X out<P><p>[This message has been edited by RJHope (edited July 14, 2001).]

RJ there comes a certain point in these situation when you have to let go of the situation and give it to God. I went thru a lot of marriage counseling and my wife quit and i continued for 6 more months. Then she left me. Most marriage counseling is worthless. I think the only good marriage counseling is by a Pastor of a church that is truly a man of God, and he dont charge for leading a marriage into healing. Theres got to be something inheritanly wrong with that. Charge to do the work of the Lord? I dont think so. Anyway ive been seperated for 3 years now and i started seeing my wife again 8 months ago(miracle in itself) and we have only grown closer ever since. She is in love with me again and probably more than she ever was, and believe me brother, there was a time when she didnt care weather i lived or died. She hated me with a passion. She does have manic depression and that was part of her anger problem, but she is getting the help she needs now and 3 months ago finally told me , she wanted the Lord to put our marriage and family back together again. I had to find a balance along the way that was hard to find. I had to let her go, yet trust and believe God would restore our marriage and family. I was in so much pain that it started coming naturally to me to cry and pray to the Lord most of my nights when i got off work. Ive grown close to God now and have peace and encoragment that God has heard my cries and prayers. Jesus is the only answer to these God sized problems. Marriage counselers may be of some good at times but they are not the answer and have a very bad success rate. Jesus has a very good success rate. Trust in Him. He will restore your wifes heart and in the mean time, The Lord wants you to have a close relationship with Him. He wants to be first in your life. The Lord wouldnt start putting my marriage back together until He was first in my life. That is the key. Trust in the Lord to lead you in His wisdom and direction for your life. Nothing is to great for the Lord to handle. The Lord is more than willing to restore a marriage. It gives Him great glory. He now wants to know if you trust Him to do so. God bless you brother and you are in my prayers.<BR>Mark

X out<p>[This message has been edited by RJHope (edited July 14, 2001).]

RJ hope, i was born and raised catholic. Im no longer catholic, but non denominational. I just believe in the bible. I agree its hard to find a good pastor that believes in marriage restoration these days let alone a catholic preist. Im not trying to put down anybodys faith or denomination, but when it comes to our marriages , we deserve the very best God has to offer us. Many claim they are just that, but there actions speak differently. I pray that the Lord leads you to a Godly person or pastor that can stand by you and counsel you in the ways of the Lord ad not man.<BR>In Jesus name, Amen<BR>Mark

I think it's important to realize that the enemy attacks men of God the hardest. We are told not to judge so we shouldn't (but it sure is hard not to sometimes!!) Anyway, if you are Catholic, try going to confession and Communion often. This helps me to get over my worst moments and worst depression. The sacraments are there for you and they are powerful. Most of us never go to confession but it really is awesome once you start going. It feels like you get to start over with a clean slate and can give you the grace you need to overcome the habits and thoughts you want to get rid of.<BR>It's really important not to confuse the role of the priest with the man. You are right that he should have given you more time (but maybe he felt ill-equipped or had "lost" others so was afraid?) but it doesn't mean that he can't give you the sacraments. He can - his role goes above his personality, his self.<BR>I am often disappointed in the priests I meet but there are also some great ones. They really are attacked on all sides so we just have to look at their good sides and support them as best we can. (Even talk to them if we feel we're not getting what we need.)<BR>Don't give up yet! Remember the Bible says that Hell will not prevail against the Church...<BR>Take care - T

I respect the Catholic Church very much and my children went to Catholic School for 2 years and we all learned a lot there as I taught guitar there as well<P>I would like to tell you all that God loves you and I pray healing in your life and God is a God of love and is love<BR>and I pray that she will love you again and pray that the places you are seeking love will bring you into joy and healing from God<P>May Jesus touch your life and heal your needs<P>Carol

X out<p>[This message has been edited by RJHope (edited July 14, 2001).]

RJ,<BR>It;s good to see you again...how are things going? I've been praying for you, I hope you're feeling better.<BR>Any changes in your situation? I hope....<P> <BR>Lupo

I just got to laugh RJ. Religion is religion and you will find it in every denomination. You are to put your Faith in Jesus and Jesus only. Psalm 118:8 Trust in God and not man.<BR>That verse is supposedly in the very center of the bible. Go figure. We live in the end times, and i dont mean to be gloomdoomy, but its the truth. 4000 divorces , 5000 abortions a day in great america, suicide is legal here in Oregon and the constitution is no longer valid anywhere in the nation. Church's are full of apostocy and greed and families are turning on each other the list goes on. If we cant handle trusting God to restore our marriages along with everything else messed up in our lives then how are we going to handle persecution and another depression that is going to come. Wishful thinking wont change reality. However we can change how we may handle it, by growing in our faith in the Lord. We are blessed to go thru these trials, cause when the Stuff really hits the fan, we will have strenth and courage in the Lord to make it thru anything. Read the story of Joseph in Genesis starting in 37. You will see what he went thru before God gave him what was promised. The pit, prison, then ruler of Egypt right out of prison. It is a really encouaraging story of betrayal, falsly accused and victory. Anyone can relate going thru hell in there marriages to this story. And also where we may be in a world where most around us are struggling to survive in the end. I highly recommend this reading. Most also forget what Jesus went thru. He was betrayed and denied and forsaken by His own as He was tortured and died on the cross. But Jesus has risen and so will we. God makes us wait to teach us trust and patience. The devil pushes us to accept instant gratification. Look at our society. I dont think they had all the perscription drugs back in Jesus day as we have now, or all the 12 step programs. I dont think they had electricity or running water either. We are a soft, weak people. We need to wake up to what life really is all about. Trusting God no matter what. Hang in there RJ. I know you can make it. Ive had the same attitude and anger and every other emotion that you have. All i know is God has saw me thru most of it and im still in it. I do hope and pray those of us in these trials of marital destruction would soon end.<BR>Mark

X out<p>[This message has been edited by RJHope (edited July 14, 2001).]

I reply to your note saying yes I was rejected because I was a Christian and even in prayer groups the minute the Catholics saw I was not one I was kicked about, discussed behind my back and doors closed in my face<P>I guess although I have Jesus in my heart, they don't want anything to do with me<P>I could never figure out why<P>Thank you for your strong letter and I will stick on your safe side of the wall and stay Christian<P>CarolBo

Well RJ, you really bring back some memeories for me. I see a lot of myself in you. I had the same attitude and questions you now have. I got upset at people ,even here for as i put it false hope in a hopeless situation. I got mad at God for putting me here in hell when i didnt ask for it. Its legal to have a doctor administer poison to you in Oregon to take your life if you are in to much pain or terminally ill. Now the pain i felt at times was so excrusiating that i begged God to take my life daily for about a year and a half. He didnt take me, so it was plan B, not to be confused with MB's plan B. I attempted suicide. Something i would not recommend to anyone. It was a very frightening experience to say the least. That night i met God and He was not happy with me, nor did He baby me. I wont get into the details, but i layed there while i stopped breathing and my heart was in excrusiating pain and i believe i was between life and death. I cried at the time, God i dont want to die. God said, repeat what you just said. I said i dont want to die. God said, it is not your time. Man He was there. I recovered. I do have a bad heart now. I acually wanted to live after that night. I dont believe i would of went to hell if i died, im one of Gods. I do believe however that you wont go unless God says so. You may wake up and be an invalid or something that will remind you not to step out of the will of God. I have a bad heart and liver now. We hang on here, cause our life was bought at a price. Jesus was tortured and died on a cross and shed his blood for us. We have eternal heaven, and a life with no more tears after we leave this hell on earth. Yes i still hate this life. What doesnt kill you makes you stronger. I cant fully tell you how i have made it thru so much. I suppose it was Gods strenth, and not my own. We are here to glorify God. The devil wants us to focus on ourselves and our own satisfaction. When we do that we start to hate God and life. We want instant gratification. Without being close to God and a strong faith, no one could make it in this life of hell. As you can see it isnt working. We will just want to end it all.<BR>Dear Lord, i pray you give my brother RJ your peace and rest thru these trials he is in. Lord i know the pain involved and i know whats it like to give up on life. Lord have mercy on RJ for he cant see past the pain he is in and he doesnt understand why life is only a nightmare. Lord, your word says you never leave us or forsake us, but many of us feel utterly forsaken in our pain and sorrow. Lord, we cannot make it without you. Many will die in this desert, because of pain and sorrow. Lord, we dont always know how to trust you. Teach us your ways. Have mercy on your children Lord. We cry out to you day and night.In Jesus name, Amen<BR>Mark

X out<p>[This message has been edited by RJHope (edited July 14, 2001).]

X out<p>[This message has been edited by RJHope (edited July 14, 2001).]

RJ, im praying for you brother. We all go thru periods of giving up and thats usually when the Lord steps in and lifts you up. I pray that the Lord would be your strenth, cause our own strenth eventually fails us, especially when it comes to a broken and shattered heart. Lord, i would ask that you continue to draw nearer to RJ and show him your peace and love. Calm his heart Lord. He has been crying out to you and needs to know your there. I plead mercy for my brother RJ in Jesus name, amen.<BR>Rj, try to let go of being angry with the Lord. Its the enemy of your soul that is tormenting you. God usually allows it cause we fear a weak defeated enemy and God wants to change that. <BR>When i was a kid, there was a bully in the neiborhood and i was afraid of him and he was older and bigger than me also. One day i pointed him out to my dad and my dad called him over and told him to my amazment that him and me were going to brawl. I was bummed. Then my dad whispered in my ear that if i loose my dad would hurt me far worse. I worked the kid over bad. It wasnt my strenth that made me win, it was my fear for my daddy. Fear the Lord, and stand againts your enemy, for the Lord is with you and cant loose.<BR>God cannot be mocked. The enemy has but a short time. Somewhere in the bible it says we will look upon the devil and say is that weak pathetic creature the one whom messed with us during our life in the flesh. We will be amazed at how stupid and foolish we were. come on back to the front line brother. We need all the warriours we can get. <BR>Mark

RJ,<P>I think it is time for you to get some help. Don't be so wrapped up in your misery that you forget you are the head of a family. You have to hold your head up high. You are not alone in this. It's a road that a lot of people are on, unfortunately. Luckily, we can learn from the support of the others on our road. I hope you can accept the support you are getting here, esp. from Mark.<P>I also want you to know that I don't accept the Catholic bashing that you want to get into. We are all children of God. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience but I have been on the receiving end of all sorts of garbage because I am Catholic. I reject the prejudices and the criticism because it applies to people and not to the whole church.<P>Nobody has a lock on perfection. We just have to tough it out down here. There are good people and bad people in every church. <P>Most people are trying to figure out life. You just have to forgive them and try not to take offense at things. You also have to try not to GIVE offense. If you said anything at all like some of your postings, it's not surprising if people tried to avoid you because you are really spitting venom and it's not that easy to handle.<P>I take offense not for myself but in the name of Jesus who asked us to STAY TOGETHER. Read John right before the last supper. He begged us to stay together. We are all Christians and we have to set the example for the world. All of these denominations have the most important things in common: Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and luckily for all of us, some of His followers wrote down enough to guide us 2000 years later, IF we choose to accept it.<P>Right now you accept nothing and only see evil. Don't forget that evil was not created by God. If He allows evil in our lives, it's only to draw us closer to Him. But it's our choice: free will. You can turn any evil to great good by accepting the will of God. The evil is instantly weakened and you are strengthened. It's all in how you handle it.<P>I do wish you all the best and I also ask you to please not bash on this forum. You can lead people astray and you are responsible for your words.<P>Dear Jesus,<BR>Sometimes the evil we encounter seems to overpower us. We doubt Your goodness, Your sacrifice and even Your very existence. Lord, we sometimes forget that Your best friends died because they insisted they had seen You after You rose from the dead. They were EYEWITNESSES, Lord. They chose to die rather than simply say, "Jesus was a great man but not the Son of God." They would have been free if they had not insisted that You were the only Son of God. Instead they were tortured, imprisoned and finally killed.<P>Lord, we are surrounded by people who lie to have more money, more power, more prestige. We don't know anybody who would lie so they could be tortured.<P>Help us to remember that, Lord, whenever we doubt. Take away the doubt, Lord and replace it with the faith of steel we need to go on and do Your work here on earth. I ask this in Your Holy Name and I ask you to heal RJHope from his despair.