Spoke with a friend today who sees H at work. Thought H was really way out there. Remember H came home from Thailand with OP and became very strange. He disconnected from me, the kids and the house.<P>He got on this antimaterialism kick in which he and OP have the "bond" <P>Anyway, this friend (who had a bad drug problem in the past) tried to talk to my H and thought he was way out there. He doesn't even see at all what he is doing. H just said he was really unhappy with his life and needed to live in poverty etc. This friend tried to discuss addiction with him and H just blew him off.<P>H looks just plain depressed. Op joined his fantasy by moving into her own sparse apt. But I know via her H that she is wanting more. So I know the affair is part of "it" whatever it is, but I just don't know if any of the MB principles will help......

I know my EA was fueled by depression.<P>It sounds like there is something about himself that he just doesn't like. It also seems as though something happened during that trip that triggered it. Not necessarily linked with the OW, she just happened to be there and is therefore a part of it. <P>You've probably already done this, but maybe if you tried talking to him about the trip? Ask him a few open-ended questions to get him to talk and maybe find the thing that triggered his dislike for himself.<P>It sounds like he probably saw a lot of people living in terrible conditions and started feeling guilty for having what he has and for even wanting what he has. If he's religious at all, perhaps he could be persuaded to talk to someone at a local church about it. He sounds very conflicted over his value system. That is bound to cause depression. <P>Just throwing out ideas...

TT,<P>I always wondered in your situation if the affair (if there was one) is it. Do you know there is/was a physical affair between husband and his assistant? I guess you have to assume there has been an emotional affair. It would be so much easier in a way if you knew exactly what you are dealing with.<P>Does MB work on people with depression? Good question there. I also think my H is depressed at times, but would never in a million years admit it or do anything about it. Too bad really, because there are so many good reasons these days to not live like that, and your H, being a Doc should know that better than anyone.<P>It does sound like he is having a lot of guilt, but is it because of the money he makes, or because of OW? I think guilt=depression in a lot of people. It's got to be overwhelming to lie to the person who is closest to you, and to himself.<P>How is Plan B going for you? It seemed like before you went on your trip he was coming around a bit? Did he seemed like he missed you and the kids while you were gone? Do you think your H could be doing drugs? I know that "crazed" look, but shouldn't he be feeling a little more normal now that you are in Plan B and giving him no pressure?<P>I know, a lot of questions, and I'm sure you've asked yourself all of these. I can see where Plan B must be helping you, because there are no easy answers to any of this. You are right, you have to take care of yourself and your kids. They need one sane, functioning parent.<P>BTW, what do you mean OW wants more? Guess he's not meeting here needs either...and she can't possibly be meeing his if he is still so miserable.<P>Ok, I'll stop asking stuff. TT, your H is a tough one to read isn't he...you have a ton of patience.<P>Oh yeah, one more...have you thought any more about moving?<P>LOL..better stop while I"m ahead.<P>allison

Have you read "I don't want to talk about it" on men and depression? It talks at one point abt how depression can encourage an addiction to a person (or substance) which is used as a crutch to self-medicate depression. The person the depressed person is addicted to is often seen as almost god-like, giving the depressed a sense of belonging to something larger than himself...<P>Boy, it sure made my H and his "pyschic bond" to a woman who "radiates goodness...kinda like being around Jesus" make more sense. I haven't finished the book, so don't know if it says what to do with them (luckily, mine is now in therapy)...<P>Big hugs--<P>Kathi

Kam, yes I read a lot of "I don't want to talk about it" and yes, he did seem to view OP as Mother Teresa.... The interesting thing is...OP appears more like the people we read about here. She is more the textbook case.<P>I can tell based on all that her H has told me. She pines so much for my H that her son even knows (he's 12)...<P>My H on the other hand has never told me or any one in his family that he is in love with her...it's more the "she's taught me things" (ie. missionary work...giving to the lepers---which is all wonderful, but you can't tend the world unless you can tend yourself (and your family). <P>One of the first sessions I had with steve Harley, he described this as a giver snap. (that's his description of MLC or MLDepression)..He said H would get his "fix" from a hobby (in his case exercise and ice hockey)... , job (he began working really long hours acting like it was the most important thing to him (which he never did before), and a person....who almost mirrors what they need to believe!!!! (hence OP)<P>A/z, I think this was purely EA, at least until I went to plan B...I have no clue now...and I prefer it that way.. I don't believe she is the problem or the cure, but I have known her as long as my H has,,,and I think this is just what she wanted all along... but all she seems to be getting is a man who seems on the verge of a breakdown. I don't know how she would expect him to be there emotionally for her or her two children, unless she will give them up to her H and run off to do missionary work...at which point I (and the kids) are better off without him!<P>H is in counseling and has been for 5 months, but as I've mentioned before he has yet to tell him he sleeps approx 4-5 uninterrupted hours. And based on what the above friend said...he will say he is unhappy, but is completely unclear that he is addicted or depressed.....(denial is powerful)<P>S. Harley still gave me a 6 month time frame for him to bottom out...except he said it should be 6 months from the time he moved out (mid feb)... <P>H is (or was) a smart man...and very stubborn. It will be difficult for him to admit anything about himself. If my children can't make a dent (i.e. he is completely emotionally uninvolved with them) I don't know what can.<P>Though technically in plan B...I mostly told him I couldn't be his friend while she is his friend. (That is what irks me the most...that she thinks she is so special...when she is nothing more than self-medication...and even she won't be enough...). I think my H has always had some underlying self-esttem issues (as we all do I am sure), as well as some other issues relating to family and losing dad and brother....that he likes to keep buried.<P>In the past, he has switched jobs when he became low......this coworker provided a new twist. The problem with this is....I have already given him an out I told him I was not stopping him...I have repeatedly told him I loved him enough to want him to have happiness....and yet...he still is doing nothing.<P>ANyway, I saw him and he looks bad...very depressed...definately not happy... he seems even more depressed since he came back from hockey camp with S. Maybe he is thinking now what!!! Ya know, I will claim my part in the marraige, but I wont' be totally responsible for his unhappiness!!<P>and yes, I am planning on moving. First step is to unload this house and a lot of things in it. I'm taking this year to sell the house and much of the furniture and pack up anything important and store it. I want to pare down all bills and things. I really cannot depend on H entirely for $$ He could get down enough to runaway to thailand!!!<P>I haven't worked in 12 years...and am spending this year redirecting my degree so I can at least have some flexibility. <P>IT is daunting... <P>Truthseeker, I tried to talk to my H. He at first acted like I couldn't "understand" him... (sort of like I was beneath he and mother theresa ) Now he just says everything I say bugs him!!! So what can I say... And unfortunatley H is not religious...he (and I ) grew up Catholic, but in his very scientific pursuit...somehow drifted away too much... which is another inconguent thing...to want to give to strangers halfway around the would and say the kids are "fine"<p>[This message has been edited by tootrusting (edited July 31, 2000).]