My W Emailed me this afternoon said that I said we needed to talk and she wanted to do that tonight. She did not want to go through the "emotional bashing"that we did before she moved out. Well, that is what I wanted also. She moved out 3 weeks ago and we have only talked through email and twice in our only joint counseling sessions. We do get pretty emotional. She says it hurts her to see me hurting like I am.<P>Well, we started out tonight with a nice hug and she petted the dogs who were very happy to see her. We sat down and I asked her about her purchasing a picture to put over the fireplace I just finished trimming out. She said I should buy one because I live here. <P>Then she took the conversation to her wanting to move forward from where we were at. Moving forward meant that she wanted to start planning for us to be apart forever. It seems the OM wants to move their relationship forward. She says she would leave me regardless of the OM but 24 months ago our marriage was strong enough to survive us building (we did most of the work) our dream house. And 9 months ago we were looking for land in Colorado for our retirement home in about 10-12 years. She and I designed and built the house. It turned out great and is worth 4 times the average house in our community. She is very proud of it and she told me tonight she loves it. I asked her why she loves it and she admitted that there was a lot of us in it. <P>I asked her just before she moved out to give this a year or so before we do anything that would destroy all that we build in or 25 years together. We have other property and other substantial material things She agreed without hesitation then. Tonight she cannot wait that long. She says we need to plan to be apart in the next few months. I said for me it was not over... that I love her very much and wanted to give us an opportunity to be together again. She said she was not going to leave the OM and she needed to move forward with that but couldn't do that as long as we were married. It wasn't fair to me, the OM, or her. I agreed that it was not fair, and suggested that she has not worked on reconciling our marriage as she said she would back in early February. She said she broke it off with OM for two weeks. I have substantial proof (she does not know about) that she did not. She said she tried to work on our marriage. I told her it would take a lot more time than 2 weeks.<P>Anyway the conversation escalated with me in tears and her in tears and I asked her to go. She wanted to go anyway so we parted with a big LB. Something I did not want to do.<P>For you that are there or have been there is this the way it works? What if anything should I do now. Below is the email I want to send her tomorrow..Any suggestions with it? Please help.<P><BR> I am so sorry about last night. When you said you didn't want to any<BR>emotional bashing, I assumed that you wanted to talk lighter things. Talk<BR>about things that were going on with D and boy friend , the dogs, my friends<BR>mother who died, one of former employees who died this week, pictures over<BR>the fire place what going on with Ann or her mother, Carlene, your business<BR>or any number of items that could be talked about with out all the emotion.<BR>That is truly what I wanted. I did not want you to go like you did. I am<BR>so terrible sorry for that.<P>I will continue to think about what you said as I have been thinking about<BR>it for sometime. I have had a lot of time lately to think. Cathy I need to<BR>do what I feel is right in my heart and maybe one day I will see things your<BR>way, but I'm not there and I don't think you could expect for me to be<BR>there.<P>Cathy we need to talk about the things above or we are going to screw D <BR>up. We need to be able to talk without the emotion or our daughter is going<BR>to suffer and neither of us want that. She and you are the most important<BR>part of my life. Whether you believe it or not you both are most important<BR>to me.<P>Cathy...I love you so very much that has never changed throughout this or<BR>our marriage. I realize there were times that I hurt you very much and you<BR>need to realize there were also times that I was deeply hurt. But I know<BR>that I have change for the better and right now you don't think we will ever<BR>be together again and right now my heart tells me that we may have a chance<BR>again. I want to give that chance an opportunity.<P>I deeply appreciate the hug when you came in. It was very nice!<P><BR>Love Ya!!!<P>Always!!!<P><BR>Jim<BR>

I'thought I would bring this to the top and maybe some one might respond and help.

J Willy,<P>It's a good... non-<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busting</A> letter. <P>Now... unfortunately...<BR>You can't make her come home... <P>She'll have to do that on her own!<BR>And when she realizes what she is losing usually has much less with wht you do....<BR>...than her own self-realization of her loss and her damage to her family.<P>All you really can do is try to the best of your ability to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>....<BR>...and when it gets just too hard to continue... then <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>.<P>You should definitely read all you can here on the MB sites...<P>I also have a few posts... I made a while back... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011323.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011046.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101</A>.<P>Come here for support.<P>This week in particular has been very rough on a lot of people...<BR>...these cycles of "forum depression"... run about every 2 months or so... as I've seen it. In time... the forum will be more up beat!<P> <P>Jim

JW, I am so sorry for all that you're going through. I do remember what it feels like, you know. <P>Just a word of encouragement.....Last 6/28, my h told me he didn't love me anymore. One week later he told me about PT. 8/5 he moved out . 9/1 he moved in with PT. They opened joint bank accounts, planned to marry, build a house, etc, saw a lawyer about his adopting her little one He said he wanted a divorce, hadn't loved me for a long time, had nothing to do with her (yeah, right!), and on and on. We didn't hear from him for weeks on end, for a while, I didn't even know how to reach him. He never once called our daughter, though he did come by when I got a message to him for a crisis and to hunt with his brother. PT joined him throughout the holidays at all the family gatherings. <P>Now, I'm a Plan A diehard - got a lot of my ramblings on the subject around this place!! I started writing him in November, just news from home kinda letters, and ended with "I love you." (Had to, he didn't call or visit.) Funny sorta letters. I know it seems strange, but I NEVER once, during the entire time, brought up us, our marriage, her, their relationship, nothing. The only thing I ever said was that d was hurting and I tried not to say that very often. Remember, THEY define the lovebusters and talking about us was a lovebuster for him. Instead, I just made sure that I was cheerful, attentive, conversational and that this was a safe, non-threatening place for him to be. And no, it wasn't easy. He'd leave, I'd drop to my knees and sob. <P>Around December, I started getting hugs when he'd come and go. But he'd still say he wanted a divorce (yup, out of nowhere, no conversation about it at all) He started calling....and coming by more often. He started eating with me and d (only if his brother was around, but hey, I'll take anything!) By January, she was livid about the time he spent with us and he was telling me what a witch she was (we NEVER talked about her before once he left). Then HE brought us up!<P>Anyway, as of right now, he's home, we're in recovery, working on month #2. We're happy. He's glad to be here, we're so glad he's here. He promises he'll never ever leave us again. He loves me. Life is good. Bumps here and there, but nothing to worry about.<P>Anyway, I know it seems strange, and you SHOULD be able to talk about not ending a long marriage, but a lot of times, it makes them extremely uncomfortable, ya know? And that makes the time with you ....well, uh, not enjoyable, anyway. You can't show them what they're missing if they dread seeing you b/c you're gonna talk about "us". At this point, educating them, trying to make them "see the light", not give up, well, although it makes tons of sense, sometimes just has an adverse effect. I know it would've with Robert. In my situation, working on me and being his friend was the way to go. But that was for us, not for everyone.<P>Anyway, good luck. Your letter is nice. I couldn't have sent that to Robert, he'd have run like crazy, but it's not a lb at all as far as I can tell. (Unless SHE sees it that way - who knows.) Our ws's tend to be sensitive and have a fair amount of guilt to deal with (even when it doesn't seem that way, it is, trust me). Anything that makes them feel MORE guilt, even unintentionally, is a lb.<P>Hang in there, this is a long hard road. But you have what it takes to travel it.<P>Lori

I sent the email to her and got this one in return. It is the best I could hope for but it does buy time which I think is what I need for EA/PA to die. What dou think?<P>I got your e-mail. I'm sorry that last night ended badly. It's hard to<BR>make "small talk" at this point. I do want to go ahead and look for<BR>another place to stay. I feel like I am putting Ann out so I do need to<BR>know what I can do financially without making a lot more debt that we don't<BR>need. I'd like to be out of Ann's sometime next month.<P>As for Kallie - she's not screwed up. I talk to her on a regular basis.<BR>She's "in love" and she is not focused on us as much as you migh expect.<BR>She wants us both to be happy, but she does not want us putting a bunch of<BR>emotional baggage on her. She is still planning on living in an apartment<BR>this summer before school starts so she has already made that leap. As<BR>long as she knows we love her and that wse will always both be there for<BR>her, she won't get screwed up. She's an intelligent, sensible girl and she<BR>understands a lot more that we think she does.<P>As for the other, I can't stop you from what you feel. I amso sorry I<BR>don't fee the same way. I will back off and not pursue anything at this<BR>time, but I am going to go on and live my life. That means Fred will be in<BR>my life until either her or I decides he isn't. I will be going back over<BR>to Enfgland and he will eventually come here. I don't want to hurt you<BR>Jim, but you need to know that. I have kept this relationship on hold<BR>because I want to do the right thing and because I don't want to hurt you<BR>anymore. But, if you don't want me to move forward with a seperation or<BR>divorce at this time, I won't. But, I want you to know where I stand.<P>I hope we can talk another time and , yes, maybe just talk about regular<BR>"stuff." Have a good dinner with the kids this weekend. <P>I'll be in Chicago the 1st through 5th. I'll leave a number when I get<BR>there for emergency use.<P>Cathy<BR>

Lostva<P>Thanks for the post...its what I need to hear right now. I'm at the start of this and have a tendency to get pretty depresed.<P>I'm glad yours is turning out so well and I hope it continues. I will take lessons from you and try to implemnt them over the next several months!!<P>Love and Prayers<P>J W