Okay...STOP the roller-coaster, I want to get off!!!!! Went to my therapist last night. She is seeing me & H separately now. I told her H keeps insisting he wants a divorce but not because of OW, but because of our incompatability. She told me that was hogwash. He wants a divorce because he feels great right now scr**ing OW's brains out. At least she confirmed that it is the affair that's keeping us apart and not some ridiculous excuse H is coming up with. ANYway. I have been reading "Divorce Busting". I talked to H this morning and he agreed to read it. Somebody out there tell me this is a good sign...anybody! My therapist suggested that if he still refuses to work on our marriage (he offered to come back home to help out with the kids-I said no, only if he wanted to work on the marriage), that I should set strict limits for visitation, his coming to the house (acting like he still lives there, etc) and no contact between us. She thinks he is not facing the reality of what divorce truly is. That it's PERMANENT. That it ruins lives. That if we still love each other (and we do-he says he loves me) we should do EVERYTHING possible to save our marriage. She agreed with Dr. Harley that an affair is an addiction, it involves withdrawal symptoms when ended and they do eventually end when reality sets in. I was glad she agreed with that. I think I am going to write him a letter and let him know everything I am thinking and feeling. But that I am going to start moving forward with my life. I am going back to school this fall. Sorry for the ramble, but I want some feedback from you guys. What do you think? <P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

He shouldn't just move home to help out with the kids. He's not a "helper" he should be a PARENT. If he wants to live separately from you, he should be having the kids on his own regularly--experience the feeling of divorce. He can't live at home with you and "date" the OW.<P>Remember that the affair is a symptom of problems in the marriage or with your H. Then the affair creates its own problems--addiction, withdrawal. My counselor calls an affair a type of self-medication. There are problems somewhere other than the affair. Listen to your H's "ridiculous" excuse, what is he saying? He's probably telling you about needs that have gone unmet, admittedly, my H used terms that upset me a great deal, as in "I don't desire you, Lor", but as we've gone through reconciliation so many times, I realized he was telling me something nonetheless. And he does desire me, he just didn't have the right words.<P>If you got this OW out of your lives but don't work on the problems, there will be another OW, or something else.

Lor,<P>I agree with you. There are other problems, OW is just a symptom (or a band-aid?). I am trying to get him to give her up and give US a chance. He says it's too late and I say it's never too late. I think we have been in a vicious cycle of withdrawing from one another for a very long time because of money problems, family problems, past issues, etc. There are many things that led us to this point and I take full responsibility for the ones I have contributed to. I have told him repeatedly that I am willing to do the work necessary to repair our marriage. We went through regular marriage counseling all last year with no real plan. He cut off contact with OW, but there was no plan given by the therapist to repair the damage done and work on making our marriage better than it was before. He just gave up. I feel like if I had known about this site and "Surviving an Affair" and "Divorce Busting" we would now be well on our way to recovery, but we fell right back into old habits because we had no guidance. Then, guess what, he started seeing the pop tart again. I have tried to let him know that I have learned that just because he stops seeing her that that isn't the only solution. We have to go further with it. He just won't listen now. I feel so frustrated. It's like getting a free airline ticket after you just bought a non-refundable one. He thinks it's just too late to cash in on all this good advice. I can only keep trying to get him to refocus on our marriage. Thanks for the reply. If you have any advice on how to do this, let me know.<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

I just needed to respond...........<P>I would strongly recommend you call Dr. Steve Harley for a counseling session. You need a clear plan of attack and it seems that the last marriage counseling you did did not give you a plan. The only way to save your marriage is to be committed to it, have a Plan, and follow that plan the best you can. There are no guarantees...even if he were to give up the OW, you may not be able to save your marriage. Of course that would be one of the very first things that must happen. The affair clouds his judgement, and unfortunately yours as well because that is first on our mind when ever you think of your marriage. Call Dr. Harley, see what he can do for you. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

I didn't post here because I have no advice to give you, sorry.<BR>I know that my H and I have been in withdrawel for a long time (from each other)<BR>My attempts to fix what I thought was broke went unnoticed and now I can't live that way <BR>anymore so he's going and I'm still trying to fix it!<P>Man don't you wish there was someone with all the right <BR>answers and they were the ones we wanted to hear ....................<P>It's time to pull out that toaster again,<BR>I feel the need to burn some PT's <P>I agree with Sue.<BR>------------------<BR>Peg<p>[This message has been edited by Peggy (edited February 29, 2000).]

Keridwen - I think you have a GREAT therapist, that's what! She sounds right on top of the situation and really committed to helping you and your H save your marriage. Also sounds like she's got a sense of humor. You ought to feel lucky, because therapists can screw you too, like our couples therapist did me, by taking my W's side and refusing to acknowledge that there was any problem around her infidelity.<P>So suggest to your H that both of you follow your therapists suggestions. Maybe you could also work up to having joint sessions again. Since your H's affair is out in the open, at least you can talk about it and see if there isn't something you can do, especially by way of putting the romance back in your marriage so that your H doesn't feel he has to look for it elsewhere. (Probably a pretty feeble excuse anyway, but don't even give him that excuse.)<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

H and I had a very long talk last night. He has agreed to read Divorce Busting and fill out the Love Busters and Emotional Needs Questionnaires. But he is still insisting he has nothing left to work on the marriage with. I told him about living more separately, setting limits and he agreed. I haven't cut off complete contact with him, but it will be limited. One thing he did do that was positive...he apologized for the affair. He said no matter what our problems were, there was no justification for it and it was sleazy on his part. He feels guilty about it. I think he is still in contact with her, though. In fact, I think his guilt about the affair is what made up his mind to move out. He just couldn't deal with it. At any rate, he still proclaims divorce as the answer. He wants us to be very good friends (whatever!). But at least he is willing to read the books and let me look at his Questionnaires. Any advice would be helpful. Insights...am I fooling myself? Is there hope or am I just living in fantasy land?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com