Greetings to all friends on the forum,<P>How do you know when a friendship turns to an emotional affair? Based on your opinion, own experience, or that of the WS, please give me any insight you have on this.<P>Two reasons for the question, one, someone I know , I believe is involved in and EA and I want her to see some responses which I am sure will vary greatly. Another is that I talk to someone regularly as well (not from MB by the way, but met in a divorce support forum a few months ago). I almost wonder if I am involved in one myself, or if it is that way with him of me.<P>I guess I would say in both cases, myself and the other female, feel only friendship. We can talk to our OM very easy about anything, and when I say anything, on my part, I mean anything. In my case, I know OM might have some kind of feelings for me, I don't know to what extent, so I have backed off for his own safety, because I think I am going through a bad stage right now that I will pose on another question when I am ready to take some flames! In my case, those of you who know me, know that I 100% gave up on my marriage, or the hopes of its recovery and have been working on my own personal recovery, so I don't feel I am doing anything wrong, just curious of my situation. With friends' case, she is married and living with her H. Not too sure on all the details of her OM but I know he is probably betrayed.<P>Thanks to all who reply. Prayers to you all, Dana<BR>

I think an EA is happening when you are going to the other person for support and love rather then your spouse.<P>You want to share everything with them and they with you. I think the line is crossed when you do this at the expense of your spouse. <P>You start to take time and energy away from your spouse and marriage to devote to the OP.<BR>You know you are crossing that line when you begin hiding the "friendship" with your spouse, when you stop telling them what you are talking about and doing.<P>So, in your case, I am not sure I would classify it as a EA, but in your friends case it may be closer if not over the line.<P>(((((((Dana))))))))))<BR>Hang in there! I will eya in a bit<P><P>------------------<BR>Cat<P>catfrommb@yahoo.com

Hi lonelymom,<P>I think Cat said it perfectly. Couldn't think of anything else to say, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you.<BR>I admire you for giving 110% to your marriage, and knowing when to walk away. I find that is the hardest part. I think I know that he's never coming back (he's now on ow#2, but SWEARS its a relationship that is going nowhere - hmmmmmmm - when did I hear that last !!!) but I still have not quite given up all hope. I don't actually know why I am hanging on, or what I'm hanging on to, however, we can't help these feelings.<P>I'm proud of you for stepping back a little from your friend, it will give you the space and time to really find out what is in your heart. Good on you. I believe in that wonderful old adage "if it is meant to be, it will be". So old fashioned, but it has really saved my sanity at times.<P>take care of you, have a lovely Sat. night<BR>big hugs for you<BR>Jo<BR>

Jo and Cat, <P>Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify. I stepped back from my internet friend as to not hurt him. He is a wonderful man who deserves better. I have not backed away from my OM that I am interested in. I did "jap" out three times now. All nice restaraunts, concerts and etc. He is too sweet and kind and just what I need, and want in the future. Why couldn't I meet him in a few months? I won't let him get away, but I will try and go S L O W. I am thinking of him right now and feel bad that I am shying from him. I will see him next week (making it 2 weeks since we last saw each other at that point) but wanted to see him every step of the way. Don't know how much slower i can get?<P>I had an eye opening experience yesterday night while out, ran into too many memories. I can't remember if I posted this or not, thats how at a loss I am today<P>Talk to you both soon ladies! Dana<BR>

LM,<P>I your friend cancels plans with her H to be with the OP or if she is uncomfortable showing affection to H while the OP is around you know it is an EA.<P>My H refered to his "friend" and his best friend and confidant. I found that be over the line for me. He shared himself emotionaly with OW and with held himself from me.<P>Caterpiller was right on.<P>Acacia

My H's EA started with being a friend to the H & W. <P>within 6 months his "friendship" with the W was so strong that he sold our home and we moved over 500 miles for him to be closer to her. <P>He kept the EA hid from me. (he knew I would refuse to move if I suspected anything) <P>By the time I found out about the EA, it had been going on for about a year.<P>when did it change from friendship to EA? <P>I think it was when her friendship became more important to him than his marriage. <P>I knew he was addicted when I wanted him to end the friendship and he refused to end it. <P>He sees nothing wrong with the "friendship". <P>But he's made it real clear that if he has to choose between me or her, he will choose her.<P>Keo<BR> <P>

Dana,<BR>Another sign that it is an EA is when anything about the friendship is hidden from the spouse. When time together with the spouse is cut short to spend time w/ the OP, or if the spouse is not invited to be involved.<BR>Hope this helps.<BR>B<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

lonelymom<BR> Hi, my situation is so weird that I usually resist the urge to post on this forum, but I still like to lurk and keep up with all your stories.... No advice......just wanted to tell ya that you are one of my favorite people here and I wish you and your gals all the best.<BR> As far as "OM doesnt deserve me"...nah I dont buy that. I know you mean that in the context of your present circumstances. But heck, all I know is that if anybody ever "deserved" happiness, its you. Follow your heart, it will never let you down. (ok, once maybe) My prayers are with you and your girls.<P>Bill (one of your many unknown admirers)

Hi friends, <P>Thanks again for ALL your replies. I knew you all would be here to help me out. I can see that in my case, I am in NO WAY having an EA (THank GOD, thats the last thing I need!!) I hope my secret girlfriend who shall remain nameless was able to get some more insight to her situation. You all brought up some really good insight to this for her, I am sure.<P>To XMAN - Thank you for the compliment. I tend to have my favorites here too, those who I sign on just to see if they posted, then I like to say hi to all new people and if I have time, I try to make more friends along the way. There are many many people on here that I read all the time just don't always have time to write back to them. I don't know your story, but welcome to MB and if you are looking for support you will find it here. We all have unbelievable stories. I can't believe how we are so alike, yet all so different. Drop me an email if you like, its posted on one of the email threads, not sure who started that, but its out there.<P>Dana<BR>

If she is going to this person nearly everyday to talk to them because it makes her feel good particularly if this is a behavior that is not normal for her. For instance, if she does not talk to her female firends as much as she does the OM ( he has become that.)<P>She should be going to her spause and feeling those warm feels with him. She is discussing things that would be better discussed with her H. I am finding that we look for any excuse to justify our actions regardless of how weak that excuse it. These excuses would never hold up in a court of law.<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

All posts, particularly Cats, hit dead on the money.<P>Here's a few more things to see if a "friendship" has crossed the line into an EA...<P>You W's eyes light up when talking about this "friend".<P>She talks about your marriage and any problems to the OP.<P>They seem to spend an inordinant amount of time together, particularly since she doesn't spend that much time with her female<BR>friends.<P>She seems almost preoccupied by him. (i.e. Makes passing references about what he likes, dislikes, or funny stories about him at odd times).<P>They share private jokes.<P>They try to get together, and you are not invited, or are uninvited if you were aware of the get-together.<P>There are more recent photos of this "friend" in your home than there are of you!<P>Your W refuses to understand or accept the concept of an EA. After all, "it's not an affair if your not having sex", right? WRONG!<P>Any of these sound familiar?<P>How about one last one:<P>They continue to defend the fact that they are merely "friends", nothing more, nothing less. <P>If it took this much explanation, then there's something wrong.<P>--keystone.

I had to take a long hard look at this one. Harley says that anytime you have a friendship with someone of the opposite sex you put yourself at risk. My husband had an EA. At first I didn't know what to call it. For several months he called it a friendship, and because I had male friends I felt it wasn't fair of me to insist he cool it with her.<P>His relationship with her bothered me from the very beginning. He's had female friendships before, and I've been fine with them so what was it about this one that had my intuition screaming. Cat hit on a lot of it. I started by being bothered by the level of intimacy he had with her. He confided things to her that I felt I had to pry out of him. He treated her the way I wanted to be treated. He chose to spend time with her instead of with me. Then the deceit started. There was a big clue Christmas of 1998 when it was real important for him to get her a gift, and he kept on insisting we go visit her. <P>The thing is after experiencing this and reading things here I realize how dangerously close I came to having an EA myself. Before we were married my husband and I shared an apartment with a close male friend from college. Our jobs made it so that I spent more time with this college friend than my husband. We became close. I never classified my relationship with him as anything other than a friendship but I did have very strong feelings for him. One of those if we had been in a different time and place kind of things. I believe now that if it had not been for the fact that my husband and I married and moved 1000 miles away from my friend it could have developed into an affair. Many of those feelings are still there. I hadn't contacted him in years, but the minute I found out about my husband's affair he was one of the first I contacted about it. I went to this friend for support.<BR>Now I realize that contact between me and him needs to be with my husband there.<P>If you want a big ringer I think the minute you come to the conclusion that when making a choice between giving up a friendship and giving up your spouse you choose the friendship you're in big trouble. Not to say any of us want to give up our friendships, but when push comes to shove if our friendships cause our spouses unhappiness and we refuse to find a way to remedy that then the friendship is no longer a friendship.

Thanks for the replies everyone! I can see how this EA can really cause trouble in the marriage. I guess thats why its best to NOT have friends of the opposite sex really. As a couple that goes out with another couple maybe but I have even heard horror stories on that one.<BR>Dana<BR>

Asking when a friendship crosses the line - is that really the right question to ask??<P>Maybe I'm "sheltered" but I have had no male friends since I married.<P>How about we ask, where do you fit friendships (same or opposite sex) into your life? Where do you find the time??? The only time I have (and that is only recently) are the morning hours that kids are in school, and even that is busy.<P>2. Why do you want opposite sex friends?? Even if you don't cross any "lines", why?<BR>When I was single I was friends with a MM. We were nowhere near crossing any lines, but he pointed out something interesting and asked me to "back off". He said we would spend time talking and having fun while he and his w had to deal with so much "real life".<P>I wasn't attracted to him in the least, but we enjoyed discussing books and playing chess. He made a good point!<P>

Well in my case I had alot of male friends before I got married, and I don't contact them much anymore, but I still remember the fun we had and consider them friends. They are mutual friends though. I think that is a big key. While dating we had a group that we hung out with. I recognize the danger though. We've met couples since then who I would say are acquaintances (maybe even friends) and I remember the males names faster than the females. My husband remembers the females.<BR>I think to be safe if you are going to have mutual friends you need to keep a professional distance from those of the same sex. Don't go out to coffee with them unless your husband or wife is there with you. It's easy to apply this to new friends, and a bit trickier to apply to old ones.