Crazy? - NO<BR>Human? - YES!!!<P>The sort of things you wish for with your wife are things that I'm sure we all think of from time to time.<P>I know that I've often said to my husband (before the affair) that it would be nice if we could find a way to break the 'bedroom routine' we seemed to have fallen into.<BR>He was so glad that I felt that way, as he did too but was afraid to say.<BR>The usual obsticals will always be there though...kids, work, courses, schedules, etc...<BR>It's hard not to feel rejected - even when the circumstances are beyond anyone's control.<P>How old are your children?<BR>Is there anyone who could take them for a weekend sleepover?<BR>Perhaps your wife would be open to the idea of a romantic weekend at home ALONE?<P>I know that's one of the things my husband has been asking to do more of since we started trying to work things out.<P>I'm glad that you have your faith to help you through this trial...it would be so much more difficult for you if you didn't.

I can't say I have always kept my faith through this. I have been brought back to my faith because the other ways (that humans naturally do) don't work. It is wrong to expect that you should only have peace in your heart IF ONLY she/he would change. That is not the way God made us. He made us to find our satisfaction in knowing Him alone.<P>My kids are 8 and 5. <P>I am the 'Fixer' and have tried almost everything you can imagine and run up against the wall. So, I have no choice but to rely on God even though it goes against my nature to do so. I don't like it, but what else can you do if you have done everything else?<P>

You're right, we can't expect to find peace in our hearts or minds through others - it sould come from within.<BR>My neighbor would say it can only come if you are at peace with yourself AND GOD. (my neighbor is a pastors son, and we have had a few discussions about God of late)<BR>Sometimes though, you have to work with others to be able to find that inner peace...like the way you and your wife talk to one another - doesn't it calm you inside when you feel truely understood by her? <BR>I'm not suggesting that she become something unnatural to herself in order for you to find peace - I'm saying the higher the level of understanding, the easier acceptance will be, therfor contributing to a more peaceful state.<P>Ok, now I feel like the one who's babbling.<BR>Did that make any sense?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B>doesn't it calm you inside when you feel truely understood by her? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes and no. <P>

SD - <P>Good Morning! <P>My wife and I have reached a point in our marriage where we don't get so offended by the things we say to each other. Just last night I said that maybe when she gets offended by something I say it could be because she has heard it through years of notions and interpreted my messages accordingly. Instead our typical reaction is to believe the person meant to hurt us with words. <P>Make sense?

Hello SD & Dogbert<P>You guys make so much sense. Dogbert, I understand what you mean by change in lovemaking etc.<P>One day I asked my husband frankly (we don't feel icky in those situations like talking frankly) about his opinion of our present sex life. He said that everything is good. Our technics are good and my part in it is just so satisfying. But you know what he misses? Me wearing fancy negligees and cute stuff like that!<P>I used to wear them at the beginning of our relationship (now 5 years), but since I had my son four years ago, I never lost the weight. Instead, I gained some more pounds and became so accutely aware of those added pounds that I refused to wear anything sexy. I began hiding from him when I had no clothes on. I don't even undress in front of him anymore and I told him why (a month ago). He understands, but I can't help but feel so "un-sexy" and feel that he sees me as that. <P>I began a weight loss program (one of many failed ones)a few weeks ago and I think I've lost maybe two inches around the waist and hips. But there is so much more to lose. I'm signing up at the gym this month-end and hopefull will begin to lose more. It takes such a long time.<P>Dogbert, maybe you could buy your wife something not too revealing at first, as an I love you gift. You could gently suggest that she wear it for you because you love her so much and want to please her. Maybye at first, you don't have to ask her to take it off with you watching, but you could work your way around to that about a week later. Then each month, buy her another one of another color, more and more revealing each time, until one night, she takes the initiative and starts the whole thing. Who knows, she might even go out and buy some herself and surprise the life outta you!!<P>It's worth a try!!<BR>GOD BLESS<P>------------------<BR>CPL

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dogbert:<P>My wife and I have reached a point in our marriage where we don't get so offended by the things we say to each other. Just last night I said that maybe when she gets offended by something I say it could be because she has heard it through years of notions and interpreted my messages accordingly. Instead our typical reaction is to believe the person meant to hurt us with words. <P>Make sense?[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good Morning to you Dogbert.<P>I understand exactly what your saying!<BR>It will be so nice when my husband and I have come as far as you and your wife.<BR>We are currently at the stage where we're working to change the old thought patterns.<BR>We're CAREFULLY bringing up the difficult subjects and reminding eachother that although the subject may be painful to discuss we are not out to cause more suffering or pain by bringing it up.<BR>We ask questions to be sure we understand what the other is saying, and talk about our feelings. Then we attend a therapy session together to try and resolve whatever issue came from the discussion.<BR>At this point that process helps us to understand eachother without the pressure of having to solve the problem, and helps us to break the hurtful old habits. It also keeps us from the many unresolved conflicts that we were having before we began to see a therapist.<P>On another note, I printed this conversation the other day and took it home for my husband to read.<BR>It took him a while to get through it all, but he said that he found it very helpful to read your opinions and perspectives. He felt that you clarified some things that he had been struggling to understand about himself, and was relieved to find that someone else has issues similar to his own. <BR>Thank you again for sharing your thoughts with us - you have become quite a touchstone to us both. <BR>

Caribgirl,<BR>Hi there.<BR>Something to think about...<BR>Sexy is a concept - not a tangible.<BR>For 2 people in love who share a strong physical bond sexy is the idea of what it is like when they're together. It has very little to do with the actual physical attributes of one or the other. It's more about confidence, openness and trust. (at least in my opinion)<BR>The idea of 'cute outfits' is a good and even fun one for a relationship that is on solid ground. I know my husband has often expressed an interest in that sort of thing.<BR>The problem is the pressure that's presented when something like that is introduced to a relationship that has intimacy issues. I know that if my husband were to ask that of me now, my insecurity would get the better of me and I would feel like I was competing with a fantacy instead of becoming one. Does that make sense to you?<P>Dogbert...what do you think?<BR>

Carib-<P>Take it from a guy who's lost 70 pounds - at least twice - that you can do it. I have been thin for over two years now and it really does take a lifestyle change. And I do mean <B>life</B>style change.<P>Sexy to me does mean more than dress. Dressing is part of it. But, it isn't so much that I expect the naughty stuff to be worn, I just want something revealing worn. I think the biggest problem for my wife is just remembering to wear it. I know. I know. She has a full-time job as mother. But it would speak volumes of love to me if the things were worn on a regular basis (once a month / even twice a month) or more than once right after it is given. I think the other issue with that is when a woman puts that stuff on she is obviously saying, "I am ready." That may be more of a scary issue than being afraid it reveals a body that you feel is unsexy.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B> but he said that he found it very helpful to read your opinions and perspectives. He felt that you clarified some things that he had been struggling to understand about himself, and was relieved to find that someone else has issues similar to his own. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If he surfs the net you ought to have him join us. I would be glad to provide moral support about the pornography issue.<P>

Dogbert,<BR>Once I get the system up and running again at home he is planning on joining this forum.<BR>He's already asked if I'd 'introduce' the two of you - he says he has some ideas/issues that he'd like to run past you before he and I discuss them...Thank you for offering your support - we're both grateful.<BR>If the kids cooperate this weekend, I may be able to get enough loaded to run explorer...if I do I'll post and let you know.<BR>Do you have access during the weekend?

Great. Bring him on.<BR>Yes I have access during the weekend. <P>BTW - Are you 2 believers? I don't if I asked you.

Hi SoDuped<P>Thanks for your opinion. I didn't mean to sound like sexy outwardly means all.<P>It's just that for me, that's the issue I'm dealing with. Let's just say that I've always been considered sexy since my teen-age days, and my idea of that has not really changed. Just my body has changed and I can't seem to get past that bulk (in more ways than one!)<P>I know it's a concept, but it has tremendous influence on my self-confidence where my husband's concerned. I know he thinks I'm sexy still, but I thought I could improve a bit, you know, put even more sparks in the bedroom (although we steam it up pretty good on a regular basis!!)<P>Thanks for your imput.<P>TO: DOGBERT<BR>Thanks for your imput as well. I know all about the weight thing. I congratulate you on the fact that you've lost 70 pounds and twice!! I would like to lose 50 pounds just once - is that asking too much? Well, I think I'm ready mentally - at least I'm visiting the gym this afternoon after work, and signing up at the end of the month.<P>Maybe then I could get some of those little things. But it's tru, my husband would like to see me in more lingeree. He doesn't pressure me, he only told me once, and that was because I asked.<P>Keep up the good work.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Caribgirl:<BR><B>I would like to lose 50 pounds just once - is that asking too much? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Of course not.<P>Here are some things to remember:<P>1) Keep always in your mind what you want to look like and feel like. This should be your driving force. It should be visualized when you are out to eat and are deciding whether to order the lasagna or the herb chicken. <P>2) Remember that once the weight is off your body will try to put it on. So, a change in diet for the rest of your life is in order and so is exercise. You have to BECOME an active person and not just someone who hates to exercise.<P>3) A pound is equal to 3500 calories. You must burn more than you take in.<P>4) Aerobic exercise is the key to taking off weight. Exercise no less than 30 minutes. Walking, basketball (girls play yes?), running, cycling (my personal favorite!) or treadmill (ugh!). It is only after 20 minutes of continuous aerobic activity that your body stops using the carbohydrates you have eaten for its energy source to continue exercising. After 20 minutes the body begins to use the fat stores on your body for fuel.<P>5) It is important to cut back on carbs, and eat carbs when you know you are going to be exercising soon enough to burn them off.<P>Here is a link to some info you may care about. On Lance Armstrong's web site there is an article about calories in vs. calories out. <A HREF="http://www.lancearmstrong.com/greenbook.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.lancearmstrong.com/greenbook.html</A> <P>

Dogbert...<BR>Yes, we're both believers, although due to the AA influence Joe considers himself to be more spiritual than religious.<BR>It can sometimes be an obstical, but not often.<P>Caribgirl...<BR>Didn't mean to sound judgemental there...sorry.<BR>I do have an idea of what you're going through though...when I was pregnant with my first I gained 85lbs.<BR>That was a tough one to accept as I started at 105lbs.<BR>When I had the baby I only lost 20 lbs or so - I was soooo disappointed - I was somehow expecting to walk out of the hospital in my pre-pregnant clothes!!<BR>It took over a year to loose most of the weight...and then I was pregnant again!<P>It takes time to get back into shape, but you CAN do it!!<BR>Kathy Smith after pregnancy workouts are great...you can do them at home, and she really knows how to target the tough areas...They worked really well for me.<P>Good luck - You CAN do it!!<P>

I am going to make both of you sick. There is a friend of mine who is about to deliver baby #3. I looked at her Sunday and she said she would have her flat tummy in about 2 months. She said she had only gained 8 pounds (all baby)! The first baby she gained 35 pounds and the doctor told her it wasn't necessary to gain much weight.<P>Don't you hate that?

Yup...I hate that.

.<p>[This message has been edited by Dogbert (edited March 17, 2001).]

I have been reading the book called <I>Boundaries</I> today. My wife has read most of the book and I am getting interested in it as well. Anyway, it talks about many things related to how we relate to people.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>"Sherrie became exquisitely aware of his (husband) moods, and especailly senstive to things that could set him off: lateness, disagreements, and her own anger. As long as she was quiet and agreeable, things went well. But let her preferences raise their ugly heads and she risked getting her head lopped off.<P>Sherrie learned to read Walt well, and quickly. After sensing that she was crossing an emotional line, she would employ Stage two of "Loveing Walt": She did an immediate backtrack. Coming around to his viewpoint (but not really), quitely holding her tongue, or even outrightly apologizing for being "hard to live with" all helped.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I read that and thought this could go either way. And I'll bet you there are millions of men are in this boat with their wives. I know I have been for years watching and seeing what her emotional state of being might be and acting accordingly in order to maintain the peace. I allowed her to control the temperature of the relationship with her anger or emotional withdrawal. Sometimes (many times) her anger was justified but there have been many times it was not and because of my fear I would give in to keep peace. Thankfully now she is dealing with her anger.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>"Fear of being alone keeps many in hurtful patterns for years. They are afraid that if they set boundaries they will not have any love in their life."<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I like the above quote as well. It has been my fear of losing intimacy or love that kept me from dealing with my dissatisfaction in a straightforward way and instead I kept it all inside. And when this other woman came along I fell for her hook, line and sinker. I think this insecurity of mine is also how I allowed myself to fall into pornography addiction.<P>Of course the addiction it my choice and it is a sinful choice. But the reasoning behind my doing it, the strong pull of it has had a lot to do with this fear of losing love if I were to deal with my dissatisfaction head on. So the easy choice was to leave it as is and try to have my emotional need met through pornography. Which never works by the way.<P>I have never stood up for what I wanted ly because of the fear of losing love. I can remember it has only been in the past 3 years I have been able to say to myself, "Yeah whatever" when she gets mad at me and not feel internally that she was ripping my heart out. (And I don't mean on subject related to sex. I just mean in general.)<P>So now comes the difficult decisions. How do you state what you want and allow the uncomfortable emotions come? I know that in the meantime I am relying on the Lord as much as possible but I don't think I should sit idly by and do nothing. On the other hand I don't think I should let my dissatisfaction drive me to insanity the way it has most of my marriage.<P>I was telling the Lord just the other morning that way back when we first were married that I didn't have the ability to deal and talk with her about my feelings regarding our unsatisfactory sex life (at least in my view). And what I did early on to soothe the pain was to turn to pornography. I told Him I wish I had dealt with it properly and now I asked Him to provide me with the wisdom to deal with it the way I should have back then.<P>Oh well. I am rambling now.<P><BR>

Dogbert,<BR>Yahoo!!!! (as we say where I live)<BR>I'm finally up and running at home.<BR>Ok, so it's really late Sunday evening, and my husband is now sleeping...but this system is finally behaving!! (it was a long haul...Granny even took the kids to give me more time to tinker...)<BR>As soon as my husband & I are able we will get him a membership and introduce you two. He's very much looking forward to talking with you.<P>I found the quotes you shared (by the way...how do you do that?) from the Boundaries book to be interesting...I'd have to say that I've become the thermometer in our relationship lately. Since the affair came to light, my husband has been almost forced into a 'reactive position'.<BR>By that I mean reacting to any given situation more based on my mood than his own feelings on the matter.<BR>I honestly have no idea how he feels about that.<BR>Would I be in denial if I were to say it was a temporary situation due to the after effects of finding out that he's been with another woman? Hmmm - need to spend some time on that one.<P>As for the pornography issue...<BR>There has been more fallout on the subject this weekend.<BR>My husband has done nothing in terms of adding to the problem, more that my own head has been having difficulty.<P>I've been feeling so angry and resentful - it's been eating away at me for days. <BR>There I was thinking we had handled it all so well...until we started talking about it this morning. <BR>I didn't realize I was so angry. The poor man has no idea what to do with me. Heck, I have no idea what to do with me. Hence the fact that he's upstairs slumbering, and I'm here, in front of the computer...yet again.