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Oh...and on the ride back from church she thanked everyone for helping and what we are doing.

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They then messenger audio called for 15 mins presumably so she could tell him what was up.

Where did this conversation take place? You need to have a voice activated recorder there. These are cheap at Walmart or Radio Shack. I would get moving on this. Be sure and put one under her car seat and velcro it under her seat.

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It looks bad and Scott is making me go to counseling :rolleyes:.

I am rolling my eyes too because going to counseling will likely spell the end of your marriage. Marriage counselors are destructive to marriages and are little more than divorce counselors. They won't try to save your marriage, that is not their objective. They will try to help YOU accept divorce. MC's don't understand the FOG that comes with affairs and will take her at her word. Marriage counselors have a higher divorce rate than the general population if that gives you any indication and have an 84% FAILURE RATE. They don't have any idea how to save marriages.

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My son (15) in the car on the way back from church said "thank you mom for giving us a chance. I mean the whole family.".

That's great! Bravo to your son!

I am confused about something. Are you going to this funeral with her? Is she going alone? If so, why did she cancel the room? Is the OM going to be there?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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The counseling is faith-based but professional marriage counselors. Not on my insurance but I thought worth it since it's faith based.

And yes...shes planning to go on this funeral trip alone to hang out with her old friends afterwards for a few hours. And yes....the guy will be there.

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The counseling is faith-based but professional marriage counselors. Not on my insurance but I thought worth it since it's faith based.

That's great as long as you understand marriage counseling is destructive to marriages. They have no earthly idea how to save a marriage from an affair. The advice given by Dr Harley, clinical psychologist who specializes in infidelity will be completely different. One of the reasons "counseling" is especially destructive when there is an affair is because it is needless distraction from taking steps to save your marriage. You can't save a marriage from an affair sitting in a counselor's office. A good analogy would be an alcoholic. Alcoholics don't get sober by going to a "counselor." They sober up by taking action steps. They can't take action steps if they are in a counselor's office.

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And yes...shes planning to go on this funeral trip alone to hang out with her old friends afterwards for a few hours. And yes....the guy will be there.

So she plans to hook up with the guy there...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I think she may have planned that. However, I think she has rethought it. Snooping discovered that while he's flying in -- she cancelled her hotel and told her other friend she's leaving right after the reception afterwards.

My thoughts on the counseling -- there is a LOT of anger over the swinging and that is what opened her to talking to the guy. I think the counseling MIGHT help her let go of some of the anger while I'm attacking this from the Marriage Builders plan of action. It will also give her an excuse to keep going -- because she knows we have counseling ahead of us. We did marriage counseling in year 2 of our marriage (faith based) and it actually worked. we went for about 3 months and everything has been fine for years after that.

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PS -- I'm going to have feet on the ground there to find out what happens too. Friends that she doesn't know.

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My thoughts on the counseling -- there is a LOT of anger over the swinging and that is what opened her to talking to the guy. I think the counseling MIGHT help her let go of some of the anger while I'm attacking this from the Marriage Builders plan of action. It will also give her an excuse to keep going -- because she knows we have counseling ahead of us. We did marriage counseling in year 2 of our marriage (faith based) and it actually worked. we went for about 3 months and everything has been fine for years after that.

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
"One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us."

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"As a clinical psychologist who has been in direct therapy with 50,000 individuals and supervised over 600 counselors, I have not found that resolving issues of the past does much to help people deal with issues of the present. In most cases I've witnessed, it makes matters worse because it drags the most unpleasant experiences of the past into the present. I know that my perspective is in conflict with many therapists who are trained to treat the past before they can treat the present, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence that this approach is more effective than letting the past stay in the past. My personal experience is that dredging up the past actually increases the risk of suicide and other dangerous symptoms of mental disorders.

Another important reason that I am opposed to bringing up issues of the past is that it wastes time. When you could be forming an effective plan and putting the plan into motion to resolve an issue of the present, you spend months, and even years focused on the past while the problems of the present keep building up, eventually burying the client."

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"My experience as a Clinical Psychologist has proven to me that dredging up unpleasant experiences of the past merely brings the unhappiness of the past into the present. The problems of the present are difficult enough to solve without spending time and energy trying to resolve issues of the past, which are essentially unresolvable. You can make your future happy, but you can't do a thing about bad experiences of the past, except think and talk about them -- and that makes the bad experiences of the past, bad experiences of the present."

In other words, going to counseling to talk about the bad experiences of the past will make her more angry, not less. As long as you continue bringing it up, she will continue being angry and will have perpetual justification of her affair.

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We did marriage counseling in year 2 of our marriage (faith based) and it actually worked. we went for about 3 months and everything has been fine for years after that.

And yet here you are...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I understand what you are saying. I'm just afraid that if we don't go...she will accelerate and harden her plans to leave. I know that's irrational. It's the message of 'I'm cancelling counseling" that I don't want to send.

I wanted her to go to the Priest with me and for us to talk to him. She doesn't really want to do that. She's horrified at the thought of admitting these last two years to him.

Right now I'm busy trying to get evidence. It's tough. Her passwords are ridiculous and hardened. She just uses her passwords from work so she can remember them -- so it makes it extremely tough to get in. I'm getting that VAR and will have eyes on the ground in two weeks.

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Also -- I'm considering deleting this thread in case it occurs to her to look at this site. She knows I consulted them years ago.

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Does anyone know how I can monitor her phone without having access to it? She literally never puts it down. I'm desperate to expose this so we can begin recovery.

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It's so desperately awful to spend time with her knowing what is going on. I've been eating little. Sleeping little. I wake up wide awake at 3 in the morning and can't get back to sleep.

Last night she did a few little things that were different. She kissed me directly on the lips. She snuggled in and let me pet her head when we were going to bed. I whispered that I loved her so much, and she snuggled closer and reached out and grabbed and held my hand until we fell asleep. Those simple little things allowed me to fall asleep for much of the night. I'm starving for her and the pain is ridiculous. I just needed to type that out.

I know her love bank is closed while this chat affair continues -- but should I keep up my relentless attempts at filling her love bank anyway? I've been busting my hump around the house and we've been working together on cleaning. I had dinner ready for the family when she walked in the door from getting the kids from their summer job yesterday. I know I'm not making any progress on her bank, but I feel like I need to do these things anyway.

Last edited by NeedingHelpLost; 06/15/20 08:00 AM.
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