Victoria wrote:I will tell you what I did in one situation. H denied, denied, and more denied. When I found out who the ow was, I went to her. Very calmly. (This is MOST important. Calm.)<BR>I told her that I loved my H, that I knew he was unhappy, and that I wanted to improve the aspects of our marriage that he was so unhappy about. Looked her straight in the eye and said, "I find it difficult to work on improving my relationship with my H of 11 years with you in the pitcure. I sense you care for him too. If so, please do the best you can by him - let him go so we can work on our marriage. This may be hard for you, but think of how hard it would be if you had been married to him for 11 years. Think of how hard it would be to give him up and a marriage. It is hard for you to give him up after x months, try 11years."<P>Then CALMLY, say "thank you for your time", and walk away. This part is EXTREMLY important. You do NOT want to enter into a discussion with her. Just walk in, ask for a few mintues of her time, say your peace, thank her for the time, and WALK away.<P> <BR> I have a few logistics problems in that OW works with H in a restricted area and I don't know what she looks like. Do you think it would have the same impact over the phone or in a letter?<BR> <BR>What do others think of this as a way to get past denial and into healing? My H will never admit to an affair and Victoria doesnt accuse of one, just says she wants to meet his needs and make him happy. Is it a huge LB? Would it be worth it if it stops the EA from turning into a physical one or just makes her realize that I am a person who loves my H and that I am not going to just disappear? Would it make OW think twice about this friendship she has going with H? I'm getting a little desperate to move past denial.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lora:<BR><B>Victoria wrote:I will tell you what I did in one situation. H denied, denied, and more denied. When I found out who the ow was, I went to her. Very calmly. (This is MOST important. Calm.)<BR>I told her that I loved my H, that I knew he was unhappy, and that I wanted to improve the aspects of our marriage that he was so unhappy about. Looked her straight in the eye and said, "I find it difficult to work on improving my relationship with my H of 11 years with you in the pitcure. I sense you care for him too. If so, please do the best you can by him - let him go so we can work on our marriage. This may be hard for you, but think of how hard it would be if you had been married to him for 11 years. Think of how hard it would be to give him up and a marriage. It is hard for you to give him up after x months, try 11years."<P>Then CALMLY, say "thank you for your time", and walk away. This part is EXTREMLY important. You do NOT want to enter into a discussion with her. Just walk in, ask for a few mintues of her time, say your peace, thank her for the time, and WALK away.<P> <BR> I have a few logistics problems in that OW works with H in a restricted area and I don't know what she looks like. Do you think it would have the same impact over the phone or in a letter?<BR> <BR>What do others think of this as a way to get past denial and into healing? My H will never admit to an affair and Victoria doesnt accuse of one, just says she wants to meet his needs and make him happy. Is it a huge LB? Would it be worth it if it stops the EA from turning into a physical one or just makes her realize that I am a person who loves my H and that I am not going to just disappear? Would it make OW think twice about this friendship she has going with H? I'm getting a little desperate to move past denial.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lora,<P>I have found that as long as H can deny he will. Therefore, no moving forward. The sooner it is out in the open the better. My H denied even the very obvious.<P>As for the logistics, could you go to work one day when your H is out of town, or sick, or playing golf? It is really important to look her in the eyes. (And stay VERY Calm). If H is not at work, go to lobby, ring her up (better if guard has to ring her up - tell him you need to speak with her for a few short mintues.) If you can, do not disclose who you are. But do not lie, or trick her into coming down. If she is busy ask when she next takes a break. Tell her you will be there at that time. You will be nervous. Remember: you are to do all the speaking. Don't worry about what her reaction is. You will speak and thank her, and walk away before she even can react. Keep this in mind and it will help you remain calm.<P>Your H will be angry about this. Ok. Let him rant. Just listen. Do not react. After he rants tell him you are very concerned about your marriage, that you love him, and want to be certain that everyone is on the same page. You understand he is upset, but you also are upset and after thinking about this, you felt is was a most important step that you are sure he would also do if he thought his marriage was in danger. <P>It really helps also if you explain very clearly that you have not done these things (looking out for your marriage) before because you (YOU Lora) failed to understand how far to the neg. the marriage had gone. You would have never even let it go this far if you had understood. Tell him you are sorry that you did not recognize the degradation sooner. Tell him you will work on repairing your lack of understanding on the condition of your marriage.<P>Give him something he likes to eat while you talk. (Cheap trick) My H would interrupt me, therefore, if he is eating ice cream he is less likely to counter my talk with "You never... But what about....balh, balh, balh." He actually listens better.<P>I hope this helps. Do follow Dr. Harley's advice. It is the best I have ever seen, and has given my H and I a lot of hope, when we both thought "third time is a charm"... I called a moving company the day before I found this site. Very close encounter!<P>V.

Lora, although some ow might think about what you're saying and actually back off, I'm afraid that there are many that won't, so I'm not sure of how helfull this might be.<BR>On the other hand, by telling her how much she's disrupting your life and creating a problem for recovery you migh not only be letting her feel more powerfull in the situation, but showing her how powerless you feel and how weak your position is at the moment. I'm not sure that is a good idea either.<BR>TO top that off, if H is still involved in the affair, he would take that as an attack on his "precious" ow, feel like he has to defend her and be even more upset at you.<BR>If there was a garantie, that you would be able to accomplish anything with this, I will tell you "go for it!", but there isn't and the possible negative consequences are not worth, in my opinion.<BR>Please think before you act in this case. If you have reason to believe that she might back off after hearing you, then do it, but if she was too, she would have done it before even starting the affair.<P>ALso very important in my opinion is the fact that you will be taking the power of decision from the hands of your H. He might ressent that, fight it, or throw it at you later.Even if you succeed, do you want to risk hearing later on how much he ressents you for ruining the relationship wiht her? Or that he wasn't ready to make a decision and you decided for him, so it wasn't his choice? Are you ready for him to decide to leave because he feels that you manipulated the situation and/or made a decision for him that wasn't the one he wanted?<BR>I'm quite carefull when it comes to contact with the op. In my experience, and by hearing and reading about many other cases, I feel that most times it works not in our advantage but in theirs. After all, many know about the marriage and start the affair anyway, many know of the efforts to rebuild and continue the affair anyway, and many even after the affair is over, keep trying to restart it using whatever means they can, including using whatever knowledge they have about both spouses and trying to create conflict betwen them. That alone would make me think befoe giving her any information, as little as might be.<BR>DO take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kat1:<BR><B>Lora, although some ow might think about what you're saying and actually back off, I'm afraid that there are many that won't, so I'm not sure of how helfull this might be.<BR>On the other hand, by telling her how much she's disrupting your life and creating a problem for recovery you migh not only be letting her feel more powerfull in the situation, but showing her how powerless you feel and how weak your position is at the moment. I'm not sure that is a good idea either.<BR>TO top that off, if H is still involved in the affair, he would take that as an attack on his "precious" ow, feel like he has to defend her and be even more upset at you.<BR>If there was a garantie, that you would be able to accomplish anything with this, I will tell you "go for it!", but there isn't and the possible negative consequences are not worth, in my opinion.<BR>Please think before you act in this case. If you have reason to believe that she might back off after hearing you, then do it, but if she was too, she would have done it before even starting the affair.<P>ALso very important in my opinion is the fact that you will be taking the power of decision from the hands of your H. He might ressent that, fight it, or throw it at you later.Even if you succeed, do you want to risk hearing later on how much he ressents you for ruining the relationship wiht her? Or that he wasn't ready to make a decision and you decided for him, so it wasn't his choice? Are you ready for him to decide to leave because he feels that you manipulated the situation and/or made a decision for him that wasn't the one he wanted?<BR>I'm quite carefull when it comes to contact with the op. In my experience, and by hearing and reading about many other cases, I feel that most times it works not in our advantage but in theirs. After all, many know about the marriage and start the affair anyway, many know of the efforts to rebuild and continue the affair anyway, and many even after the affair is over, keep trying to restart it using whatever means they can, including using whatever knowledge they have about both spouses and trying to create conflict betwen them. That alone would make me think befoe giving her any information, as little as might be.<BR>DO take care<BR>Kat<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lora,<BR>Kat1 makes some good points. But the decision to speak with OW is for you, not for your husband, as much as he would like it. This is your marriage also. You are speaking to her for YOU. You simply cannot go on thinking there is someone else, and yet pretending everything is fine with your husband. It is possible for a little while, but not months. Also, by speaking to her you are letting your H know how much you are willing to work toward reconcilation. He will never say this directly to you, but it does make an impact.<P>I am concerned that things were going ok, and then returned to one word reponses, and computer time. I just feel this is an action one takes when your mental health, the health of yourself physically, and health of your marriage is in part impacted by someone else. You are not really concerned if she responds. It is your H you are trying to reach. Don't accuse him of affair when he asks why you went to her. Tell him you are concerned for your marriage, and wanted to feel comfortable that you had taken action instead of worrying so much about it. It made you feel better, and if nothing is going on, then ok he should not have a big problem. Be very causal. I think going to Hawaii with this over your head would make you a nervous wreck. Try to get to a place where you can REALLY, TRULY relax. To me that is the best frame of mind for Plan A to work. He knows when your having fun and are relaxed, and it will have an effect on him. Being tense, and wondering if he is calling her will not expedite his feelings for you.<P>I spend a whole ski week with H and family. Plan A without knowing what Plan A was. But always concerned he was on computer, even gave up 1/2 day of sking for computer time! What should have been buliding love bank deposits did not work. Great ski week busted. I got a call on H's cell phone while I was out of town. It was the ow's Husband calling my husband to tell him to back off from his wife! He told me what was going on. Good thing I had the cell. My husband did not even back off, because he thought I did not know. Once he learned I knew, the recovery began.<BR> <BR>P.S. My husband really got into the Emotional Needs inventory. Men like this sort of thing. It is something they can put their hands on. And guess what? Becuase Dr. H says to take a vacation together, my H suggested Hawaii! We are going in April. Amazing. New Year's Eve I was Y2k ready by having communion, and my H was e-mailing her. I think he would still be very cold to me, talking with her if I had not learned and let him know it was not acctepable. But I also let him know I would be willing to do Dr. H's suggestions.<P>We just discussed our Emotional Inventories this weekend. My H is doing things I thought he never would. We have been talking with Steve H. Suggest you do the same. Take care.<P>V.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kat1:<BR><B>Lora, although some ow might think about what you're saying and actually back off, I'm afraid that there are many that won't, so I'm not sure of how helfull this might be.<BR>On the other hand, by telling her how much she's disrupting your life and creating a problem for recovery you migh not only be letting her feel more powerfull in the situation, but showing her how powerless you feel and how weak your position is at the moment. I'm not sure that is a good idea either.<BR>TO top that off, if H is still involved in the affair, he would take that as an attack on his "precious" ow, feel like he has to defend her and be even more upset at you.<BR>If there was a garantie, that you would be able to accomplish anything with this, I will tell you "go for it!", but there isn't and the possible negative consequences are not worth, in my opinion.<BR>Please think before you act in this case. If you have reason to believe that she might back off after hearing you, then do it, but if she was too, she would have done it before even starting the affair.<P>ALso very important in my opinion is the fact that you will be taking the power of decision from the hands of your H. He might ressent that, fight it, or throw it at you later.Even if you succeed, do you want to risk hearing later on how much he ressents you for ruining the relationship wiht her? Or that he wasn't ready to make a decision and you decided for him, so it wasn't his choice? Are you ready for him to decide to leave because he feels that you manipulated the situation and/or made a decision for him that wasn't the one he wanted?<BR>I'm quite carefull when it comes to contact with the op. In my experience, and by hearing and reading about many other cases, I feel that most times it works not in our advantage but in theirs. After all, many know about the marriage and start the affair anyway, many know of the efforts to rebuild and continue the affair anyway, and many even after the affair is over, keep trying to restart it using whatever means they can, including using whatever knowledge they have about both spouses and trying to create conflict betwen them. That alone would make me think befoe giving her any information, as little as might be.<BR>DO take care<BR>Kat<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lora,<BR>Kat1 makes some good points. But the decision to speak with OW is for you, not for your husband, as much as he would like it. This is your marriage also. You are speaking to her for YOU. You simply cannot go on thinking there is someone else, and yet pretending everything is fine with your husband. It is possible for a little while, but not months. Also, by speaking to her you are letting your H know how much you are willing to work toward reconcilation. He will never say this directly to you, but it does make an impact.<P>I am concerned that things were going ok, and then returned to one word reponses, and computer time. I just feel this is an action one takes when your mental health, the health of yourself physically, and health of your marriage is in part impacted by someone else. You are not really concerned if she responds. It is your H you are trying to reach. Don't accuse him of affair when he asks why you went to her. Tell him you are concerned for your marriage, and wanted to feel comfortable that you had taken action instead of worrying so much about it. It made you feel better, and if nothing is going on, then ok he should not have a big problem. Be very causal. I think going to Hawaii with this over your head would make you a nervous wreck. Try to get to a place where you can REALLY, TRULY relax. To me that is the best frame of mind for Plan A to work. He knows when your having fun and are relaxed, and it will have an effect on him. Being tense, and wondering if he is calling her will not expedite his feelings for you.<P>I spend a whole ski week with H and family. Plan A without knowing what Plan A was. But always concerned he was on computer, even gave up 1/2 day of sking for computer time! What should have been buliding love bank deposits did not work. Great ski week busted. I got a call on H's cell phone while I was out of town. It was the ow's Husband calling my husband to tell him to back off from his wife! He told me what was going on. Good thing I had the cell. My husband did not even back off, because he thought I did not know. Once he learned I knew, the recovery began.<BR> <BR>P.S. My husband really got into the Emotional Needs inventory. Men like this sort of thing. It is something they can put their hands on. And guess what? Becuase Dr. H says to take a vacation together, my H suggested Hawaii! We are going in April. Amazing. New Year's Eve I was Y2k ready by having communion, and my H was e-mailing her. I think he would still be very cold to me, talking with her if I had not learned and let him know it was not acctepable. But I also let him know I would be willing to do Dr. H's suggestions.<P>We just discussed our Emotional Inventories this weekend. My H is doing things I thought he never would. We have been talking with Steve H. Suggest you do the same. Take care.<P>V.

Thanks victoria and Kat1,<BR> You both make good points, I think I need to consider this some more. I think maybe it is time for me to call the Harleys and schedual some counseling with them, because I don't know what their ideas are on this denial situation. <BR> Anyone else care to comment?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lora:<BR><B>Thanks victoria and Kat1,<BR> You both make good points, I think I need to consider this some more. I think maybe it is time for me to call the Harleys and schedual some counseling with them, because I don't know what their ideas are on this denial situation. <BR> Anyone else care to comment?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please do call the Harley's. Do explain that you have been doing Plan A since (Nov?). Also the good and then the downturn. I do believe the longer a spouse believes you do not know, and can just deny, deny, deny no progress can be made. They have blinders on. This is just my experience, and certainly the Harley's have more. I wish you well. Order the workbook today, you will need it.<P>V.