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The principle here with your plan A is that feelings follow actions. You aren’t trying to convince her to change her thinking. Let the changed behaviors change both of your thinking.
You feel like throwing in the towel all the time because you exercise a lack of care. Follow through on your plan tomorrow and you’ll find yourself feeling differently. More supported, more willing to protect your family from OM.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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I can imagine that she won't be furious about the exposure and I doubt that she will say anything like she was going to work on the marriage but now is not going to. I imagine that because that is my nature. In other words, it's easy for me to assume the worst outcome. In this case, that being she really is checked out regardless of the affair and really is done and totally closed off. It's hard to back my mind away from that, but I am comfortable in catastrophizing.
I appreciate the advice. The reason I am assuming she will be furious is because I have been here for 18 years and every person is furious. She might be the first one to not be furious, though! In this case, that being she really is checked out regardless of the affair and really is done and totally closed off. All affairees are "checked out" when they have an affair. She was checked out before the affair and she is checked out now. However, she did not want to leave the marraige until the affair came along. The REASON she wants to leave the marriage is due to the affair. As far as we know, she and the OM came up with a plan to leave their spouses after they put on a show of "I tried everything and it didn't work out." After that, the plan is to get together. Dr Harley has been in this business for 45 years and this is what he says: I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.
Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings. This has been my exact observation in the 18 yrs I have been here. So, don't let her gaslight you that she is leaving the marriage because of the problems. She didn't want a divorce before the affair, after all.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody, or anyone else reading...
I'm curious about something. The OM had initiated no contact. My wife may suspect I know, but hasn't told me about it.
When I finally indicate to her that I want to work on the marriage to reconcile but that requires a no contact forever letter from her to the OM, what do I do when she inevitably says that he's already stopped contact? How do I know, if she chooses to write a letter, that it's meaningful? How do ensure that she just isn't reinforcing the OMs wishes and keeping him in a dominant role? You would ask her to write a letter that is approved by you BOTH and sent together. It is a good will gesture to you. My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent. [from SAA, pg 58] OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely, XXXXX
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I would also keep your eyes peeled for continued contact with her OM. What likely happened is the OM's wife probably woke up and told him to stop communicating with your W. So they just went further underground. The fact that she is not devastated about being dumped makes me suspect they are still in contact and they have a PLAN.
Does she act like someone who was just dumped by the man she "loves?" It doesn't sound like it to me.
I can't tell you how many affairees play this game of "the marriage just went bad" and quietly back out of their marriages when there is really an affair in the works. They try to make it look they "tried" by going to "counseling" a few times. Then when they are safely separated and the divorce filed, they start openly seeing the affair partner. They try to make it look like they left the marriage and then hooked up, when it is almost ALWAYS the other way around.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The principle here with your plan A is that feelings follow actions. You aren’t trying to convince her to change her thinking. Let the changed behaviors change both of your thinking.
You feel like throwing in the towel all the time because you exercise a lack of care. Follow through on your plan tomorrow and you’ll find yourself feeling differently. More supported, more willing to protect your family from OM. I want to know more about not exercising care. You referred to extraordinary care in a prior post. I'm missing something here.
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I would also keep your eyes peeled for continued contact with her OM. What likely happened is the OM's wife probably woke up and told him to stop communicating with your W. So they just went further underground. The fact that she is not devastated about being dumped makes me suspect they are still in contact and they have a PLAN.
Does she act like someone who was just dumped by the man she "loves?" It doesn't sound like it to me.
I can't tell you how many affairees play this game of "the marriage just went bad" and quietly back out of their marriages when there is really an affair in the works. They try to make it look they "tried" by going to "counseling" a few times. Then when they are safely separated and the divorce filed, they start openly seeing the affair partner. They try to make it look like they left the marriage and then hooked up, when it is almost ALWAYS the other way around. The OMs wife and I discussed no contact a day or two before the OMW asked the OM to go no contact. He obliged and then set up an appointment for therapy (though OMW didn't characterize it as marriage counseling or other). In my wife's writings, and I think I linked to this last week, she was exasperated that the OMW had only lasted a week without drinking and wrote further that she and the OM should starting planning the rest of their lives. This writing occurred before OM requested no contact. I've been looking at her texts and her email that she was using to communicate with the OM and have seen nothing. While she deleted the email from him requesting no contact, she hasn't deleted her reply. This suggests that there have not been additional emails, but she was on top of deleting them before. The OMs wife was out of town this weekend with their sons for a boy scout camping trip, so there was time for them to contact each other.
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I've been looking at her texts and her email that she was using to communicate with the OM and have seen nothing. While she deleted the email from him requesting no contact, she hasn't deleted her reply. This suggests that there have not been additional emails, but she was on top of deleting them before.
The OMs wife was out of town this weekend with their sons for a boy scout camping trip, so there was time for them to contact each other. Typically they will use a NEW method the spouses don't know about. Some ways would be instagram messages, Facebook PM's, a secret second phone, land lines. There are many ways to go underground. Also, do you have spyware on her phone? If you don't she could just be deleting the texts. Would you know if he is texting her?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Something I have not done in weeks, I sent her a text after lunch telling her that I hoped she was having a good day and asked if any craziness was happening at work.
I know she's read it, but no response.
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I've been looking at her texts and her email that she was using to communicate with the OM and have seen nothing. While she deleted the email from him requesting no contact, she hasn't deleted her reply. This suggests that there have not been additional emails, but she was on top of deleting them before.
The OMs wife was out of town this weekend with their sons for a boy scout camping trip, so there was time for them to contact each other. Typically they will use a NEW method the spouses don't know about. Some ways would be instagram messages, Facebook PM's, a secret second phone, land lines. There are many ways to go underground. Also, do you have spyware on her phone? If you don't she could just be deleting the texts. Would you know if he is texting her? No spyware on her phone. I'm paying attention to FB and Messenger. I've done a thorough search and haven't found a second device. Not sure if the OMW is paying attention to his phone, but she's totally not saavy there and he is. He told my wife that he thinks I've bugged her phone, lol. Instagram could be another avenue and I have checked that in a while. What spyware should I consider? And how easily detected is something like that?
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A good spyware is webwatcher. Can you get your hands on her phone? She could be sending private messages via instagram and facebook and you would be none the wiser.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Something I have not done in weeks, I sent her a text after lunch telling her that I hoped she was having a good day and asked if any craziness was happening at work.
I know she's read it, but no response. She replied: the day was chill foe the most part. I sent you an email. Hope you have time to read it and can respond
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A good spyware is webwatcher. Can you get your hands on her phone? She could be sending private messages via instagram and facebook and you would be none the wiser. Yeah, I can get my hands on it for 10 to 15 minutes.
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Something I have not done in weeks, I sent her a text after lunch telling her that I hoped she was having a good day and asked if any craziness was happening at work.
I know she's read it, but no response. She replied: the day was chill foe the most part. I sent you an email. Hope you have time to read it and can respond Was it the email you posted earlier?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Something I have not done in weeks, I sent her a text after lunch telling her that I hoped she was having a good day and asked if any craziness was happening at work.
I know she's read it, but no response. She replied: the day was chill foe the most part. I sent you an email. Hope you have time to read it and can respond Was it the email you posted earlier? Yeah
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[
I can imagine that she won't be furious about the exposure and I doubt that she will say anything like she was going to work on the marriage but now is not going to. I imagine that because that is my nature. In other words, it's easy for me to assume the worst outcome. In this case, that being she really is checked out regardless of the affair and really is done and totally closed off. It's hard to back my mind away from that, but I am comfortable in catastrophizing.
I appreciate the advice. The reason I am assuming she will be furious is because I have been here for 18 years and every person is furious. She might be the first one to not be furious, though! In this case, that being she really is checked out regardless of the affair and really is done and totally closed off. All affairees are "checked out" when they have an affair. She was checked out before the affair and she is checked out now. However, she did not want to leave the marraige until the affair came along. The REASON she wants to leave the marriage is due to the affair. As far as we know, she and the OM came up with a plan to leave their spouses after they put on a show of "I tried everything and it didn't work out." After that, the plan is to get together. Dr Harley has been in this business for 45 years and this is what he says: I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.
Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings. This has been my exact observation in the 18 yrs I have been here. So, don't let her gaslight you that she is leaving the marriage because of the problems. She didn't want a divorce before the affair, after all. No exposure yesterday. I'm preparing now to start calling family. Very anxious given that there's no contact (that I can detect) and that the OM initiated contact and that some of her family already know about the OM (that there's been a strong friendship and the relationship became inappropriate - and her mom knows about romantic feelings being present). Ugh, and I though this would bebeasier.
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No exposure yesterday. I'm preparing now to start calling family. Great! The exposure should be THOROUGH and quick. Get it all done today. Very anxious given that there's no contact (that I can detect) and that the OM initiated contact and that some of her family already know about the OM (that there's been a strong friendship and the relationship became inappropriate - and her mom knows about romantic feelings being present). Her family only knows what she has told them. That is NOT what we mean by exposure. Wayward spin of the affair IS NOT exposure. The purpose of exposure is to inform them of the TRUTH and ask for their support. Ugh, and I though this would bebeasier. It is not easy, but you will feel FANTASTIC in a few days when it all dies down.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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some of her family already know about the OM (that there's been a strong friendship and the relationship became inappropriate There is not a "friendship." It is an AFFAIR. You need to be completely honest about this. Tell them why it is an affair. She has been spinning it as an friendship.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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So this is the basic script I'm using:
Dear friend,
I am writing to ask for your help. On Fathers Day, wife asked for a separation. To that point in time, we were seeking marriage counseling and we were working on improving our marriage. When our family returned from our summer vacation to MI, I found out that wife is having an affair with a married man named Joe Blow, expressing her "love" for him and describing a desire to be sexually intimate with him. I confronted wife and OM together. Following this discovery and confrontation, wife then asked for a divorce.
Wife has told some of you about an "inappropriate relationship" with OM, however, this was not merely overstepping a boundary to share intimate details of the condition of their marriages. Rather, wife chose to engage in an extramarital affair with a married man that included expressing love for one another and sending sexually explicit messages to one another. This affair has been going on since at least March. And despite my confronting both wife and OM in August, this affair has secretly continued.
I am exposing this affair to you because I want to repair this marriage and keep my family together. I am asking that you use your influence to persuade her to end her affair with this married man and to support our marriage. I love your daughter, sister, friend. I married her and she is my wife and I continue to love her and am making changes to be a more caring, attentive husband and companion. I appreciate your time and consideration of this message and request. DrDetroit
A little different from your recommendation. I want to explicit that divorce came up following the discovery of the affair, ie, the affair discovery triggered the divorce talk.
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some of her family already know about the OM (that there's been a strong friendship and the relationship became inappropriate There is not a "friendship." It is an AFFAIR. You need to be completely honest about this. Tell them why it is an affair. She has been spinning it as an friendship. Thanks for that reminder... Hey, in wifedivorced's thread, you or another person gave him advice regarding how he talked about why he exposed when talking to his wife. He kept saying that he did the exposure because he loved his wife and to save the marriage, but you or another suggested that he stop saying that and say he did exposure for another reason. I can't find that despite looking. When my wife inevitably asks why I exposed, I think I want to say because we can't repair this marriage while you're having an affair.
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