Okay. Buhpah's "11 years" post got me going. I have to get this out before I see her tomorrow so I can get some work done.<P>I offered to bring the kids by wife's work so she could say hi to them. She was supposed to have them this weekend, but neglected to get the time off work and had a diving class to go to.<P>She called me up when I was about 10 minutes away from her work. Said that she was too tired to see the kids and was just going to go home and take a bath.<P>Well, in the words of Steve Martin, exxxcccuuussseee me!<P>I'm sorry that your children get in the way of seeing the OM and taking your bath. You are too tired? Funny, you were never too tired after you had worked a 12 hour shift to go spend 4 hours with him and neglect your children.<P>You said that you were taking a demotion at work so that you could spend more time with your kids. You told me your only regret is that you don't see the kids enough. Funny, now that you have cut your work hours in half, maybe you could spend more than 75% of the parenting time you were awarded by the court with your children. But nnnnooooooooo, work still seems to get in the way.<P>And about that demotion. You lost the health insurance. Oh but now you can get another policy. Meanwhile, I have to write a check for $150 to the therapist for our son to help him through something you caused.<P>I am so glad you are taking this diving class. It is good to see you do something for yourself. It has been a long time since you did something for yourself. Oh, except maybe spending 40 hours a week with the OM instead of coming home to your children and expecting me to explain why their mommy wasn't home.<P>You were crying the other day and saying how children at our children's age should not be without their mother. Funny, you didn't say anything about them being without their father. See above about spending time with them. And, while I'm thinking of it, if you had gotten primary custody, you would have moved them in with a guy who they had met once. And expected him to take on the father duties.<P>You say that a big sticking point is that I don't want to have anymore children. OM wants more. Of course, he has two that he doesn't hardly see and is taking a job that will take him away for 4 weeks at a time. And you. You have two kids. Remember them? The one's you walked out on? I think you two should have a whole passel of kids. You are doing so well with the ones you have.<P>Meanwhile:<P>I have to pay 80% of the bills with 40% of the income.<P>I get the kids 70% of the time with 30% of the help (when you show up).<P>I'm the one that has to pay for diapers and formula, and then you ask me if you can have some. Buy your own!<P>I'm the one that has to answer the question (as I did twice just today) "I'm confused. I don't know why mommy doesn't want to live with you. This makes me very sad" from a six year old that wants his mommy home.<P>I'm the one who is cleaning the house at 1 am because it is the only time I have to do it.<P>I'm the one who gives the baths, reads the stories, does the laundry, takes Steven to school, picks him up, feeds him dinner, helps with the homework, and then plays with them if I have time. Then when all that is done, it is time to do my homework.<P>Remember, I am now 2 quarters behind because of the emotional turmoil caused by your affair. They don't look too kindly on that when you are in a Ph.D. program at a major research university. Oh, and by the way, I'm losing my job on July 1 because of all the time I have had to take off to deal with this. Wonder how the bills are going to get paid after that?<P>And after all of this, I am Plan Aing my butt off to try to get you back. Sometimes I really wonder why.<P>Tomorrow, we had planned on talking about the final divorce settlement. I am going to ask you if you would be willing to put the divorce aside for a bit while we try to get back together. Sometimes I wonder why.<P>After all of this, I still love you. You were my best friend. I could tell you anything. Now I can tell you nothing. I thought you would always be there. And you almost fell down the stairs that night you left in your rush to get away.<P>I'm done for now. I'll see you tomorrow with my best face on. It's late, and I'm tired. I hope to see you tomorrow. I hope you don't cancel like you did the last two times.<P>Good Night. Sleep well. I love you.<P>Thanks for listening.<p>[This message has been edited by grandpabri (edited May 07, 2000).]

Go and vent away...<B>grandpabri</B>...<P>Been there...<P>It's more than OK to vent.<P>Hey...<BR>...didn't know it... did you...<BR>...but...<BR><B>you are loved here</B>!<P> <P>JIm

Thanks for sharing your pain. It makes me realize that I am not the only one who has these feelings!<P>If you work it out, your W will be getting a real blessing. Your dedication surpasses mine!<P>I hope that she is worth it.

G,<P>Like Jim said vent wawy!!!!!!!!!<P>If you still want her back tell her none of what you wrote. The following is from a thread another builder wrote. She is in recovery.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know what you are feeling and I know that the pain that you feel feels as though it is to much to take but you have to realize a couple of things... <BR>This OP is providing her with an atmosphere that is simply easier to handle than the one she has at home. In my situation I lost it plenty of times, believe me but the only problem is that it was the WORST thing that I could have done. <BR>Whether you see it or not, your W has a battle going on inside her soul and in some ways she is being tugged and pulled like a tug of war. <BR>I can give you some really good advice but I will tell right up front it is very hard to do. <BR>We often get caught up in our own pain and hurt and we can't understand why this person we have loved is doing this to us or our children. <BR>But try for a moment if you can to put all of that aside. I once read a book called Divorce Busting, and I must say that I highly recommend. <BR>It tries to explain the point that if you react in an expected manner that the reaction you receive will also be the same. However, if you do a 180 degree turnaround and react in other ways that the OP in this case your W will have no choice but to react in another way also. The hard part is being consistant. <BR>Going through this with my H, I have learned an awful lot and I see now that the things that different ones would say or tell me made an awful lot of sense but to be quite honest I was so caught up in my own pain and wanting it to be different that I just simply didn't understand the way I wished I had. <BR>Affairs, although each have different details are really very simular. I can see now that if I could've just found the strength to bring myself to this tremendous challenge earlier my life of torment would have ended sooner. <BR>Here is my point and the best advice I have to offer you... <BR>Now I have to be blunt with you because you have to get this point and this is VERY important. I do not know all of your story but it seems as if your W is still living at home and that is very good for you if you don't blow it. By that I mean just this... you have more time and oppurtunity to make a difference. But you have to STOP loosing it, asking for equal time, that she give 100% to you and all of that. You have no choice because if you don't she will leave. <BR>There is no way she can meet your emotional needs at this time, NONE!!!! She is to sick right now. This OM is being a friend that makes it possible for her to relax. And from your post I can tell you that your are pushing her away farther and farther. even though you are trying to accomplish the opposite. <BR>You must stop the lovebusting and forget about receiving and emotional support from her at this time because she can't give it to you; at least noit consistantly. <BR>You have to let your anger go for now... it won't go anywhere but that is something that you will have to deal with later. <BR>As hard, unpleasant and angering as it is you must think realisticly about what she gets out of the relationship with the OM and it does not boil down to sex! Don't even torment yourself with that aspect because that is not it. <BR>Let me ask you this... If your W complained or nagged you about something constantly to the point that you just wished that you would shut up; how open would you be to do something for her? <BR>The sex will become ordinary and run of the mill, it is just like a child with a new toy, when it is new that is all the child plays with but after time it looses its newness and the child does not pay it as much attention anymore. The same applies here. <BR>You can not work on emotional needs until the OM is gone, it just won't work. But there is something you can do that will be quite effective. <BR>1. Leave her alone<BR>2. Don't discuss or make any reference to OM<BR>3. Don't ask for anything personal {info, intentions, affection... nothing} <BR>Just try and be nice, get along with no arguments at all. If something happens that you feel you can't keep quiet, tell her you are going to the store or something and get a grip on yourself but do not show an attitude of any kind or any kind of behavior that would leave her to think that you are upset. Be prepared for tests, with this new attitude it won't take long for her to wonder what has happened to you and then she will start telling you this & that or making comments just to see if she gets a reaction from you or not. Don't you fall for it. <BR>I know it is like letting her eat her cake and have it too but that is what it is like now and resistance isn't working so let her have since she does anyway and handle it in a way that will benefit you and your daughter in the end. <BR>Its hard I won't lie to you but if she doesn't have anything to tell the OP, like he started again I don't know how I can take it anymore for example, he will begin to wonder himself and start putting demands on her. Because to be perfectly honest you are giving him all the power and reassurance he needs and you want to stop giving her anything to complain about. <BR>As a result, she will stop complaining, the OP will start asking questions and she will have no choice but to confess that you are getting along better. How do you think the OP will like that? Not to much I would guess. Fight fire with fire. <BR>We hate to thing of our SO's as being purposefully manipulative and they aren't but the fact is she does have 2 men in her back pocket and everytime you get upset it shows that you care, and it diminishes her pressure to make a choice. <BR>Right now he is the good guy, the one that is easy to be with but she obviously still loves you and your daughter regardless of what she might say or else she would not be there at all. <BR>The trick is going to be beating this OP at his own game. You need to be a good guy, easy to be with, one that she will become comfortable with again, someone she can relax with as she probally does with him. <BR>So then you will both be good guys, but I guarantee you if yiu are consistant and don't falter, his status WILL change. <BR>Be her friend and not her H and with a little time chances are that she will want YOU to be her H again, but just not now. <BR>I've heard lots of recovery stories and I have had the time and oppurtunity to see alot of stories unfold and it really is true that all affairs will run their course and end. And you can really strengthen your marriage from the experience. But there is a trick to it. <BR>You must be able to realize and believe that and have some faith. You must be smart and use your head and that means it is critical that you not surcome to the hurt that we all feel and stay focused. That is very important because when we fall off the wagon so to speak, we loose credibility & our edge. It really does take patience and that is the hardest part of all I hate to say. <BR>I know that this is really long and I apologize for that but I really do know how it feels and I would just like to help someone get through this faster than I did, and youn really do learn alot when yhou have the gift of hindsite. <BR>HINT: For those times when we all fall off the wagon- don't beat yourself up about it just don't do it again!!! <BR>Also, with all of the pain we feel we all need a little sense that we are getting back at somebody and that somebody is usually best suited to be the OP. So... this is what came to help me stay focused. I know that this can sound mean but I consider it therapeudic too. But anyway, thinking about how I got even everytime my SO had something nice to say about me to the OP gave me a sense of payback. Because they really will feel much more insecure about us, because we have history, kids, lots of memories too! So anything nice our SOs have to say about us or something we did, makes them feel mcuh worse. Here's something else to remember, they will start bad mouthing us and our SOs often feel the need to defend us because they do still love us too. <BR>BAM!!! <BR>Trouble in Paradise!!! <BR>This is when the OP pushes them right back and does the work for you. But you have to get the ball rolling and KEEP it rolling, and that means you have tos tay focused!!! <BR>Try to enjoy the Christmas tree decorating. Let it go, take a deep breath and decide what you really want is more important thatn your pain right now and do what you have to do, bite your tongue and show her a good time. <BR>Sorry about this, I'll get down off my soap box. <BR>Best wishes and Good Luck! Let us know how you are doing. <BR>Genie<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I will admitt that W and I are not reconcileing, however this did help my plan-a tremendously.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Good luck to you today, GP. I hope your meeting with your wife goes better today.<P>I'm sorry I'm not more help--I have to go do some more traditional work so they keep paying me.<P>Good luck again! --HBC

As usual, she canceled Friday. Canceled Saturday. Canceled Sunday. Now wants to talk in front of the children tonight.<P>I'm not so sure that is a good idea.<P>Thanks for your positive thoughts. Updates at the top and bottom of every hour, as usual.

No talking in front of the children - ever.<BR>They are suffering enough. Let them be out of the loop while you and Larri do your talking.

I agree with Bellevue! The children are stressing enough as it is. This is grownup talk.<P>Good luck! --HBC

<BR>GP,<P>Dude, quit holdin' back and tell us what you REALLY think! <P>Seriously, its far better to vent here than on your wife.<P>Btw, no discussions in front of the kids. They may not understand the words, but to make up for that, God gave them the gift of empathy. The can sense when something is wrong. <P>Bystander

You've hear it said by all...<P>No children!<P>Arrange for the baby-sitter NOW!<P> <P>JIm