H finally admitted his A a couple of weeks ago. Since then, he has wanted to talk about it a lot. He has also wanted to talk about our marriage and what went wrong.<P>He apologized profusely about allowing this to happen. We are separated (about 6 weeks now). He continues to be involved in EA- waiting for OW to leave her H before trying to have a "normal" relationship. He has not verbally committed to our marriage, but has stated that he wants to work on our relationship- we will need to be able to trust each other and communicate because of the kids, regardless of what happens with us.<P>We have seen each other almost every day since he moved- or have talked on the phone. Many of these times have involved deep, meaningful conversations. There have also been times that we spent several hours together then he called after he left and we talked on the phone more. Ther have also been just relaxing times, playing with the kids.<P>H has said that he will answer any questions that I have about what's going on now. One day last week, she was supposed to call him and he left here with some stupid excuse about why he was leaving. When he returned, I told him that I didn't think I wanted to know every contact, but I definitely didn't want him lying to me. If we are working on building trust, that wouldn't work. He agreed and said that he would be honest. I believe that he has been since then.<P>My question, how much do I really want to know? He has agreed to tell me anything I think I want to know, including every phone conversation,etc. I find myself wondering and driving myself crazy- every time he is not here or not on the phone with me, he has to be talking to her. Their situation is that her H suspects, so she is being very careful. She will not communicate with him on her home phone, so he has to allow her to contact him- he has no real way of getting in touch with her. He has not had an easy time with this and apparently, she is not very reliable with her calls- she tells him she will call at a certain time and a lot of times it is several hours or even days before she actually does (this is very good for me- I am almost too dependable).<P>When I am in one of those wondering phases, I usually will ask what's going on and he tells me. It is never as bad as I have made it in my mind. So, at this point, we have agreed that he will honest with me- which means that there are times that he will be volunteering info about her or them (if she calls while he is here, or if he leaves or delays coming here waiting for her to call,etc.) He will answer any questions I have, or if it is uncomfortable, he will tell me that- no more hiding, avoiding stuff, leading me to believe something that is not true. He is really trying hard to do this, but points out that it hard because he tried so hard to hide that A for such a long time, that lies and half truths are kind of natural to him at this point. He hates this about himself. If she leaves her H or something major, he will tell me immediately, without waiting for me to ask. Oh-by the way, he is lying to her about the amount of contact that he has with me. I sometimes feel like I'm the OW now.<BR> <BR>Do I want to know more than that? Do I want to know that much, or should I just pay attention to how he is when he is with me?<P>Or maybe I should not allow him to be here every day- I am still meeting a lot of his needs. I am not anxious to back off, because it's only been recently ( since his admission) that I feel that we have made any progress at all.<P>Can you tell I'm confused? Can anybody offer any suggestions as to why he seems to trying to meet my needs, communicating more and things like that? Guilt about the A? Maybe trying to decide if the marriage might work but not ready to get rid of OW? Trying to butter me up so I won't be all angry and full of resentment if we divorce?<P>I know this is long- got a little carried away. What do y'all think?<P>

Hi Cloudy,<P>Love your name, it sort of describes how everything feels all the time when you're in this mess.<P>My guess is that your good qualities are looking even better to your husband by comparison to the other woman. You are reliable and honest, she is definitely not. He will soon start resenting her because he has been honest with you about the affair, but whe refuses to do the same with her husband. You seem to be doing all the right things.<P>I do want to share some advice given to me and my husband by a very good counselor this week regarding sharing information. She stated that it is vitally important to be completely honest about the scope of the affair, i.e. if the involvement is physical, if they are "in love", if they plan to leave the marriage, etc. She also advised that we not get caught up in all the details, i.e. how many times they had sex, what they said to each other, etc. Her reason is that all those things create images that make the whole situation harder to deal with and heal from. I completely agree, this time.<P>My husband first confessed his affair in Sept. of 1999 and I asked for and got far too many details. It truly interferred with the healing process and added to my anger and resentment. A month ago, I found out the affair had picked back up again and I am handling it much better this time.<P>Your husband's willingness to be open and honest with you is one of the most positive signs you could have that there is hope for recovering from this. I wish my husband had been the same, but he has not been. He claims he is being completely truthful this time, but it is very difficult to be able to trust that he is. Time will tell.<P>Wishing you all the best,<P>Peppermint<p>[This message has been edited by peppermint (edited September 16, 2000).]

Peppermint-<BR>I've been following your story and the recent developments. You and Firestorm are in my thoughts and prayers, but I think you two will make it this time.<P>I think that my H and OW have been planning to each leave their marriages- will not move in together because of kids. Apparently, OWs H has been abusive on a couple of occasions and she is afraid of him. Also, she thinks he will tell her kids whats been going on and become very vindictive. They are planning to try for a "normal" relationship when they are free. My H seems to be coming out of the fog a little. He has been trusting me with things about her and their relationship that she would never speak to him again about if she knew we discussed. I am trying to be patient- hoping that either she never leaves and he gets impatient with waiting or that she does leave and he sees that it won't work. I know it won't- she is a stay at home mom, my H is having trouble financially supporting himself- much less her and her 2 kids. She is already questioning him about his involvement with me and pushing him to not spend time here. He will always spend time here because of the kids. He has only taken them to his house 2 times and both of those were very brief. They don't want to go. They do want him to be here with them, so that is how he is spending time with them. He ignored them big time when the A was hot and heavy. He has reconnected with them and I don't think he will let that happen again. She apparently is afraid her H will find out about the A, so their communication has gone from 7-8 phone calls a day in May to 2-3 a week now. <P>I realize that if she were to move out tomorrow, their relationship would probably pick up pretty quickly where it lift off, but for right now, H is trying to meet my needs, is thanking me for things I do for him, is looking at me when we talk, expressing interest in my daily activities, reconnected with the kids etc. I do think I am making huge depostis in his love bank right now. I've been trying for a long time, but he wouldn't really let me.<P>I guess what I am really wondering now, is do I ask him to tell me each contact he has with her (he says he's willing) or just try to keep things as they are?<P>And what could his motivation be for the recent changes? He is still amazed at my reaction to all this. Frankly, so am I. He tells me all the time that he feels safe here and that he can tell me anything. I guess thats a step in the right direction. He has said several times that he really thought that when I found out about his A, that I would yell and scream and throw things (I've never done this), throw him out and do everything I could to keep him from seeing the kids. I think this is the OW talking and it is another LB on her part to convince him that I will say or do something that he knows is just not in my nature- especially when the situation actually happens and I don't handle it all like she predicted.<P>How are things with you and Firestorm?

Cloudy,<P>I feel led to post to your comment only because in so many ways, I see myself, and<BR>my relationship w/ OM that I have been seeing..My H knows about my A, and the OM<BR>knows of his wifes A (which was why he left<BR>her to begin with) and she knows that he and I have had a relationship since they seperated. My H doesn't know I have been talking to OM for months though..he believes it's been over..(only because I have<BR>let him believe that) and I feel horrible about it, but like your H says..it becomes a<BR>habit..and it's hard to break..not wanting to hurt the other person anymore than you have..<BR> My relationship w/ the OM has been mostly and EA, with a few times PA, each time w/ more regrets, because it's not what I wanted..I was trying to encourage him to work <BR>on his marriage, and learn to "date" his wife, but he was hurting so deeply, he didn't really try. I notice him pulling away, and he<BR>and I do not talk like we used to, and thats what I miss the most..the talking..and I know that He enjoyed the same thing in our relationship..the long talks..something that<BR>was/is missing in both our marriages..I would challenge him to think about things, that were his fault in leading to her A, like the long hours away at work, what was more important, work or time w/ his family..and why did he feel the need to work so many hours, and why did he feel he couldn't discuss these things w/ her. I would ask these same questions to my own H, and not get a response..and after months of waiting on a response, I still don't get one..<P>But, I guess is what I am trying to say is, enjoy the time that you have with your H, and<BR>don't worry about the OW, just take the time<BR>and rebuild the trust with your H, and if the <BR>OW loves your H, as he thinks..she will want him to be happy no matter what..even at the cost of her own broken heart..I know that as for my feelings for the OM, I love him enough to let him go, and if he chooses to go back to his W, or not, is not my decision, if he does decide to do that, then all the better, for him, her, and their children...I just want him to be happy with whatever he decides to do..just as I know he wants the same for me..<P>As for my own marriage, I don't see it working out,(and I too am a stay home mom)<BR>another reason your post hit me.. I know that if I were working today, and had I been working 3 years ago, and even 5 years ago, I'd be divorced already..which is why I have given up a dream of many years to get my college degree, and looking for a job, so that I can finally move on w/ my life, with <BR>or without the OM in my life..<P>I know that I am not the OW in your H's life, <BR>but your post hit me..and I hope that the OW in your life loves your H as much as I love the OM in mine..in wanting him to be happy with You, or with whatever decision "HE" makes for his life in the future..<P>My prayers are with you, that you two will be<BR>able to save your marriage..just as I hope the OM that has been in mine finds the happiness he so desires..

ThornedRose-<BR>You scared me there for a minute. I sometimes have a fear that she reads this board- probably not but I wonder anyway.<P>Thank you for your thoughts. When I'm not obsessing about whether he is talking to her or seeing her, I am actually enjoying my H- more than in a long time.<P>Other thoughts or insights?

Cloudy,<P>Didn't mean to spook you there, although<BR>as I read your post I felt it could have been<BR>from the OM's wife as well. <P>I guess in some ways I am sorry I am not the OW in your h's life, then you would at least have peace of mind that she was willing to step aside that you two could be happy together..and work on your marriage..but, I am also glad that I am not, because I wouldn't want to hurt you that way..<P>But, as I said, just enjoy the time you have w/ your H, and if he wants to share with you<BR>things about his relationship w/ the OW listen to him..as he shares things about her<BR>let him know you realize how hard it must be for him..and there will probably be things that you care not to hear, but listen to him as he shares, and you will grow closer to him..and let him know that you see why she loves/cares about him and doesn't like the thought of giving him up..because those are all qualities that made you fall in love with him years ago. <P>If there are things he shares with you about her, let him know (if you do understand) how he could care about her, and how hard it must be for him, knowing that he being the caring man he is with not wanting to see her hurt..but he also needs to understand that he can't be her knight in shining armour..she has to decide for herself if she wants to stay married to this man herself and he can't make that decision for her..maybe suggest to him that if she is afraid of her spouse that <BR>she should find a shelter for abused women..and that they can help her more than he could <P>

Cloudy,<P>Perhaps your husband is beginning to doubt that the other woman will actually leave her husband, and he wants to open the door for a possible reconciliation with you. If he is like most betrayers (and betrayeds) he is very confused and uncertain about what he really wants.<P>As to having him tell you all about each communication he has with the other woman, I think you should do what makes you feel better. Does hearing about it help or hurt you and the way you feel about your husband? Let that guide your decision.<P>Firestorm and I are surviving, and I feel myself getting stronger each day. Thanks for asking.<P>Peppermint

Hearing about communication between them hurts- I won't deny that. But at the same time, I think I generally "know" when they have been in contact and that hurts just as much. I think what I would like to do is work on the trust issue. As long as he is comfortable telling me and I can handle it in a non-LB way, I would like for him to tell me. The lies surrounding an affair and covering up and hiding stuff is almost more painful than the affair itself. We are spending so much time together that if he is waiting for her to call or something, it's pretty obvious. If I get to the point that I can't handle it, I will need to put some distance between us so I don't know so much about his daily activities. I don't want him to continue to lie and hide stuff. He probably is doing that with her to some extent- I don't want him doing that with me anymore. <P>Something happened between them Friday night. He had to work Sat. and came here when he got off. We went out last night (family thing) and he spent the night here. He just left a few minutes ago and is coming back in a little while. I haven't asked what happened and he hasn't brought it up. I don't want to be pushy, but he probably doesn't want to volunteer info. unless I ask. I haven't asked yet- he's not been in a very talkative mood. Maybe later tonite we can talk about it. I want him to be able to trust me with this stuff.

Cloudy,<P>Sorry your hurting watch him struggle, with<BR>what he is going through..I guess you could<BR>ask him if he'd like to talk about..or atleast say something to the effect that<BR>if you need to talk..I'm hear..and leave it at that..and when he's ready he'll open up..<P>I wish mine were as easy...

Well, I didn't specifically ask him what happened Fri., but I did tell him that he seemed a little down and that I didn't want to push, but if he wanted to talk that I'm here for him. He said he wasn't in the mood to get into it, but he could never explain to me how much it meant to him that I was willing to listen and was there to support him.<P>He came over when he got off work Sat. afternoon, left for about an hour Sun. afternoon, then came back until about 8:30. All this time, no cell phone!<P>I know that this is nothing major- sometimes, he just kind of suffocates with all the stuff going on right now and gets depressed. He is never in the mood to talk about it while it's going on, but in a couple of days he will tell me about it. He also seems to get spooked or something when we "connect" like we did this weekend. He will be a little more distant for a day or two.<P>Does this happen with anyone else?