to decide but right now she's only in maybe 50% but wants the push to want to repair our marriage.

Cyk, Why don't you pick up the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love and see if you can sell her on it? Tell her that if she can help affair proof your marriage, leave her job and end all contact with the OM, this is what you would want for your marriage. Tell her about falling in love again using the concepts in that book. I agree she wants to go to counseling so she can say she "tried."

Just ordered a copy. I was debating if I should be giving her any books to read. I've been going over what Dr. Harley's written about marriage counseling. If she's set on going to a counselor any suggestions on additional guidelines or things that we should do before going?

I wouldn't go unless a) the purpose is to save your marriage and b) they use the MB plan. Otherwise, you are going to only validate the fogged out feelings of a wayward that the MC won't understand. If the goal is not to effect recovery, then it is to get validation for her to end the marriage or get validation for her foggy ideas, which does not help you. Just imagine if she finds a MC who would validate her ideas that affair proofing is impossible and that you are 'controlling" to ask her to leave her job and end all contact?

Since she is so gung ho about "counseling" would she agree to speak to Dr Harley on his radio show?

She wanted to talk more about whats going on "in her head" she's still flip flopping and back and forth between what to do. She told me it would be nice if I was trying to pursue her more, send flowers like I used to and try and chase after her. The times I spend with her now I just let her talk and listen, something I had gotten away from doing, last night we stayed up until 2. Im wading my way through her fog babble as I know with her making contact with OM again it resets us to zero. She's not sure why she did as she said it's brought up all the feelings again.
I told her that since she's remade contact she needs to ended or we aren't moving forward.
What should my next moves be? Do I chase? Pull back?

Chase her!! women like that.

Yes, do your best Plan A.

Wow, a wayward wife actually asking to be chased!

She is on the brink! Do you think you could get her interested in MB? Pitch it like it's her idea. 'I was thinking about what you said'; talk about the bits that would particularly appeal to her such as marriage before career, lots of fun dates and daily affection etc. Then ask her to speak to Dr H; you could even call the counselling centre ran by the Harleys if she's keen on that, but you might not want to spend money on counselling until she's gone NC.

I've been reading through Fall in Love, Stay in Love and trying to making some adjustments.
We had a very rough extended weekend together. We had a trip planned and our first night out she expressed she didn't feel like we were making any progress everything I've been doing was nice appreciated but she just wasn't feeling any connection. She wanted to go through the rest of the trip as friends and not as husband and wife. On our way home we did get into the relationship talk she expressed that she doesn't know what she wants, she's unsure if she wants to be married still. She told me she didn't feel like anything was getting better because she still isn't felling connected to me and isn't sure what the hang up is. She feels like she's tried everything she could but want ready to give up.
She felt originally the hold up was because of the affair but for her so much time has passed and her feelings are still the same about us and she doesn't feel it's getting better she's not sure what to do.