Dear Judy,<P>I feel that I must clarify something I didn't in my other post. I do care. I do not dislike you. You came here for answers and insight and that is what has been offered. If my neighbour or close friend were in your position, I would say nothing if they did not request but would offer my opinions IF ASKED. You came here asking, WTD came here asking. We answered. Like all things in life, you are not always going to like what you see. We are all different. If what I said is grossly inaccurate, you can take solace in the fact that it is and discard my ramblings. <P>I would like to share my motivations in wanting to "help" you and WTD; my motivations are faceless to me and I do not know their names. I know that they are two young girls who are as innocent in all of this as I believe your intentions pre-WTD were. They have a dad who has himself said that he cannot imagine not living with them and watching them grow up. They deserve someone who can set an example of what a good husband does and doesn't do, in words and in actions. There have been many threads on the effect divorce/affairs has on the kids. Please read them. <P>These two little girls are kids who have a mom that writes their dad letters asking him to make an effort to rebuild what she knows is a hurting marriage. She cannot do this alone and she cannot do this if you are involved in any way with WTD. They chose each other many years ago, regardless of how young, or how they came to be one, they committed to one another because they believed that they would spend the rest of their lives together. On that foundation, they had children. Please let them rebuild and restore. They need to take a different path, to find a smoother road than they have been on lately. <P>Inasmuch as I didn't include some other aspects of your posts, (the side of you that *knows* what you are doing is wrong) there were others that also left me with the impression that you wanted to skew things in "your favour" that I also omitted. That said, I never said that you were <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> a lying, manipulative, heartless, souless, woman with ulterior motives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I do not believe this at all. I <B>do</B> believe that you are trying to manipulate the situation in your favour. I <B>do</B> believe that you have ulterior motives in being here. I <B>do</B> believe that your feelings for WTD are so intense that it can cloud your better judgement. This is the nature of affairs, of the fantasy that they create. Lust does weird things to our brains.<P>I know that you know that adultery is wrong. I suspect that the ultimatum that you offered WTD is to help alleviate the guilt caused by this - that if he committed to being with you, it would no longer be adultery and you could move on in your life with him. My post comes from my life experience. If you want help, you get help. If you ask for help and then issue an ultimatum contrary to the words you speak and the advice you have sought, your original intentions seem less than sincere. Why would you give him an ultimatum - force him to make a "choice" if you *really* believe that he is best off committing to and working on his marriage, if those are your true intentions? Why would you post that <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> God heals the pain of divorce <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> if this is not what your hopes and desires hold? I do believe that as a Christian you struggle. I offer you kudos for your efforts to seek counselling within your faith - have you continued beyond the one encounter that you mentioned? <P>I <B>do</B> believe that you have much to offer to the *right* person. While you want to believe that he is that person, WTD is not yours to offer your heart to. He made a commitment to another woman, he married her, and they have two beautiful gifts from God that have been given to them to cherish and care for - TOGETHER. Anything you take from their mother, you take from them. <P>Judy, I am sorry if I have come across to you as someone who is "out to get you". This is not at all the case. I do care. I do understand how hard this must be for you, and how much harder it is going to be letting go. Please know that my efforts are/were meant as a sincere attempt for you and WTD to see what you are doing for what it is - a fantasy that at times feels so great that you will do anything that you can to keep it going and avoid anything that will stop it, even (sometimes unconsciously) head games. We all say and do things at one time or another that aren't truly representative of who we are. If your true intentions are to encourage WTD to work on his marriage, then do that. If you *must* have contact, save the e-mail tears, save the ultimatum, encourage him to be with his family. If you truly want to be selfless, then <B>be selfless</B> - do nothing to encourage this relationship - do not <B>make him choose</B> between you and his family and offer ultimatums.<P>If you come here for honest support, you will find it. We are all here to support marriages, this is a marriage building web site. The support offered to you is a round-about way of us supporting WTD's marriage, and has been since day 1 that you posted. <P>If he truly wants help in fixing his marriage, you <B> do </B> know that he is in the right place. The answers he has received have all been in the context of helping him work towards a life of love and commitment with his real life wife. Please do nothing to discourage him from coming here. If you <B>both</B> feel a need to be here, perhaps you could choose different boards and vow to not read or respond to anything the other one posts. Better still, encourage him (and you would likely benefit as well) from the wonderful counselling offered from Steve or Jennifer Harley. They can show WTD just how realistic it is that he can find what he is looking for in the woman he exchanged his vows with. <P>Dear WTD,<P>If this is what you want, to be a living-at-home-dad, not someone who has to shuffle his kids between homes on Christmas morning or for birthdays, showing his girls how they deserve to be treated someday in a committed relationship, then there is a way, a proven way that it can be done. If you want the wonderful intimacy (and even great sex) that you believe you have found with Judy, you <B>can</B> have that with your wife. <P><B>You have to want it.</B><BR><B>You have to believe that you can have it.</B><P>I understand how hard it is to make that commitment when you have know so much unhappiness for so long but it can be yours with much less effort and pain than you would have if you leave without making an honest effort. <P>Please read the success stories. Please call Steve or Jennifer Harley (888-639-1639) to book an appointment by phone. <P>Good luck to you both.<BR>Lisa