Riddle me this Batman! Why did Val start to call me again after I dropped off the final paperwork? Or do I already know the answer?<P>She called me today at lunch. The second time in two days. More than I have spoken to her in the last 6 weeks.<P>She once again asked me "Are you ok"? "Yes, I'll be fine"<P>"Did you really do it"? [refering to the last paper my lawyer needed for completeing the D process] "Yes, I did, I told you that yesterday"<P>She wonders "What do we do now"? [I knew what she really meant, where does that leave us?, relationshipwise] I told her we don't have to do anything, the lawyer will take care of it all. He will have the judge sign it within 30 days and send us the final decree. Not what she wanted to hear. I'm not playing anymore.<P>She started telling me all kinds of things that are happening in her life, her car caught on fire, classes, stuff like that. It was obvious to the blind that she didn't want to hang up with me.<P>She thanked me for giving her a headache yesterday that lasted all night. I told her once again that was not my intention. I should have just written her a letter telling the end was near.<P>Said she hasn't seen me in a long time and it just upset her, not me, the situation. Told her I tried to call and she is never around. That she is not interested in me or the M and that's fine, I'll live.<P>I told her I had to get going, we were up in Nanticoke at Pizza Hut. [Extremely long distant call] That and, I thought to myself, it's a little too late in the game to want to be my friend and W.<P>I did tell her I was sorry that it had to end like this and that I truly do love her. She replied the same and got misty.<P>I said goodbye and she said see you later.<P>My future game plan: Fall off the face of the earth as far as she is concerned. Not to be nasty, but to continue contact would be the same as it is now. I'm out of the game. She is all Brian's now. He can deal with her and meet all her needs. Good luck to him.<P>Wishing us all the Best,<P>Tim

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> My future game plan: Fall off the face of the earth as far as she is concerned. Not to be nasty, but to continue contact would be the same as it is now. I'm out of the game. She is all Brian's now. He can deal with her and meet all her needs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's exactly how I see me going out of this. Sure, we will have to talk about the kids on occasion, but the small chit-chat won't do for me. <BR>"Sorry. Gotta go. The house is on fire."<BR>"Sorry. Gotta go. My girlfriend is all oiled up in the bedroom and getting a bit noisy without me."<BR>"Sorry. Gotta go 'cause we're divorced now.<BR>"Sorry. Gotta go. The cat just pooped on the dinner table."<BR>Take your pick...<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I think that the story that you are telling us is almost the norm, from what I am seeing. Looking back over he shoulder, seeing what she was standing to loose, all the sudden it's hitting home in a terrible way.<P>I don't blame you for wanting to get on with your life and start fresh. I commend you for standing your ground vigilantly. I know that you cannot be her friend any longer, after what she has put you through. You don't want to be hurt anymore, and you deserve not to be.<P>Understand that this is the usual thing, though, that sometimes the betrayer wakes up from the dream a little too late. You have progressed, and she is still lagging behind on the path, wondering what's going on. Be gentle on her, in your mind. This will be very hard on her from here on out.

Chris! You're a hoot! I've actually had cat poop on the dinner table, it wasn't too funny!

Chris...yes! I've just got to save that reply for later use (exchange boyfriend for girlfriend)<P>and Medic....Keep taking care of yourself. It's hard to give up our own obsession with them isn't it????<P>And look at me...I have to see my H frequently because of the kids... and I have to hear them talking to him and him making the plans with them that we were all supposed to do together (that he seems to have forgotton)<P>And let's not forget, that he has yet to really say anything to me about any problems except I liked a treee and he didn't and I slept late on a Sat. am. I mean really!!!<P>But since it took this long to get the Pa admission, I'm sure I'll never know.<P>He seems to just like to change his entire life every so often, leaving every bit of himself, except his body, with the previous owner!!!

Hey Chris,<P>Fortunatly the only "children" of our relationship are the two cats, TC [The Cat] and Patches, [I have custody] and the dog, Squiggy [she has custody]<P>Now that she is fully aware that the D train is moving full speed ahead, I do not feel the need to speak to her any longer. I know she didn't believe me yesterday. Today she did.<P>It was cut and dry. No fighting for property or vehicles. She got everything she wanted out of the house. She didn't even try for half of my business. Didn't even bother to get a lawyer of her own. Everything is going thru mine. <P>I did not and will not cheat her out of anything that is rightfully hers. I am not that way. I do not wish to hurt her because I believe the hurt will come by itself from within and probably has already started.<P>I have Caller ID on the home numbers and cell. Machine at the house and voice mail on cell. If it is urgent she can leave a message with the answering service and they can patch me thru.<P>Bernzini,<P>This is not about trying to punish her for what she has done to me. I have forgiven her in my heart, soul and mind.<P>This is about discontinuing the "have your cake and eating it too" I would love to hear her sweet voice everyday and would like to be friends with her someday. If I would start tomorrow the same vicious cycle would be ongoing. She would have the saftey of a commitment [with me] and the excitement of the A [with Brian]. This type of arrangement would not be mentally healthy for any involved.<P>If that is what I wanted, I would not have bothered to finish up the D.<P>I have had seen blood, guts and gore on an almost daily basis. I have had to tell family members that a loved one had passed. This is nothing in comparision to what I felt yesterday. Standing two feet away from the woman I love and telling her the D is near. I was ashen grey shaking like a leaf.<P>I don't want to hurt and don't want her to either. It didn't work out for us. No autopsy, no foul. It's just sad.<P>Zippy

Tim - this truly is very very very sad. It was so unecessary. She is such an avoider, that the avoiding has cost her and you the pain of now. <P>The only thing I can think, is she truly doesn't want to lose you forever, but she doesn't know how to stop avoiding, and she is the one that held the cards - and I think you are absolutely right - she will probably hurt pretty bad over this - unless she can come up with another game plan that medicates her pain - just like avoiding medicates her fears.<P>Wishing all the best in the world, Zip. You are wonderful, and talented - and the most real person that took the chance to reveal that to all of us here. You are very special, and may God Bless You.<BR>TNT

Medic238: I commend you in moving on with your life and completing this chapter in your life. Can I ask you something? When did you know it was over and it was time to close this door? Are you still deeply in love with your wife? How long did you continue to fight? I'm fighting till my hearts desire. Some days are much better than other. Then some days I can barely make it through. Some days I feel as though my H is right back with me on this road and others I feels as though he's running in the other direction. I just need to know from someone who finally said "enough" when it was you realized it was time. You are an inspiration. I hope I never get put in this position but if I ever did I hope I handle it as well as you. Any advice for a lost soul? LSM

Medic!<P>No,no, no, I totally understand, I am on your side. You stated it perfectly well, don't need to quote you. I feel the same way, that's why I am living with mom (and it sucks) but I am not going to be the cake while he's eating Meow-Meow. (What a visual.)<P>Time to get on with life--oh, but I love him so, always will. <P>Alas, I am in limbo, still. We talk divorce, but it doesn't happen because I am letting him do it--he had the affair, he has to do the dirty work. He still won't do it. Says he doesn't love Meow-Meow (unless he's talking to Meow-Meow.) But I am tired of waiting while he makes up his mind. Hopefully he will soon, while I still have some positive feelings for reuniting.<P>I am the restless kind of person, and this stagnation in life is really getting to me.<P>I hope that this is as easy on you as you are letting it seem. I hope that you are keeping busy and having fun, despite. You and your "kids."<P>You'll be friends again, someday, I am sure.<BR>

Oh Medic,<P>You are truly to be admired. I hope I don't have to go thru with a D, BUT if I had too, I pray I could model myself after you. Sounds like you definitely took the road less traveled. You should have no regrets, you did everything right and you gave it your all. I know God's face is shining down on you. <P>I really hope you're doing okay. This is probably the toughest decision you'll ever have to make, but you knew what you need to do and you did it. Very couragious heart you have, Tim.<P>I echo LSM's questions, how did you know it was time. Was it simply the discovery of her car at OM house the other morning?<P>Jo

Medic:<BR>I'm not as tired or as in shock as I was last night when I replied to you, so I'm going to back up a little bit and retract some of what I said....Retracting that Val held all the cards... No, you held some too!<P>1st of All, I am going to reiterate this "phrase".... Val was using "Avoidance" to medicate her fear....." - and here is something that SueB posted on the famous boundary thread in the women's bible study - I know it is sort of off topic for your thread, but then again - I believe the avoidant behavior that Val has issues with, is relative....<P>Here goes: (but I am editing because it is long!!!!!)<P><B>Withdrawal from Relationship</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Failing to make and keep connections is a serious character issue. T & C, p. 72<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Pulling away and avoiding to be open/vulnerable with one another can occur by one or both spouses. Reasons for this vary:<BR> <B>• Basic trust injuries<BR> • Fear that relationship will control them<BR> • Fear that relationship will hurt them<BR> • To feel free by cutting off relationship<BR> • To set limits by cutting off relationship</B><P><BR>Emotional Absence-withdrawal manifesting itself in this way can be seen in these examples:<BR> • Spouse is "there, but not there"<BR> • One spouse can give love and support, but not receive it.<BR> • one spouse, connected at one level, who disengages when the connection goes deeper and more emotional<P>(TNT ADDS: Can also be evident when there is non-honest communication, ie: lies!)<P>Most couples battle with the tendency to withdraw their hearts from one another as it <B>makes them feel safer and more protected.</B> <P>(TNT ADDS: Avoidance is kinda like Val medicating her "Fear?")<BR> <BR>For those who recognize themselves in these examples, here are some ways to disengage yourself from the withdrawal and avoidance behavior and to set boundaries on this tendency.<BR> • "Enlist the aid of your spouse. Ask him to let you know when he notices you pulling away. Ask him how it affects him. Does it hurt him? Make him lonely? Finding out how your avoidance influences others is a way to limit your disconnection."<BR> • "Discover why you withdraw. You could fear rejection, being controlled, or being judged. You could be punishing your spouse for hurting you. Understanding the reasons can help you set limits on this behavior." <BR> • "Say no to your tendency to avoid relationships, and expose yourself to others who can help you connect" (T & C, pp.72-73)<BR> • If you tend to withdraw, seek what is behind the behavior, a struggle to trust, fear of being controlled, or of being hurt. Does this withdrawing behavior help you to feel safer and more protected? <BR> <B>• If your spouse tends to withdraw, what might you do to help him first recognize and then set boundaries on that behvior?</B><P>You can read the entire thread on the Women's Bible Study Forum.....(grab coffee and get comfortable because now it is 6 pages long!!!)<P>TNT<P><BR>

Tim,<BR>I don't know what to say. I'm sorry or I'm happy that you can move along with your life now.<P>Bob<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

Hi Guys,<P>I wanted to thank you for your responses and support and will hopefully get back<BR>tonight to address them all.<P>We are getting KILLED here in the Valley. The ambulance has not sat still for<BR>more than 15 minutes. Musicfest is going on in Bethlehem with the drunks and physical<BR>altercations and the heat and humidity is causing the older folks to drop over. <BR>Business is TOO good for us.<P>I did want to try to answer some of the questions that LSM and Jo had asked<BR>now while I have a few minutes, I hope.<P>DISCLAIMER: THESE ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY AND NOT INTENDED TO IMPRESS UPON OR CHANGE YOUR MINDS. YOU ASKED. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.<P><B>When did you know it was over and it was time to close this door?</B><P>I tried my best to do a perfect Plan A with Val. I will admit my emotions<BR>sometimes took over and I lost it with her.<P>Last year on her Bday, I went out and got her a dozen heart shaped balloons<BR>with “I love you” on them, a dozen red roses, Happy Bday plates, napkins,<BR>plasticware, a big cake AND a diamond tennis bracelet [Even thou she doesn’t<BR>play tennis] I thought this was GREAT, she did not.<P>A few months ago she was ill and I took her two bowls of chicken noodle soup<BR>and some bread to her workplace, thoughtful, huh? [A Blessed Samantha's idea, I thought it was fabulous] It took me awhile to find a<BR>restaurant that had the soup. Had to hit four places. She was not impressed. <BR>“You never cared for me before” "Yeah.... right..." <in the voice of Dr. Evil><P>I tried everything I could think of. These were only two examples. All LB’s in her<BR>mind. Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting<BR>different results. [Plan A didn’t put a dent in our relationship] I tried a brief Plan B and couldn't do it. My heart melted when I saw her number on the Caller ID.<P>A lawyer friend of mine asked “What is the end result you are looking for?” Of<BR>course to have my Bunches come home, or was it? My end result is for me to be<BR>happy in this life. I don’t know if it will include Val or not. That is what I truly<BR>want. I want to be happy.<P>I don’t seem to be able to make her happy and she certainly isn’t making me<BR>happy now. I was/am being lied to by her and her parents and sister. I learned my life lesson. Time to move on.<P>And Jo, seeing the car there really didn’t affect my decision. It hurt like the dickens, oh yeah. Vals EN for<BR>affection is #1. Emotional and physical. I would be a bigger idiot than I am now<BR>to believe she wasn’t staying overnights.<P><BR><B>Are you still deeply in love with your wife?</B> <P>This is going to sound so strange to all of us betrayed. I do love her, but, am not<BR>in love with her. I certainly would not want anything bad to happen to her. I wish<BR>her no harm. I just lost that loving feeling. [I should write a song like that!] I was pushed away so many times. <BR>How often do you think you can kick a dog and expect him to come back to you<BR>when you call? Bad example, or is it? Fog or not. I tried to be the light house.<P><BR><B>How long did you continue to fight?</B><P>Discovery was March 13, 1999 at 0230. I asked her to leave immediately. She<BR>did comply, I lost my mind and she was frightened. I just finished an 18 hour<BR>shift and heard her talking sweetly to Brian on the tape. [I bugged the phone<BR>lines, felt a disturbance in the "force"] I initially said that I would be dead for two years before I gave up on the<BR>M. I feel that I have been emotionally dead for at least that long. I fulfilled my<BR>prophesy.<P><BR><B>I'm fighting till my hearts desire. Some days are much better than other. Then<BR>some days I can barely make it through. Some days I feel as though my H is<BR>right back with me on this road and others I feels as though he's running in the<BR>other direction.</B><P>I have traveled the exact same road. See some of my older posts. There were<BR>days where my precious Valerie had returned to her senses and others where<BR>the evil Val took over her body and mind. The rotten lousy roller coaster ride we have all experienced.<P><BR><B>You are an inspiration. I hope I never get put in this position but if I ever did I<BR>hope I handle it as well as you. Any advice for a lost soul? LSM</B><P>You are very kind, I do not feel like an inspiration. Just in the fact that I can say<BR>that life does go on after a D or at least the proceedings. I hope no one else<BR>would have to go through the pain and suffering of a D. That would of course be<BR>a foolish wish. I have made peace with myself and Valerie. I have forgiven her<BR>for her actions and pray that she has forgiven me for my part of the demise of<BR>the M.<P><BR>Advise, <P>Accept responsibility for your own actions, but, not theirs. We all have free will.<BR>Do not take it personally. This is a very selfish act on the part of the betrayer,<BR>sorry guys, you know damn well that it is.<BR>They are in the fog. We are in the fog.<BR>Step back and look at the situation.<BR>Answer the question, “What do you want as the final resolve?”<BR>Positive thinking, “You will be OK”<P>Since I made the decision to finish this M I have felt a sense of calmness and peace. I do not have to fight anymore. I will be ok. I do not think of her every waking moment or relive the past 12 years on a daily basis.<P>This relationship had to be put to rest. I have closed the door right now and will not be able to be buddy-buddy with her... now. She has a lesson to be learned and I can not help her. I will stand back and watch... hoping.. wishing her well.<P>I have not LOCKED the door. If that wonderful girl that I married every "wakes up" and comes knocking, I will answer.<P>Until then, I will live my life to the fullest. I hope you will as well. Do not place responsibility on someone else to provide you with happiness. It comes from within us all.<P>GADS, it almost sounds like I am maturing. I hope not!<P>Wishing us all the Best that life can offer.<P>Tim

Hi,<BR>I just had to drop in after reading your post.. because my H is playing at the festival !!! Well, I shouldn't tell you which band he's in but I just can tell you that the one with many attention from girls(sarcasm). If you see a red haired girl who looks like Scully from X-file just give her a slap for me..<P>****<P>I'm happy for your decision.. I feel I'm close to where you are now. Although I'm not filing, my H did these things and he didn't even pack his own things when he moved out.. This is the least he can do as taking a responsibility for his actions.<BR>Again, I'm happy for you that you are ready to move on. I wish you best for the future, and hope you will find a much better, honest person in your life.<BR>Meg <BR>