Did you realize that not only have posters been here for years but that most of us have either spoken or counseled with Dr Harley and/or listened to his radio show?

The advice you are getting from us is the same that you will get from him. When he hears that your H has asked for a divorce, moved out, and is unwilling to work on the marriage, the FIRST THING he will tell you is that you need to rule out an affair, period.


In case it is not clear - whether someone wants to stay and use MB is not a motivation for us to post in a certain way. We post advice in accordance with Dr Harley's teachings and methods. In other words, you can't really shame people into posting different advice to you.

We are not getting paid for this. We are volunteers and we do this in our free time because we are truly trying to help people.

I did investigate. There is no affair. There's a high chance that there soon will be, though. I don't understand why it's such a stumbling block that the affair hasn't actually started yet. Surely this is a better position but I am at a loss for how to halt the process and change our path.

It's the advice we have been giving you.

(1) Stop asking him about the OW. All you are doing when you do that is telling him to be more careful.

(2) Snoop.

Examples:
Put a VAR in his car or an office where he and this OW spend time so that you can listen to their conversation and see what the true nature of their relationship is.

Hire a PI.

Put GPS on his car.

Watch his apartment to see if anyone is coming and going or to see where he is going.

Again all of this is done QUIETLY.

We've already told you that the investigation you did was not adequate.

Perhaps you should go back and re-read our posts.

Norah, the fact that you are asking him if he is having an affair is a clear indication you haven't investigated. If you had investigated, you wouldn't need to ask. And now he has taken the week off at the same time his professed romantic interest is taking a week off, which looks very suspicious. But since he told you nothing is happening, you believe it. Surely you can see how that looks to us?

He may very well not be having an affair, but that can't be determined unless you really investigate. Dr Harley has been at this for decades and here is what he said about the subject:

here

My husband didn't ask to separate so he or we could sort things out. He left because he stopped loving me and couldn't figure out how to start again, and we had no idea how to fix that. We tried counselling before he left but once he decided to leave he refused to consider further work on our relationship. I think Marriage Builders could help, but badgering me about spying on him isn't helping. He has freely admitted that he likes this woman and may get together with her in future. No spying or snooping required: he TOLD me. So what is my best approach to stop him from going to her and attract him to try again with me?

He asked for a separation; that is the point.

Sorry, I don't know what that last post means. Yes he asked to separate after counselling failed to improve things by making him feel love for me again. He never pretended otherwise.

And yes he has someone waiting in the wings. That's also obvious and I have confirmed that with him and discussed it here. They're just not an item quite yet and I'd love to know how to avoid that additional complication.

I've got a full time job, kids, and am very busy...and can't keep wasting my time on people who don't want to snoop. So unless you start to follow the advice so this will probably be my last post.


They are an item. It is clear to all of us here because we've seen this scenario many many many times over the years.

My sister was in a similar situation in 2009 (refused to believe there was an affair but was willing to admit there may be someone in the wings). The good folks here were able to help her investigate appropriately, and she found her WH was in a full blown PA.

When a man has asked for separation, the affair is already entrenched - fully physical. The affair was already physical before he moved out.

I hope you wake up soon. Maybe Dr Harley will be able to convince you. Good luck.

Everything that your WH said is irrelevant and makes no difference in what you should do to SNOOP, as I listed for you a few posts back.

Dr Harley will tell you the same thing - investigation does not include asking the wayward or others about what is going on.

That is the point.

I sure hope you will investigate and get solid evidence of an affair. You need to rule out an affair with solid investigation.

Also, please read Please explain gaslighting, because I think you your H is gaslighting you.

Her husband has already set up the new girlfriend by introducing a false narrative: I am leaving you because I have been unhappy for years. In the meantime, I may have a romantic interest in this woman IN THE FUTURE. It is classic gaslighting of a wayward spouse who is leaving his spouse for another woman. He throws her off by blaming his actions on HER. And he "can't work" on the marriage because he is "too hurt" even though the spouse is willing.

In truth, he is leaving Norah for an affair; so he can freely conduct an affair that has been going on for some time. He blames the problems in the marriage on her to throw her off balance.

This is so frustrating. I already know there's someone else in the picture and we can all call it an affair if that enables us to move on. I already know she's a problem and is receiving the positive attention that used to be mine, filling the needs I should be filling. This is not news to anyone and I really don't understand why it's such a sticking point that I have to say it's an affair in order to get help. It's clear that she is in the picture in a way that has damaged my marriage and that situation is worsening. I need help fixing the problem, not choosing a word to define it.

I feel that we're going around in circles here and it's not achieving anything. You all have good intentions but are trying to fit my situation into a predetermined pigeon hole where he left me for someone else. In truth I pushed him away and now he's finding someone else more enticing in comparison. I am not being gaslighted on this. I know how I behaved and how I treated him out of selfishness and ignorance, because I remember doing it and what my justification was. It isn't pretty but it's the truth.

If there is no affair, you start the MB program. If there is an affair, you implement a completely different strategy. That's why it is so important to get intel.

By letting his parents live in your home, he also drove you away. This is no 100% vs 0% responsibility for the state of your marriage, you both are responsible. The one thing different now and the reason for separation are most likely his feelings for another woman.

Ok, we all know what it is. So let's all agree it is an affair and move forward, shall we? You are pretty certain there is an affair so it shouldn't be hard to get evidence.

And keep in mind we are on your side. We are not the enemy, so put away your guns!

I will add to the last part. If you have sent him a Plan A letter [we had discussed a letter previously] I would wait a short amount of time to see if he responds. If not, you should go into Plan B. If you try to get him back for too long while he's having his affair, you will suffer serious health issues without achieving reconciliation. Dr Harley usually recommends 3 weeks and then going into a dark Plan B.

How would you suggest getting a separated spouse motivated to start the program? That was my original question and I'd still love an answer or at least some suggestions for how to approach it with some chance of success.

He has been away and hasn't responded to the letter yet, but he's due back today so maybe we'll talk tomorrow.