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#404957 03/23/01 12:37 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dogbert:<BR><B> <BR>I think you could be correct. I feel I am having to keep at bay my anger and hurt over all this. <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If your wife is aware of your anger and hurt it's possible that she's feeling guarded as a result which would intensify whatever issue she has about herself. Do you have any idea what it could be?<P>Caribgirl has a good point...She may BE beautiful, but not FEEL beautiful.<BR>Or, she may think that you don't see her as beautiful...?<P>For women, it's easy to fall into that kind of self doubt when our confidence or esteem is at a low level - Happens to me all the time.

#404958 03/23/01 02:30 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B> If your wife is aware of your anger and hurt it's possible that she's feeling guarded as a result which would intensify whatever issue she has about herself. Do you have any idea what it could be?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This all could be true. All I know about the 'night-light' issue is that she says it is not "romantic" at all. She likes the mere outlines of our bodies. Gee, writing this I feel stupid. I think I reacted more out of the 10 years worth of pain than the actual issue. She told me yesterday that she had made the effort to make me not feel like I had to (my words) extort sex out of her. And then I ruined it with the light issue.<P>She agrees with me that she has several sexual 'triggers' and is going to continue with the counselor to figure 'em out.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She may BE beautiful, but not FEEL beautiful.<BR>Or, she may think that you don't see her as beautiful...?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How can this be when I tell her how pretty she is, how nice her hair looks, that her eyes are still as beautiful as they were when we met, that she looks pretty or nice in her clothes, etc. I mean, I don't overdo it, but I certainly make sure that I let her know how I feel. And it is not something I have to "remember" to do. I just feel it and tell her. Her body and mine go together so well and we both know how to please each other. But, man it is hard to get there.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For women, it's easy to fall into that kind of self doubt when our confidence or esteem is at a low level - Happens to me all the time.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You have even more reason.<P>Hey, your husband has been responding. That is a pretty good sign. What did you think about my response your "anger" question?<P>

#404959 03/23/01 05:28 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> <BR>Gee, writing this I feel stupid. I think I reacted more out of the 10 years worth of pain than the actual issue. She told me yesterday that she had made the effort to make me not feel like I had to (my words) extort sex out of her. And then I ruined it with the light issue.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hey...you figured it out - FAR from stupid in my books.<BR>So...are you going to talk to her about it?<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>How can this be when I tell her how pretty she is, how nice her hair looks, that her eyes are still as beautiful as they were when we met, that she looks pretty or nice in her clothes, etc. I mean, I don't overdo it, but I certainly make sure that I let her know how I feel. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The fact that you say it doesn't mean she believes it.<BR>If I'm feeling good about myself and my husband gives me one of the above compliments, I can say thank you...look in the mirror and say to myself...'He's right...I DO look good.'<BR>But...If I'm feeling low I end up looking in the mirror and thinking...'Where is he getting that...my eyes are all puffy and tired looking.'...or 'I hate this outfit...he must be just saying that.'<BR>Do you see my point?<BR>It may not be the case with your wife...but it is a possibility.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Hey, your husband has been responding. That is a pretty good sign. What did you think about my response your "anger" question?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're right...it's a great sign!<BR>Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with him.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR> What did you think about my response your "anger" question?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>To tell you the truth I was surprised to hear it...I'm not sure why...but I was.<BR>I posted some more questions for you in that thread...I hope you don't mind.<P>

#404960 03/23/01 11:12 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B> To tell you the truth I was surprised to hear it...I'm not sure why...but I was.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This curious to me. I wonder why you were?<P>

#404961 03/24/01 07:53 AM
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I finally figured out my vision for the kind of sex life I want with my wife. I saw it while watching Home Improvement. Tim was supposed to get a vasectomy. He didn't want one of course. But had one because a friend had one, told him it was no big deal. His friend commented "Anytime, any place" describing the kind of freedom it will give their sex life.<P>Well, Tim had the procedure and Jill caught him sneaking up on her in the kitchen. She said, "I am not sure this was such a good idea."<P>Tim said, "Anytime, anywhere."<P>They embraced and kissed in the kitchen and Jill said, "What about the kitchen counter?" They decided to got the bedroom - a place they haven't done it lately. <P>But, that whole scenario displayed what I want - a freedom with sex. That is is normal and fun and enjoyed. I think this vision of what I want conflicts greatly with the "no lights" sex we seem to only be able to have. I mean, there is no hint of sex until we are in bed and the lights are off. It would be nice if we acted like sex could be in our future while we are doing other things.<P>Sorry for the vent.

#404962 03/26/01 12:50 AM
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Hello there...<P>The reason why your response to my anger question surprised me was probably because I made the assumption that your relationship wasn't that volitile.<BR>I guess it threw me a little to learn that it was - you just seem so level, so I suppose I figured your wife was as well. [censored] U ME ... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Interesting the analogy you made to with the Home Inprovement episode...<BR>Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all have that kind of sexual freedom in our relationships?<BR>Was there ever a time when you and your wife were that open?<BR>I remember when my husband and I were dating...Bedroom? What Bedroom???<BR>I also remember the look on his face when I asked him to consider a vascetomy...Too bad I didn't think of the 'anytime, anywhere' selling point then! - Maybe he would have gone.

#404963 03/26/01 08:53 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B>I made the assumption that your relationship wasn't that volitile.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, that part is mostly history. I have always maintained my level head (for the most part) because someone had to. I have prayed a lot and she has finally gotten some help with her issues.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Was there ever a time when you and your wife were that open?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Before kids.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I remember when my husband and I were dating...Bedroom? What Bedroom???<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Is there another room? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I also remember the look on his face when I asked him to consider a vascetomy...<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hey, it was no big thing. I love the freedom.<P><BR>

#404964 03/26/01 12:17 PM
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Good Morning...<P>I remember reading another post (I can't remember if it was on this board, or another I've been spending time at) written by a woman who was having difficulty being intimate with her husband.<BR>The couple had children, and the issue was that the husband wanted to have more 'fun' sexually, and she felt that as a mother it was somehow unacceptable for her to behave that way, so she wouldn't allow herself.<BR>She believed that her husband had a certain immage of her, and respect for her as a parent. She was afraid that becoming more adventureous in a sexual way would tarnish that immage, and he would lose respect for her.<BR>She later admitted that it was HER issue, and she had projected the problem on to her husband. Once she learned that he wouldn't think less of her as a woman or a mother she began to feel more open. I know she still struggles with the whole thing, but as far as I understand it's getting better.<BR>Have you and your wife ever discussed how she see's herself as a wife and mother, and how that affects her sexuality?

#404965 03/26/01 12:26 PM
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Yes. I bought her a book called Intimate Issues written by Linda Dillow. In it, she and the co-author talk in depth about how a Christian woman deals with her faith, motherhood and her sexuality. My wife found it intriguing and read it about 5 months ago. But we never really discussed it very much.<P>That is an interesting twist though about the 'loss of respect' thing. I haven't thought about that.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Dogbert (edited March 26, 2001).]

#404966 03/26/01 12:44 PM
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Have you read it as well?<BR>My therapist suggests that when one or the other of us is reading a book that has to do with working on our relationship that we read it together.<BR>That way we're always understanding where the other is at, and where the new ideas are coming from.<BR>It also gives us new things to discuss when we're talking about how we're doing.<BR>Would she be open to that sort of thing, or do you think she'd see it as an invasion of her 'space'?

#404967 03/26/01 02:13 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoDuped:<BR><B>Have you read it as well?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I skimmed through it before I brought it home. But, she didn't want me to read it because she was afraid I would remember things in it and 'remember' when she was not 'doing' the things in it.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Would she be open to that sort of thing, or do you think she'd see it as an invasion of her 'space'?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hmm... I don't know.<P>I think I am just going to lay off of her. That seems to be the best thing. Like I said, I have tried this and that and I am to the point where I have to lean on God and not to my own understanding.<P>

#404968 03/26/01 02:24 PM
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Sorry to keep coming at you with all the suggestions...guess I got my Ms. Fix It Cap on a little too tight Hmmm?

#404969 03/26/01 02:33 PM
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SD (Anna) - <P>No prob. I don't mind suggestions. Something may shake loose - you never know.<P>I am a 'fix-it' person too and don't usually rest until it is fixed. I think that is why I have been in this mode for nearly 13 years. Well, maybe 10 years.<P>So you are in computers, too?

#404970 03/26/01 03:07 PM
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You hit a key point in saying You don't know how you'll get through it, or if you will. My husband is upset with me now because he says I am like hot and cold running water. The truth, he's right. Can I stop it, No. Why, beats me, I think it's the afterwash of his A. I think about the things he did with and for her and I am so angry and bitter. I think about his insatiable need to get his needs met at the expense of mine and I truly at times hate him. It's no wonder he feels hot and cold. Love and hate, they are emotions running rampant in my heart. It's been 8 weeks, he moved out. I know a lot of people stay in the same home and try to work things out. I can't. Why, I don't know, I just know how good he is at manipulating me and I am terrified of "business as usual" He contends it worked for us before why not leave things as is. Therein lies the problem. What was good for him was not for me. Confused, god that is such a small simple word for the aftermath of an A.

#404971 03/26/01 06:35 PM
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Dogbert,<BR>The life of a fix-it person...fun and games isn't it?<P>As far as the computer thing...yes, that is how I spend most of my time these days. Is that what you do as well?<BR>

#404972 03/26/01 06:41 PM
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K9...<BR>I know what you mean...confusion doesn't even begin to express the multiple waves of emotion that try to conflict all at the same time...it's maddening!!!<BR>Some days I'm afraid to get out of bed just knowing I'm going to have to face it all for another 18 hours.<BR>At least my husband is willing to talk about it - but it isn't easy for him...the more I talk, the more emotions I get caught up in.<BR>He's still trying to figure out how to handle it. For that matter - so am I.<BR>Talk about a long hard road.<BR>I feel for you.<BR>Do what feels right...and stay strong.

#404973 03/26/01 07:36 PM
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SD - <P>Yes. I am software guy. Been mainly writing Internet software and database applications for the past 4 years. I guess I'll be doing that for a long while. I hope.

#404974 03/26/01 07:47 PM
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Cool! <BR>I'm building a database as we speak! (CMMS)<BR>It's a little dry right now, but once all the info is in and I can start programming the set-up it should be more interesting.<BR>Perfect career choice for us type D's that like to wear the fix it caps hmm? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

#404975 03/27/01 08:36 AM
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What is CMMS?<P>I work in Oracle, Visual Basic and Active Server Pages. I also can do SQL Server. Yes, perfect for a "D".<P>How are you doing this morning?

#404976 03/27/01 12:16 PM
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Good Morning Dogbert!<BR>I'm doing pretty well today, how about you?<P>Things between Joe and I seem to be a little better the last couple of days.<BR>We had a talk the night before last about this anger I've been feeling. All I did was explain how I'm feeling to him - but somehow putting it out there instead of holding it in has helped me to feel a little more level.<BR>I'm not sure if he understands the depth of it all, but at least he understands more than he did before...he's even asking for suggestions on how to handle things when I'm overwhelmed so that it doesn't get worse.<BR>It feels reassuring to see him making such an effort - it's a tangable that shows how much it means to him to get our marriage back on track.<BR>I just wish I could stop waiting for the other shoe to drop.

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