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Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

<snip unrelated>

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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MelodyLane and faithfulWife, you have given me hope. I will respond to you later, my husband just walked through the front door and it’s better if he doesn’t see this.

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**edit**

Please familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders concepts before posting. The purpose of the forum is to help posters with this program. It is not a platform for personal philosophies.

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We seem to have had many new posters sign up or show up to post to this thread, so I will remind them that the purpose of this forum is to help posters with Marriage Builders solutions. Before you post, make sure you are posting along those lines or we will remove your post.

This is not a platform for personal philosophies or experiences that are not expressed in this program.

If you have questions, send me an email, Thank you.


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SadHeghnar, there is a simple truth that I need you to convey to your husband. This comes from Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. He has years of successful experience.

If your husband will follow this plan, his pain will be erased and replaced with a happy, passionate marriage. We can teach you both how to do this. When one is happy in the present, the mind does not wander to the tragedies of the past. Many of us here are in fully recovered, passionate, happy marriages. I have not thought about my H's affair in many, many years. And when I do think of it, it doesn't hurt me anymore because I am happy in the present.

That being said, most marriages NEVER recover from adultery because they have no plan. Having no plan is a plan to FAIL, it never works.

With no plan, they limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage and either end up divorced or completely alienated for the rest of their lives. When there is no plan, the resentment of the betrayed spouse grows and thrives year after year. I am sure your husband thinks this is his future.

You and your husband do not have to be like that. He probably has no idea that he do much, much more than just get over this. He can have a better marriage than he had before.

This is what I want you to tell him in a letter. I want to you to invite him here.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by FaithfulWifeCJ

So I'm curious. How long was the work trip? Was it one or two days? Or was it like a week away from the family? Were spouses invited? My husband often comes with me on work trips and while I work...he vacations. Did your hubby come along? Why or why not? If you don't usually drink to intoxication at home or while at work (you said you usually drink a glass of wine), why did you drink so much this time? Was anyone else there? Was it like a conference or company training kind of trip...or a sales kind of trip? If you were with a bunch of people/colleagues, how did you end up alone or paired up with your other man? Why did you allow him in your hotel room? Even if you don't recall consenting, did you flirt with him all night? Did you focus on him all night? Did your actions indicate interest all night? How did you get naked?

it was work 3 days work convention. spouses are invited and encouraged to attend. We were supposed to extend our stay for 2 extra days but unfortunately my husband had work commitment and didn't make the trip. we were a group of 12 people including myself and the single man. We never flirted nor gave any indication of interest.
how did I end up with him? We were in the room of one of the couple that were with us and I passed out, I remember that when I woke up they were all laughing at me, I wanted to go to my room that happen to be in a different floor. the other man offered to walk me to my room. he was trashed too and asked if he could stay for little bit till he sober up. We did go inside and remembered him using the bathroom, next thing I remember he was naked next to me whilst I was half naked.

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So he just up and disappeared, huh? From you, his children, and his own family and friends? That seems odd. I mean, let me ask this: did he get along with his own family before this happened, or was he always distant from them? Most of the time, blood is thicker than water and family members "don't want to get involved." Or they stick with the one that is their kid, even if the kid is the one committing adultery. Did his family stick up for him? Did he have anyone to lean on or support him through this devastating time? Who helped him? Do you even know who he turned to? Learning that the love of your life, the partner with whom you wanted to build a life and a family, has betrayed you and committed adultery is about the most painful thing in the world that can occur. Accepting it is HORRIFIC. Who did he turn to? Did he have church family to support and encourage him maybe? Who was on his side?

He didn't just disappear, there were some unfortunate events that happened before he left. My husband family members are great people but he blamed them for siding with me. he is a great guy but can show very aggressive temper when mad we've always avoid upsetting him too much. I'm not sure what kind of support he's had if any.

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So he's back home? Good! Being together would be an easier way of demonstrating to him with your actions that you are willing to recover. He said he's back for the kids only and he doesn't want your help. So are you respecting this or are you trying to "straighten him out" and give you what YOU want and telling him how wrong he is? If so, that's another love buster: Disrespectful Judgement. You may have been with him longer than any other person on the planet, and you may have known him more intimately (emotionally) than another other, but it sounds to me like he is asking to be heard about HIS sadness and pain, but what I read in your paragraph is quite a bit about you...how broken you are, how much pain you're in, how much guilt you feel, how much you miss him.

Thanks for this question, He made it clear that he came back to be with his daughters, and doesn't want anything from me at all. I'm trying to respect his desire but to be honest with you it is all part of a plan. I know my husband to be a proud man and I damaged his pride. I believe if he was the only one to know what happened to me in Las Vegas he would have protected me. I was an idiot for not telling him first. My hope that one day his anger would dissipate and get to forgive me.
Only God knows my feelings, I'm in agony but forced to shove it up and concentrate on saving my family. I lost everything I have I was humiliated and my family's respect was replaced by just pity. I miss the life I had. I miss my husband. so I have nothing else to lose. my life right now is terrible but I can't stay collapsed and give up, it is a fight I will be ready for it.
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If you have any questions, I would be happy to talk with you more about things I did to recover.

Thank you. the only question I have is how I can get my husband to forgive me.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
SadHeghnar, there is a simple truth that I need you to convey to your husband. This comes from Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. He has years of successful experience.

If your husband will follow this plan, his pain will be erased and replaced with a happy, passionate marriage. We can teach you both how to do this. When one is happy in the present, the mind does not wander to the tragedies of the past. Many of us here are in fully recovered, passionate, happy marriages. I have not thought about my H's affair in many, many years. And when I do think of it, it doesn't hurt me anymore because I am happy in the present.

That being said, most marriages NEVER recover from adultery because they have no plan. Having no plan is a plan to FAIL, it never works.

With no plan, they limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage and either end up divorced or completely alienated for the rest of their lives. When there is no plan, the resentment of the betrayed spouse grows and thrives year after year. I am sure your husband thinks this is his future.

You and your husband do not have to be like that. He probably has no idea that he do much, much more than just get over this. He can have a better marriage than he had before.

This is what I want you to tell him in a letter. I want to you to invite him here.

Thank you MelodyLane, if I only convince him to come here. I know the plan works because a lady from my church had a successful recovery after she discovered her husband infidelity. their story was way worse. I will find a way to either talk to him or email him what you had suggested.

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Originally Posted by SadHeghnar
[
Thank you MelodyLane, if I only convince him to come here. I know the plan works because a lady from my church had a successful recovery after she discovered her husband infidelity. their story was way worse. I will find a way to either talk to him or email him what you had suggested.


That sounds good. Please spend some time on the letter and post it here so we can give you some feedback. I am really concerned about some of the answers I think you have given him and I want to flesh those out with you. I want to also make sure that the letter gives him hope. Like I said, most people do not recover from infidelity. You and your husband don't have to be in that category. This whole program, which is free, will help you with a plan. You can also send questions to Dr Harley on his radio show [free] and he will send you a free book.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by SadHeghnar
[
Thank you. the only question I have is how I can get my husband to forgive me.


Just so you know, Dr Harley does not believe in forgiveness when there has been an affair. He believes in Just Compensation. He explains it very well in this article:

CAN'T WE JUST FORGIVE AND FORGET?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by SadHeghnar
[quote=FaithfulWifeCJ]
the only question I have is how I can get my husband to forgive me.


Please understand, you cannot "get" someone to forgive you. It is quite like God. God extends His forgiveness to us because He loves us, and because He wants the best possible life for us. We do not "get" it, "earn" it, it's like the southern-gospel song "There's No Other Word for Grace, but Amazing....."says, that His grace is "unmerited favor".

Forgiveness comes as a gift from humans, when they recognize that their offender "gets it", that he/she understands and knows the depth of anguish they caused by their selfish and sinful actions. "what happened to me" is diametrically opposite to a request for forgiveness. When something "happens to" us, we accept no responsibility for it, there is nothing to forgive, and impossible for another to extend forgiveness. Dr. Harley's advice of complete revelation sets the basis for forgiveness to follow.

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If you were drunk, you were unable to give consent. That means you were raped/sexually assaulted.

Have you thought about calling the Vegas police and at least filing a report? Would this help convince your husband that it wasn’t a planned affair with a coworker?

I’m not a lawyer, but I believe the statute of limitations for sexual assault in Nevada is 4 years.

Good luck.


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If you notify the Las Vegas police, they MIGHT be able to find video from the 3 places you were drinking. You might discover that he was intentionally feeding you drinks with the intention of getting you drunk so he could take advantage of you later that night.

Not only would this help convince your husband that this was not an intentional or ongoing affair, but you might help prevent a sexual predator from doing this to other women.

Did you notify HR about the incident? Did you quit or were you let go? If let go, was it because of this incident?

Good luck

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Just a quick driveby ---

SadHeghnar,

I've recovered my marriage after my wife's affair several decades ago. It is possible and has happened many times, especially when people utilize Dr. Harley and marriagebuilders. It is not just one of several options...it is the only option for marital recovery after infidelity.

That said...what really concerns is to see your husband has posted on a website called Talk About Marriage. I really hate to expose a betrayed husband because you are not gonna like that he's been checking up on you (but you need to know he's supposed to do this --- and you should welcome the scrutiny). Please don't be mad at him. He's hurting and confused and really needs to be here, not there. Here is a link to his thread.

Your Husband's Thread at TAM


I do this because it's absolutely a horrible place for any betrayed husband to be. There is no plan and no marriage ever gets saved there. Also, not only is that website a hole of despair and consideration, they will also certainly end up discouraging your husband and tell him it's hopeless. There are also a varied collection of clueless unrepentant wayward wives (and wayward men even like the liar MattMatt) and divorced betrayed wives that encourage divorce every chance they and get and even pursue recently betrayed husbands like they are hurting sad puppies. For example, there is a poster there named Affaircare (she also posts here as FaithfulWifeCJ) that is somehow a Nouthetic (which portends to be a Chistian, if you can believe it) marriage counselor who actually targets betrayed husbands for personal communications and supposed private phone counseling and then tries to have extramarital affairs with them. She did it twice here on Marriage Builders with CJsGuy and Talornpete and then again (about 6 months or so after her then husband, TalornPete
died - yeah she married him) she had another online affair on TalkAboutMarriage forum with a poster named Emerging Buhdist (EB) that she had intensely coached through his divorce and then commenced a relationship with him before his divorce was even final. They may still be together today; but, I hope not. He was unware of her trolling history so hopefully my exposure of him ran him off. Amazingly, the TalkAboutMarriage.com forum, after being made aware of such behavior (pursuing married men on the forum by a supposed licensed marriage counselor), the lying wayward moderator MattMatt used the my exposure as an excuse to ban me and deleted the posts to protect her because she's an avid poster and it's all about forum traffic, not actual content.

She even had online affairs on TaylornPete after she married him and he came to MarriageBuilders and posted seeking help (can you imagine instigating an online affair with a betrayed husband on a marriage forum, marrying him and then cheating on him thereafter numerous times???) - This is a disturbed woman who may SOUND like she's knowledgeable but she's simply a Jezebel.

Here is his thread on MB - LINK TO "The Old Fool" thread by TaylornPete

And here a link to another betrayed guy that Faithfulwife CJ picked up on at MB - CJsGuy in 2005

Oh yeah. Another bonus exposure. If a poster named "personofinterest" is still posting there and posting to your husband (I haven't read his entire thread), she's a bipolar former wayard that cheated on her husband using ashley madision dot com, where she had sex with numerous men and ended up divorcing her betrayed husband and marrying one she met on as ashley madison hookup. She posted all about it on loveshack.org years ago. She used to post here as HerFuturesSoBright or something like that (and several other names). Perhaps I should start another thread to discuss all this, but I made the moderators at TAM aware of her (and that she'd already been banned there, here and several other forums under multiple aliases but, again, they just don't care about content, just traffic. These are the kind of nefarious people that post and PRIVATE MESSAGE AT WILL there and they have the audacity to complain about the Christian help you're getting here - have mercy!

So...please encourage your husband to leave that God awful place and come to Marriage Builders. I hope I don't get in trouble for posting this. I love marriage builders. You people are awesome.



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Apparently the lying wayward moderators have moved your husband's thread to a private area now which is even more dangerous for your husband and NOT a place a recently betrayed husband should be hanging out. They share and exchange personal information and private messages on that forum (I believe there is no private messaging allowed on this forum -- smart move).

I have screenshots of all his posts on TAM and I'll share them here if you want and the mods let me or I can put them up on a bulletin board forum somewhere and post a link. It's truly awful the behavior over there. I suppose it's better that you don't read them today but if you ever need them, just let me know. I'll be watching. Of course, if your husband is smart and leaves TAM, stops sharing information with wayward, and comes here, I'll only share his posts on TAM with his permission. He is the betrayed spouse after all. This isn't blackmail -- I truly have your marriage's best interest at heart. I have been a betrayed husband and read/posted on forums for years --- recently betrayed husbands are vulnerable and need positive hopeful feedback, not garbage advice from wayward and flirty inappropriate women on a forum moderated by unremorseful wayward persons.

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please stop, Quality. contact admin with any issues.


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***EDIT***

STOP

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To all: No more discussing other posters.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane


Just so you know, Dr Harley does not believe in forgiveness when there has been an affair. He believes in Just Compensation. He explains it very well in this article:



I think there's a wording error in your first sentence. This is a quote, the words of Dr. Harley to his counselee "JJ", from the article you referenced.......:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley

Forgiveness is something I believe in with all my heart. I forgive others and have been forgiven many times. God wants us all to be forgiving just as he has forgiven us.


The principle of Just Compensation is also biblical.


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Originally Posted by tfkjiel
Originally Posted by MelodyLane


Just so you know, Dr Harley does not believe in forgiveness when there has been an affair. He believes in Just Compensation. He explains it very well in this article:



I think there's a wording error in your first sentence. This is a quote, the words of Dr. Harley to his counselee "JJ", from the article you referenced.......:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley

Forgiveness is something I believe in with all my heart. I forgive others and have been forgiven many times. God wants us all to be forgiving just as he has forgiven us.


The principle of Just Compensation is also biblical.



You didn't read the article:
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated.

In most cases, an offended spouse would be unwise to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money."
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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You have isolated a quote there and taken it out of context. If you want the poster to understand Dr Harley's views on forgiveness after an affair, you need to look at the whole article and try not to misrepresent it.

SadHegnar, I hope you've read the article by now. It argues that two things.

First: that while many of us (including Dr Harley) believe in, and practice forgiveness in life's situations, forgiveness after an affair is unfair:

"I approach the subject of forgiveness from the perspective of someone (me) who believes in forgiveness, but also believes that marriage should be fair. Since, in many cases, forgiveness is unfair, what should be done?" and "As you will see in my responses to the three letters I've chosen, I support just compensation for some marital offenses, so I don't always recommend forgiveness".

Dr Harley is describing the feelings of the betrayed spouse here. Many (perhaps most) feel unable to forgive, because, as Dr Harley describes, forgiveness is like writing off a debt and saying that we will deal with offender as if the offence never took place:

"First let's try to understand what forgiveness is. One illustration is telling a person who owes you $10,000 that he won't have to pay you back. You "forgive" the debt. In other words, forgiveness is eliminating a obligation of some sort.

But we generally don't think of money when we think of the need of forgiveness. Instead, we are concerned about inconsiderate behavior that has caused us great pain and suffering — the pain that an affair causes, for example. Forgiveness in these situations means thinking about the person as if the offense never took place. That is extremely difficult to do. The offended spouse usually thinks, what can he or she do to make it up to me. How can I be compensated for the pain I've suffered."

Dr Harley then argues is that the unfaithful spouse who is asking for forgiveness is usually asking for the affair to be forgotten, and does not offer "compensation" for the suffering they caused.

This concept of forgiveness - held by both the unfaithful and faithful spouses - is unrealistic, because the faithful spouse usually cannot simply "forgive" the debt and treat the unfaithful spouse as if there is no debt to be made good. The unfaithful spouse would like this to be the case: "I did it. You found out about it. I want this to go away and for you to stop hurting, as your obvious hurt makes me feel bad." The offended spouse thinks "what can he or she do to make it up to me. How can I be compensated for the pain I've suffered?"

The problem is that they cannot move forward holding those positions. Yes, the marriage COULD move forward if the BS could "forgive", but we see that they can't. What then?

This is the second thing that Dr Harley addresses in that article. In order to move forward and begin the process of recovery, it isn't necessary for the BS to forgive. If the couple waited for that to happen, recovery might never take place. The idea of the BS "forgiving" the WS is an obstacle to the start of recovery. If they wait for the BS to somehow feel that they can forgive - without a change in the marriage FIRST - the marriage will be stuck and may well dissolve.

This is where Dr Harley offers both spouses a course of action that begins the recovery process. If they put the question of forgiveness to the side and concentrate on the issue of compensation, the relationship can be restored:

"I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated."

All the words in those sentences are absolutely crucial to recovery. Dr Harley is NOT in favour of forgiveness after an affair, because compensation is needed. If we are compensating for the debt that we caused, we are not asking for it to be forgiven - and we should not ask for it to be forgiven. Compensation is needed because it overcomes resentment and it restores the relationship. If, after an affair, compensation is not enacted, resentment and restoration might never happen.

"In most cases, an offended spouse would be unwise to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money."

To apply that to an affair, it would be unwise to forgive the affair without compensation. It is actually in the unfaithful spouse's best interest to pay the faithful spouse compensation, because it would teach the unfaithful spouse to be more responsible with the marriage.

SadHegnar, your focus seems to have been on your wish to be forgiven. Your husband has been, quite understandably, unable to forgive you. However, his having been out of the home for many months has not allowed you to compensate him, and neither has his having come home and made it clear that he wants nothing to do with you:

Originally Posted by SadHeghnar
IHe ended up leaving and shutting down all his family and friends including his kids and mom. no calls or texts for almost 6 months, he was still paying the bills and that's how we knew he was still alive, 2020 has been a disastrous year for all of us. I had multiple panic attacks and developed many heath issues that I never had, but the worst part was being in a limbo of not knowing what to do.
fast forward to now. My husband is finally back home but he doesn't want anything from me. he said he is back for his kids only.

SadHegnar, you need to write to your husband, as MelodyLane told you, not asking for forgiveness but offering the compensation that Dr Harley describes.

"As it turns out, in every affair there is a way to adequately compensate the offended spouse that is good for the offender and good for the marriage. At first, the offended spouse may not want to be compensated. He or she may try to get as far away from the offender as possible to avoid further pain. But if the spouse asks for forgiveness along with a willingness to compensate, the offended spouse is usually willing to entertain the proposal."


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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