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Joined: May 2000
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This is kind of an academic question and of course none of us knows the answer for certain, but when do you think your WS stopped lying to you about the affair?<P>My own H, who I had never caught in any kind of lie in our previous 16 years of marriage lied during the affair, but that wasn't hard because I had no clue.<P>He gave some pretty incredible denials during the few hours of discovery. When I came up with a love note scribbled in a woman's writing and a new sweatshirt (in bag with tags) of our archrival team (gift he never gave her) in his car, he had to admit it. <P>The first words out of his lips were "well now you won't believe me when I tell you the truth."<P>Actually anything he did say about the affair I think was true, but believe me he hasn't said much.<P>What he then continued to lie about was contact. Although I think I did catch him walking away, and he was so accountable with his time, I don't think he ever saw her again, he did continue to call her from work.<P>We read SAA together, he agreed to no contact, I asked him every day for weeks if there had been contact (I thought she may have tried to call him)...and he lied and lied and lied.<P>Finally I found a phone card and knew...and I think phone contact finally stopped. Of course who knows? <P>Anyway, when did your WS stop lying to you? Discovery/confession? Recommitment? End of withdrawl? Is it unrealistic to think a WS CAN stop lying abruptly or do they need to work back into truthfulness?<P>And aside from trust issues in general, do you still have a tendency to evaluate their words and sift them for the truth?<P>I have to say I do andI wonder if I will ever stop doing that. I think my H is totally honest again, but if he says the sky is blue, I don't think I can help but just take a little peek for myself.

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This is something I will struggle with for a long time, even if my H decides to stay. He has lied almost every day in some way or another, even when I know for sure that he's lying. If he told me the sky was blue, I'd definately have to check it out for myself. That's how much I believe him right now!

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FHL<BR>How are you? I've been thinking of you.<P>What a question!<BR>H's 7-year "friendship" (filled with lies) became physical in Oct/Nov? '98.<BR>Discovery - Dec. 20 '98<P>When did the lying stop?<BR>The last major lie I caught him in was July 24th '99. Did it stop then? Who knows.<BR>All I know is that it was way too late. The affair supposedly ended in Feb. The lies about contact continued far too long.<P>The lies did much more damage than the affair. That is why I believe in the power of honesty. The affair...I can recover from. The lies? I'm not sure. Even now I wonder about everything. He programmed me to be suspicious...with his lies. No truth was told unless I had indisputable proof. <P>So now...does he give the true answer or what he thinks is the right answer? How does one trust when the boy has cried "wolf" too many times?

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Well, can't really pinpoint exactly. But, would have to guess that he stopped lying--about contact--around the 2 month post d-day point.<P>I still believe he's *lying* to this day regarding certain details. I think it's more his inability to *search* himself for the true answer than it is in his intentional willingness to deceive me at this point in time (did that make sense?).<P>Then again, I hate to be a *sucker*, and I firmly believe that you must never underestimate your opponent. So, I will never again be *surprised* at what I learn regarding my H's behavior...and will continue to have open ears/eyes regarding possible renewed contact. <P>However, I think I've *graduated* to the point where I can accept his weather forecast [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]. If he told me the sky was pink, purple, blue, orange-ish, yellowish, grey, or black, I'd probably question back, "does it look like rain?, is the sun rising/setting?, what's going on out there?". However, if he told me the sky was green with orange dots, I'd have to see for myself. Pretty good progress--don't ya think? <P>Peace, ~Marie<p>[This message has been edited by ohmy_marie (edited August 24, 2000).]

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Wasstubborn...I'm fine...really recovering from the spontanious rash I got at vet when putting dog to sleep. Talk about how emotions can affect you physically. Went in clear skinned and went out looking like a piece of raw meat from chin to tummy.<P>We need a long E-mail chat, but it may be few days until I have more than 5 minutes at a time to focus.<P>I am really more interested in how YOU are. Been thinking about you, too...so how 'bout mailing me?<P>

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One more question. What is more difficult to recover from...the lies or the affair?<P>For me, the lies.

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WOW, those are some really thought provoking questions!!!<P>I include not only answering questions that we may asks, but also being forthcoming with full disclosure as being honest, so in that regard I believe that very few WS' ever really stop lying. There are surely details that are purposely left out, and to me that is lying.<P>The lies and the affair hurt equally to me. Sometimes it seems that all of the lies is what sends me into a tailspin, but then when I think of them being together physically and how she told him things that she has never told me, then the affair seems to be the worst. Both suck!!

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Hmmmmm....well the affair was the BIG LIE...all the other lies were a result of the A.<P>What hurt me the most was my H's inability to ask me for what he felt he needed/was missing in our marriage.<P>~Marie

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This is exactly the topic we discussed in counseling yesterday. <P>My position is that, to me, the truth is one of those 100% things. Like being pregnant or not. So if I don't have 100% truth then that small percentage of deception is enough to make me question everything. <P>My H says he is telling the truth now. Who knows??? I told him in counseling that the deception would be what would kill our marriage. Not the affair. He claims to be telling the truth. Our problem with the "truth" is this... He has lied for so long that he even began to deceive himself. So, now to bring that truth out is difficult. He has to untangle a lot of junk in his mind. <P>Also, he has lived his life in "survival mode" and has walked around avoiding conflict. So sometimes I think he is tempted to do this in order to avoid my reactions.<P>FHL, I don't know if he is telling the truth. I do know that he seems to be more open in general and seems to be trying really hard. This is different from when he was still a "known liar". If he is still deceiving me at this point, I am nominating him for an Oscar. <P>I think a big part of it for me is to learn not to deceive myself. I'm trusting my instincts (as I should have long ago). I put more stock in this than his words. And I put more stock in his ACTIONS than I do his words. <P>Will I ever be so trusting of his words that I would bet my child's life on them? Doubt it.

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This is a really good thread for me. I really relate to Marie's observation about a ws who will not search himself. At first I thought my h wouldn't. Now, I think maybe he can't.<P>I think my h's lies about contact ended pretty quickly for various reasons. However, he had adopted a lifestyle where he saw things he wanted to see and ignored things that weren't "convenient". This pattern continues in some respects. Especially early on, he lied even to himself and to our therapist about his feelings and reactions so lying to me naturally followed. He also lied about details of the affair that he decided didn't really matter and that would just cause me "more pain" and HIM MORE TROUBLE. Unfortunately, our therapist encouraged these "white lies." I think she was way off base there because total honesty was really important to me in restoring trust. Therapy ended months ago, thank goodness. It helped tremendously for several months, but then reached the point of more pain than gain.<P>I don't think my h will get involved again with ow (who now hates him). Also, I don't think he will lie to me unless he has first lied to himself, but that is about as far as I have come. He is a man who previously had been incredibly honest.<P>It's hard to say which hurt more - his devotion to another woman or his lies to cover and to manipulate. Reading about men in midlife crisis has helped me to live with some of his choices and manipulations, but it will take years before I fully trust in his judgment. Interestingly, I read just yesterday that this behavior is typical even of Christian men in mlc; that mlc lasts 3-5 years; and the average time for onset is 40-41 and for ending, 44-45. My h fits these age statistics perfectly. I believe his difficulty with self examination and complete honesty may be because, although he is well out of withdrawal, he has not completely grown out of the mlc. Could we be dealing with a problem even bigger than our marriage and the op?

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The lies are harder to get over than the A. I can forgive the A, but the lies show just how little my H respects me right now. His theory, is that if he doesn't respond when I ask him a question, then he's not lying. Not telling the truth, but not lying.....

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It was the lies that killed it for me. First it was that she put the ring om gave her in a safe deposit box. I later found out she left it in there for only a week. Also the continued lies about not talking to him at work.<P>I think she is still lying or trying to. She said she took a pay cut in changing jobs when we were "discussing" child support. But she forgets the cs was based on her part-time wages of 98. She is now working full time plus. I know she didn't take that much of apay cut.<P>I think I caught her in another lie today. She is going away this weekend(even though it's her weekend with the kids) and was supposed to be around for them leaving for the first day of school Mon. She called and left a message that she has to work Mon. I think she is just extending her weekend and won't show up to see the kids off.<P>I'm like somebody else, I don't really believe her if she tells me the sky is blue.


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