Hey Medic (and others),<P>I can see everyone trying to justify (ala the betrayers) dating while still married. Sorry, it just doesn't cut it. There is no justification. Wait until the divorce is final. Wait until you have applied ALL the MB principles to your own life and learned HOW to have a relationship with yourself and others in ways which will not sacrifice the love for yourself or the other person.<P>Yes it is an affair if you are dating while still married, regardless of the status of the divorce.<P>If it is NOT considered an affair, then our spouses affair ceases to be an affair when we start dating because we are doing exactly the same as them.<P>Our spouses felt the marriage was over at some point (before or during the affair) so why is it they are having an affair & we aren't if we date while still married?<P>We need to believe in ourselves & what we are doing. We need to set the example for our children & for society in general. If everyone thinks it's okay to date at some point/any point in a marriage, then what good is marriage? Make it more disposable than it already is? We are standing up for something we believe in (marriage) until it no longer fts our needs or it becomes too tough? C'mon people. Wake up & smell the garbage. What's a few more months until a divorce is final?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Our spouses felt the marriage was over at some point (before or during the affair) so why is it they are having an affair & we aren't if we date while still married?<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The difference is that both parties KNOW it's over when a divorce is pending. In the case of an affair only one party may FEEL that it's over and the other party is completely oblivious to it. That's a LOT different.<BR>

So I guess a marriage is considered a "marriage" when one or both partners are actively involved & wanting a marriage regardless of what is "legal". So why did you get married on paper? Why not just shack up together & call it a common law marriage?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

In my current state of being, I'm questioning why I ever got married at all. <P>

Chris,<BR> I completely agree with you. Also, I think that until the divorce is final, the betrayed's emotions are still on the roller-coaster. Of course, we want a good, loving relationship, but I personally think it's probably the best to wait until the divorce is final and then take things slowly.<P>If I was divorced, I would date, but probably not much, as my belief system does not include sleeping with someone to whom I'm not married. Oh, well, if someone really wanted to be with me, that shouldn't matter, should it?

From the point of view of avoiding a rebound, I agree that people should not jump into a relationship before the divorce is final. for that matter not for a few months after as well. But that's different from avoiding it because some would call it an affair. That's protecting one's self and the potential suitor from future pain.

There is a big difference with dating and sleeping together. Dating, could be going to a movie and dinner. What is the big deal with that? Our spouse is already shacked up with another, and walked away from us, are we to sit here and just mourn forever and ever when both parties agree, the marriage is over? The court system is so jammed up and unless you are rich, the divorce process can take months. <P>I'd like to know just out of curiousity, to those who believe that it is wrong, if you have even been approached by someone else for a date and how you handled the situation. <P>We all have different levels of strength. Some of us are able to pull ourselves together and get a grip and realize that life does go on. We didn't believe our marriage was a piece of paper when we married. We believed our spouse would FOLLOW their marriage vows. But they didn't. So once the vow is broken, if we make a conscience effort to save it, and it fails, we have the choice to live again, and walk away. <P>Seems like we are spending an awful lot of time here arguing about why its so wrong to date while waiting for papers to be drawn up. Lets talk about how we can learn from our mistakes and do better next time, but not cast such harsh judgement just because some of us chose a slightly different path. <P>We are all here because the majority of us were cheated on. Some of those here, an increasing number though, are here because they in fact betrayed the spouse. We all have experienced pain, but we also can help each other and not hurt them at the same time.<P>Peace to all, Dana<BR>

Lonelymom:<P>"Dating" is the equivalent of an emotional affair, IMHO. Sorry to all y'all would-be daters, but Chris is dead-on right here:<P>An affair is an affair, is an affair. If you're married, it's not right. If it ain't worth waiting for the final divorce decree, then maybe it ain't worth it at all.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Well,I don't know.Two weeks after my W moved out to continue to date the OM,she called me up,and wanted to know if I was"dating"anybody,yet.I guess she felt bad that she was seeing someone,and I wasn't.I told her that I was still married,and wasn't going to have a relationship with anyone until we were divorced.I don't really believe in it until you can say you're free to date,with a clear conscience.<BR> --Murph

mercys H<BR> I look in here a lot and injoy it.<BR> I love my wife very much and with all that she did i learned that there was something wrong to a point with me and i started to fix it so i could win my wife back.<BR> But if you dont fix it will hang around and come back again with op so it will never hurt to wait 90 days or final it will help in the long run <P>GOD BLESS<BR> mercys H

Just wondering what you think... if you are separated and WANT a divorce but your w/h is fighting it. It can take (from what I hear) a very long time. If you feel there's no chance in hell (remember we're all different - many reasons why people want to end a marriage, abuse etc) does that mean you are expected to not move on w/your life for a year or two.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>if you are separated and WANT a divorce but your w/h is fighting it. It can take (from what I hear) a very long time. If you feel there's no chance in hell (remember we're all different - many reasons why people want to end a marriage, abuse etc) does that mean you are expected to not move on w/your life for a year or two<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hmmmm. My wife is separated, wants a divorce, feels like there is “no chance in hell“ she will never come back & is “getting on” with her life. So I guess it’s okay in her for her to date? Absolutely not!<P>We all came to this web site because our marriages are/were in trouble. We looked back at when we got married & decided it was something worth trying to save & keep as sacred as possible. Now some are on the verge of divorce & all of a sudden we change our entire value system & what our spouses are doing suddenly becomes okay? Why? Is it not possible to wait the 90 days/2 years until <B>ALL</B> marriage ties are severed with the spouse?<P><BR>What’s the rush?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hey Chris,<P>Nope, I'm not trying to justify anything here. I asked a simple or maybe not so simple question wondering what the view was from the board. I should have stayed with What's your favorite color?<P>I don't need anyones permission to go out, cut the grass or run a red light. I was not looking for posts that would encourage such behavior. [Hey Tim, Go screw her brains out! Make her bark like a dog, now bark like a bigger dog] I don't believe that I got any of that nature. I got responses to the question. Everyone has their own opinion based on their moral and religious beliefs. I got what I asked up to a point. <P>And yes, I did go out with an XGF a few months ago. I told her ahead of time that nothing was going to happen as I was still married. I just wanted female companionship and got it. Some may see that as fulfilling one of my emotional needs. Medic doesn't see it as that. I see her frequently in a Rehab Hospital we service. No, don't even try to say that there was an EMA going on all that time. I felt very dirty after the "date" and told Val. She didn't believe that I went out with someone. <P>We all live our own lives and are accountable to ourselves and depending on your religion, God. I know some have told you that it is time for you to give up on the idea of reconsiliation. It's up to you how you live your life. The same goes for all of us.<P>One size does not fit all. We are not all from the same mold. Harleys methods are good common sense principles, but, D still occur. There are many religions as well. You choose to follow one or none. Life is full of choices!<P>I do have a meeting with Val this Friday to discuss what direction we should travel. She has the papers in hand for over a week and could have signed and sent them back to the lawyer, but, has not. All it takes is her two sig's and 30 days and it's final...legally.<P>I really didn't think that this subject would bring such contraversy or I would have just asked my cats.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Tim

Tim, I wasn’t really replying to you (other than you started the thread). I think I know where you are at with this.<P>I posted it because the general atmosphere of <B>all</B> the forums here have changed over the last few months.<P>We should be upholding our values and telling others to keep strong in what they believe. Don’t change your own values system because “I wanna date, my husband/wife left me, filed for divorce & I need some!” We are not being true to ourselves and it proves we have learned nothing in our own breakups of our marriages. Sure some are gonna fall and it happens. Doesn’t mean we need to slam that person. But it also means they should not come here & try to somehow <B>justify</B> what they are doing. Our spouses have tried it & it doesn’t work.<P><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Me Again,<P>I fear that the season of Spring has hit the board. It is a time of renewal. The birds have come back. The trees are in blossom. Emotions run high. Everyone wants and needs to be loved.<P>I have not and will not forget what I have learned here. I was a rotten, lousy sh!tty H. Repeat WAS. <P>I have made so much personal growth over the last year. I found out about the H part, I was emotionally abusive because of my alcoholism. That is under control and I am in recovery. I have found so much love for my dear Valerie that was buried I could burst. I also am happy with myself again.<P>I am not the most religious person here. I lost my Dad 10 years ago and was mad at God. That and probably because I get to see up close and in person on a daily basis the carnage of human suffering and tragety and can only ask why.<P>I have played Medic for the last 21 years and have seen it all. I have treated W's who were shot by their H. H's who have killed themselves because of their W's. Kids who have hanged themselves because of family problems.<P>Every tragic headline you read or see on TV has had an EMS crew there to assess the patient. How would you like my job?<P>Maybe that could explain my earlier cold behavior and problem with the bottle. Either that or I am a complete [censored].<P>I really tried my best to fix my marriage. Not going to give up until I am dead for two years.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Tim

Chris,<BR>You've said exactly what I thought. And in a kinder way. Something I need to work harder on (my blunt manner). <P>I agree with you completely.<P>To everyone else who wants to date before D is final,<BR>The world isn't going to stop spinning if you wait just awhile. There isn't anyone else of the same sex you could go to a movie/dinner with? It couldn't hurt to tie your self-esteem to something other than the approval of someone of the opposite sex, IMO. Volunteer work, home improvement, your children. The options are endless.<P>I've been approached many times for a date. If it is someone I've known at work, or whatever, there is usually a little probing for information to determine availability before they even ask for a date. Everybody I work with knows that I'm not on the market now. It is pretty easy to head off a direct rejection just by making it clear you are not available. If someone does ask me for a date or outing and they are a nice person, I ask them, "do you mind if I bring a few friends?" Again, not a direct rejection, but I make it clear there is no one-on-one here. I've asked men to go do stuff too, but I make it clear it is a group activity.

I think I'll just stick to the divorce boards.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Chris,<P>I am going to give my .02 here.<P>IF, you want the companionship, go for it. It doesn't hurt to have company of any kind. It is nice to have the company of the opposite sex. <P>IF, you do not sleep with her then it remains a date. <P>IF, you do, then it is an affair, tit for tat.<P>Why not go and ask your S for a date? Simple date. Date her again.(then sleep with her and call it an affair! ) i read somewhere in here that if YOU don't have and affair with your S, someone else will.<P>Good Luck,<BR>Mercy <P> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Bill, Why stick to the divorce boards? Is this something you don’t want to hear?<P>mercy, I gotta respond.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>IF, you want the companionship, go for it. It doesn't hurt to have company of any kind. It is nice to have the company of the opposite sex.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It doesn’t hurt? Then why did my wife (and other spouses here) leave? Because they found opposite sex companionship which they deemed better than ours. Look where their “companionship” ended up.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>IF, you do not sleep with her then it remains a date.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True, however you’re still married. Dating during marriage? What society say this is okay?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why not go and ask your S for a date?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nothing I’d like more but she happens to live 2000 miles away.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

No society says dateing during marriage is okay, no one said that affairs are okay during marriage, no one says companionship is not okay during marriage.<P>The fact is, it takes two to tango. Whether it be a failure of a marriage or an affair. NO one is perfect. So, when person gets lonely, company he/she seeks. Whether it be okay or not doesn't come into the picture. <P>That is why we are all here on this board. We have all failed. Whether it be in meeting the emotional needs of ones Spouse OR in committing adultery.<P>The bible also only allows Divorce when adultery is committed. So legally(spiritually) speaking, YOu are no longer married. Period.<P>Love to chat <BR>Mercy<P>