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You had me until not cooperating with wife's plans to separate in house. We are already separated, ie she's sleeping on couch and moved out of our bedroom. Your cooperation with this makes no sense to a rational person. Do you understand what "separation" means? Let's say I am falling down drunk and I declare myself to be Santa Claus. Would you feel it is a virtue to enable my delusion? Because that is what you are doing. I understand your wife is fogged out, but you should not be. A married couple who lives at the same address is not "separated," that is just silly. You don't help the situation by enabling her delusion. Your kids must be so very confused. I've just read the whole exposure 101 thread, though couldn't listen to the radio clips cuz I didn't sign up to pay.
Would you, or anyone else, be willing to read my exposure letter once I draft it? That is a good idea. Hopefully, you keep it short, sweet and to the point. To whom are you exposing? Can you list out all the relationships?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I
Lastly, I will talk to my sons and theirs to explain that my sons are not allowed to be over at the OMs house and their children are not allowed at my house. They may still play together, but outside, at the park, at another friends house, etc. I will explain that this is because their mother and their father will not stop their affair and that when the kids are together in each other's homes their mother and father don't only have an excuse to communicate, but it maintains their relationship. Your kids probably have alot more logic about this situation and will understand completely why they shouldn't play with these kids. Don't drag this out, just cut the cord. If she does end her affair, you aren't going to be able to recover with the constant reminder of the OM's children. Kids usually are smart as hell and have more logic and common sense than parents who are dealing with an affair. Do you have a good friend who has logic and common sense who can support you in these steps?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You had me until not cooperating with wife's plans to separate in house. We are already separated, ie she's sleeping on couch and moved out of our bedroom. Your cooperation with this makes no sense to a rational person. Do you understand what "separation" means? Let's say I am falling down drunk and I declare myself to be Santa Claus. Would you feel it is a virtue to enable my delusion? Because that is what you are doing. I understand your wife is fogged out, but you should not be. A married couple who lives at the same address is not "separated," that is just silly. You don't help the situation by enabling her delusion. Your kids must be so very confused. Ok, but how do I not cooperate? What specific actions do I take? You've mentioned before that I ask her to return to the bedroom. Do I just repeat myself? I've just read the whole exposure 101 thread, though couldn't listen to the radio clips cuz I didn't sign up to pay. Would you, or anyone else, be willing to read my exposure letter once I draft it? [/quote] That is a good idea. Hopefully, you keep it short, sweet and to the point. To whom are you exposing? Can you list out all the relationships? My mother and brother Her mother, father and spouse, sisters, brother Our friends which is roughly 7 - 10 Her teacher friends that she has worked with and continues to spend time with.
Last edited by DrDetroit24; 09/30/19 02:03 PM.
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The REASON a wayward spouse moves into the guest room and pretends to be "separated" is so they can justify carrying on their affair. It is a STUNT. Living in the same house is not "separation." You are a sane, sober person who can see that you are not really "separated" and shouldn't go along with a delusion.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ok, but how do I not cooperate? What specific actions do I take? You've mentioned before that I ask her to return to the bedroom. Do I just repeat myself? You make it clear to her and your children that you are - OBVIOUSLY - not "separated." You are married and live at the same address. Sleeping on the couch is not a "separation." The point here is to not go along with her RUSE. I
That is a good idea. Hopefully, you keep it short, sweet and to the point. To whom are you exposing? Can you list out all the relationships? My mother and brother Her mother, father and spouse, sisters, brother Our friends which is roughly 7 - 10 Her teacher friends that she has worked with and continues to spend time with. [/quote] I would ADD the OM's wife and his family and friends from his facebook page by sending them private messages. The objective is to a) garner support from people who will - hopefully - persuade her to end her affair, b) get support for you and your marriage and c) run off the OM. OM don't like trouble. In his case, he has an enabler wife so you have to reach out to other family members to apply pressure.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The REASON a wayward spouse moves into the guest room and pretends to be "separated" is so they can justify carrying on their affair. It is a STUNT. Living in the same house is not "separation." You are a sane, sober person who can see that you are not really "separated" and shouldn't go along with a delusion. Yes, you're right. We are still married and continue to live in the same house. Is not cooperating with her delusion just mean that I don't believe it or are they specific things that I can do to frustrate the delusion? For example, move her dresser and clothes back to our bedroom?
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The REASON a wayward spouse moves into the guest room and pretends to be "separated" is so they can justify carrying on their affair. It is a STUNT. Living in the same house is not "separation." You are a sane, sober person who can see that you are not really "separated" and shouldn't go along with a delusion. Yes, you're right. We are still married and continue to live in the same house. Is not cooperating with her delusion just mean that I don't believe it or are they specific things that I can do to frustrate the delusion? For example, move her dresser and clothes back to our bedroom? I wouldn't bother to do that. Just let her know that this is NOT a separation. When you speak to your kids about not playing with the OM's kids anymore, I would explain this so they are not so confused. And be SURE AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ALONE WITH THEM. You don't need your fogged out wayward wife along to confuse them even more.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You make it clear to her and your children that you are - OBVIOUSLY - not "separated." You are married and live at the same address. Sleeping on the couch is not a "separation." The point here is to not go along with her RUSE.
I would ADD the OM's wife and his family and friends from his facebook page by sending them private messages. The objective is to a) garner support from people who will - hopefully - persuade her to end her affair, b) get support for you and your marriage and c) run off the OM. OM don't like trouble. In his case, he has an enabler wife so you have to reach out to other family members to apply pressure. OMs wife already know, but will include her. I'll try to locate his family and friends via Facebook.
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I'm also going to retain, formally, an attorney to file for D and try to time exposure and filing.
How should I be interacting with her now?
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I'm also going to retain, formally, an attorney to file for D and try to time exposure and filing.
How should I be interacting with her now? I would expose this week and THEN reach out to an attorney if the affair does not die off. That will give it all time to die down and - hopefully - penetrate her fog.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And even if you have decided not to save this and want to divorce, which is your right, you will want to let the effects of the exposure to die down before filing.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Is this Plan A time or Plan B?
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Is this Plan A time or Plan B? Plan A. Did you read the exposure templates on my Exposure 101 thread?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I'm also going to retain, formally, an attorney to file for D and try to time exposure and filing.
How should I be interacting with her now? I would expose this week and THEN reach out to an attorney if the affair does not die off. That will give it all time to die down and - hopefully - penetrate her fog. I am getting some other advice that exposure should be pursued if there's a real shot at reconciliation. Specifically, a friend has suggested that it takes two willing participants to reconcile and my wife has told me that she wants out, and since she is still communicating with the OM, therefore at this point in time it leaves me nothing to work with. What are your thoughts here?
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Is this Plan A time or Plan B? Plan A. Did you read the exposure templates on my Exposure 101 thread? Yes.
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I'm also going to retain, formally, an attorney to file for D and try to time exposure and filing.
How should I be interacting with her now? I would expose this week and THEN reach out to an attorney if the affair does not die off. That will give it all time to die down and - hopefully - penetrate her fog. I am getting some other advice that exposure should be pursued if there's a real shot at reconciliation. Specifically, a friend has suggested that it takes two willing participants to reconcile and my wife has told me that she wants out, and since she is still communicating with the OM, therefore at this point in time it leaves me nothing to work with. What are your thoughts here? You are kidding, right?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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So, you are out opinion shopping and not taking this seriously. I would first decide if you are even serious so you are not wasting time. But opinion shopping your friends - who have no experience, expertise and certainly no comprehension of a wayward mind is a waste of my time and yours. The advice we give here comes from Dr Bill Harley, a clinical psychologist with 17 books on marriage. He specializes in saving marriages from infidelity.
What is your buddy's background?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I'm also going to retain, formally, an attorney to file for D and try to time exposure and filing.
How should I be interacting with her now? I would expose this week and THEN reach out to an attorney if the affair does not die off. That will give it all time to die down and - hopefully - penetrate her fog. I am getting some other advice that exposure should be pursued if there's a real shot at reconciliation. Specifically, a friend has suggested that it takes two willing participants to reconcile and my wife has told me that she wants out, and since she is still communicating with the OM, therefore at this point in time it leaves me nothing to work with. What are your thoughts here? You are kidding, right? No. And I'm not out opinion shopping. I really do appreciate your advice and feedback. I'm also looking to friends who have had a comparable experience, ie wife who was done or was in an emotional affair. Seems prudent and not unreasonable. I'm really smart when it comes to solving labor relations and human resources management problems and troubleshooting and repairing car problems, but I don't know crap in this space. I shared what a years-long friend suggested to me not to be ridiculed but to understand what might be wrong or otherwise unsound in his reasoning. Again, appreciate your continued advice.
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I am getting some other advice that exposure should be pursued if there's a real shot at reconciliation. I will address this but would really appreciate it if you would stop opinion shopping with people who have no expertise on this subject.It is not fair to me or the other posters to expect us to debate - by proxy - people who don't know what they are talking about. Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair wrote this: "Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery." Dr Harley has counseled thousands of couples using these tactics over the years. Most of here in recovered marriages used these tactics. Specifically, a friend has suggested that it takes two willing participants to reconcile and my wife has told me that she wants out, and since she is still communicating with the OM, therefore at this point in time it leaves me nothing to work with. What your friend doesn't understand is that your wife's state of mind is temporary and is due to her affair. Busting up the affair will change her state of mind. Your wife doesn't know what she wants, she is about as decisive as a falling down drunk. Would you take the ranting of a falling down drunk as gospel? Any person who would take seriously the words of a person in an affair does not understand the mind of a wayward. Your friend does not understand this. " at this point in time it leaves me nothing to work with" = translation, your friend doesn't know HOW to work with that. Anyway, I don't really have the personal time to debate with all your friends but would be happy to help you with this program if you are serious.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am getting some other advice that exposure should be pursued if there's a real shot at reconciliation. I will address this but would really appreciate it if you would stop opinion shopping with people who have no expertise on this subject.It is not fair to me or the other posters to expect us to debate - by proxy - people who don't know what they are talking about. Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair wrote this: "Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery." Dr Harley has counseled thousands of couples using these tactics over the years. Most of here in recovered marriages used these tactics. Specifically, a friend has suggested that it takes two willing participants to reconcile and my wife has told me that she wants out, and since she is still communicating with the OM, therefore at this point in time it leaves me nothing to work with. What your friend doesn't understand is that your wife's state of mind is temporary and is due to her affair. Busting up the affair will change her state of mind. Your wife doesn't know what she wants, she is about as decisive as a falling down drunk. Would you take the ranting of a falling down drunk as gospel? Any person who would take seriously the words of a person in an affair does not understand the mind of a wayward. Your friend does not understand this. " at this point in time it leaves me nothing to work with" = translation, your friend doesn't know HOW to work with that. Anyway, I don't really have the personal time to debate with all your friends but would be happy to help you with this program if you are serious. Thank you. I do appreciate your time and help. I don't know how to evaluate the varying advice and support that I am receiving which is why I wanted to run that by you. I don't think I know my wife's state of mind and sometimes think that shes in the fog, but then believe that she's just done. But what I understand from MB is that she may not even know what she wants and that it is the affair that is clouding her thinking. But damn she appears so dead set on divorce. Anyway, I want to stand up for my marriage and my family. I don't want to go down knowing that I didn't do what I could to improve myself and build a new marriage with the women I intended to spend my life with.
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