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DDay was a little over one month ago. After being shell shocked, and not really being sure of what direction I wanted to go, I’ve recently decided that I want to save my marriage. It looks hopeless to everyone I’ve shared my story with, and the overwhelming advice I’ve received has been to move on with my life and divorce this SOB. But that’s not what’s in my heart. I can’t let go, until I feel like I’ve done everything I could do, regardless of how awful he is being.

I’ve made posts on Reddit, which I will link below for those who would like to read the excruciating details.

But here I will summarize as much as I can:

-WH and I have been together 14 years, married 4. We have no children.

-I found out on April 15th that he’d had a physical and emotional affair with a former co-worker. I caught them talking on the phone late at night. As far as I’ve been able to get out of him, the physical aspect of the affair had only been going on for about a week prior to DDay. The emotional aspect, I don’t know. But the max is 3 months, because that is the length of time they’ve known each other.

- When confronted about the affair, WH told me that he only cheated because he was drunk (he is an alcoholic), but that he hasn’t been happy anyway. A bunch of nonsense about me holding him hostage for 14 years. He loves me, but isn’t in love anymore. He wants a divorce. I let him take the apartment. I moved in with my sister.

- We barely communicated over the next few weeks, when we did it was via text. His arguments about the affair started out with him defensively trying to rewrite history, with tales of him being trapped, but they quickly changed to sad goodbye texts where he tells me I was a great wife, he loved the time we shared, but he needs to find happiness elsewhere. Here is one such text:

Quote
T-----, I don’t know what to say. All I can say right now is how incredibly sorry I am. The times we’ve spent together were amazing and I’ll always keep them special to me. Your a good woman and even better wife. I hate that your hurting and I wish that it didn't end the way it did. You deserve so much better than me. I hope you and I can find the happiness that we want. I truly do love and miss you. I’ll always miss every moment we shared. Your laughter, your touch, your kisses, your warm embrace I will miss all of it. I’m sorry I can’t be that person for you. I will only hurt you more and more and eventually it will be too late for us to start anew. I’ve done some [censored] up [censored] in my life but this I regret the most. Making you cry, making you sad, disrespecting  our marriage and love, all of it I regret and will always be ashamed of it. We need to move forward with our lives and find whatever it is that will keep us happy, but we have to do it alone. I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry!!!! I know I can’t say it enough to make you feel better but I hope one day you will forgive me.!

- WH and I are still on the same phone plan, so I can see that they are still talking to each. Without knowing anything about exposure techniques, and the proper way to do things. Sheerly out of anger, I exposed the affair to his parents and the OW parents. I just didn’t want them to be able to present each other to their families and act as if they’re a legitimate couple. WH was livid when I contacted the OW’s father. We got into a nasty text fight, and that ended all communication.

- One day I decided to call him to ask about a financial matter, during that call he told me that he’d just been released from the hospital because he’d gotten blackout drunk, and apparently walked into a police station and told them that he wanted to kill himself. They had him admitted into the hospital. I speak to his dad, who wants my help getting him into a treatment program for his depression and addiction. I send WH info on some programs. He basically replies, thanks, but no thanks. Doesn’t think he needs rehab, just help with his depression. I decide to wash my hands of it.

- A couple days later, WH calls me out of the blue. He’s crying, telling me how miserable his life has become. He hates what he’s done. Can’t bare to be in the apartment alone. It no longer feels like a home. When he opens his eyes in the morning, he still expects me to be there lying next to him. He says that he doesn’t want us to be enemies. He doesn’t want to fight with me anymore. He’s made an appointment to see a psychiatrist about his depression. I was hesitant, but this opened the lines of communication again. We ended up talking that entire week for 3-4+ hours per night. There was no real talk of reconciliation, but at my request we decided to postpone any divorce filings. And WH more than once brought up examples of couples who had survived infidelity, and “who knows what could happen in the future”. However, I became aware by checking his phone records that he was still talking to and seeing the OW.

-We made plans to meet up so that he could visit with our dog. It would be our first time seeing each other since DDay. We were supposed to spend the day together. Take the dog to the park, grab something to eat, watch a movie at his place. It was an awkward reunion for the both of us, and halfway through he made up an excuse to cut it short. Said he had a thing to do at work suddenly, and that he was going bowling with the guys later. I didn’t take it well. I wanted him to stick it out, and push through the uncomfortable feelings. Like I always do. He said that he couldn’t. He needs baby steps. He says he can barely look me in the face. He feels like how he imagines a murderer feels when they have to face their victim’s family. I’m everything I don’t want to be in this moment: I’m begging, pleading, clinging... fruitlessly. Finally, we say goodbye. He tells me, “btw, you look beautiful today. I’ll call you later”. His phone records show that he called the OW less than 10 minutes after I left.


I’ve been distraught the last few days over this disaster of a meetup. He didn’t call me until yesterday. I didn’t talk. Told him I’d call him when he got home from work. I just wanted to avoid talking to him. I don’t want to do or say anything else wrong. I don’t want anymore damage done. I’ve just been flailing around doing whatever I think is right, without any plan. And I have no idea what’s going on in his head. One minute he seems sorrowful that I’m not in his life, but then he’s ditching me again for the OW.

Where do I go from here? Is it too late for our marriage? Can I still do Plan A or Plan B? I haven’t actually told him that I want to fix the marriage or asked him to stop seeing the OW. Those seemed like two things he’d obviously reject at the moment, and I’m tired of being hurt and disappointed. Plan B doesn’t seem like it would work now since our latest interactions haven’t been the most pleasant.

I’m looking for advice on what to do next, that doesn’t include forgetting him and filling for divorce. That’s the only advice I’ve gotten thus far, as you can see in the links below.

***EDIT***

Last edited by Ariel; 05/20/21 02:54 AM. Reason: Removing links
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After reading through some of the posts on this forum it seems like I should have avoided separation. But he left on Dday. This all happened just as the lease on our old apartment was ending, and we were packing to move into our new one. I didn’t want to get stuck paying that rent myself, if he didn’t come back.

Now I’ve been thinking that I should move into his apartment. I’m on the lease... But I’ll look crazy if I do this now, right??

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Originally Posted by Mustache
I’m looking for advice on what to do next, that doesn’t include forgetting him and filling for divorce. That’s the only advice I’ve gotten thus far, as you can see in the links below.
Enter into Plan B - I can see that you've read about what that entails, and why it is done.

Send him a Plan B letter. The conditions that you will stipulate for getting back together are that he ends all contact with OW (he must prove that his has happened), and he enters into a rehabilitation plan for his alcoholism, and is clean for a year (he must prove this, too). He must do both those things before contacting you again.


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Originally Posted by Mustache
After reading through some of the posts on this forum it seems like I should have avoided separation.
No, that's not true. A woman must separate almost immediately that she realises that her WH will not stop the affair. Plan A for women is really only a promise that if he stops the affair, you will work to build a better marriage. It is not a period of time in which you put up with his affair while trying to meet his emotional needs. A woman can easily have a nervous breakdown trying to do that (ask me how I know), and having two women meeting his needs only makes the WH happier than ever.

Plan A is completely different for woman than for men. For Dr Harley, who invented the plans, the most important thing is to protect a woman's mental and physical health from the effects of the affair, not to fight the affair head-on, as a man is recommended to do.

Originally Posted by Mustache
Now I’ve been thinking that I should move into his apartment. I’m on the lease... But I’ll look crazy if I do this now, right??
Not only would you look crazy, you would BE crazy. Moving in with your sister was the right thing to do. Do not support his affair financially, either. Don't pay for the apartment unless he brings a court action against you.


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Is the OW married or dating anyone else?

Agree with SugarCane, you need to go to a dark Plan B. Write a Plan B letter and post it here.


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Originally Posted by Mustache
Without knowing anything about exposure techniques, and the proper way to do things. Sheerly out of anger, I exposed the affair to his parents and the OW parents. I just didn’t want them to be able to present each other to their families and act as if they’re a legitimate couple. WH was livid when I contacted the OW’s father.
It sounds as if OW is single. Can you confirm this, please?

Her parents were a fantastic exposure target - well done for doing this. Did you get any reaction from them?

What about WH's family? They must have reacted to you. What has been their attitude? Have they been supportive to you? Have you spoken to any of his siblings?

Did you tell them that he is an alcoholic? Did you specifically ask them for their support with this, and with the affair?

Also, how is this a "former" co-worker? I take it that she no longer works closely with him, but does she work in any way for the same organisation? For example, did she get a transfer to another post? If she is still in any way connected to the organisation, then this is a workplace affair, and that is another avenue for exposure.


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Is the OW married or dating anyone else?

Originally Posted by SugarCane
It sounds as if OW is single. Can you confirm this, please?

She is single as far as I can tell. She’s definitely not married.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Her parents were a fantastic exposure target - well done for doing this. Did you get any reaction from them?

What about WH's family? They must have reacted to you. What has been their attitude? Have they been supportive to you? Have you spoken to any of his siblings?

Did you tell them that he is an alcoholic? Did you specifically ask them for their support with this, and with the affair?

Also, how is this a "former" co-worker? I take it that she no longer works closely with him, but does she work in any way for the same organisation? For example, did she get a transfer to another post? If she is still in any way connected to the organisation, then this is a workplace affair, and that is another avenue for exposure.

The OW’s father did not respond directly to my message.

WH’s parents were very upset. Heartbroken. I did tell them that he is an alcoholic, which his father already knew. I don’t think I specifically asked for their support, but his father did offer it. They do not live in the same state as us. His father has tried to fly him home to have him do rehab there, and be away from the OW. WH refuses to go.

I wish I’d been more strategic at the time, and specifically asked for their support. But I didn’t really know then if I even wanted the marriage anymore. What type of support should I have asked for?

My WH is a Chef and the OW is a waitress. The night they slept together was her last night working at their restaurant. She has multiple waitressing gigs, it seems. None of the restaurants are affiliated. I was introduced to her once by my WH when were on a double date at one of the places she works. This was allegedly before the affair began. I was going to contact that restaurant to inform them that one of their waitresses had solicited my husband. I was told that would be pointless, other than to possibly get me into legal trouble.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Enter into Plan B - I can see that you've read about what that entails, and why it is done.

Send him a Plan B letter. The conditions that you will stipulate for getting back together are that he ends all contact with OW (he must prove that his has happened), and he enters into a rehabilitation plan for his alcoholism, and is clean for a year (he must prove this, too). He must do both those things before contacting you again.

So Plan B could still work, even if our last communications were on a sour note? I thought a part of of Plan A was to leave the Wayward with sort of a good impression, before having to go dark if necessary. Should I tell him first that I want to stay married and rebuild our relationship, or save it for the Plan B letter?

Im concerned about Plan B because we don’t have any children; I don’t know how much love he truly has left for me. Plan B feels like I’m just walking away. I guess I’m worried there isn’t enough to motivate him.


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Originally Posted by Mustache
So Plan B could still work, even if our last communications were on a sour note?
Plan B always works. Always. Its purpose is to shield you from the direct, day-to-day effects of the affair, while allowing you to wait out the affair. Its purpose is to stop you being affected negatively as you watch your husband carry on with another woman in front of your face. If you stay separated and have no further direct communication with him, that purpose will be achieved. Plan B will always work.

Originally Posted by Mustache
I thought a part of of Plan A was to leave the Wayward with sort of a good impression, before having to go dark if necessary. Should I tell him first that I want to stay married and rebuild our relationship, or save it for the Plan B letter?
Put it in the letter. A Plan B letter, in circumstances like yours where you are hoping to rebuild the marriage after the affair ends, is a love letter. It expresses love for the WS and regret at having to take the action, and explains that the pain is too much for you to bear and that is why you must not communicate with him unless and until the affair is over.

If you're hoping that we'll say to go back and do a good Plan A for a few more days or weeks, where you are loving to your H to show him that you are the better woman, nobody here will advise you of that. All the regular posters here understand Dr Harley's plans very well, and we know that you tried to show him that already, but he left you anyway, after hurting you badly even after the discovery. You have already shown him that you want to rebuild the marriage. He is not in any doubt about that. The problem is that he cannot and will not break free of his addiction to OW. If your hurt could have made him do that, it would have done so by now. The only hope now is to stay away from him until and unless he works on himself.

Originally Posted by Mustache
Im concerned about Plan B because we don’t have any children; I don’t know how much love he truly has left for me. Plan B feels like I’m just walking away. I guess I’m worried there isn’t enough to motivate him.
The lack of children is a valid concern, as is the question of how much love he has left. However, the unspoken alternative that you are proposing (or hoping that we'll propose) is that you lie down under his feet for him to hurt you for as long as he wants, in the hope that he'll realise how much you must love him and come to his senses. And my dear friend, that simply isn't going to happen.

One reason for my stating that so confidently is his alcoholism, which seems to be something that you do not want to tackle head on.

You can't live with him while he drinks, quite apart from while he carries out an affair. He needs to become clean and sober for at least a year before you can begin to believe that he will put you first in his life, rather than alcohol. You were fighting against something that he loved more than you even before he found OW. You did not have a marriage for that reason alone.

Dr Harley is an addiction specialist and he would never advise you to consider living with him while he drinks.

Dr Harley will speak directly to you (for free) if you email him at the radio show. He will speak to you in private, or by email, or on the show so that others can benefit from his advice. We posters always like it when the question is dealt with on the show, because we can then use that advice on similar cases, but this is a matter of your own privacy and Dr Harley will reply in the manner of your choosing.

The reason I am writing to you with such confidence now is because I listen to the radio show, and I have heard the unvarying advice that Dr Harley gives. Please consider writing to him there.




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Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by them to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by SugarCane
If you're hoping that we'll say to go back and do a good Plan A for a few more days or weeks, where you are loving to your H to show him that you are the better woman, nobody here will advise you of that. All the regular posters here understand Dr Harley's plans very well, and we know that you tried to show him that already, but he left you anyway, after hurting you badly even after the discovery. You have already shown him that you want to rebuild the marriage. He is not in any doubt about that. The problem is that he cannot and will not break free of his addiction to OW. If your hurt could have made him do that, it would have done so by now. The only hope now is to stay away from him until and unless he works on himself.

Yes, I guess that is what I was hoping to hear. I’m dreading going back to NC right now. The only happiness I’ve had since DDay is when he decided to finally call me. But I know I have to do the Plan B. I can’t just pretend he’s not still seeing the other woman. And honestly, choosing her over me. It’s too devastating.


Originally Posted by SugarCane
The lack of children is a valid concern, as is the question of how much love he has left. However, the unspoken alternative that you are proposing (or hoping that we'll propose) is that you lie down under his feet for him to hurt you for as long as he wants, in the hope that he'll realise how much you must love him and come to his senses. And my dear friend, that simply isn't going to happen.

One reason for my stating that so confidently is his alcoholism, which seems to be something that you do not want to tackle head on.

You can't live with him while he drinks, quite apart from while he carries out an affair. He needs to become clean and sober for at least a year before you can begin to believe that he will put you first in his life, rather than alcohol. You were fighting against something that he loved more than you even before he found OW. You did not have a marriage for that reason alone.

Dr Harley is an addiction specialist and he would never advise you to consider living with him while he drinks.

Dr Harley will speak directly to you (for free) if you email him at the radio show. He will speak to you in private, or by email, or on the show so that others can benefit from his advice. We posters always like it when the question is dealt with on the show, because we can then use that advice on similar cases, but this is a matter of your own privacy and Dr Harley will reply in the manner of your choosing.

The reason I am writing to you with such confidence now is because I listen to the radio show, and I have heard the unvarying advice that Dr Harley gives. Please consider writing to him there.

I’m not tackling the alcoholism because I don’t really know much about it. Yes it put a strain on our marriage, that we downplayed, even before the infidelity. I believe he is an alcoholic. His father (who is a recovered alcoholic) believes he is an alcoholic. However, WH insists that drinking isn’t his issue. His depression due to FOO issues is. If he can take care of the depression and anxiety, he won’t want to drink is his rationale. I don’t know if that may be true or not.

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Is it okay to send the Plan B letter via text? I guess I can send it via text and email.

I don’t have anyone who can be an intermediary. Not sure what to do there.

And can someone explain to me the purpose of also sending the Plan B letter to the other woman? That seems a bit humiliating, and like it would do nothing but amuse her.

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by them to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

How can I listen to the radio show?

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Originally Posted by Mustache
I’m not tackling the alcoholism because I don’t really know much about it. Yes it put a strain on our marriage, that we downplayed, even before the infidelity. I believe he is an alcoholic. His father (who is a recovered alcoholic) believes he is an alcoholic. However, WH insists that drinking isn’t his issue. His depression due to FOO issues is. If he can take care of the depression and anxiety, he won’t want to drink is his rationale. I don’t know if that may be true or not.

al-anon.org is for those with an alcoholic spouse. Consider attending a few of their meetings; they are everywhere. I think you will find that the depression and alcoholism are linked. Drinking often starts as a coping mechanism for depression but then of course turns into an addiction. It takes a full 5 years for the brain to rewire but three months of rehab/therapy is enough to get him onto his feet. Then after a year with no relapse you can consider taking him back if you wish to. Often part of the treatment is prescribing anti depressants. The affair is another coping mechanism, the adrenaline rush temporarily masks the depression.

He will not agree to go to rehab until he has no other choices (he has hit bottom). You are fortunate in that his father is on your team.



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Originally Posted by Mustache
And can someone explain to me the purpose of also sending the Plan B letter to the other woman? That seems a bit humiliating, and like it would do nothing but amuse her.
I can't remember whether this is Dr Harley's direct recommendation, or whether you've read this advice from other posters (and I don't have time to look it up). Can you provide a link, please?.


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Originally Posted by Mustache
How can I listen to the radio show?
There is a link on the very top right of this page and every page.


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Originally Posted by Mustache
I believe he is an alcoholic. His father (who is a recovered alcoholic) believes he is an alcoholic. However, WH insists that drinking isn’t his issue. His depression due to FOO issues is. If he can take care of the depression and anxiety, he won’t want to drink is his rationale. I don’t know if that may be true or not.
It doesn't really matter what the root of it is; the issue is that he is dependent on it. He needs to enter a treatment programme and stop drinking for life.

Is he doing anything about the depression? Has he consulted his GP about it?


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Originally Posted by Mustache
I don’t have anyone who can be an intermediary. Not sure what to do there.
Your intermediary wouldn't have to do much, as you don't have children. He really does not need to contact you at all except after a few months to say that the affair is over. If you feel that there are bills that you need to share, set up standing orders/direct debits. What else would he need to contact you about?

If he sends you nasty messages telling you that you've ruined the marriage and his life, your intermediary does not pass them on. If he sends messages begging you to meet, again, they are not passed on.

Once the affair is over, you can talk directly to him while he goes through rehab. You can date again, if he seems to be dry. You don't move in together until you are sure that he had stopped and is not relapsing.

Would your sister do it?


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Originally Posted by living_well
al-anon.org is for those with an alcoholic spouse. Consider attending a few of their meetings; they are everywhere. I think you will find that the depression and alcoholism are linked. Drinking often starts as a coping mechanism for depression but then of course turns into an addiction. It takes a full 5 years for the brain to rewire but three months of rehab/therapy is enough to get him onto his feet. Then after a year with no relapse you can consider taking him back if you wish to. Often part of the treatment is prescribing anti depressants. The affair is another coping mechanism, the adrenaline rush temporarily masks the depression.

He will not agree to go to rehab until he has no other choices (he has hit bottom). You are fortunate in that his father is on your team.

Thanks, I will check out Al-anon.

I thought being hospitalized would be his rock bottom. I thought surely he’d agree to treatment now. But instead he was insisting that his problem wasn’t the drinking; that it had been days since he last drank, and he didn’t even care to. Of course it quickly became a struggle for him. He texted me one night that he was losing it on everyone at work, and he just wanted a shot to calm down. I was able to talk him out of it. I stayed up with him on the phone until 4am while he went between pacing the floor of his apartment and walking his neighborhood, trying to cope with his anxiety without having a drink. The next day he ditched me for the OW.


Originally Posted by SugarCane
It doesn't really matter what the root of it is; the issue is that he is dependent on it. He needs to enter a treatment programme and stop drinking for life.

Is he doing anything about the depression? Has he consulted his GP about it?

Yes, I agree that the root doesn’t matter. He does not want to stop drinking for life. That’s why he doesn’t want to go to rehab. He thinks that he can eventually enjoy drinking, and not be an alcoholic.

He did schedule an appointment with his GP to get a referral to a psychiatrist. He told me that if the psychiatrist says he needs rehab, he’ll do it. But I don’t know. He is so resistant to everything. Wouldn’t see a MC for our marital issues, wouldn’t see an IC for his childhood abuse issues, wouldn’t take his anxiety meds, won’t even order a stress ball to see if it helps with his anxiety at work. I’ve never seen someone so miserable, to the point of wanting to throw themselves in front of a train, but they refuse to even try anything.

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