Quick backstory. I retired from the military middle of 2019 and am 48 yrs old. It was a medical retirement. I didn't want my career to end. I served over 21 years. I was rated 100% disabled by the VA. Between the retirement check and the disability, I make almost the same as when I worked. Most of the disability centers around PTSD (combat related) and Major Depressive Disorder (many things contributing). Less than a year before my retirement, my son joined the military and was stationed overseas. So in the span of a year, I lost two very important identities. I had one left - her husband.

Here is where most of you will cringe. We have always had an open marriage. At first when we both had high libidos it was for fun. Then her libido died. Being in the military and stationed on small bases, even with her permission to get my needs met I couldn't. Too much risk. Close to 10 years into her low libido (we had sex roughly once a month, but still did intimate things) we ended up in a major US city for my last assignment. She pushed again for me to get a FWB to meet my needs and I did find one. So that lasted a few months and we (myself and the FWB) got too close and we admitted feelings for each other. So since she was in a bad marriage and I was in a good one, we agreed to keep our distance. We eventually downgraded to really good friends, and she moved about a five hour drive away. So right after that is when my son went off, and then my medical retirement.

I started to decline hard mentally. I entered a really bad depression and then something new happened - I started to lose my libido. I had depressive episodes before, but I never lost my libido. Well my wife saw how the pending retirement was affecting me and she worked really hard with doctors and got a physical trainer and she lost the weight and improved her health. Her libido came back - just as mine had died. My mood was so low and flat, I knew I was miserable and I didn't want her to be miserable. So fair being fair - get a FWB, have fun. I need her happy so I can ever have a chance to come out of this. If she was miserable with me...well, misery loves company.

She did. This first one ended in a disaster. I came out of my depression to be there for her, assure her it wasn't her fault, support her. As she tried again, I slipped back. This time she met a guy and it worked out...too well.

Months into it, she was begging me to get out of this depression and get my libido back. So I finally relented. I went to a Men's Clinic and my testosterone levels were bottomed out. She convinced me cost was no object and to try at least six shots. Well, it began working in four. I felt better and my libido was back.

When we tried to have sex, I made the mistake of asking her everything she was doing with this guy. She accommodated. It sent me into a new downward spiral. I couldn't handle it (before, I could...I liked it even). It started a fight in March and that's what has gone on ever since.

I didn't understand why she was so upset at me. Then I called her out on it. I told her they were in love with each other. She denied it for awhile but then admitted to it. At first she offered to break it off with him. I told her he wasn't the problem we had the problem between ourselves. We had to fix us. When it kept going and got worse, I would then ask her to break it off and of course, she would say no. And that is where she has stayed ever since.

The last time we had sex was after Thanksgiving 2019. In June I took her on a trip. We had a great time. Things were looking up. We tried sex. It didn't work out too well. For me, it felt like she felt pressured. For her, she thought it was fine. So when I told her my feelings, and I did relay them poorly, she took it as an attack on her sexuality again (the first time was when the fight started).

Now I have screwed up a lot in this fight. Since COVID, we both worked from home almost all year long, so we were forced to be in each other's faces. I gave an ultimatum. She refused it completely and took it as an insult (I don't blame her). Friends of our helped us negotiate away from that. A week after our trip, she was seeing him almost every day. One day she asked if her seeing him hurt me and I said yes. I said if they were planned meetings and I knew about them ahead of time, I coped better. The next morning she left me a note saying she went to see him...unplanned. So I levied a second ultimatum. This time she picked divorce.

So I freaked. I came up with an alternative - roommates. She moved out of the master bedroom. We separated finances. We started to distance emotionally. Then she had some scary medical news. I dropped all my progress into that to support her, be with her, pay the copays. But it caused confusion with her. Understandable.

Then she hits me with a bombshell. She wants to take trips with him. The first one coming up very soon. I almost filed for divorce right there and then. My reaction is completely unfair. I recognize that. I took trips to see that woman I mentioned earlier during this fight. My wife pushed me to do that...get away, cool down, get a need met. That woman wanted me to divorce and be with her. So this is how my reaction is so unfair. My wife let me take trips. I am considering divorce because she planned trips with him.

She offered to work on the marriage, finally. She wanted to go on this first trip. I said I needed to feel more secure in the marriage. I needed her back in the bedroom, we needed to do more together without her phone in her hands texting him, and I needed for us to try sex again. So for a few weeks, she meets every single need except the sex part. We're working towards it. We even set a date to talk about sex.

The day before that date, she's low...really low. Her anxiety is high and she's sad. I knew the talk the next day would be bad, and it was. Instead of just focusing on sex, she focused on all the progress we had made and cast doubt as to her motivations for it. I was crushed all over again.

Since then, my hurt caused her more hurt and guilt We were both sliding backwards fast. She has repeatedly said she doesn't want a divorce, she loves me more. When she thinks of me no longer in her life, her face displays a sadness I have never seen and she cries hard.

We do need time apart. We do need a separation. It's probably our last, best chance to save this.

And I am scared out of my mind. Panic attacks (as bad as any PTSD episode I have had) hit me multiple times daily. They hit hardest just as I am about to fall asleep, which wakes and keeps me up. So now I am sleep deprived.

Besides marriage counseling which we maintain, I have been seeing my own therapist. Today I finally restarted an anti-anxiety med, and have a new sleep aid.

But being alone. I have never truly been alone. Never. After my first divorce I won custody of my son, then three. I had something to focus on: job and son. Now, I have nothing. I have no family outside of my wife and son. Any friends I have are mutual friends with my wife. I have no support network at all.

I searched for a support group. COVID took that away. Some do virtual like once a month. I need something like several times a day.

I am tempted to bargain with her, ask her to delay the separation. Give my meds time to settle in. Let me get a grasp on this. I don't want to stop her, that would be disastrous. Kicking this dude's rear in would be too, and trust me he deserves it. He played the game, and he played it brilliantly. She still says she doesn't want a divorce. I do understand her need to separate. She needs to be away from the stress and pain and guilt. I probably need it too, but I can't be alone.

What on earth can I do???

Welcome to MB.

First of all, what a mess. Have you read any of Dr. Harley’s material? The Basic Concepts?

If you both truly want to save this marriage you both need to stop all contact with your affair partners. You need to both make a commitment to your marriage and stop marriage wrecking behavior.

If you both are willing to put the work in and save this marriage we can help you with that. And if this is your plan, do not separate, that will just hurt it more.

So are you ready to put the work in?

I am. She's not She won't stop seeing him (I am not seeing anyone). She wants the separation, I don't but I won't fight it either.

At this stage she says she doesn't want a divorce. I feel that will change during the separation.

I'm guessing with the amount of views to lack of replies I should be preparing for the worst case then?

She doesn’t want a divorce, but she wants to separate? In other words she wants to remain married while she carries on her affair.

How would you go about the separation? Who is going to move out?

Have you told your son anything yet?

My son knows we're heading down this road. He doesn't know about the separation. He knew we were in a very bad place and I was working hard to avert a divorce. Things got better just long enough for me to tell him things got better, then she spun on me and now we're separating. I can't tell him more about what is going on. He has a good relationship with her. She is stepmom but might as well be his mom. His birth mom abandoned us when he was three. She didn't wrong him, she wronged me. If he finds out what happened, I know his loyalty to me will end that relationship. Plus she has family, I don't. I want him to have that support network for life.

She's looking for an apartment. Tomorrow I will go to a hotel and spend nights at the hotel until she finds an apartment. I'll be home during the day while she is at work. She'll take the hotel on the weekends so I can have the house.

She claims the separation is to get away from my pain and get me away from her guilt and so we can both heal a bit so she can clear her head. I mean, I'm suspicious that isn't her true motives. I suspect she wants me to get used to her not being around so divorce can be easier for both of us.

Hey LostAndAloneVet, sorry you are here. From your letter what I understand is your wife is having an affair. She wants to move out so she can carry on the affair without interference. Have you read Dr. Harley's articles on this site or even better his book Surviving an Affair? It explains quite well her mindset. I would probably assume anything she says is fog-babble and should be taken with a grain of salt. She wants an easy separation and divorce to go all in on her affair. People in affairs do not think clearly. They often make ridiculous choices only clearly so in hindsight. They are being driven by their emotions and not their intelligence.

Being separated will allow the affair to grow and make divorce more statistically likely. If she wants a separation, why are you the one leaving your house for a few days if you do not want a divorce? Are you trying to make her affair more comfortable for her? If I wanted my marriage and my wife to understand what I stand for, I would never leave my house. I would stand up for my values and let her know I will fight for my marriage. Maybe it is time to take a different approach and start to fight for your marriage? If you don't want to fight for your marriage, that of course is your choice and if you divorce because of her infidelity that is something I can respect having been in your shoes. But honestly I do not think that is what you want, or why else would you be here?

You really need to read all of the concepts on this website. There are steps which when used can break down this affair and the vets here can help guide you. Then your wife and you will have a choice on whether to try and repair the marriage or not. This will take some time and will be really hard for everyone. But until you break up the affair - or it dies a natural death over time as most do - you cannot make much progress on recovering your marriage. That is why the vets ask you are you willing to do the hard work. You served so you are used to hard work. What are you afraid of now?

What values are those, exactly?

Sugarcane hit it, and it's a hard pill for me to swallow. Our values are, indeed, different.

I have been fighting for my marriage, right ways and wrong with mistakes, all spring and summer long. It has taken its toll on both of us tremendously. I don't know her true feelings on the separation. For me, it is a last ditch effort. I can't think of anything else to try.

Could you please answer Blackhawk’s questions? He asked you some valuable questions.

I'm brand new so I haven't. I'll spend the upcoming week while alone to do these readings.

I am leaving the house because I see no other option or solution. She's mentally breaking (I see it and I don't believe it is an act). *I* am mentally breaking. I don't want this relationship she is having to be more comfortable. But for all these months, it got more comfortable and stronger anyways. So I am leaving for a few weeks so we can catch our breath, regain some strength. I have been fighting for our marriage. As I said, it was always open. She wanted to turn it poly and I was starting to navigate through it when we got to this point. I was the one that threatened divorce since this started, because of the pain and neglect. She would bring me away from that point, but then the yo yo effect would start with the ups and downs.

I'll read up on it all and I am ready to do the work. My only fear - abandonment and being alone. And I will be alone for the next two weeks. My first self-care reading since this all started was No More Mr Nice Guy. The first several chapters of that book felt like it was my biography.

Thank you Brainhurts for the redirect. I would have missed those. My concentration isn't as sharp as it used to these days.

Hello LostAndAloneVet, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am not sure what there is to save here. Marriage is supposed to be an exclusive relationship; you and your wife decided long ago you did not want that. You have not had a marriage except in name only. Why be married if you want to be with other people? So why not be single so you can play around?

The problem is not your wife's open affair, but your philosophy of marriage. Your philosophy of marriage could not sustain any marriage. You could try to bust up this affair, but for what purpose?

I would add that the Marriage Builders program does not work in situations where the partners are actively seeking affairs. All the need meeting in the world cannot ever overcome that.

I will respect your opinion and thought process but also respectfully disagree with this statement. Everyone is unique and different and do not come from the same mold. What has given me hope throughout all of this up to this point is that I know of people from all lifestyles (gay, bi, straight, monogamous, poly, swingers, etc) that have overcome tremendous obstacles to save their marriage and remain with the primary partner that they love and cherish. THAT is my goal. To dismiss someone because they do not fit into the mold you came from is disappointing. There is still help that is needed and help to be given. If it takes adjustments, then that is up to you if you want to make those adjustments to assist me. You are not judged either way.

My philosophy of marriage is quite the same as most everyone else. The difference is where sex comes into play. Some married couples believe in joint bank accounts and others don't. Some believe in having children and others don't. Some believe in owning a home and others believe in renting. The problem we had wasn't a disagreement in how we wanted our marriage to work - it was an obstacle that turned into something worse. I do not believe that obstacle needs to be eliminated. It needs to be navigated. But since it turned into something worse, I want to repair the damage caused by that obstacle so we can then move forward and navigate over/around/through it.

Are you able to judge that having an open marriage is not a good idea? Your philosophy of marriage has failed. Can you see that what Dr Harley says is true, that as soon as one need is met outside of marriage, the others are soon to follow?

You have a demonstrably failed philosophy of marriage. Your best ideas have led you to this terrible place. We can't help you if you won't change that. If your spouse can't meet your needs and you can't meet hers, then there is no point in being married in the first place. In a successful marriage, they meet each others emotional needs and have a policy of exclusivity.

Even so, we are not here to help you prop up your failed ideas of marriage. We are here to support couples save their marriages using the Marriage Builders concepts. Did you want help with that?

Your analogy doesn't work because a joint bank account is not a marriage wrecking decision. Having sex outside of marriage IS. As you have learned the hard way.

My suggestion is to put aside your own philosophy of marriage and keep an open mind. When your own ideas don't work, it is a good idea to consider ideas that do work.

The danger of getting your needs met outside of marriage is that eventually you will find someone who does a better job of it than your spouse. That is what has happened in every swinger case that has presented on this forum in the 20 years I have been here. Your wife found someone who did a better job meeting her needs. If the objective was to get her needs met outside of marriage, I don't understand on what grounds you can object to her relationship.

I don't understand what you're saying here. What is the obstacle, and why don't you want it eliminated? Why do you want to navigate it instead?