ll and s&c,
Again, you are God's messengers. Thank you for your words of inspiration. The two things that come to mind are "It is always darkest before the dawn." and, the Parable of the virgins waiting for the bridegroom (half of them did not bring enough oil for their lamps).

I do feel I might be close to something because the enemy is baragin me with thoughts after my dental sugery yesterday (wierd evil dreams and thougths), and today a strange thought in church during mass. He is hving a field day with me because I am close to something ?!?!? He is making me very edgy, bringing out emotions of anger with the children at their slightest misbehaving.

I am praying for Marie and for myself. Today was the Feast of the Holy Familly in church, so i know Satan wants to break up this family because he'll get a non-believer to stay that way; ruin a marriage (God's sign of love on earth); and sway a believer away from God. Well the last one he will NEVER do. Not because of my own inner strength, but because I am a Child of God.

Thanks for your friendship and fellowship,
Your Brother in Christ,
ttsmm

We need to live by faith. Faith is the evidence of things which are not seen. When things get difficult don't give up because your faith is going to be tested every step of the way. When we don't see anything changing we think we may as well give up. Don't fall into this trap. I have many times. If your wife says something that you don't agree with, hold your peace. The enemy uses strife to cause division and confusion. Satan is the one that wants to destroy our homes. Our husbands and wives are saying and doing many ungodly things right now. Our spouses are not our enemies. I have had a hard time keeping my mouth shut when my husband would say or do something I didn't like. God has told me over and over to keep my mouth shut. "A husband is won without a word." I must have a quiet and gentle spirit. I try hard to be this way but that is not good enough. I would tell my husband that I had changed and then react in the flesh to what was going on around me with arguing and threatening. I would make up my mind that I would never do that again, then the next time I would see him he would say something that I didn't like and it started all over again. What I am trying to say is we have to keep our faith even when we see nothing changing or we think nothing is changing. It is hard I know, I struggle all the time, and I don't know why, because God will do what He says he will do. I know it is hard but we have to stop looking at the circumstances.

Thanks cheryls,
I think I just need some more support this week. It's funny, I have no idea where alll my faith wnet, but the enemy jumped right in and boy he did take me for a ride.

This is my last posting for tonight, until I wake up at 2-3 in the morning (as usual) and start the restoration post.

Two last things. I was loud and rude with a pharmacist today, because I was trying to obtain all my prescription records for the year for tax purposes. I was told I could NOT have my wife's (HIIPA rules). That s*cks. It is my insurance, but I am not permitted to have the info because it's her privacy. Therefore, my wife could be using birth control pills, but I am not allowed to know. Or she could be taking cancer meds, but it is none of my business. Or, they might be abusing meds. With the birth control I know she isn't because she took care of it after our son was born. But for any couple out there, this info would be important in marriage counselling (or divorce), but the health industry and our wonderful government say it is NOT our business of what our spouses are taking. "Hell in a hand basket."

Secondly, when I went into our bedroom tonight, while she was at work, I saw our wedding picture (wallet size) with her day planner. I wonder why it was out? I will try to look at it as she was thinking about us. Pray to keep the enemy from thinking differently.

God's Grace,
ttsmm

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

Devote yourselves to prayer with an alert mind and a thankful heart.

Colossians 4:2

Persistence demonstrates our faith that God answers our prayers. Faith shouldn't die if the answers don't come immediately, for the delay may be God's way of working his will in your life. When you feel weary in your prayers, know that God is present, always listening, always acting-maybe not in ways you had hoped but in ways he knows best.

Have you grown tired of praying for something or someone? Keep at it!

I tried to go and see my husband three days this past week. They told me at his work that he was out sick. All I could do was to get back in my car and go home. I couldn't go to his home to see how he was or call him either. I got angry because he didn't call me and let me know he was sick. All I could do was worry about him. I said to myself "The heck with him, that I wasn't going to try and find out if he was well or not. I felt in my heart the Lord telling me to go tomorrow and try and find out if he is back at work yet. Please pray that I will have a quiet and gentle spirit towards him if I get to see him.

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Cheryls ]</small>

Trying - I wanted to offer some encouragement this morning. God is not through with you yet. His plan is for you to be healed. This life is not always fair, is it? Check out John 16:33 for the Lord's answer. Hang in there!

Your comment about the Privacy Act is absolutely correct. I can't access my W's records, yet, unless it's by court order. I fully intend to request these records when our case comes before the judge. I believe I will find out some pieces of her puzzle in these records. Have you consulted with an attorney yet? I hated to bring a lawyer into my situation and I held out as long as I could. When she filed for D I was left with no other option. Keep your chin up and God bless!

Trying,

You said you don't need anti-D's since you came back to God. I fell for the statement that Christians don't get depress if Christ is really in them. But there is a difference between being depressed and having depression. Depression is a chemical imbalance and you need meds to treat. I tried to go without meds for a while after I gave my life to Christ. I was hard to be around. God sent me a message through someone else one night. This lady of God said to me, God chooses to heal through medication sometimes. I knew it was from God because I had been praying about this very thing. I went back on meds and I do great now.

You said you just need to talk to your wife with T around to keep you form abusing one another. First, you must let God talk to your wife at this point. Going to counseling so that someone can decide who is right or wrong is not good for your marriage. How is this dying to self? God is the only judge and He alone can point out your wife's or your shortcomings. You must learn to trust God with all this stuff.

Trying to convince her of anything or having someone convince her of anything is not trusting God. Trust Him with all things and let Him provide what you need. You are trying to change the outcome of things and this is not your job. The harder you try to get her to "see" anything the worse things are going to get. I know because I have been there and done that.

Please face the fact that you wife is very angry at you. No matter how you see it or explain it or excuse it, she has been hurt and she has put up defenses to keep you from hurting her again. You are not her and you have no ideal how she is hurting. This was very important to my recovery. I had to look at how I had hurt my husband. Weather it was intentional or not didn't matter. Weather it was justified or not didn't matter. It didn't even matter if I understood it or not. I had to learn that I had hurt him greatly. It especially didn't matter who had hurt each other first or the most or why. None of that matters. What matters is that we come to realize that we have all fallen short of God's glory. We have all hurt others many times without knowing it. You must deal with the fact that your wife is hurt and she has not healed.

You say the affair was 5 years ago and she has had over 2 years of knowing about it. SO! You are not her and you cannot decide when she should be healed. I hurt my husband over 6 years ago because I thought I loved someone else. There was no affair not even emotional. It was one sided. I was the only one that felt that way and the other man didn't even know how I felt. Well, my husband has still not healed fully from this hurt. He must heal in his time with God's help. This hurt I cause him trigger all the other stuff that has happen since then. Was he a great husband? No. Did he do his part to ruin the marriage? Yes, But it doesn't matter. What matters was that I had to come to the realization that I hurt him deeply. I had to answer for what I did. I had to make it right. It had to begin with me.

Jesus died a painful death and He had done no wrong. He ask God to forgive those that killed him. Why are we any better than Him? This is not to say your wife has done no wrong. I am sure she has. But, I am not talking to your wife. Your wife is not the one standing in the gap with God for the restoration or your marriage and for your wife's salvation. You are standing with God. You must stand until she comes to God and she is healed of what ever you did to hurt her, what ever the world did to hurt her and what ever she has done to hurt herself, you and others.

Yes, I am being hard on you. You have a lot on your shoulders. The most important thing you have on your shoulders is your wife's salvation. Do want ever it takes to bring he to God. We are His servants. You want to stand before your Father one day and have Him say, well done My good and faithful servant.

Please know that all of this was said out of love for you and your family.

gentle

<small>[ December 29, 2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

gentle,
Thank you. I only took those words out of love (it took a couple of secs to turn off my pride and justification though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ).

I will pray to God on how do I bring her to God? Any mention of God or religion and she goes off. As you see above, she called church "torture" for our children when asking about Christmas Mass. It didn't help thta they were complaining about why they had to go.

I know it is a tough road ahead, and I put my faith in God. Being human, and a man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , I like to see results quickly.

Thanks again.
God's Grace,
ttsmm

<small>[ December 29, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Mr.Miew ]</small>

Need your help again ladies.
Here's the scenario.
I come home and the kids are lively and OK. 10-15 mins later my W comes down the stairs and tells me that the kids are never to go to the gym again. They fought, our eldest (D) hit our youngest (S) and my W was called from her workout. Another mother told my W that she was going to call DYFUS because of this and basically said she was a bad mother.
I tried consoling my W as best I could in our situ, by listening and agreeing and saying that the mother had no right to speak.
My W was infruiated and embarassed by the whole incident and said she wishes she could run away. She left for work screaming, but also full of tears.
I spoke to the kids when she left and let them know how much they hurt their mother (S too young to understand) and that I was very disappointed. I told them they should know better, expecially with the stress mommy is under (our M) and that they are a reflection of her. I let them know the difference between how mom and dad take different things, and that that doesn't mean we don't love them.
As a father, I think I did OK with the kids. Question? What do I do with the W? With her feelings (or lack thereof) towards me, how do I be supportive?

I am going to bed soon, so I probably won't get your answer until it's too late (tomorrow) but tell me anyway.

God's Grace,
ttsmm

I have come to these boards several times in the last few months because I, like a lot of you needed the comfort of another person. I don't mean to sound rude or anything but I haven't gotten a lot of comfort here. I was reading in my bible this afternoon about Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. When He was there he desperately needed the love and comfort of another human being. His disciples couldn't even stay awake. They did not understand his pain and they did not care. I'm sure that I was reading that because God was telling me that I can't put my trust in people. People will tell you that they will be there for you no matter what, but when you need them the most they are not there. Jesus told his disciples that they would all desert him and Peter said "Even if everyone else deserts you, I never will". I have one good lady friend and there are many times I really need to talk with her, but we will be talking and I will be upset or crying or whatever and she will say she has to go to bed or whatever. People just are not going to be there for us. Jesus was betrayed by someone he loved very much as a lot of us here have been. He experienced the same shame and humiliation that we have. The Holy Spirit knew the pain we would feel today. Before I can even attempt to stand for the healing of my marriage, I have to allow Jesus to comfort and heal me, because He is the only one who can. I don't know about any of you but I feel like I have been totally deserted by people and it has been very painful. Jesus will never leave us. I suppose I should have posted this on emotional needs.

<small>[ December 29, 2003, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Cheryls ]</small>

Trying,

Everything is hard for your wife right now because she is angry and hurt. She is confused and doesn't see things clearly. Please pray that the Holy Spirit speaks for you when you talk with her again. Try and agree with her and validate her feelings. Don't push anything on her and offer to work something out were she doesn't have to take the children to the gymn with her. Of course she will just get upset with the children angian no matter where she takes them. She is so unhappy that she blows up over any and everything.

Pray and pray and trust God to take care of this in His time.


Cheryls,

I have felt the saem way myself at times. True we must depend on God and not man. God has put the right people in my life at the time I needed them since I started serving Him. He also allows them to leave me at times. No one knows His plans. We talked about this in a women's bible study class lately. One lady said it always bothered her that she didn't have life long friends like some women she knew. She went on to say that God showed her that He sometimes brings friends in our life for a season. He gives us want we need when we need it. Likewise, He brings us into others lives when they need us.

I have learned that I can depend on my human friends as long as I first put my trust in God. He has been faithful and sent me some wonderful friends that are there when I need them. But, there are times that I get down or upset and need someone and cannot get anyone on the phone or find them at home. I have learned that at these times God is wanting me to be alone with Him.

This is the perfect place for you to post. We have all been in the wilderness at one time or another. We have all been betrayed or let down by someone we believed cared about us. You are right Jesus will never leave you. There are times He is all we have to hold on to and I believe this to be part of His plan.

I am thankful that it is this way. I would not like it if I was the one someone was counting on to all ways be there. This would be more responsiblity than I care to have. I am thankful that God has this responsiblity. But, I am glad and willing to serve when ask or lead.

gentle

Gentle

Thank you, you are right, I would not like it if I were the only one that someone was counting on to always be there. I'm sure I was just feeling selfish. I know my post sounded like I expected her to be there for me anytime but I rarely ever call her when I am feeling down. I usually stay to myself. It just seems like when I do need human contact there is never anyone available.

I agree Gentle. I am very fortunate to have a good friend that I always can rely on through this right now. It's funny because every time I'm upset, she seems to either call or stop by. She gets these "feelings" that she needs to check on me. She is not a very spiritual woman, but she knows my inner being extremely well. Somehow, she finds words of wisdom for me that day and gets me to stop crying. I believe God is using her to comfort me. Sometimes she just sits there and listens, usually not offering any words unless I want them. I guess just so she can be a presence there and I can know that when I'm upset I can rely on her to help me through it. My first and foremost person I turn to is God of course but it is nice when you can have some human to talk to about your feelings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
<strong> Another mother told my W that she was going to call DYFUS because of this and basically said she was a bad mother.
I tried consoling my W as best I could in our situ, by listening and agreeing and saying that the mother had no right to speak.
My W was infruiated and embarassed by the whole incident and said she wishes she could run away. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trying,
I agree with Gentle. Basically, she is going to be unhappy.....she is going to run into situations where she will be embarrassed and humiliated!

She is outside God's will for her life! A very wise person once told me, "First satan entices us into sin, then he condemns us for it!!" It's his "MO."

Your w is seeing some of the consequences of her failure to turn to GOd. What ever you do, DO NOT attempt to fix this for her!! Yes, you did good, "consoling her" - in a sense. BUT, realize that God is working in her life. God is trying to soften her heart.

I suspect more and more circumstances are going to turn against her, while God continues to "whisper" in her ear. Believe that He is doing this. God hears your prayers. God DESIRES to heal your M. It is the enemy who is trying to keep things upset, to keep her far from God, and angry at you.

My xH is angry, too. He has been angry, almost since the day he left. The first time I talked to him (5 days after he left), he was very upbeat....he was going to "start a new life, get things straightened out.......get a great job.......start over........" Very weird conversation.

Well, anyway, fast forward 2½ years later.....during ALL the times of divorce proceedings, mediations, etc. he was angry! And even now (talked to him in October), he is still very angry! NOTHING works. Everyone is stupid.....he fights with his family.....doesn't talk to most of them anymore (this is the #1 "reason" he left - I hated his family, and he wanted to be nearer to them (?))....he hates his job (has had at least 4 since he left)....and hates the one he has now. Bills are piling up and he can't seem to get his finances straightened out (not a surprise, since *I* was the one who always handled the $$). He has had at least 3 operations (that's all I know of), and at least one cancer scare (prostate).

Doesn't much sound like a better life, does it? I believe God is continually talking to him, trying to show him that this IS NOT the way to walk. Is my H listening? Not yet.

Neither is your W. At this point, all you can do is continue to pray for her. Believe God is working on her heart. Believe God wants to "reach" her, and that He wants to reconcile your M. Believe it, and act on it. Act as if it were already a reality! Do I mean, treat her as a "wife" - asking for SF, etc.? No. I mean, just RELAX a little bit!! Laugh (to yourself, of course) about her circumstances, knowing all this is b/c of her disobedience to God. And laugh (to yourself) knowing that GOD WILL HAVE HIS WAY IN ALL OUR LIVES ULTIMATELY.

You can only run from God for so long, before he "reels you in" from your own self-destruction. As it suits His plans.

That's my take on the whole "gym incident."

Relax, my brother. Look at it from God's perspective. Enjoy the show! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,

Now I know why you asked the ladies about all of this. Each one of them has given you very wise counsel.

God is working on your W and she is fighting. You need to be there to pick up the pieces when they fall. See her though Jesus' eyes. Have compassion for her everytime you see her nad talk to her. Literally put yourself in Jesus' shoes and look at her. You can't help but have compassion. Hold her with your eyes and heart. Then she'll let you hold her with your arms.

Hey I goota go now. I'll check back later.

Love in Christ.

S&C

Trying,

Looks like we all agree. Keep praying and believe God is working.


Cheryls,

God will give you a friend like Standing has when He knows you need one. It took me a long time to learn to be quite also. I had a lot of hurt and anger I had to let go of. Maybe it would be easier for you if your husband had not ever said he would come home to a better you. My husband would not begin to say anything like that. He was never going to be with me again because it was too late I had my chance. I knew that God had to change me. All look so hopeless. I was so desparate. I am not saying you are just as hurt or desperate. I am just saying you have that hope that he has given you with his own words. Maybe, that is something for you to fall back on.

You will get there. Just keep asking God to change you. There has been many times in the past that I myself have said I will never change. I would beat myself up over my falls. It does get easier.

gentle

Gentle

My husband has told me a lot more than he wouldn't come home to me the way I am. He told me the last time I saw him that he loves me and doesn't want a divorce and that he is trying to hold on to our marriage. I don't see where he is trying to do anything to hold on to our marriage, except talk. He's never asked me for a divorce, he says he doesn't want one and never will. I get so tired of all of this sometimes, I want my mind to be clear of it sometimes, just to be able not to think about it, even for one day would be great.

ll,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">just RELAX a little bit!! Laugh (to yourself, of course) about her circumstances, knowing all this is b/c of her disobedience to God. And laugh (to yourself) knowing that GOD WILL HAVE HIS WAY IN ALL OUR LIVES ULTIMATELY.

You can only run from God for so long, before he "reels you in" from your own self-destruction. As it suits His plans.

That's my take on the whole "gym incident."

Relax, my brother. Look at it from God's perspective. Enjoy the show! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I thought several weeks ago. I was reading Job 21:7-17. I wrote in my Bible (and here - can't find the posting though), where I felt God was doing this for a reason:
11/16/03 "I thought about tonight how pleased I am that Marie is ill, i/e. stomach flu. Not because I want her in pain, but because a well man, a happy man, a prosperous man does not come to God...only those who are "ill" and "in need" do.

I remember I got blasted for this by a few of you for these comments. I giess I was right. Sorry just my ego coming up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks EVERYONE for your words.

God's Grace,
ttsmm

Happy New Year!

Just venting.
She wantd to know where my metal box was; she says the C's savings bonds are in there. I look and they are not there. A piece of paper drops out and she wants it. It is a rental receipt from our old apt (many years old). She crumbles it to throw it out. I told her I wanted it back. "Why?". "Because it's mine." A few words later, "You won't throw it out. You hang on to everything. You wnet through my legal papers box, hmmm. That's why I called the police on you. Oh you can't answer that one?" And I kept silent.
??? - I wasn't trying to cause an argument, and she just throws things away because SHE does see the need for them any more. Was I wrong to ask her to give it back to me? Women are always throwing out men's stuff because they don't see the purpose. But it's not YOUR stuff, so why do you all do it?

Next, our D says for us to play SOCCER later. My W hears and asks our D, "How do you play doctor?" She is so bent on the porn issue and being pumped up by her atty and whoever, that she heard doctor and thought I was being abusive to our D.

Next, at our front door has been flowers I sent her (flower of the month). They were there for the last two days but I didn't bring them in; wnated her to handle as she always does. She finally saw them because she has been going out the ftont door (usually goes through the back). She asked when the flowers were going to end? "April." "It's been over a year." "I stop them now." Then she midly wnet into I cna't win her back; I treated her cruely, she doesn't respect me (let alone love me) and she never will. Then she said "Thank God, all men are not like that." She talked about the gym incident again, and how there cruel women out there just as there are cruel men (like you). "You can never win me back (buy me back); that's what you are trying to do and it won't happen. You could buy me a BMW and I wouldn't be impressed. So, stop the flowers, I am only putting them in our D's room anyway. It's showing the wrong message to the C. ... If you continue, I have harrassment charges pressed against you because we are in litigation."
The entire time I nodded my head saying I understood. Menawhile, I prayed an "Our Father" for her, and kept asking the Holy Spirit when to speak. He never told me to, so I didn't.
??? I am cancelling the flowers today. I guess I can't buy her anything at all EVER? Her birthday is at the end of the month. Any advice is appreciated.

Overall, I am please with my reactions, although I feel like I am staring at her. I am unsure of my facial expressions. This is new territory for me, not to help her.
I feel a little bit down, but OK.

Love in Christ,
ttsmm

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
<strong> I guess I can't buy her anything at all EVER? Her birthday is at the end of the month. Any advice is appreciated.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, Happy New Year!

Second, I think it's time for a few 180's. Michelle Weiner-Davis has a list of things you should do to "Divorce-Bust." IN other words, to try to AVOID divorce......I think I would follow this train for now if I were you.

I think Redhat, or some others have written about the 180, even listed a bunch of them somewhere......maybe we can find them and paste it over here.

Finally, I think it's time you started to detach a bit more. She LOVES to "engage" you in a discussion where she will be allowed to "beat up" on you - so to speak. She loves to find ways to put you down, belittle you, remind you of how much you irritate and P*** her off..... Yup, she's majorly angry, all right! You simply CANNOT continue to feed that anger. I'm beginning to think your very presence is fueling it!

So, what to do? Hmmm, I think detaching is the key. Try to completely stay away from her, out of harm's way, in a manner of speaking. That may mean one, two word answers to her questions. NO long-winded discussions.....DON'T get "baited" into a "Let's do it this way," "No, let's do it THIS way, why does it have to be YOUR way...." type of confrontation.

If that's not possible, DO NOT, IN ANY WAY, ALLOW HER TO REEL YOU INTO A FIGHT, CONFRONTATION, OR GIVE HER LEEWAY TO TURN IT INTO SOMETHING NEGATIVE TOWARDS YOU. Is this possible? Or even Christ-like? I don't know. I just know you cannot continue to be "beat up, dragged down, ripped apart, etc." She is having a field day with your emotions, and at your expense, and it's NOT FAIR!!! What would happen if you just agreed with everything she says?

DO I believe Christ would take it, with NO arguing back? Showing her ONLY Unconditional Love? Of course! BUT, You aint' Him!!

I think it's time you protected whatever love is left for her. The way to do that is to NOT let her continue to chip away at your LB$.

Anybody else who wants to chime in here with their own thoughts, please jump in.....maybe I'm way off base, here.....

God Bless,