Hi, Friends!<P>Just wondering how you are doing w/no contact. Doing okay? Anyone struggling a whole bunch? Thought I'd check on you gals! You might read my new posts! <BR> <P>Very positive!<P>I'm still thinking and praying for you all!! Please continue to pray for my H and I!

I had a rough time last night, but instead of emailing (not that he'd read it anyway, but...) I got on-line and read and posted and emailed a friend (female) instead. (H was asleep)<P>The idea of never seeing the OM again makes me sad, but I have been talking to my H and he gives me hugs and I feel better. It will take time, I think, to get past it completely.<P>At least I don't have to worry about the OM contacting me. I really don't think he will.<P>So, I'm still a little sad. But it comes and goes in spurts. Overall, I guess I'm doing OK.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TruthSeeker:<BR><B>...The idea of never seeing the OM again makes me sad, but I have been talking to my H and he gives me hugs and I feel better. It will take time, I think, to get past it completely....<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know what you mean. It makes me a little sad, too. It'll probably be a little rougher for me a few weeks down the road. But, I'm preparing myself for the withdrawal because I'm sure it will hit sometime. I know there's not a lot I can do about the withdrawal, but I can fight it! And I'm counting on all of you to help me, too! We are so lucky to have each other for support!!

Hi Momma (and friends!),<P>I'm not doing well at all this morning.<P>So, major vent coming up: Week-end didn't turn out very well - frustrated with my situation. Maybe I am so impatient, I just wish my husband could be more active in this whole process, but that is part of our main issues. It is very discouraging. It is an endless pattern of him feeling discouraged, then withdrawing, then me eventually lovebusting, more withdrawal... It just seems whether I confront (which usually includes some lovebusting, especially for his personality) or don't say anything, the outcome is the same - his passiveness. In the 9 months since D-day, the only thing he has done towards building is go 2X to a counselor (which amounted to barely getting past the introductions). If he reads a book it is becuase I give it to him, if he reads a post it is because I have printed it out - and then there is no response of what he thought about it. If I ask he'll say, "well I have to read it again, I don't remember it or know what to think about it". Then he doesn't read it again. If I didn't give him anything to read, or suggest we go to Retrovaille (which we did in May), nothing would happen at all. Sure, he comes along, but doesn't "work" it through. The stagnation is killing me. Today I feel like "imamess". I see no way out of this rut. In a way he is trying with little things (like trying to help out with chores, keep me more updated about what is happening), but it is like putting out a raging fire with a garden hose. And instead of me being able to look to him for support, I need to support him while I am in withdrawal. Yes, I know we both have to support each other, which I am prepared to do, but it always goes one way. I can't be the one all the time. He has no where else to turn because he has always depended on me for everything. I haven't wanted that, but when I try to encourage him to do things apart from me, he resists. So, I have to let it go. Yesterday evening I told him I want him to get into a weekly counseling session. He has two weeks to do that, or else I want him to move out (not as in divorce, just separate from me so he can stop leaning on me). It isn't really what I want, but I don't know what else to do. It sounds so drastic and mean, but he is very dependent on me and I can't carry him - it isn't healthy. It is so hard to explain it all in these posts and I know some will misunderstand. The truth is, no one really knows our situations and it is impossible to explain it fully on these boards.<P>I feel badly saying all these things, but I don't know where else to go right now. I usually keep it all in and try to change myself and be the best person I can be. But the frustration just builds up.<P>I have spoken honestly this week-end, as many were suggesting, but I don't really feel any better. There is just so little response (has always been that way). So, it often feels like a monlogue. We have no plan for recovery or for growth (except any ideas I might have). I am just so tired of carrying it, implementing it and seeing we stay on course. <P>JL said he must love me since he is still here. Well, to be honest I think it isn't really love, but security that keeps him. That also makes me sad.<P>I am still in No Contact and planning on staying with it. What good would it do to contact the OM -it doesn't lead to a long term solution. I would just be running to fill my needs somewhere. What also keeps me from it is my love/care for the OM and for his family. I cannot run there for my sake. <P>So, not feeling well at all today.

Sifted,<P>My H was a lot like that. Still is sometimes. I had to make it clear to him that I needed his interaction, that I needed him to be more htan part of the furniture, that I needed his feedback when I talked to him. I bought a book called "Do I have to give up me to be loved by you". It has a lot of examples of effective communication in it. It took a long time for my H to read it and I was getting discouraged, but he seems to understand now what I meant when I said I needed his feedback.<P>It might be worth a try. Keep reminding him that the biggest problem right now is the lack of communication and that for the marriage to succeed, he MUST communicate with you. Even if it's negative feelings, he has to share what's on his mind.<P>My H was afraid to share what was on his mind until after he read that book and started to try it. He's still a little reluctant, but it's gotten easier to get him to talk now.<P>((((((((Sifted)))))))))<P><BR>

Thanks Truthseeker for the tip. Is that the full title of the book? Do they have it on Amazon? I am the one who has always done all the reading and applying. I am getting tired and feel like quitting.<P>That title about sums up our relationship. Over the years I have often said "I don't know how to live with you". I don't know how to be who I am with him. When I am myself he is overwhelmed (and I am not a loud, rambunctious person, I'm an introvert, but I do have enthusiasm and passion for life), when I try to not show my passion and "gear down" to his level I feel like I am dying. What I am realizing is that I am not fully responsible for how he feels. If he feels bad about himself it isn't just because I haven't encouraged and held him up enough. I know now that all my encouragement and building him up wouldn't alone be enough for him to feel better about himself. That is a relief for me to realize that. He is responsible for his own feelings. But, it still doesn't change the stagnant situation. Sometimes I wish there was an easy way to have a separation (I wouldn't mind if he took a 3 month trip somewhere). I just feel like saying, "Go find out who you are and when you do come back and show me. I'll be here waiting". Maybe that can be done without a physical separation, but it hasn't seemed possible in all these years.<P><BR>To be honest, it is one of the things about the OM that I was so afraid to give up (able to be fully who I was). Letting that go felt like I would start to die again. The OM was not overwhelmed or intimidated by who I was. There was a matching passion on the other side and it was so refreshing to me. I guess it is something we'll (H and I) need to work out in counseling. <P>Thanks for your "hug". I'm trying to stay focused and not falter today. I have music on to focus my mind.<P>"The name of the Lord is a strong tower, the righteous run into it and are safe".<P>I don't want to "run" to the OM.<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 26, 2000).]

{{{{{{{Sifted}}}}}}}<P>I'm sorry for your pain today. I know it's rough! This isn't much fun, is it? It's odd how one day we're doing pretty well, then another, not doing well at all. Guess it's just part of the vicious cycle.<P>I hope your H comes around soon. It would help you tremendously! I wish I could help you w/him. ???<P>You're right, though, about contacting OM. I doesn't solve your problems, actually only makes them worse. I don't know why it's taken me so long to realize that. I did realize it, but it didn't phase me enough. You're on the right track. Some help from your H would do wonders!<P>You need to be yourself, no matter what. Don't let yourself die inside trying to pacify him. I'm not saying to forget your H, but you won't be happy at all if you're not happy w/yourself. That's something I've been learning all along. Try to find some common ground for the 2 of you and let your difference complement each other. (I'm learning this, too.) He also has to be happy deep inside to make you happy. I don't know what it takes for that to happen.<P>I just want you to know I'm here for you, as you've been here for me. You don't know how much your encouragement means to me! I hope things get better. Keep your chin up!<P>Have a better day!

Hi Hi Hi....<BR>I'm so glad you are all here today.<P> Momma, Sifted, Truthseeker...<BR>Forgive my "insomniatic" attempts to communicate today. I'm not functioning well myself. <P>Thanks, Momma for writing to us. I'm feeling pretty sunk myself today. Up all night, not able to sleep. H and I talked at great length at 5:00 a.m. <BR>In the exact same place as you are, Sifted. H can't seem to open up, no matter how hard I try. I revealed a lot to him...more than I ever have. He was mostly silent. But like you, I am the one doing ALL the reading, counseling, communicating...and yes, crying. <P>Sifted, we seem to be in the exact same place. I told H that I would move out. But I really don't think that's an option. I am so full of anxiety. I, too, know that to contact OM is out of the question. I've changed my schedule so as not to run into OM. So I'm staying away. It's easier that way. <P>But H is simply not "getting" it. He depends on me to do all the work. That has always been our problem...he doesn't know how to dig down and express his heart. Can't seem to express those feelings except in a physical way.<P>Come on, Ladies...let's not allow this pain to hinder our recovery. I guess, as so many have said, it is a part of the process. I 'm so thankful each one of you has been there for support. <P>Oh, BTW...was reading some old postings from others in our situations...and a good book was recommended:<BR>"The Passions, Perils, and Agonies of Female Infidelity" (1994) by Carol Botwin. It's written strickly for women...and evidently is a wonderful tool for getting through withdrawl. <P>Each of you may want to go back and read an eye opening posting by "Freedom" <BR>Posted Aug 10, 1999. Entitled "The Whole Story" <BR>This man's story fueled my attempts to tell my H all of what my heart is going through. I highly recommend reading it. YOu will not believe what he went through. <P>I'm praying for you all. <P>Thanks, once again, for your honesty and transparency. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by wings (edited June 26, 2000).]

Thanks all for your kind replies. This place really is very helpful, if only just to get some bad feelings out and to be encouraged by others with similar situations.<P>I tried to share very honestly the feelings I developed for the OM and even that I could not break it alone. I am hoping my husband sees that I am weak too, so often he acts as if I am "superwoman". Do you know the song by Twila Paris "The Warrior is a Child" I really identify with that song and it practically makes me cry. I've shared it with my husband in the past but I'm sure he didn't get it or remember. I am full of anxiety too. <P>The unpleasant side effect of starting to share some things (I'd rather just stick with the feelings I had with OM, but husband wants to know more "where we met, how we communicated (phone, etc)", makes me start to miss the OM. It is like going back and remembering what I have been trying to ignore and won't allow myself to dwell on. Like going down memory lane, a lane I am trying to forget. When will this all end? I would rather have a good strong plan to get through it that we are both following, doing it this way, slow and meandering without knowing exactly where we are going, is like a slow death. Just get stuff out and then maybe not talk for another week, then me bring it up again...There never seems to be a going through it, just skirting around it. I know I was as direct as possible. It is now up to him. What if he stuffs it again? I wonder what the betrayed suggest in that case? How much of this (recovery) is my responsibility? <P>I was going to write a strong post (feeling a little better than earlier), but just seems like more questions are coming up. I sound like Momma did last week - just lots of questions.<P>Wings it is good you changed your schedule. Did you say once you were going to school? I have changed my way to work because the OM and I used to pass by each other along the same road. If I even see him for a second or his car I will crumble. I changed my swim schedule last December, so other than that there aren't too many chances we'll run into each other. I am pretty sure he won't contact me for the same reasons I'm not contacting him - doesn't want to mess up my life. Sigh. Can't even begin thinking of any of it at all. Just talking of him makes me sad. Got to stop now.<P>I won't let the pain hinder recovery (my own at least). I have learned from past experiences how to go through pain to get to the other side. I can do it, just don't know how to be "one" with a husband who doesn't/can't do it. Momma, you are right - he has to be happy and content with himself. That is a big part of the problem. <P>Another thing, Wings, about sharing feelings: you might want to consider Retrouvaille. It teaches you how to share your feelings with each other - especially good for husbands who aren't used to that (and for us wives to just let them express their feelings w/out judgement). That is something we are doing and I think it is helping my husband. It is just all so slow! I could see this taking YEARS, and I'm not sure I can wait that long for some life to kick in here. In a way, I'm almost back to where I was one year before the affair - detach, let go, live my own life, develop and grow myself...but somehow that didn't get "us" to a good place, although I'm happy with myself.<P>

Sorry, posted 2x<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 26, 2000).]

Hi, Wings, Sifted!<P>I'm truly sorry for how you guys are feeling today. Isn't ironic that one of gets better while another isn't doing so well? You guys were so encouraging to me last week, and now I'm doing better, and I'm feeling for you guys now. It's strange these ups and downs we go through. <P>Wings, I'm so sorry you're in the place you are right now. I wish your H's would wake up and smell the coffee. I really don't know how I ever would have survived this without my H. Honestly, if he hadn't opened up, we probably wouldn't be together. I need SO much from him, and he tries his hardest to give it to me. We have really gotten past the hardest parts, though. It was a lot harder at the beginning. So, it only gets better w/time. (As long as XOM stays out of the picture) Please keep posting and getting those frustrations and emotions out. I don't have many answers, but I have all the encouragement in the world! {{{{{Wings}}}}} (Had to hug you, too!)<P>Keep hanging in there, Sifted. I know where you're at right now, it will get better! Keep your chin up!<P>Still praying for you both!

Link for freedom storys that wings talked about really worth reading<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009868.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009868.html</A> <P>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited June 26, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited June 26, 2000).]

Wow, what a post by Freedom! Actually I read it several months ago, but with different eyes. The first time it did get my attention - and put a fear in me, but still with some "fog" because I wasn't ready/willing to let the OM go. Now, that I am "on the other side" (so to speak, in withdrawal), it really hits me with a fear and trembling. What I always feared was the guilt I knew I could never shake, if I ever tried to make a new "life" with OM - and even after 6! years went by for Freedom, he was still struggling with it, even though he had great times with the OW. I knew my conscience just couldn't take it. And so there is the trap Freedom talked about - caught between two worlds. That is surely true - and there is no way to make those worlds one. Thanks, for bringing this story up again.<P>This he said so well:<P>DON’T LET YOUR FEELINGS DRIVE YOUR BEHAVIOR. LET YOUR FAITH IN GOD DRIVE YOUR BEHAVIOR AND YOU CAN’T GO WRONG.<P>An affair is mostly driven by feelings. And the more you give in to the feelings, the less you are able to let your behavior be driven by faith in God (what you know is right). <P>I am still trembling at how deceitful it all is and the destruction it leaves. {shudder}<P>If I hadn't kept coming back to these boards for a dose of reality (since January), hadn't kept going to church and hearing the truth, hadn't had a foundation of truth already in my heart...<P>I am still amazed at how I was deceived, if even for a season. Like NoMas once said, "after all I know..." {another shudder}

WOW! I read Freedom's story. Boy, did that make the tears flow. Talk about a reality check. It really makes me very grateful for what I have and what I almost lost. I thank God everyday that I didn't screw up my marriage anymore than I already have. I thank Him that he gave me my H and 3 beautiful children. I thank Him for granting me forgiveness, even though I don't deserve it. I thank Him for letting me see the light, before I actually ended up w/the OM. <BR> <BR>"God is so good, God is so good, God is so good, He's so good to me." I love that song. <P>Thanks for bringing back that story. I'll remember to read it if I ever get a twinge of feelings for XOM. He's not worth it, nothing's worth losing my family.<P>I hope you all know how much you mean to me! You are some of the closest friends I've had in years! You all hold a special place in my heart! <p>[This message has been edited by momma (edited June 26, 2000).]

Momma, Sifted...<BR>I'm so glad you both read Freedom's story. He completely opened my eyes. <P>Thanks, to you both for being such great friends in all of our sufferings. At least we can run to God first, then to this forum from here on out when we feel weak. And pray continually for God's strength to walk the straight and narrow path. <P>Hugs to you both!

Wings,<P>God does provide people to come alongside at the right time when we need it. That is how you and the others are for me right now. <P>Above all, let us encourage each other in honesty and truth. Please stay around here for awhile, I will need your support on this board.<P>Tell me how your recovery is going and what plans you have. Are you seeing a counselor? How are you working through it? I am afraid everything will come out and we still won't have a plan to move forward. That has been part of the problem so far. It is going to be very hard. We haven't even begun recovery, even though there was a lot of disclosure last fall (almost 10 months ago!). I see now when it isn't dealt with ( I think both spouses have a part in this), the affair often continues and escalates (that was my case).<P>Don't seem to have many strong or encouraging words today. Just big sighs and realizing the place I am in. But that realization is what will get me going forward. <P>I'll keep praying for you and your husband. I am sorry for his hurt and the hurt of my husband also.