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It depends what you mean by 'working'; neither Plan A or Plan B repair the marriage because they happen during an active affair. Affairs are toxic and nothing 'works' during an active affair. Because they are in an active affair, you're dealing with an entitled and callous soul like:


Originally Posted by CYk752
she told me to not get so emotional on what's going with us and just let things be.


Is she different, more empathetic and more committed when not in an affair? You would know better than us. If so, upon the (likely) death of the A, she will pay JC. If she's not, she won't.

The plans just basically put deadlines of two years max on your patience and help you to manage the limbo and set up positive possibilities while the affair falls apart. Which the vast, vast majority do. 95 per cent.

When the A does fall apart she may or may not be willing to sign up to recovery. Or leave her job. I would talk to your lawyer about timescales and costs and make a plan for both eventualities.

It will help you decide how much of a chance you're willing to offer her.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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"Working" was the wrong word. We aren't at the stage to begin repairing the relationship. But getting her to end the affair and cut all contact, which she's now showing/telling me she won't do.
I would say she's always been empathetic in the past but who she is now I don't know this person.
I again told her she couldn't be sleeping in the MB with me and it's something she's fighting. We are back to not talking, or rather she doesn't respond to me.

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I should add as it's something that's been driving me nuts and I didn't and still don't fully know how to respond. When it's brought up about her cutting all contact with OM her reply has been it's someone she cares for so why? For what purpose?
Granted my reply has always been for us to even begin repairing us, the relationship and all contact has to be gone.
I feel as though it's like talking to a brick wall. Any better way to phrase it to make her snap out of?

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Originally Posted by CYk752
I should add as it's something that's been driving me nuts and I didn't and still don't fully know how to respond. When it's brought up about her cutting all contact with OM her reply has been it's someone she cares for so why? For what purpose?


Because her affair hurts you so much.

Quote
Granted my reply has always been for us to even begin repairing us, the relationship and all contact has to be gone.
I feel as though it's like talking to a brick wall. Any better way to phrase it to make her snap out of?



You need to make plans to move on. You have been at this for some time and I don't think she has a philosophy of marriage that will support marriage. She is what Harley would call a freeloader.

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accommodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by CYk752
. When it's brought up about her cutting all contact with OM her reply has been it's someone she cares for so why?


I have to wonder how she would react if the answer became: "Because it's going to lose you a marriage". If you said time's up: me or him. A lot of the stuff she's been saying implies she would resent you placing any conditions upon her, she talks like someone who believes in unconditional love, just flit wherever the mood takes you.

A person who has that philosophy permanently can absolutely seem empathetic when in the right mood. It's not empathy you need but the ability to remain constant when times are tough. A buyer, like yourself.

Because you can't be married to someone who follows every mood wherever it takes them.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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The other thing that you need to consider (I don't know if someone has brought this up yet) is that a WS has a lot of RADICAL changes they need to make -- they need to become open and honest and transparent, change their lifestyle and end opposite sex friendships. These are hard changes to make - there are no children to motivate her.

You are still young - I agree that you may want to start thinking hard about how long you want to keep fighting for this marriage.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
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How to Plan B Correctly
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Again thanks for the support. I should have checked here this morning before we talked.
Slhe's frustrated that we haven't discussed things openly yet and feels like I need to move past the affair for us to move forward. I did tell her again how much the affair hurt me and her not cutting contact hurts me. She feels like at some point I stopped recognizing her and she she stopped caring.
She did tell me. 'I'm here. I choose you. Not him, so what does it matter!' She went through her text/messages and call logs to show me when last contact was. And told me even if she blocked him and told him off she could look him up anyway but would he want her if she picked me. So again why is it an issue
I than gave her the ultimatum. 'Actions speak louder than words. You want me and our marriage prove it step up and show me. Otherwise we're done.' Probably not what I should have said, or the best way I could be handling everything but I feel a little better for saying it. I should reread parts of SA again.
She didn't say anything else and left. Great way to start the day.

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Originally Posted by CYk752
. 'Actions speak louder than words. You want me and our marriage prove it step up and show me. Otherwise we're done.' Probably not what I should have said,


No I think you nutshelled it perfectly.

She knows that she has to leave the job, and change her number entirely. She's seen a stellar free trial of what comes after that, which would be when you 'move forward' from your Plan A.

She's throwing a bunch of crumbs and a 'No big deal' attitude.

Sod that.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Good to hear. I made sure to say it in a calm way keep my old snapping in check. I've been holding back for fear of LB but I need to learn the line and I more often choose to not say anything.

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If you feel you're close to lovebusting, then you should probably be considering Plan B at least.

There's only so long that anyone can Plan A for. Some people mistake the Taker for a bad guy but he only appears when your own interests have been neglected too long.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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ive been considering Plan B I'm still not sure how to do it and I'm not sure if I'm really ready to yet. Maybe it's me still having hope? I feel terrible about throwing in the towel but given recent events I'm considering it more and more. I know I went no contact the first month or so and that was hell. I'm not sure I thought there would be some breakthrough or even a crack, it looked positive in the beginning but now who knows.
I wish she'd read the books.

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Originally Posted by CYk752
ive been considering Plan B I'm still not sure how to do it and I'm not sure if I'm really ready to yet. Maybe it's me still having hope? I feel terrible about throwing in the towel but given recent events I'm considering it more and more. I know I went no contact the first month or so and that was hell. I'm not sure I thought there would be some breakthrough or even a crack, it looked positive in the beginning but now who knows.
I wish she'd read the books.

Please remind me, did you write Dr. Harley?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I have not sent it in yet I'm not quite sure how to condense or really how to write to him. I don't want to fill a page or more.

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Originally Posted by CYk752
AI than gave her the ultimatum. 'Actions speak louder than words. You want me and our marriage prove it step up and show me. Otherwise we're done.' Probably not what I should have said, or the best way I could be handling everything but I feel a little better for saying it. I should reread parts of SA again.
She didn't say anything else and left. Great way to start the day..



That is exactly what should have been said. Your marriage is moving to divorce if she won't stop hurting you and end contact with her OM. That is just a fact. If she won't affair proof your marriage, you are looking at your future. I don't think you really want that.

I don't necessarily think you need to be in Plan B, but you need to accept she does not intend on repairing your marriage or doing anything to protect you from a future affair. I think you are wasting your time at this point and should start an exit plan. You are still young and don't have much to lose here.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by CYk752

I wish she'd read the books.



Most people dont need to read a book to understand that adultery is painful and catastrophic. You dont need to be an expert MBer to understand that you should thank your spouse on bended knee for any offered forgiveness and that deleting the guys number would be a no brainer.


The world is full of women who would totally get this without having to read a book!


Originally Posted by CYk752
I feel terrible about throwing in the towel but given recent events I'm considering it more and more. I know I went no contact the first month or so and that was hell.



If you dont want to give up entirely, then Plan B allows her to contact you whenever she wants to get serious about conditions. But honestly, no one would blame you for moving straight to Plan D and being done. Youve eliminated lovebusting and met her needs to the point she wants to be close to you every night. You have offered an amazing marriage to an unremorseful cheater. Thats not throwing in the towel.


The next step (whenever you are ready) is to make it clear with actions that you would rather be divorced than settle for less than an amazing marriage.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Cyk, my suggestion would be to stay in plan A but move forward with separation and divorce. I dont envision she will ever get on board because she has a freeloaders approach to marriage. Because Of that, she will never have a stable marriage with anyone. Going forward with the divorce gives you more time to PLan A and by the time it is finalized you will know if there is any hope or not. If there is, you can drop the divorce and if not, you can divorce and get on with your life. That is a win/win.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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indiegirl & MelodyLane- again thank you both for the support.

I know that I've played a part in getting to this stage with my marriage, neglect and loosing focus on her and what truly matters. I never in a million years ever thought either of us would cheat, she came from a divorced family similar situation oddly enough and she even stated she would never cheat or ever wanted to divorce.
So I'm surprised it happened, shocked and angry. When I first found out I wanted a divorce immediately, she wanted a seperation, which ultimately she got when we fought and I went no contact on her out of rage and anger.
It's true you never know what you'll do when you're in this situation and I surprisingly wanted to save my marriage. I thought things were looking up, as I've told her I don't care about the affair itself or the OM but why it happened what she's was missing, what she wants and needs. I've asked questions to gain knowledge of what to change, and given her ample opportunities to talk about anything. She's never given me an answer till the other day and just the one satement that she feels like forgot how amazing she is killed me.
I'm angry now and not sure how to handle myself at home with her I'm still killing her with kindness but can't bring myself to reach out to although that's all I want to do. I'm shocked that she doesn't see a problem with not cutting off contact with OM or really reaching out at all, I know I can't expect her to be jumping all over me or chasing after m, even though i would love it.
Still she won't leave the bedroom and I guess it's pride on my part that I shouldn't be the one who leaves. She's has been calling me the last couple days and even today on our way home. But at home it's silence.
If it doesn't change I can't stay with someone who doesn't put forth the effort or really show the empathy for the pain. Ten years is a long time Andres a lot of memories.

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Originally Posted by CYk752
.

I know that I've played a part in getting to this stage with my marriage, neglect and loosing focus on her and what truly matters..


If she didn't have poor boundaries with men the affair would never have happened. She just would have told you that the long hours of your job were leading her to consider a separation and you would have cut it out. The end.

If you'd been home every night, she still would have had poor boundaries with men and affairs would still (are still) have been a possibility.

You are 50% responsible for the condition of the marriage, she is 100% for the affair.


Originally Posted by CYk752
, she came from a divorced family similar situation oddly enough and she even stated she would never cheat or ever wanted to divorce.
.


It's actually really common. My ex husband's father was wayward and the affairs were brushed under the rug. He said he hated his father and never wanted to become a cheater. But the little habits and attitudes are set in childhood.

Check this article out:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

I went NC just before our tenth anniversary and I couldn't understand why someone wouldn't fight for ten good years. It was unbelievably painful and no cake walk but you do come out the other side much, much happier.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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What is the timescale of your divorce and do you think you can Plan A?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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By no means am I saying I'm responsible for the affair. That's fully on her. I know my part in our marriage issues and yes I should have changed sooner. I am by no means underplaying or leasing the affair as I still feel it's one of the worst thing to do to someone. There are no excuses for it.
Can I Plan A? Sure but for what purpose? If I feel like this and the feedback I'm getting is its not gonna happen for her, than to what end? I'm a decent person not an [censored] but I don't want to be walked over or taken for granted.
Do I have unconditional love, absolutely. Do I have faults, for sure. I'm trying to be the best that I can but I feel like I'm walking on eggshells with her.
I reached out to my lawyer but am still waiting to hear back on the timeline.
If she showed any real sign that she was still interested in me and the marriage I'd do whatever for her.

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