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#3013292 06/16/20 02:00 AM
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My wife asked me for a divorce this weekend. I don't want a divorce. We've been having difficulties for 6.5 years, and we've been separated for 7 months.

I realize that I've contributed to the situation. I wonder if anyone has any advice on a plan that might give me the best chance of saving the marriage.

My understanding of where I've gone wrong is that I continue to do things that cause her pain, and that I have a problem with blaming her or accusing her. I also have a problem with lying. I know that I can't afford to be unpleasant, yet I continue to do things that anyone would find unpleasant.

Her complaints are that I am sadistic, she thinks I'm not integrated, that I say I want to treat her well but then I treat her badly, that she thinks I'm to blame for the problems in the relationship and she thinks she behaved wonderfully, that she would need to complete forgiveness, complete love, and complete absolution from me.

I'm guilty of many things over the years: independent behavior, not meeting her needs, threatening to leave her over sex, lying, using porn, anger and resentment, and not fixing these problems in a timely manner. The most recent errors I've made that have upset her most strongly are: (1) after moving out, she emailed me to invite me to a dinner with her, and I didn't respond; after 24 hours she called me and asked me about it and I said I hadn't seen the email to avoid answering, when in fact I had seen it; (2) when we got together, at the end she offered me some blueberries (which she knows I like) and I said "no" and when she asked why I said "they're your blueberries" in an unpleasant tone; (3) recently she expressed concern she might lose her job and suggested we minimize spending and I agreed, and then when we got a bill in the mail from a tree trimming company I sent her an email essentially insinuating that she was spending money without getting agreement first, when it turned out this was something we had agreed to months before and I had forgotten (argh, how stupid is that); (4) recently she mentioned that I should expect a large charge on the credit card bill but not to worry as she would be returning most of it, and when I asked for more information and she didn't respond I asked again, and when she responded I kept pushing for information. My understanding is that she says views this as me trying to take it out on her, and me filtering reality through a lens where she is to blame and seeking to find ways that she is in the wrong, when she is actually acting in good faith. She also says that I've had a long time to fix the problems and I haven't fixed them and I'm moving so slowly and she has given me time and she can't wait any longer.

I'm frustrated that I keep making mistakes that get in the way of recovery. I know I can't do this, yet I still do. My interpretation is that I have a problem with lovebusters, particularly blame and dishonesty.

Does anyone have any advice about how to change my thinking and actions to match what I'm trying to achieve? I assume my chances of saving the marriage are slim, but I'm frustrated that I keep going wrong. Ideally, I'd like to find a solution that could enable us to recover, but even if I can't prevent divorce, I'd like to learn these skills and act in a way consistent with my values. Maybe the problem is that I'm not taking things seriously enough, and need to make it a higher priority, and so I'm just reaping the consequences of my actions.. but I'm writing in case anyone has any advice for me or anything to say that you think might help me stay on a better path.

I bought a galvanic skin response meter to practice relaxation before I moved out, but didn't bring it with me. Maybe I need to ask her for access to the house to find it, or to order a new one.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts. I apologize if this is too detailed or not actionable enough.

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My wife recently advised me that she was talking to an old ex-boyfriend (B) of hers on the phone, and that B's wife heard my wife talking to B and accused B of cheating with my wife and threatened to post everywhere about it. My wife says B's wife is delusional and they've had a difficult relationship for some time (which is consistent with what she has mentioned to me years ago, so this is not coming out of the blue). My wife said this past week B sent her a copy of some communications between B and B's wife that are apparently consistent with this. Overall I trust my wife in this respect and don't think she would cheat on me, and I assume that in all likelihood it's nothing, but I have a small part of me that wonders what the situation is.

Question: Would you recommend investigating more, and if so, do you have any advice on how to approach this? Would you recommend contacting B's wife? I have contact information for B but not B's wife, but I think I might have found a phone number for B's wife online. If I contacted B's wife I'm not sure whether that would reach back to my wife.

Question: Would you advise me to ask my wife for a copy of the communications she mentioned so I can understand the situation better? I am not sure this is advisable? Argument in favor: Her answer might provide me useful information. Argument against: My wife might find this annoying and take it as a sign of distrust or an implicit accusation. Some more context is that she told me this past weekend she wants a divorce. While it might be a lost cause at this point, I'm not ready to give up on the marriage, I'm trying to avoid doing things that will be lovebusters or be unpleasant, and raising this subject sounds like it could have that affect.

I apologize if these are obvious questions. I would welcome any thoughts anyone might have.

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Your wife has separated from you and wants a divorce. Another man's wife sees her man is having an affair with your wife.
Maybe 1+1=2

Get the info directly from your wife's ex-boyfriends wife and snoop without informing your wife. Either you find out she's having an affair and wants to divorce you because of it, or you find nothing.

Clue: people don't divorce for no reason.

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Originally Posted by FanPalm
Maybe the problem is that I'm not taking things seriously enough, and need to make it a higher priority
Bingo
Originally Posted by FanPalm
I bought a galvanic skin response meter to practice relaxation before I moved out, but didn't bring it with me.
Exhibit A, m'lud.


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Why is your wife talking to an ex on the phone?
That is not normal behavior for a married woman.
Yes, you should investigate further.
No, you should not talk to your wife about this.

Snoop, but quietly.


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I see you started posting in August -- 10 months ago.
You moved out 7 months ago WITHOUT your meter.

What have you been doing all this time to save your marriage??




Markos' Wife
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Thank you for the independent perspective. Maybe that's what I need to hear. What I've been doing has not been effective.

It's not all that I haven't been doing. I signed up for the online Marriage Builders program and then I haven't been doing it, for 7 or 8 months.

Thank you for your response, and for holding me accountable.

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FP, have you contacted Dr. Harley?

7-8 months... it's time to light a fire under yourself and get moving!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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You have got to aim and fire and have life long follow through.

You can't just do a little marriage stuff here and there till things get quiet.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by FanPalm
My wife asked me for a divorce this weekend. I don't want a divorce.

Why not?

What do you get out of your marriage?

What would you lose if you lost your marriage?

How serious is this?

How motivated do your answers make you? Motivated enough to change you, for life?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by FanPalm
I'm guilty of many things over the years: independent behavior, not meeting her needs, threatening to leave her over sex, lying, using porn, anger and resentment, and not fixing these problems in a timely manner. The most recent errors I've made that have upset her most strongly are: (1) after moving out, she emailed me to invite me to a dinner with her, and I didn't respond; after 24 hours she called me and asked me about it and I said I hadn't seen the email to avoid answering, when in fact I had seen it; (2) when we got together, at the end she offered me some blueberries (which she knows I like) and I said "no" and when she asked why I said "they're your blueberries" in an unpleasant tone; (3) recently she expressed concern she might lose her job and suggested we minimize spending and I agreed, and then when we got a bill in the mail from a tree trimming company I sent her an email essentially insinuating that she was spending money without getting agreement first, when it turned out this was something we had agreed to months before and I had forgotten (argh, how stupid is that); (4) recently she mentioned that I should expect a large charge on the credit card bill but not to worry as she would be returning most of it, and when I asked for more information and she didn't respond I asked again, and when she responded I kept pushing for information. My understanding is that she says views this as me trying to take it out on her, and me filtering reality through a lens where she is to blame and seeking to find ways that she is in the wrong, when she is actually acting in good faith. She also says that I've had a long time to fix the problems and I haven't fixed them and I'm moving so slowly and she has given me time and she can't wait any longer.

I'm frustrated that I keep making mistakes that get in the way of recovery. I know I can't do this, yet I still do. My interpretation is that I have a problem with lovebusters, particularly blame and dishonesty...

...I bought a galvanic skin response meter to practice relaxation before I moved out, but didn't bring it with me. Maybe I need to ask her for access to the house to find it, or to order a new one.
All these things are recent - in other words, since you separated. Is this how you would recommend to someone else that they woo their ill-treated and neglected wife back?

You interpret your love busters as "blame and dishonesty", but from what you've written here, you are a habitual liar, you issue disrespectful judgements at the drop of a hat, you are sneering and sarcastic, you don't appreciate the things she does for you, you use porn, you weaponise sex, and your anger and "resentment" (what the heck do you have to be resentful about?) are out of control. And despite her having already kicked you out, you don't give enough of a rat's behind to use the GSR machine we recommended to you, or to activate the MB course that we told you to sign up for. When you were last here, we told you what to do. Your response of doing nothing shows exactly the amount you care about your wife and your marriage: nothing.

Can you tell us what is in it for your wife? After the litany of failings that you've given here, why would she take you back, especially since she's been managing on her own for 7 months? Do you think her life has been richer, or poorer, for not having lived with you?


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Ouch. And thank you. I appreciate your taking the time to respond in such detail. I guess I needed that kick in the butt. I don't get that feedback from any of my other sources of feedback, so I appreciate getting this perspective. It sounds like I have an inflated sense of myself. Ouch.

I haven't contacted Dr Harley directly. I've finished the preliminary part of the online Marriage Builders program and it's my impression Dr Harley is going to review that part and suggest a path forward.

Why don't I want a divorce? Because of my belief that the Bible commands me to love my wife; because of my commitment to the marriage; because of a little bit of hope or belief that we could have a good marriage again; because of fear of the future.

What do I get out of my marriage? When it was good, I got a lot; safety, sex, love, companionship, acceptance, purpose, safe membership in something larger than myself, self-respect, self-acceptance, a social circle were among the big ones. Things have not been good for years, but on many days I can still find purpose, and there is financial stability.

What would I lose? A lot. It's the loss of hope for those good things, and more. I'd have the recognition that I've sinned against God and my wife. I'd have the regret that I could have had a good marriage, and failed, and the fact that I've hurt my wife. It would mean losing my chance to get this right and make this right.

How serious is it? The most serious thing in my lifetime. It's a defining fact of my life and my most serious failure.

How motivated does this make me? Right now the strongest motivation I can identify is to act according to what God would have me do and to a vision that strikes me as worthy. That's something I've really failed on. I think I'm motivated enough to change for life on that. In principle having a good marriage is a motivation, but it's been of declining effectiveness and is at war in my head with a demotivation -- it's a struggle to believe that I can do anything that will lead to a good marriage. That may be a faulty cognitive bias, maybe to justify avoiding effort or something new, and I need to get over that. I'd like to eliminate causing harm, whether or not it saves my marriage. I don't know what my problem is, I just know that I have one.

Typing this out shows me that I've screwed up and need to re-adjust my view of things. Thank you.

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SugarCane, thank you. No, I absolutely wouldn't recommend it. It's dumb, dumb, dumb is what it is.

I've gone down the wrong path in my life, and I keep doing it.

I can't tell you what is in it for my wife. Probably nothing but more pain. Perhaps a possibility of a really good marriage again, but that would require me to get my act together for it to even be possible. I imagine her life has been better after I moved out than it was before I moved out, and her life will be even better for her if she divorces me. Losing my marriage seems like a natural and just consequence for my treatment of her.

So it sounds like what I take away from your comment is that in addition to treating her badly, I don't own up to my failures, and don't take action on them. I need a lot more humility, and more action. Thank you for helping me see that perspective.

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Originally Posted by FanPalm
Question: Would you recommend investigating more, and if so, do you have any advice on how to approach this? Would you recommend contacting B's wife? I have contact information for B but not B's wife, but I think I might have found a phone number for B's wife online. If I contacted B's wife I'm not sure whether that would reach back to my wife.

Quietly contact B's wife.

Quote
Question: Would you advise me to ask my wife for a copy of the communications she mentioned so I can understand the situation better? I am not sure this is advisable? Argument in favor: Her answer might provide me useful information.

If she is having an affair, she won't provide useful information. It will only tip her off and cause her to go further underground.

I have a feeling she is telling you all this because she is scared B's wife is going to tell you something. This is CLASSIC wayward behavior to pre-empt an exposure. B's wife might have threatened to expose to you and she is setting you up with stories about "B's crazy, jealous wife who imagines he is having an affair." Then when B's wife does get through to you, hopefully you will believe she is just a nut job and won't believe her. See how that works?

It might be nothing and it might be something, but you should not ask your wife about it. You should ask B's wife. And if she feels there is an affair, you should get her evidence. Come back here before you speak to your wife and we will give you next steps.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by FanPalm
My wife recently advised me that she was talking to an old ex-boyfriend (B) of hers on the phone, and that B's wife heard my wife talking to B and accused B of cheating with my wife and threatened to post everywhere about it. My wife says B's wife is delusional and they've had a difficult relationship for some time (which is consistent with what she has mentioned to me years ago, so this is not coming out of the blue).
.

B's wife threatened to expose. That is why your wife is framing the narrative to you. Most women don't appreciate their husbands talking to old girlfriends and not because they are "delusional;" but because it is highly INAPPROPRIATE! Your wife has poor boundaries around men.

And how does it help B's "difficult relationship" with his wife for your wife to be talking to him? crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Are you enrolled in the Online Home Study Course or in the Accountability Program?


Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

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First off, SugarCane, Markos, thank you for showing me who and what I have done and have become. I have been reflecting on what you have said, and I accept it. I am in the wrong. I have failed to exercise care for my wife and my marriage, both through action and inaction. I have done extraordinary damage. I've resisted accepting responsibility.

I am going to change this. The ball is in my court. I'd like to put together an attempt at a plan and share it here, and I would welcome your feedback at that point.

LongWayFromHome, I am in the Accountability Program, but I've gone 8 months without doing a single thing. I spent a bunch of money on it and then did not take advantage of it. I watched Youtube videos instead of watching the Marriage Builder videos, practicing with my biofeedback sensor, or taking advantages of all of the resources in the program.

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What is your plan? What actions are planned for today?

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What about your other thread? Are you snooping? Have you contacted the other man's wife?


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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B's wife may have solid evidence of the affair. That's why it's important to talk to her (without your wife knowing).

Also, you best ally is B's wife.

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