My wife of 20 years who is divorcing me and I still live in the same home. I must stay to keep alive any hope of reconcilation and to do right by my two children (ages 12 and 15), however she is so cheerful and normal acting. She is even normal acting to me except when I talk about us.<BR>Every cheerful word that comes out of her mouth is so hurtful to me. Why can't she can't she act like what she is doing is bothering her a little, or just leave if she is going to do wrong and damage our children.<BR>It must be so confusing for them to see their Christian mother who knows divorce is wrong yet she still is pursuing divorce with their father (me).<BR>HOW CAN SHE ACT SO CHEERFUL WHEN SHE IS KILLING (figuratively speaking) ME?

Joe,<BR> It is so hard trying to remember it isn't really our spouses saying and doing these things. We are fighting against satan, not our spouses. Satan has his grips on them, they can't help it. We must continue to pray for them and pray the Lord will open their eyes to see and their ears to hear the truth. He will, but it will take time. I don't know when, but I do know it will happen. We have his word on it. Continue to stand on his promises and we will get through this.<BR>Barb

Joe, i agree with Barb. Your wife is under a delusion and she more than likely isnt so cheerful inside. The Holy Spirit wont allow it. She may also be taking antidepressants. Trust in God and not your wifes emotions nor actions. Just do your part and keep your faith. She is probably testing you to see how stong it is, if you have claimed your trusting God to restore your marriage. She may be trying to shake your faith. She is being used by the enemy right now. The enemy figures , hey it works most of the time. Lay it all in Gods hands daily, and pray for His strenth daily to carry you thru.<BR>Mark

This is my first time here at this sight; a friend thought I might learn a thing or two. Your topic caught my attention, and tweaked my curiosity enough so that I went back and looked at all you postings in a attempt to have a better understanding of you and your wife.<BR>You state that your wife has major emotional problems in your early writings, and in your last writing state that she is happy as long as you aren't talking about "US". In additon, you ask the question abut writing her a letter to tell her how much you love her and are willing to change to make the marriage work if she drops the divorce proceedings. But your first note says it all; she is divorcing you for no reason, your opinion.<BR>Joe, can you see the incongruence in your statements? If you have done nothing wrong to cause the divorce then there would be no need for you to make cahnges, and if you made changes to accommodate your wife, then wouldn't you be compromising who and what you are as a man of God? But, if you have committed sins against your wife and marriage either by omission or commision, then not only do you need to make changes, but you need to humble yourself and ask for specific forgiveness. Next you would have to prove to your wife that your are a differnt person then the person who sinned in the marriage and that will take time a effort on your part, along with allot of patience. Yo8ur action will have to show her how sorry you are,not words before she will beleive you and start to trust you again. Have you examined how you are living right now to see if you are showing your love for her?<BR>If you are truely innocent in this, and as you statement says, "wife has severe emotional problems," maybe you should get the children out of the house and into a safer and more emotionally stable environment. I know that is what is suggested to women who are in your position. They ae told that the house and things are not as important as the children and themselves.<BR>Sometimes a marriage needs space, and if she won't give you the space then you need to make that space needed to heal the relatinship. Remeoving you and the children out of the home temporaily will help create that space and maybe she will realize what she is losing and get the help that she needs. If you keep pursing her, it sounds like you will drive her away even farther than she currentlyis and could create additional probelms for you and damage your children even more than what she already has done to them.<BR>Finally, maybe she hasn't left the house because she feels she deserves to stay becasue of your actins that might have undermined your marriage to the point where she feels no other option but to divorce. This would explain why she appears to be happy when she is with the children. As for your final statement, "she is killing you" I would pose the question, what is killing you, her being happy by ending the marriage ending, losing the one who you love an dcherish and want to spend the rest of your life with making her happy, or becoming a divorcee?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by billiam1:<BR><B>This is my first time here at this sight; a friend thought I might learn a thing or two. Your topic caught my attention, and tweaked my curiosity enough so that I went back and looked at all you postings in a attempt to have a better understanding of you and your wife.<BR>You state that your wife has major emotional problems in your early writings, and in your last writing state that she is happy as long as you aren't talking about "US". In additon, you ask the question abut writing her a letter to tell her how much you love her and are willing to change to make the marriage work if she drops the divorce proceedings. But your first note says it all; she is divorcing you for no reason, your opinion.<BR>Joe, can you see the incongruence in your statements? If you have done nothing wrong to cause the divorce then there would be no need for you to make cahnges, and if you made changes to accommodate your wife, then wouldn't you be compromising who and what you are as a man of God? But, if you have committed sins against your wife and marriage either by omission or commision, then not only do you need to make changes, but you need to humble yourself and ask for specific forgiveness. Next you would have to prove to your wife that your are a differnt person then the person who sinned in the marriage and that will take time a effort on your part, along with allot of patience. Yo8ur action will have to show her how sorry you are,not words before she will beleive you and start to trust you again. Have you examined how you are living right now to see if you are showing your love for her?<BR>If you are truely innocent in this, and as you statement says, "wife has severe emotional problems," maybe you should get the children out of the house and into a safer and more emotionally stable environment. I know that is what is suggested to women who are in your position. They ae told that the house and things are not as important as the children and themselves.<BR>Sometimes a marriage needs space, and if she won't give you the space then you need to make that space needed to heal the relatinship. Remeoving you and the children out of the home temporaily will help create that space and maybe she will realize what she is losing and get the help that she needs. If you keep pursing her, it sounds like you will drive her away even farther than she currentlyis and could create additional probelms for you and damage your children even more than what she already has done to them.<BR>Finally, maybe she hasn't left the house because she feels she deserves to stay becasue of your actins that might have undermined your marriage to the point where she feels no other option but to divorce. This would explain why she appears to be happy when she is with the children. As for your final statement, "she is killing you" I would pose the question, what is killing you, her being happy by ending the marriage ending, losing the one who you love an dcherish and want to spend the rest of your life with making her happy, or becoming a divorcee?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am flattered that in your first time on this site you chose to respond to one of my postings. I don't have much time to respond right now but her emotional problems are not so severe that I can take the children out of their present situation, she is under medication.<BR>I regret any uncongruancies in my previous postings however this is an extremely emotional time for me right now and the emotions of the moment may rule what I write.<BR>Finally I think all of the things you suggested are what is presently "killing" me and I hope that emotion is rational.<BR>I am seeking God's will in everything and my sincerest prayers are for my wife drawing close do God again and us reconciling. I hope you will pray for that end with me.<BR>Joe<BR>

Dear Billiam,<BR>If your friends sent you here because you might learn something then I hope you learn that not everybody would respond to what you said to Joe the way Joe did.<BR>I was so blessed by his humble responce.<BR>If you had said all those things to me I would have been crushed. Most of us come here to be prayed for and encouraged. Not judged. All I know is I came away from what you said to him, very discouraged and down.<BR>But fortunately because of Joe's humble and gracious responce, my faith in human kindness was restored and went away encouraged once more. He's a great guy and I will be praying that Joe's wife's recognizes the changes he's making and returns to him. It goes without saying all of us feel some responcibility for the pain we've gone through. Are you speaking from experience?<BR>I don't mean to be judgemental myself either. I'm just letting you know how what you said affected me.<BR>ONTHEMEND

I think leaving her to give her space is bad advice. No where in the Bible will it ever give advice to leave a marriage to make it better. That would give the evil one a bigger playing field. Keep up plan A and prayer.

Dear Billiam,<BR>I apologize for my defensiveness. It's something the Lord is working on me about. <BR>We do give advice here as well but it is generally given thoughtfully and hopefully in love and from experience and in line with the Scriptures and Dr. Harley's wisdom from the experiences of many others.<BR>I hope you will except my apology.<BR>I do agree with Very Hurt that to encourage leaving generally does more harm than good. We have a much better oportunity to influence our situation with them in the house than out. There are situations when it's necessary but these days it seems to be the norm instead of the exception and I know that's of Satan. They must really search their hearts for the Lord's will in that one.<BR>I've learned a ton from Dr. Harley Billiam and of course from the Lord. And although it may not seem like it judging from my last post, I HAVE learned alot about tactfullnes and am in the process of learning "to let my gentleness be evident to all" Philipians. I have a LONG way to go. I'm stubbing my feet as I go as you can see. Ha!!<BR>Again, sorry.<BR>God bless us and continue to teach us Your ways, Amen<BR>Love in Christ,<BR>ONTHEMEND

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONTHEMEND:<BR><B>Dear Billiam,<BR>I apologize for my defensiveness. It's something the Lord is working on me about. <BR>We do give advice here as well but it is generally given thoughtfully and hopefully in love and from experience and in line with the Scriptures and Dr. Harley's wisdom from the experiences of many others.<BR>I hope you will except my apology.<BR>I do agree with Very Hurt that to encourage leaving generally does more harm than good. We have a much better oportunity to influence our situation with them in the house than out. There are situations when it's necessary but these days it seems to be the norm instead of the exception and I know that's of Satan. They must really search their hearts for the Lord's will in that one.<BR>I've learned a ton from Dr. Harley Billiam and of course from the Lord. And although it may not seem like it judging from my last post, I HAVE learned alot about tactfullnes and am in the process of learning "to let my gentleness be evident to all" Philipians. I have a LONG way to go. I'm stubbing my feet as I go as you can see. Ha!!<BR>Again, sorry.<BR>God bless us and continue to teach us Your ways, Amen<BR>Love in Christ,<BR>ONTHEMEND</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I appreciated you defending me and apology to Billiam. I also appreciate that you seem to understand the great hurt and emotional turmoil all this is. My 15 year old daughter seems to be emotionally bonding with my wife now and I can't understand that either.<BR>Just today it occurred to me to look at this as a kinda of death. We all have some apprehension of death yet as Christians we know things will come out great on the other side. I guess that is how I can look at what is happening right now. What I am going through is dreadful yet I have begun to believe that things will be okay (whatever okay involves) when I am on the otherside of all of this.<BR>Thank you for the kind words in my defense.<BR>Joe<P>

Joe, you are a true humble man of God. No party to any marriage is totally innocent contrary to popular belief. I have made many mistakes along the way in my marriage. I could hold onto the thought that none justified my wife leaving or wanting a D but instead i choose to allow God to heal my flaws while He does the same for my wife. <BR>I do understand that you are under a great amount of pain and anguish right now. I woke up one day and said life was going to be a living hell for the rest of my days and i hope God cuts them short. I believed that for about 2 years and felt it. Im on 3 years seperation and God pulled me through not only how i felt, but has reached my wife and we are on our way to restoration. <BR>The best advice i can give you Joe is stay close and humbled before the Lord and He will carry you thru this and also change your W heart. He changed my W heart and she had about as hard as a heart as they come. <BR>Dear Lord , i pray you continue to give my brother Joe strenth to make it the rest of the way and that you draw nearer to him wiith your peace and comfort. Lord, give Joe encouragement during those times when he wants to give up.<BR>I lift Joes W up to you that you would reach her heart and turn her back to you Lord and to her husband. Teach us Lord how to forgive as you have forgiven us so many times and many more to come. In Jesus nname, Amen<BR>Mark

Sounds as if she is a selfish person trying to make herself look virtuous. WWJD?? Tell her the cold hard truth - in love. Tell her that her actions and choices mean that the house is no longer her home, and that she is choosing to take herself out of the family. Therefore, she has to find other accomodations. Become a man, man! If she doesn't move out after this request, give her 2 more weeks, and then put her things in a storage unit, pay for one month's rent on it, tell her where it is. If the children question your actions, let them know that their mother is like the prodigal son who wants to go out on her own, and that she will have to learn what the consequences are. And don't let her back into your life until she comes to you and says "I have sinned against you and against God - I don't deserve your mercy and forgiveness, but I am asking for it." And then these are the only words you should take into account - after that, discern whether or not she has changed by her actions.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trutuyu:<BR><B>Sounds as if she is a selfish person trying to make herself look virtuous. WWJD?? Tell her the cold hard truth - in love. Tell her that her actions and choices mean that the house is no longer her home, and that she is choosing to take herself out of the family. Therefore, she has to find other accomodations. Become a man, man! If she doesn't move out after this request, give her 2 more weeks, and then put her things in a storage unit, pay for one month's rent on it, tell her where it is. If the children question your actions, let them know that their mother is like the prodigal son who wants to go out on her own, and that she will have to learn what the consequences are. And don't let her back into your life until she comes to you and says "I have sinned against you and against God - I don't deserve your mercy and forgiveness, but I am asking for it." And then these are the only words you should take into account - after that, discern whether or not she has changed by her actions. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I appreciated your advice and you don't know how much it would relieve me for her to just leave. However my growing in knowledge and grace is an ongoing process and even since I made this posting about "How can she be so cheerful?" I have become convinced that I must stay and it would be wrong for me to encourage her to leave.<BR>If is is God's will for us to stay married, and it is, if I encourage her to leave I will be doing wrong and if I even suggest that she leave I will be suggesting she go against will of God. How can I do that? I have just come to this conclusion.<BR>In the meantime my life will be very difficult. I said in a previouse response that I kinda view my situation like death. Even Christians have apprehension about dying yet we know things will come out great on the other side. I believe that of this situation. Right now I am walking through the valley of the shadow of death (kinda figuatively speaking). When I get through things will be great.<BR>In the meantime however I would appreciate your prayers.<P>Joe<BR>

Dear Joe,<P>I think you are being the bravest a man can be and there is nothing more difficult than living with someone who pretends he/she isn't married anymore. I think you are doing GREAT and I hope and pray that you are able to continue as you are.<P>My husband wants to come home once a wk and every two weekends to stay with my daughter and I'm DREADING it. I can't seem to be nice at all. I am feeling madder than before, actually. So to me you are really incredible, an inspiration and I wish you all the best.<P>Dear Jesus, Please help Joe to continue loving his wife and help her to desire their reconciliation in Your name. Lord, please fix all of our marriages and help our spouses and us to convert our hearts to You more and more each day. I ask this in Your Powerful and Merciful name: Jesus Christ. Amen.<P>

Joe,<BR>I was truly amazed at the responses to my note. It was not my intent to offend, or cause you additional hurt in any way, and if I have, please forgive me, I'm truly sorry. The following paragraph I omitted because I felt my last response was too long.<BR>"Just to let you know, I'm divorced, and am now just starting to pick up the pieces of my life. I never thought I'd be one of "those people" a divorcee. I will state that my wife had an affair and I caughther, but with several years of perspective behind me, I realize that the affair was just a symtom of a marriage that had gone bad.<BR>As you see Joe, I am one of those, a divorcee. My attempt was to get you thinking about how you ended up where you are and the options that are avaiable to you. I do understand the pain you're in and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. I know that the only acceptable reason for divorce is adultry, per Jesus's words, and I had the poor timing of coming home from a business trip a day too early and literally walking in on her and her friend.<BR>This I know from experience, right now is not the time when you are able to think clearly and rationally, but at the same time, THIS is the time when you need those skills the most. I would advise, yes, this is advice, that you find a Christian Counselor and be brutally honest with them about how you contributed to the demise of your marriage> I would make sure that I had complete trust in that counselor and then follow their advice to the letter. The counselor is in a much better position to give you advice on how to save your marriage if there is any chance of it being saved.<BR>I would assume by your ealier statements that you are not in the same position as was in wit my spouse committing adultry, so I would assume that there is a chance to save your marriage. Joe, I know that you are under a great amount of stress at the present time and are doing the best you can with what you have and that is why I suggest that you seek the help from a counselor, and I would also encourage meeting with your Pastor on a weekly basis for guidance and support. He will be able to additinal spiritual support and some advice on how to be the Godly head of the house, even during this time. I'm sure that you want Christ to shine through all that you do as an example to your children and wife.<BR>Enough advice, but I know what helped me through my time and in hindsight, the advice I received helped me keep the faith, grow in Christ, and set a proper example to the children in my home.<BR>God showed me that I am His child and that He wouldn't leave me. He showed me that in His eyes I was not a failure but a person who lives in an imperfect world filled with God's grace and understanding. God has shown me that this world is filled with things that are not His will, a result of living in an imperfect world corrupted by sin. God put in place the laws that govern this world and each time the law is violated consequences occur. Sometimes we are the violators and many times we are not, but we experience the results just by living in a fallen world. Bad things do happen to good people and that's not fair, but it is life. One day, after death, we will finally see from God's perspective this world, and our eyes will be opened for the first time and will see this world from His perspective. I remember the first time I went to a pro football game and how amazed I was at what I saw. All my life I had watched foootball on T.V. and couldn't beleive how much of the game I missed when I finally saw it from above in a stadium. I finally could see the whole whole play open up right before my eyes and I was totally amazed out how much of the gave I missed watching it on T.V. I believe God sees the whole play, but we only see in part.<BR>One fianl thought Joe, we are on a journey, and many times we have hopes dreams and an a entire perspective of how our life should be. One day something happens, our life is turnded up side down, that is the time that we learn who God is and His unconditional love for us. Life is the journey, not the destination, that's death and eternal life. During this journey we are the eyes, feet, and habds of Jesus and we may be the only representation of Jesus that people will see. Jesus said we are the salt of this world and that is why we are still here. God has not given up on this workd or on His creation, but has chosen to use people. God has put people in your life to help you during this time of sorrow and need, allow them to help you and in so doing honoring what God has chosen them to do for you. One day, God will need you in that very same way.<BR>Joe, May God be with you and help you with His grace and love

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by billiam1:<BR><B>Joe,<BR>I was truly amazed at the responses to my note. It was not my intent to offend, or cause you additional hurt in any way, and if I have, please forgive me, I'm truly sorry. The following paragraph I omitted because I felt my last response was too long.<BR>"Just to let you know, I'm divorced, and am now just starting to pick up the pieces of my life. I never thought I'd be one of "those people" a divorcee. I will state that my wife had an affair and I caughther, but with several years of perspective behind me, I realize that the affair was just a symtom of a marriage that had gone bad.<BR>As you see Joe, I am one of those, a divorcee. My attempt was to get you thinking about how you ended up where you are and the options that are avaiable to you. I do understand the pain you're in and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. I know that the only acceptable reason for divorce is adultry, per Jesus's words, and I had the poor timing of coming home from a business trip a day too early and literally walking in on her and her friend.<BR>This I know from experience, right now is not the time when you are able to think clearly and rationally, but at the same time, THIS is the time when you need those skills the most. I would advise, yes, this is advice, that you find a Christian Counselor and be brutally honest with them about how you contributed to the demise of your marriage> I would make sure that I had complete trust in that counselor and then follow their advice to the letter. The counselor is in a much better position to give you advice on how to save your marriage if there is any chance of it being saved.<BR>I would assume by your ealier statements that you are not in the same position as was in wit my spouse committing adultry, so I would assume that there is a chance to save your marriage. Joe, I know that you are under a great amount of stress at the present time and are doing the best you can with what you have and that is why I suggest that you seek the help from a counselor, and I would also encourage meeting with your Pastor on a weekly basis for guidance and support. He will be able to additinal spiritual support and some advice on how to be the Godly head of the house, even during this time. I'm sure that you want Christ to shine through all that you do as an example to your children and wife.<BR>Enough advice, but I know what helped me through my time and in hindsight, the advice I received helped me keep the faith, grow in Christ, and set a proper example to the children in my home.<BR>God showed me that I am His child and that He wouldn't leave me. He showed me that in His eyes I was not a failure but a person who lives in an imperfect world filled with God's grace and understanding. God has shown me that this world is filled with things that are not His will, a result of living in an imperfect world corrupted by sin. God put in place the laws that govern this world and each time the law is violated consequences occur. Sometimes we are the violators and many times we are not, but we experience the results just by living in a fallen world. Bad things do happen to good people and that's not fair, but it is life. One day, after death, we will finally see from God's perspective this world, and our eyes will be opened for the first time and will see this world from His perspective. I remember the first time I went to a pro football game and how amazed I was at what I saw. All my life I had watched foootball on T.V. and couldn't beleive how much of the game I missed when I finally saw it from above in a stadium. I finally could see the whole whole play open up right before my eyes and I was totally amazed out how much of the gave I missed watching it on T.V. I believe God sees the whole play, but we only see in part.<BR>One fianl thought Joe, we are on a journey, and many times we have hopes dreams and an a entire perspective of how our life should be. One day something happens, our life is turnded up side down, that is the time that we learn who God is and His unconditional love for us. Life is the journey, not the destination, that's death and eternal life. During this journey we are the eyes, feet, and habds of Jesus and we may be the only representation of Jesus that people will see. Jesus said we are the salt of this world and that is why we are still here. God has not given up on this workd or on His creation, but has chosen to use people. God has put people in your life to help you during this time of sorrow and need, allow them to help you and in so doing honoring what God has chosen them to do for you. One day, God will need you in that very same way.<BR>Joe, May God be with you and help you with His grace and love</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is my second attemp to respond to your response. The first time I tried something happened to my computer and it got blanked out.<BR>I am doing what you suggested as to meeting with my pastor. Last night my wife was VERY hard on me. I spoke to a friend of her mother, asking her to make some impact on my wife's mother about the terrible effect a divorce would have on my children. This person assured me that she would not tell my mother-in-law that I spoke to her. So much for the assurance. I spoke to a pastor who was a mutual aquaintance of this person and he called this person a person of principle who would stand for what is right. The pastor didn't recommend that I talk to her however. She told my mother-in-law everything I said, who of course told my wife. Some of the things I told her were negative about my wife (I told her about my wife's eating disorder) but I told her those things to show her that I reacted poorly to my wife's problems because I didn't understand the severity of them.<P>I know some people would definitely believe what I did was wrong, I don't. I am trying to enlist help anywhere I can and I don't believe that is wrong. I am have become familiar with every scripture implying that I not talk about my problems to others, but I believe saving our marriage is more important than anything. Right now there doesn't appear to be any hope however.<P>My wife still insists I am not carrying my part of the financial load I am paying every bill I have ever paid, and it isn't easy with all the legal bills I have had to pay.<P>I asked her why she never discussed the way she felt with me, she said she did. I have no memory of those dicussions. I asked her numerous times over the last three years to go to marriage counseling, not because I believed there were major problems in our marriage but because I realized things could have been better. She claims that I never suggested counseling.<P><BR>She asked my if I am telling people that I (me not her, she has been on medication for years) am on medication. I was on medication for less that two weeks, to get through the end of the school year, and I am not ashamed of that. I have told that to anyone that I believe it was relevant to tell. I even told my mother-in-law's friend that I was on medication for a short time.<P>She accused me of not offering to take my 15 year old daughter any of the places I am taking my nearly 13 year old son. I offered to take her any place she wanted to go this summer, but she said she only wanted to go to the seashore and we spent four days there. My wife and I both see the battle for custody being for my son, because if I can hang in the house for three years my daughter will be out of high school and then my son will have to make a decision with which parent he wants to stay. She is right that I have become much closer to my son than my daughter, but that is because he is more accepting of me right now. My daughter is seemingly bonding more with my wife. My daughter is very weak spiritually and my wife is encouraging that weakness right now (although she would never admit that).<P>Now you know my life. I still didn't tell you the worst about last night. It is still hard to believe this person, who was my best friend and closest confidant just a few months ago, now views me as her enemy. I know God is with me and I have drawn closer to God. I know this is only temporary, but right now that doesn't make me feel a whole lot better.<P>I would appreciate your thoughts and prayers.<P>Joe<BR>

Joe,<P>I wanted to suggest a book to you, it's a really good one!!<P>Loose That Man & Let Him Go! <P>T.D. Jakes <P>ISBN 1-88008-915-7 <P>Take care mate.<P>Plec.

Dear Joe,<BR>As a communication style, in general, women tend to be more dramatic. When we try to make a point, we often use the most drastic case: "You never" "I never". <P>If you want to defuse your wife, I would suggest you NOT try to go blow by blow and sentence by sentence and show her why what she said is wrong or illogical (how often is something really "never" ?) but to understand the CONCEPT she is trying to put across. <P>The concept seems to be that she is upset that you are not paying that much attention to your daughter. This is not about custody but about her protecting your daughter from feeling like her father doesn't love her.<P>Maybe you can say: "I don't mean to pay less attention to her. I guess it's just easier to pay attention to our son because he seems to be less hostile to me" or "he seems to enjoy doing things with me more than our daughter does right now." Then say "Thanks for letting me know that it seems like I don't want to be with her. I really love her very much and I do enjoy her company. I'll try to make it up to her."<P>I think you understand the type of sentence that would work. You don't need to resolve the problem, you need to show your wife that you are listening to her concerns and you care about her opinion. <P>The same goes for mentioning her problem to someone. That is VERY PRIVATE stuff you talked about. I would have hit the roof if you had done that to me and in the past, my husband has spoken to others about my private problems and I was absolutely furious. He thought it was no big deal. It is a very big deal to the one with the problems. It is up to YOUR WIFE to talk about that. NOT YOU. (Except to your pastor, which is different.) The reason is that not everyone understands how common these problems are and not everyone can deal with them as an adult. The very fact that this woman spilled the beans to your mother-in-law is proof enough that it would have been better not to mention it. To how many others will she say, "Don't tell Joe's wife I told you, but..." (That's your wife's worst nightmare.)<P>If you want to soften your wife, I think you have to apologize because you really hurt her by telling others about a problem which is private in nature.<P>I just wonder if your wife has most of all a communication problem with you. Women and men are SO different when it comes to communication. <P>If you haven't already read 10 books on the subject, the classic example is how women share problems because they want sympathy and a shoulder to cry on. We don't want someone to minimize or "fix" the problem with a logical answer. (Which is what our husbands tend to do.) We have probably got 20 logical answers up our sleeves but that doesn't help us feel better. Sympathy does - I don't know why. That's just one of those things.<P>If you say: "I'm sorry you're feeling like this" or just agree about whoever she's complaining about, you will make her feel better. If you try to give advice to fix it quickly, she's going to get mad. I can pretty much guarantee that.<P>Now here I am, giving advice! But I just wanted you to think about the fact that most women listen to HOW you say something, not just the words, to catch the real meaning. And men tend to pay attention to the logical sequence of the words and focus on that rather than on the concept we are trying to put across. Know what I mean?<P>You are still far from custody battles - I think you are going to get back together. I bet she wants to. You don't get that mad at someone you don't love...<P>Take care and God bless you.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tryingtohope:<BR><B>Dear Joe,<BR>As a communication style, in general, women tend to be more dramatic. When we try to make a point, we often use the most drastic case: "You never" "I never". <P>If you want to defuse your wife, I would suggest you NOT try to go blow by blow and sentence by sentence and show her why what she said is wrong or illogical (how often is something really "never" ?) but to understand the CONCEPT she is trying to put across. <P>The concept seems to be that she is upset that you are not paying that much attention to your daughter. This is not about custody but about her protecting your daughter from feeling like her father doesn't love her.<P>Maybe you can say: "I don't mean to pay less attention to her. I guess it's just easier to pay attention to our son because he seems to be less hostile to me" or "he seems to enjoy doing things with me more than our daughter does right now." Then say "Thanks for letting me know that it seems like I don't want to be with her. I really love her very much and I do enjoy her company. I'll try to make it up to her."<P>I think you understand the type of sentence that would work. You don't need to resolve the problem, you need to show your wife that you are listening to her concerns and you care about her opinion. <P>The same goes for mentioning her problem to someone. That is VERY PRIVATE stuff you talked about. I would have hit the roof if you had done that to me and in the past, my husband has spoken to others about my private problems and I was absolutely furious. He thought it was no big deal. It is a very big deal to the one with the problems. It is up to YOUR WIFE to talk about that. NOT YOU. (Except to your pastor, which is different.) The reason is that not everyone understands how common these problems are and not everyone can deal with them as an adult. The very fact that this woman spilled the beans to your mother-in-law is proof enough that it would have been better not to mention it. To how many others will she say, "Don't tell Joe's wife I told you, but..." (That's your wife's worst nightmare.)<P>If you want to soften your wife, I think you have to apologize because you really hurt her by telling others about a problem which is private in nature.<P>I just wonder if your wife has most of all a communication problem with you. Women and men are SO different when it comes to communication. <P>If you haven't already read 10 books on the subject, the classic example is how women share problems because they want sympathy and a shoulder to cry on. We don't want someone to minimize or "fix" the problem with a logical answer. (Which is what our husbands tend to do.) We have probably got 20 logical answers up our sleeves but that doesn't help us feel better. Sympathy does - I don't know why. That's just one of those things.<P>If you say: "I'm sorry you're feeling like this" or just agree about whoever she's complaining about, you will make her feel better. If you try to give advice to fix it quickly, she's going to get mad. I can pretty much guarantee that.<P>Now here I am, giving advice! But I just wanted you to think about the fact that most women listen to HOW you say something, not just the words, to catch the real meaning. And men tend to pay attention to the logical sequence of the words and focus on that rather than on the concept we are trying to put across. Know what I mean?<P>You are still far from custody battles - I think you are going to get back together. I bet she wants to. You don't get that mad at someone you don't love...<P>Take care and God bless you.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I appreciate your response and your insights. There obviously has been a major communication problem. She has been thinking about divorcing me for years, and I never knew, she never told me.<BR>The damage I did by speaking to people who let what I said get back to my wife was quite severe. As of right now, she has NO desire to get back together or really have anything to do with me. <BR>I brought up my wife's eating disorder not to criticize my wife but to show that my failure to sensitively react to her problem caused more problems and possiblly make her disorder worse. She didn't get to hear that part though.<BR>I too am amazed at the level of anger she has toward me. She was even insisting that I let people know I am on medication, when I am not on medication and if I was on medication I would not be ashamed. I think the fact that I have been been calm makes her think I must be on something infact she has even said that she thinks I must be on something. The something I am on is the power and calmness of God. My point is who even cares whether I'm on medication or not.<BR>I do hope your are right about the "you don't get that mad at someone you don't love" part.<P>Joe<P>

Joe, i agree with Trying. When i was in marriage counseling years ago, my counselor told me something i will never forget. He said men and woman are not compatible. We think differently. We are logic based and woman are feelings based. Its a general rule and i am learning not to take my wife so literally. Its like now she works with me and tries to explain how she feels but she admits she really cant explain it all and that i should just listen and go about our day, even if she says something that doesnt seem right or make sense. You wont be able to figure out your W. The best you can do is trust God to change her heart and allow Him to also work on yours. Let the rest of it go. It will take a while. Dont ask how long it took me... God has changed me and my W drastically. He aint thru yet but were almost there. The key is to learn to trust God and pray without giving up. Stand until God moves. Satan will continue to try and knock you over, but just keep standing and walking with Jesus. God still does the impossible. Many dont believe that anymore, or at least dont want to wait on God for an extended period of time.<P>Just a note for Billiam , i dont mean to be rude but this is a place of faith and prayer. Many here have an adulterous mate whom we choose to love and forgive just as Jesus loves and forgives us. How many times have we all been unfaithful to the Lord God? Are we bigger than Him that we dont need to foorgive? Many have been divorced and the Lord restored their marriages. If you want the Lord to restore your marriage and your broken heart, then we are here for you. If not please do not discourage others that still believe God can do the impossible and choose to forgive and love their wayward mates no matter what they have done or are doing.<BR>Mark

lOSTPUP,<P>You didn't offend me with your reply, I agree with you that as the spouse that is innocent, then the choice is yous in deciding about divorce, but that same choice is forfitted by the offending spouse. When I chose to end my marriage, adultery was only one of the contributing factors I considered in making my decision, and with several years behind me, I beleive I did the right thing for everyone involved. If I had any inkling of a chance to save my marriage I would have worked on saving it, but with what I knew and good avice from my pastor and counselors, I proceeded with divorce proceedings. I am not a quitter, but felt that this was the right thing to do under the circumstances I was living. I have alway attempted to fight for what I believe is right and good in the sight of God. I am far from perfect, but each day God teaches me His grace, kindness, and love. Yes, the bible states that God hates divorce, but I would say that God hates marital infidelity more and that is why He stated that as the only reason for divorce.<BR>I will also state that one night stands would not fall under the same guidelines as an adultious relationship. I will also state that for all of you who have chose to stay and fight for your marriage, I take my hat off to you and you have my prayers. But in fighting for you marriage, seek good counsel on how you fight for your marriage because if you don't apply the principles God has put in place then your fight will be in vain, and or cause you additional needless pain.<BR>A good starting point for the person who has defiled the marriage would be confess their sins to their spouse, andanswer any questions honestly and openly that they might ask. This confession should be given without excuses, or attempting to minimize their actions, accepting full responsibility for their actions with a willingness to also accept the consequences of their actions.Finally, the spouse must go to the elders of your church and tell them and ask for help in being held accountable so that you won't fail again.<BR>I beleive that the offended spouse has the right to wait and see if your spouse is truly repentant by seeing a change in their spouse and actions. By faith we must require a change in order to rekindle the marriage or the marriage will not be heal and become a healthy marriage with God at the center.<BR>Yes, what I have stated is tough, but if you really love your spouse and want the marriage to work, then you will do what is necessary to rebuild the trust and honoer that was removed. the purpose of honoring requests is to show your love, determination, and commitment in restoring your marriage relationship. Asking for forgiveness is your launching point and means nothing without action.<BR>Yes God uses the marriage relationship as an example of our relationship with Him. We fail God and God forgives and takes us back. But God tells us to repent, i.e. turn and go the opposite way, when He takes us back to Himself. But when we sin, there are earthly consequences for our sins against God's laws and principles. We are not set freee rom those consequences, but we are set free from God's ultimate consequence, being seperated from Him for eternity. The earthly consequences are exactly why God gave us instructions on how to live our lives, they are for our benefit, not just to make life boring. They are to help us live in peace and harmony with others.<BR>I take my hat off to all of you who are persevering through marital infidelity and I pray that you will have success. I beleive what you are doing is good and just before God. I also believe tht God gave us a free will and that He will not force His will upon anyone. If your spouse has chosen to end the marriage you have no shame, but are free to serve God and bring Him glory. God will bless you and open new doors in your life. This is what God has done for me. Each day I thank Him for all He's done for me and look for new doors He has opened.