I am a little hesitant to post this, but I guess you people know more about me than most of my friends anyway, so here goes. This is a letter I want to read to H and ask that he please respond. Please help me eliminate any love busters from it.<P>Dear H,<P>I just can't end our marriage without some idea of what our problems are and why you don't think we can work on them. I can accept that we always had problems. I see how unhappy you are. I want to do what I can to help. I recognise that I am not perfect. There are things that I see in myself that contributed to our marriage not being what it should. Perhaps you see others, I would like to know what they are.<P>Communication. I have not been good about shareing my hopes and dreams, thoughts and feelings, fears and insecurities. I haven't always even faced these things about myself. I was afraid. Afraid if you saw the real me you could never love me.<P>I'm sorry if my not taking your name bothered you. I think it was part of me trying to keep myself safe. To not feel like I was loosing myself.<P>Maybe part of the reason I was attracted to you was because we both have trouble expressing ourselves. I am trying to improve and not hold things in any more.<P>My weight. I think my gaining weight bothers you and makes you not proud to have me as your spouse. I am working on this and find that when I express my emotions I don't have to eat to cover them up. I hope I can continue to make progress.<P>Sex. I am not sure when our problems started or what they are. Maybe its affected by my negative self immage when I am overweight. Maybe I had problems over my guilt and anger with ******* abuse of me as a child. I do know I miss it and would love to feel that closeness.<P>My nagging and control issues. I have never told you how insecure I am, how I feel like i am a bad person, who is not really desearving of love and kindness. That I was never quite good enough, or smart enough, strong enough, or attractive enough. So I feel like it is my responsibility to make everything go smoothly. I worry about things alot and sometimes express that by questioning. I am sorry if my questions have started to bug you. I see you have taken to not responding to them and that hurts. To tell you the truth I hate that I feel compeled to ask so many, just my way of asking for reassurance or trying to initiate a conversation. I am trying to change how I communicate and not use so many questions.<P>All for Lora and nothing for H. I will tell you honastly when you said that my first impulse was to defend myself. To list the things I gave you or the times we did things for you. But since I am trying to look at my faults and face up to them, I will try to put aside that defensiveness and figure out why you feel that way. Have I never shown love and unselfishness and generosity of spirit? I know I have a hard time accepting crisism. Maybe you feel I am closed off and stubborn and unapproachable. I think I am a little like my Dad. I like to argue the point a little, Even when I am tottally on your side, I don't show it. I take the other guys point of view just for the sake of argument. Thats wrong and I am working to change it.<P>Your vasectomy. I was very sure about my feeling about not wanting kids and i though you were just as sure. I would have never wanted you to take such a permenant step if you were not. I am very sorry if you have now changed your mind and feel you have made a mistake.<P>OW. I have not been able to be objective and detached about your friendship with OW> You and I have never been able to discuss this mostly because it is such an emotional subject for me. I haven't been able to express rationally how I feel. I have been in an almost constant state of anxiety about this, not knowing what to do or say. It has made me act irrationally. I haven't been able to understand the climate of secrecy and dishonasty that surrounds this friendship. I do not want to be a jeolous possesive spouse and I have wrestled with how to deal with my feelings. I certainly want you to have friends and fun, but I think opposite sex friendships are dangerous when the other spouse is excluded. OW has made no effort to acknowledge my role in your life and in fact hangs up when I answer the phone. In the past you have take offense at my fears, that it means I don't trust you. But I don't think anyone could watch this kind of a friendship develop between their spouse and another person and not feel at the very least, somewhat insecure.<P>H, I have looked into my heart and see so much love for you. I should have shown you my love, respect and admiration throughout our marriage. I am learning to love, forgive and trust myself first of all, then maybe I can be a better partner in marriage. I think my low self esteem and self confidence made it hard for me to give you what you needed.<P>How has this happened to us? I see you looking so sad or angry. I see you pulling away , not just from me, but from your family and the things you enjoy. I am scared, for you, for us. Are you as afraid to talk to me as I am to you? Or even more?<P>I love you , H. I never intentionally set out to hurt you or us. i know I need to be more aware of my behavoirs and words and how they affect you and others.I am learning and growing and it feels good. i know things happened where we hurt each other. I am begining to change that all that I can.<P>I don't want to see this continue to create so much distance between us. We can change what is happening by simply opening up to each other. I know that is hard. we have never been the greatest communicators. Can you start to share with me? I hope you can. I want you to and I want to be able to do the same. I promise I will try to listen to what you say and hear it without defensiveness or arguements.

Lora,<P>Great letter...<P>It's excellent that you can acknowledge your contribution to the obstacles of your marriage... and that you can be so specific.<P>However... any and all mention of OW... should be elimated. This can wait. No matter what you say... it will be a Love Buster.<P>No matter how little progess you think you've made...<BR>...let him know some specifics of your progress...<BR>understanding of emotional needs...<BR>working toward MB skills (POJA, 4 rules...)<BR>building yourself... and your own self-esteem!<P>Your H will much more respond to you if you are not beating up on yourself...<BR>...honesty... yes...<BR>...berating yourself... no.<P>All in all good...<BR>...but leave out the OW paragraph.<P> <P>Jim

Hey NSR,<P>If I may say so, you are one heck of a good coach! I've only been on this forum a week and read all your threads. They are insightful, honest and real world, not to mention you know the "BOOK" like the back of your hand.<P>Thank you for being there and caring enough to respond.<P>-Jo

Darn it Jim, <BR> That was my favorite part! I plagerized it from Dazed and confused, but I felt it was the first time I could reasonably state my feelings about OW. Can I give him that part later?<P>I have a hard time on that line between honasty and berating myself. But I really feel I need to tell him my feelings of inadiquicy, as I never have. I try to project a strong and independant front and I wonder if he know what is behind it.<BR>Lora<BR>

Love letters...<P>...and I believe that's what this is supposed to be...<BR>...should be only about you and your spouse.<P>Introducing any words about an OP... degrades the love letter... and invariably leads to some form of LB-ing.<P>Sorry... <P>Can/should you give it to him later...<BR>...yep... when your "in recovery"... <P>Prayers... <P>Jim<P>BTW... Josey... thanks...<BR>...my being here is a form of my own therapy and helps me come to terms with the road I must follow too. <p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited May 29, 2000).]

Hmmmm....I thought parts of that sounded familiar. <P>"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery," and I am duly flattered.<P>I agree somewhat with Jim on the OW thing. What you have to keep in mind is that when I wrote my H my letter, it was SPECIFICALLY ABOUT Dragon Lady, and we were already well into a better marriage by that time. Something had happened to trigger the anxiety again; I forget what it was. <P>But Jim is right -- you are not in a position to make demands right now, at least in your H's eyes.<P>The one change that I would make overall is to get rid of the word "try." "Try" gives you an out. I hate to quote Yoda, but I have no choice here: There is no try, there is only do.<P>Try isn't enough. You have to SUCCEED.<P>Also...don't put thoughts in your H's head: "I think my gaining weight bothers you". Unless you KNOW this because he's TOLD you, don't word it like this. I had the same issue, and I too tried to project it onto my H...until he said, "If you have a problem with your weight, why punish me?"<P>Remember....your H probably doesn't have the slightest inkling of how you feel or about the emotional baggage you carry and how it affects your life. All he knows is what he sees. And what he sees is rejecting and distancing behavior -- not taking his name, etc. You already know this. Believe me, he doesn't care what the reasons are, because he doesn't understand it. Even though he obviously has baggage of his own, he's probably never looked into it the way you have; he just lives with it.<P>Jim is also right about berating yourself. I've done this too, and when I do, my H says I'm being manipulative. I am looking for him to tell me I'm wrong. There's a fine line between acknowledging mistakes and indulging in self-flagellation.<P>Try to tone that down a bit. Let your H know that things he's said have gotten you thinking, and that you acknowledge your role in the marital problems. But do that without sounding like "I am unworthy of love", even if you feel that way. Because you do NOT want him agreeing with you.

Here is my revision. I tried to incorporate your suggestions. What do you think? <BR> <P><BR> <P><BR> <P>I just can't end our marriage without some idea of what our problems are and why you don't think we can work on them. I can accept that we always had problems. I see how unhappy you are. I want to do what I can to help. I recognise that I am not perfect. There are things that I see in myself that contributed to our marriage not being what it should. Perhaps you see others, I would like to know what they are.<P>Communication. I have not been good about shareing my hopes and dreams, thoughts and feelings, fears and insecurities. I haven't always even faced these things about myself. I was afraid. Afraid if you saw the real me you could never love me.<P>I'm sorry if my not taking your name bothered you. I think it was part of me trying to keep myself safe. To not feel like I was loosing myself. I may act like I am independant, but I want you in my life. I loved the closeness that we shared. I have learned about respectful negotiation. I realize I have sometimes stated how I felt about things, but have not given you an opportunity to give your viewpoint and to negotiate to a conclusion that will make us both happy.<P>Maybe part of the reason I was attracted to you was because we both have trouble expressing ourselves. I have begun shareing my feelings in letters and talking to you.<P>My weight. I know my weight affect how I feel about myself. I am working on this and find that when I express my emotions I don't have to eat to cover them up. I think I can continue to make progress.<P>Sex. I am not sure when our problems started or what they are. Maybe its affected by my negative self immage when I am overweight. Maybe I had problems over my guilt and anger with ******* abuse of me as a child. I do know I miss it and would love to feel that closeness.<P>My nagging and control issues. I have never told you how insecure I am, how I feel like i am a bad person, who is not really desearving of love and kindness. That I was never quite good enough, or smart enough, strong enough, or attractive enough. So I feel like it is my responsibility to make everything go smoothly. I worry about things alot and sometimes express that by questioning. I am sorry if my questions have started to bug you. I see you have taken to not responding to them and that hurts. To tell you the truth I hate that I feel compeled to ask so many, just my way of asking for reassurance or trying to initiate a conversation. I am changing how I communicate to not use so many questions. I know I can only take responsibility for myself, for my feelings and I can only work to change myself. <P>All for Lora and nothing for H. I will tell you honastly when you said that my first impulse was to defend myself. To list the things I gave you or the times we did things for you. But since I am trying to look at my faults and face up to them, I will try to put aside that defensiveness and figure out why you feel that way. I know I have a hard time accepting crisism. I think I am a little like my Dad. I like to argue the point a little, Even when I am totally on your side, I don't show it. I take the other guys point of view just for the sake of argument. Thats wrong and I will change it.<P>Your vasectomy. I was very sure about my feeling about not wanting kids and i though you were just as sure. I would have never wanted you to take such a permenant step if you were not. I am very sorry if you have now changed your mind and feel you have made a mistake.<P>H, I have looked into my heart and see so much love for you. I should have shown you my love, respect and admiration throughout our marriage. I am learning to love, forgive and trust myself first of all, then I can be a better partner in marriage. I think my low self esteem and self confidence made it hard for me to give you what you needed.<P>How has this happened to us? I see you looking so sad or angry. I see you pulling away , not just from me, but from your family and the things you enjoy. I am scared, for you, for us. Are you as afraid to talk to me as I am to you? Or even more?<P>I love you , H. I never intentionally set out to hurt you or us. i know I need to be more aware of my behavoirs and words and how they affect you and others.I am learning and growing and it feels good. i know things happened where we hurt each other. I am begining to change that all that I can. I have been learning many skills which will help me build and improve our marriage. I am learning how to take better care of you and give you more of what you need.<P>I don't want to see this continue to create so much distance between us. We can change what is happening by simply opening up to each other. I know that is hard. we have never been the greatest communicators. Can you start to share with me? I hope you can. I want you to and I want to be able to do the same. I promise I will try to listen to what you say and hear it without defensiveness or arguements.<P>Lora<P><BR>-<BR> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Lora (edited May 29, 2000).]

Lora...<P>Do add in... (something like)...<BR>..."I have been learning many skills which will help me to build and improve our marriage...<BR>...I've learned about respectful negotation<BR>...conditional/unconditional love<BR>...trust building and honesty<BR>...how to spend quality time<BR>...how to care for you... and you for me<BR>...how to protect you and for you to protect me..."<P>Your H needs to "see" these...<BR>...and not just be told this.<P>Again... this is hard... it takes time.<P>Above all... do be honest in your letter.<P> <P>Jim

Jim, I tried to revise above, short on time right now, will look at it more later.<BR>Lora

Lora,<P>How are you? Just curious, have you sent letter to H?<P>Was thinking of you on Monday, how'd the get together w/In-laws go?<P>-Jo<P><BR>