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Originally Posted by repeat offended
Should i start by allowing her to come home?

The fact that she has moved out really helps in your settlement. It also helps you get primary custody.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I'm following your advice to get the divorce paperwork in order. My current plan is to go to plan B when we file if nothing changes, which is less than two weeks out.

In the mean time, what should i do? We seem to be reconnecting but not committing. Carry on?

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Originally Posted by repeat offended
I'm following your advice to get the divorce paperwork in order. My current plan is to go to plan B when we file if nothing changes, which is less than two weeks out.

In the mean time, what should i do? We seem to be reconnecting but not committing. Carry on?

I would not go into Plan B for some time. The objective of Plan B is to protect yourself from a destructive affair. Men can usually last longer and I don't think you are close to that point.

I would focus on getting the best possible legal settlement you can while she is fogged out. Don't negotiate directly, just have your lawyer offer her a deal that is GREAT for you and your kids and GOOD for her. Get her to agree to settle now so you are legally protected.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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So today's plan A took a turn. Maybe exposure wasn't a failure after all. When i approached the topic of reconciliation yesterday, she said she was thinking about it. Today she asked what that looked like to me. I explained that ending all contact with the OM was the first step as well as proving to me it was done(according to the letter examples on MB) and from there, there were some great recovery processes on MB. She is considering it but she remembers the questionnaires and hates having to disclose everything from her childhood. I guess she doesn't remember she already did that, or maybe she was never honest the first time.

How do i approach this now without enabling a partial program and without making her feel like it's my way or the highway? Can't see how we can follow the policy of joint agreement if she doesn't agree.

*No, we haven't stopped our divorce process. I know we're not anywhere yet*

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Will she send a NC letter to OM?

Will she give up all avenues she used to carry on her affair? No more games, no more internet, no more smart phone?

Can you be together 24/7?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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The NC letter and barring all means and methods of contact was presented as the first step. The second step presented was policy of joint agreement. This step was coaching with Dr Steven Harley and marriage builders. MB was the only objection because of the personal disclosure worksheets.

This was our first real negotiation conversation. I would love to fast forward to the end where all necessary precautions, up to and including being together 24 hr a day, were in place and agreed to enthusiastically but there's no way that's happening today. It might take 6 months, who knows? I'm taking this one day at a time and want to make sure there are no missteps on my part in getting to the only chance we have of a fulfilling and lasting marriage.

I know if we don't cross the finish line together, it's just divorce. We just hit the starting line. How should i get out of the blocks? For people that don't believe in MB, how should i negotiate from "what's this look like" to "maybe it's worth trying"? I expect if i get her to accept talking to dr harley, we can start coaching to a place that gives us a clear path, together or apart.

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RO, the POJA does not apply to affairs or abuse, because the steps after an affair are necessary to recover the marriage. For example, you wouldn't "negotiate" the subject of drunk driving with a drunk driver, would you? Do you have the book, Surviving an Affair? The extraordinary precautions are outlined in this checklist.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.





"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks. I understand the EP are not negotiable. The affair has to end and protections have to be made for recovery to be possible.

I have surviving an affair, I've read it. I know where we have to end up.

The issue is getting her on board. What are the tactics to work with WS to help her understand this is in her/our best interest? It seems like "stand my ground" is the wrong approach, even though that is truly the place we have to end up to start anything other than divorce.

In my present state of mind, i second guess every conversation, every thought. Thank you for your help.

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Nevermind that last post. She's definitely still chasing the OM, just made arrangements to come by tonight to pick out her half of the stuff in the house. I'm having a hard time keeping on plan A today...

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Originally Posted by repeat offended
Nevermind that last post. She's definitely still chasing the OM, just made arrangements to come by tonight to pick out her half of the stuff in the house. I'm having a hard time keeping on plan A today...
How did you find this out?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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She told me in text

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She told you what?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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That she's firm on divorce. She said it makes her feel selfish and self centered but it's what's best for her.

She said the affair has nothing to do with the divorce(yeah, right) and it's everything else but there's nothing to talk about because divorce is the answer for multiple reasons that she doesn't want to discuss. She also lashed out when i asked what was the issue that couldn't be overcome in time, that left divorce the only answer.

This is all happening after bringing up MB last night and talking about the first step being to cut off all contact with the OM, which she is not willing to do apparently.

I apologized for asking a question that hurt her. Up to this point I've asked nothing of her except twice asked about considering an alternative to divorce.

The flip from yesterday to today must mean the OM told her what she wanted to hear last night. What she's saying doesn't add up with reality so i don't know, but i know.

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Oh, she also said that she thinks we can still be good friends and hang out after all this is over and could i come over tonight after she picks out her stuff and help her cover some windows with sun repellant.

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So tonight, the WS came by to divide up possessions and discuss final arrangements for D filing. She confirmed she has big plans for herself and the OM.

Do I continue plan A through D filing or switch to plan B before? Right now, we have an uncontested divorce that is great for me, good for her and good for my kids(joint custody but teenagers that know what moms up to and won't speak to her).

I would love to plan B without filing but i don't think that protects my girls or myself.


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Hey repeat offended, sorry to see you here, but you are in the right place to get help and the veteran posters here are ridiculously experienced and laser-focused on using MB principles to save marriages.

I have had somewhat similar experiences as you in my own marriage. I have also worked with Steve for a long time. I would follow the path Steve laid out for you, assuming he did, as I recall you saying you were coaching with him. By the way, all of what you wrote above that she said is fog babble, as I'm sure you realize. The affair is the center and reason for all of her actions right now and the reason for her wanting a divorce. It is textbook.

On whether to continue your plan A, my own thinking would be to plan A until the divorce is final at least. Then you reassess and if you have remaining emotional ballast and want to potentially reconcile, you could try to go longer. Or not.

What I learned from Steve is that the whole thing with plan A is to present to your wife a glimpse of an alternate future where you meet her needs (and consequently she yours). Be consistent in presenting to her there is a way to save the marriage and have a marriage where you are both madly in love with each other. Let's explore that together. Of course part of that idea working in the future will be EPs, just compensation, POJA, etc. but that is too much to throw at her now. She won't bite. I would guess the challenge now is getting her to explore MB with you. Given the ongoing A, I doubt she is hearing you right now at all, but there may come a time in the future when she will reassess and reconsider things.

On your divorce agreement, do you think you could get full custody with your kids' support? The way you describe it, it seems they want nothing to do with her right now. She is fogged out and focused on the fantasy life with the OM post divorce. You will never get the deal you can get now again. This is the time to protect yourself and your finances and your children. It will also set you up to be in a stronger position if she does return to be able to be firm on what it would take to reconcile, e.g. EPs, POJA, no-contact letter, total transparency, etc. Then either way you win.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

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Blackhawk, thanks for taking the time.

Steve didn't give me a path- he suggested i try A, B or divorce.

Full custody would be supported by my girls but maybe not by the courts and that's a long, drawn out divorce which could hurt them more than just getting just being that part over with. So far, I've heard there's not really a chance at recovery for her so I've not really considered that legal route.

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RO, I would move forward with your plan. Get a great settlement for you and your kids and stay in Plan A for now. The objective for now is to protect you and your daughters legally. Does she still have access to bank accounts and lines of credit? If so, I would address that so she doesn't wipe you out.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks MelodyLane. No, she has no access to financials and we've agreed to division of assets, other than furnishings, which we'll finish today, i think. Plan A for now.

Should i start planning for a plan B now? Seems like D filing would be the right time to let reality set in that she has to lie in the bed she made (pun intended) but does that depend on her reaction to plan A between now and then?

I'm just guessing based on her entrenchment in this affair, it's not going anywhere and I've read the structure and execution of plan B is imperative.

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In my readings of Dr. Harley and listening to the shows, he is consistent in advising to plan A as long as you can if you are a man, with a loose maximum limit of about 18-24 months, depending upon the situation and emotional make-up of the man. For women it is much shorter - about 3 weeks max - due to greater emotional damage and later health damage manifesting much sooner for women.

In plan A as a man, you are competing with the other man to demonstrate to your wife you are the better choice. Once you can no longer handle the emotional damage of keeping up the plan A in the face of the affair, you go to plan B. This is to maintain your own emotional health, but also to maintain some love for your spouse. If you plan A too long, you risk sabotaging your efforts with love-busters and undoing all of your previous hard work as it will get harder and harder to demonstrate care and civility to someone hurting you. love-busting you, and discounting your feelings constantly. You want to go to plan B as a man before that point.

Plan B is not done though to punish your wife and show her how wrong she is. It is done to protect you emotionally. Plan B may or not be appropriate for you after the divorce.

MelodyLane gave you great advice above. She is the one to listen to. Protect yourself and your daughters with a great settlement. Keep plan A for now. Reassess on the other side of the divorce.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

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