tere38 -<P>That is a wise decision - sometimes it is just better to do the best you can for yourself and forget if there is "something" going on. That way you can always feeel it wasn't your fault (if he's calling OW).<P>I know today is Mother's Day - hope you have a happy one. So far I haven't gotten a card from H - I know we aren't suppose to expect anything - but I know I'll be hurt. He's making breakfast - I'll talk to you later.<BR>aftershock

After shock Hope you had a good Mother's Day also. Mine was better than usual actually. The children had each gotten me a card, two did it because my husband reminded them to which I thought was very sweet because I'm not HIS mother (ha,ha!). My twelve year old daughter had gotten me a card weeks ago with her own money and she had taken some B&W photos of an old barn near our house that turned out so pretty. She gave those to me, and it touched me incredibly. My husband gave me very sweet card, made me cry. He is one of those people who always reads the card before he buys it to see if it says what he wants to say. I just love that.<P>I had a nightmare last night about the OW and sat straight up in bed shaking. I don't do things like that, scared my H to death. I didn't talk to him about it, just told him it was a bad dream and we went back to sleep. My mind is playing major tricks on me, and I am trying so hard to be in control in front of him. I really think he is going to handle this like Dorie's H, he will probably tell me about it in a few years when it is way behind us. I am deep in prayer about it, and God is helping me battle.<P>Hope you are doing well. Don't know what I would do without someone to talk to about this. I'd exchange e-mail addresses, but then H would know what I'm going through. This is much more secure.

tere38 -<P>yes, much, much secure. Don't e-mail - he can get ahold of stuff - infact - remember there is software you can put on the computer - wish I'd never been so stupid to ever believe that this would never happen in our marriage. I was so stupid. It is a rude awakening, and you go crazy trying to reason why it happened. I wish I could have seen what was said on the instant messenger. Yes, I see the EN's now, and I don't meet my H's - but I do a better job, at changing in other areas, and he hasn't.<P>I did not get a Mother's Day card from him. I always have before - last year I didn't know what was going on, and I think I got a card. He bought me a bunch of cards last year, he has them at work, but he claims he hasn't gotten the feelings back to give them to me. He says he is waiting for the feelings to come back. Our situation is just weird - I see his withdrawal, the anger and disenchantment, last summer. He is back so much better than it was - but I feel his lack of getting me a card for Mother's Day, was an avoidance. He made me a nice breakfast, and we had a small discussion after breakfast. I even asked him about OW - that he hasn't received any phone calls from her. If she calls him now, I feel I won't stop - I'll call her husband - I wish I'd know all about SAA and plan A and B. It is weird about Mother's Day - because my H has always been so considerate on cards since the very beginning of our relationship. He also doesn't see the reason to tell me every step he is at during the day - our OW is across the United States - so if it still goes on - it would be by e-mail, or phone - but he doesn't act the way he did last summer - he acts alot more there - except for hugs/affection. he has asked me to back off, too much, and I have, but I need alot of affection - which he knew when we got together. Sometimes I get so frustrated with this situation, that I just want to blow. I feel really frustrated.<P>I am glad you are there too, because , I just never felt like there was anyone there for me - I went on like that for month after month, and felt like I was going crazy at times. <P>I don't meet my H EN - one is domestic support - we have alot of stuff to clean out, we have alot of stuff, and I don't spend alot of time doing things I should. I don't have alot of time to spend on MB's so please forgive if you don't hear from me as much as I'd like to. Next weekend (19 & 20), I'll be gone again.<P>If you can keep cool, calm, and collected - the most power to you. I know the hurt - I did some angry outbursts, there was alot I didn't yell about - but being sweet is very hard - look at it - he asked you to marry him - you do - and then he's off having an affair. I told my husband I had to acknowledge that it was part my fault. It still gives no one the right to hurt another like that.<P>Take care, tere38, I am having a bad day, because of yesterday. Yes, it was a wonderful breakfast, but, it hurts because he did not take the time to get me a card.<BR>aftershock

tere38 -<P>yes, much, much secure. Don't e-mail - he can get ahold of stuff - infact - remember there is software you can put on the computer - wish I'd never been so stupid to ever believe that this would never happen in our marriage. I was so stupid. It is a rude awakening, and you go crazy trying to reason why it happened. I wish I could have seen what was said on the instant messenger. Yes, I see the EN's now, and I don't meet my H's - but I do a better job, at changing in other areas, and he hasn't.<P>I did not get a Mother's Day card from him. I always have before - last year I didn't know what was going on, and I think I got a card. He bought me a bunch of cards last year, he has them at work, but he claims he hasn't gotten the feelings back to give them to me. He says he is waiting for the feelings to come back. Our situation is just weird - I see his withdrawal, the anger and disenchantment, last summer. He is back so much better than it was - but I feel his lack of getting me a card for Mother's Day, was an avoidance. He made me a nice breakfast, and we had a small discussion after breakfast. I even asked him about OW - that he hasn't received any phone calls from her. If she calls him now, I feel I won't stop - I'll call her husband - I wish I'd know all about SAA and plan A and B. It is weird about Mother's Day - because my H has always been so considerate on cards since the very beginning of our relationship. He also doesn't see the reason to tell me every step he is at during the day - our OW is across the United States - so if it still goes on - it would be by e-mail, or phone - but he doesn't act the way he did last summer - he acts alot more there - except for hugs/affection. he has asked me to back off, too much, and I have, but I need alot of affection - which he knew when we got together. Sometimes I get so frustrated with this situation, that I just want to blow. I feel really frustrated.<P>I am glad you are there too, because , I just never felt like there was anyone there for me - I went on like that for month after month, and felt like I was going crazy at times. <P>I don't meet my H EN - one is domestic support - we have alot of stuff to clean out, we have alot of stuff, and I don't spend alot of time doing things I should. I don't have alot of time to spend on MB's so please forgive if you don't hear from me as much as I'd like to. Next weekend (19 & 20), I'll be gone again.<P>If you can keep cool, calm, and collected - the most power to you. I know the hurt - I did some angry outbursts, there was alot I didn't yell about - but being sweet is very hard - look at it - he asked you to marry him - you do - and then he's off having an affair. I told my husband I had to acknowledge that it was part my fault. It still gives no one the right to hurt another like that.<P>Take care, tere38, I am having a bad day, because of yesterday. Yes, it was a wonderful breakfast, but, it hurts because he did not take the time to get me a card.<BR>aftershock

TERE38 !!!!<P>MY EMAIL unomewellus@yahoo.com<P>If you wish, email......remember to keep it secure, don't use outlook express or any of those in the computer. Use a web based email to keep your privacy in this

H and both use the same mailbox for e-mail, so he would be onto me for sure then (I am doing a pretty good job of maintaining composure in front of him presently). Thanks for the address. Will consider. How are things for you?

tere -<P>how's it going now? sorry no e-mail for a week - did not have alot of time last week - I still have to go figure what for dinner tonight - gosh how that always seems to come up.<P>Remember - your H should "confess" - talk to you about it - because - if he is not talking to you about it - he may be keeping it on the back burner - remember from SAA - when the examples finally talked to their spouses about it, and how they end the A? <P>aftershock

Hey aftershock, thanks for thinking about me. No confession, and actually I am going through a bit of a meltdown presently because he came home for dinner (a GREAT dinner if I say so myself!) and now here at 9:00, he has left to go back to the hospital to do something he forgot to do. Honestly, it could be true, but due to recent turns of events I am losing it wondering where he has gone. I'm going to time it, see how long it actually takes him to return, and see what he says when he gets home.<P>I have literally poured myself into self-improvement recently, more for me than for him. I'm running, doing Pilates every other day, and weight training on the other days. Take Sundays off, so I'm not overdoing it. I am getting major complements at church and from friends, so that's a big boost.<P>I am going through that 'Did I just imagine this?' thing right now, and that is making me nuts. He talks to me, says he loves me and would never hurt me, but there is still something there, like a veil between us or something. Does that make sense? He won't explain the phone numbers, just says he can't remember whose numbers they are. That just seems weird to me. The number that comes up 'secret' when you press it and you have to put a code in to call the number, why would that be there? See what I am doing to myself? Just wish he would say, 'Gee, I made a mistake.', or even, 'I'm worried about why you are having these feelings.' I think he's just so grateful to have me back physically that he doesn't want to rock the boat. I need the boat to rock alot right now, so I can heal and get on with our lives.<P>Thanks again for checking on me. Gpsman has been corresponding regularly, and I feel like he's doing all the helping and I'm not helping him at all. We are all in this boat together, we should be helping equally.

tere - keep running! Imagining or not, having a stress-reliever outlet like that and staying healthy is extremely important IMO. It seems you're mostly on the right track though. You want to trust and believe it may be just your imagination, but you also don't want to be a fool for not seeing the signs. Love him, give him what he needs... AND keep a close eye out. There's really nothing wrong with that I believe (as long as not taken too far). Also, try to keep little pieces of 'evidence' to yourself. It's a LB, and it keeps him on his toes in case he is up to something. If he is, he will slip up when he suspects you are watching the least. Wishing you the best and hoping your instincts are way off in this case.<P>PS - if you haven't already, try:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.numberfinder.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.numberfinder.com</A> <P>The "Reverse Lookup" feature may help.<P>

Tere38,<P>You need not worry about using the same mailbox. What you can do is go to yahoo.com or email.com or iwon.com or any sites that offer free email. Then register, go to the internet site and log on it is that simple, I have three internet adresses that My W cannot access, even if she wanted to. The only thing you need to do is make sure you clear out the history and temporary files when your done, Alot better than searching foor eachother this way.<P>My W and I are doing very well thank you. I turned a corner last week, I am tackling issues with my parents from growing up and other things.....too messy to get into. And I was able to recognize...finally that I cannot control my W's actions as much as I would like to believe I can I can't never could, no one can control another persons mind or actions, influence them yes but not control. So that was a relief. My W seems to be back with me after three weeks of being distant and withdrawn, she does that when things get rough, just her way of coping. I realize that now . She is working with her Counselor to break that behavior and open up and feel things and share things, she is coming along, She has so much pain and anger over things that don't even involve me as well as things that do and progress is slow. It is exponential though, the more you share and feel, the more you share and feel it becomes easier and easier every time and the more you are honest and say whats in your heart the more you want to. It feels good, it feels powerful to have that demeanor and confidence within ones self, This is where I am. Never would have been here if I had not been cast into the dark pit. That place where no light penetrates, but images do, of them together, of times you've had all mixed up in some sick twisted slide show that I had to watch over and over, I wanted to look away but could not, so I would sit there seeing it in my minds eye, disbelieving, feeling the betrayal, feeling like my heart had been torn from my chest and cast into the dirt, still beating, crying and sobbing, I was unable to lose the pain, thinking it would never end. But it did the demons that held those pictures for me to see through unblinking eyes came less and less. Through my own awakening of my soul, my heart and my being I have found clarity and goodness, I have found the depth of sorrow and now am feeling the lightness that comes with forgiveness given. I feel truly good about me and it's beggining to rub off, she is coming to me now seeing the good in me finally and in turn seeing the good in herself. I have found the comfort of sharing this with someone like you and in sharing and helping have found that My pain was not the end of my life but the beggining of knowing myself. I cannot thank you enough for letting me help you and I hope I have an dwill continue as long as you need, In sharing our pain we heal faster, we find we are'nt alone, we find that some one does indeed care about us. Thank you tere38 for caring about me enough to listen.<P>Oh and thank you for the kind words to WCM, he and I are emailing and it is not good. I'm trying.<P>Try the email thing.....

Thanks to both of you for reponding last night. Although I could not return to the site because he got home really quick, I knew there would be something inspiring there for me this morning. It helps, it really does. I got out SAA last night and read and read while he was gone, but didn't get the nerve to sit in front of him eye to eye and say 'Tell me you haven't had an A.' If I did this, I feel he would tell me.<P>We are suppose to go to a baby shower for one of his office nurses Wednesday evening, which would be an excellent opportunity to check out the OW. Don't know if I have what it takes to do that. He won't say we shouldn't go, he won't say we should go. I know from his past that he has had both OW and his first wife together in a social situation before, so he knows how to handle himself. I don't, so I can't say I would be extremely comfortable.<P>An interesting twist: Since I told him my suspicions, the alledged OW has 'decided' to return to his other office which is near her home, about 40 minutes from here. He sees patients there every Friday. She worked with him up there for two years before deciding she wanted to commute to this office and see what it was like. I couldn't figure out why she would want to come all that way to work, but I suspect it was to be closer to my H for more than one day a week. Does that sound too paranoid? She is the only person that he will not say one way or the other how he feels about. It could also be her initial on his cell phone and palm pilot. I haven't revealed that to him, but I do check his recent calls on his cell phone to see if he has dialed that number recently, which he has not. She is married, her father died last summer and I know my husband supported her through all that, so she is my prime suspect. The weird thing: he buys her birthday and holiday presents, but he takes me with him to do it. <P>Thanks again, and I hope you are all doing well. I'm terrified to do the e-mail thing, but I will check it out. Time to go for my run, I'll try to check back later. tere

Hope the run helped - I know it helps me. Both physically and mentally stronger.<P>I too have a trust issue that I really want to get rid of. I'm trying to create the environment where my W can feel she can always be totally open and honest with me, therefore earning back my trust. In my case I "know" there's more that she still doesn't feel she can admit to me.<P>Since you don't know "for sure" though, I think you have to treat him as though it is not true. Give him the benefit of the doubt and, at least for a while, try not to let him know you suspect anything. Not until you have solid proof.<P>In the case it is true though, I believe you do need to find out. As an old saying goes, "trust everyone but cut the cards" - or something like that. He will need to face the truth with you. And of course you would want it to stop. Go to the party and watch how 'they' interact from across the room. Meet her H if he's there and just chat. Who knows what he suspects and may share; although I wouldn't just ask :-). I too find it 'interesting' that she would choose to commute that far, then decide to go back. The last thing you need is someone like me putting more suspicions in your head, but I'm sure you've already thought of these: something IS going on and they're being extra careful now that you suspect; something WAS going on but has now stopped; something ALMOST happened but they came to their senses. And of course, NOTHING happened and they're just friends.<P>In any of these cases, make sure you're doing your part to create a loving and emotionally comfortable environment. But also watch for the signs. Know where he is and how long he's gone, phone calls, Web browser history files (in case he has a web e-mail acct), etc. Having it come out into the open will be the best for both of you.<P>I believe a little paranoia is understandable under the circumstances, but don't let it eat at you. Stay strong tere.<P><BR>

The advice is getting me through the rough parts, thanks guys. Seems that none of the other doctors are planning to attend this shower, so I'm off the hook for now. He's welcomed me at the office, so I could check her out if I wanted to, so for now I'm going to leave it at that. Had a real meltdown this morning, but talked it through with my sister and felt lots better later. Just don't want to melt down in front of him, you know?<P>The exercise is amazing, I recommend it to everyone going through this stuff. A stronger physical body helps the mind and the endorphins are 'the bomb' for stress. The compliments from friends aren't bad either, which has also called my H attention back to me a bit.<P>He's such a great guy, but he's also human. I try to keep that in perspective. Thanks bill, you helped me tonight.

tere, thank you too. You really sound like a great person and your attitude is contagious. It's clear you really see the positive in your H as well and that's so much of the battle I believe. There's something about just talking to someone else, maybe especially anonymously this way that helps me too. And I have to say it helps to read from someone who is clearly trying so hard to work things out. So it's mutual.<P>And as for running, I started a few years ago. Hated it!! Learned to tolerate it because I was feeling better. Now I can't go long w/o it. Look forward to it every day. It does feel good to stay in shape and highly recommend it to all. And there are some nice side benefits as well ;-)<P>I hope your H appreciates you. I'm sure he does and all this is just suspicious-looking on the outside. Just keep on showing him what a mistake he would be making to damage what he has!!<P>PS - and do check out the office - maybe on a Friday afternoon :-)<P>

Now that's a great thought, because last Friday he came home early, but got paged to the office about 4:30, 'just to check in'. He called from the bedroom, but he didn't close the door and I was at the computer so I just sat and sort of listened. Well, I couldn't hear exactly what was being said, but it sounded a little too cushy for just office talk. I blew it off, pretended like I was listening. My gut tells me that this 'OW' is pursuing him, which if you knew him you would know why. He's the doctor everyone wants to work for, very happy and fun to work with, rarely loses his temper, rolls with the punches. Hey, that's what attracted me to him to begin with!!<P>We are taking our children to the Charlotte race (Nascar) this weekend. We do this every Memorial Day, the kids LOVE it, and we enjoy racing so it is an all-around fun time. We usually alternate between Indy 500 and Charlotte, but for the last two years we have just gone to Charlotte because we can include the kids. H also goes to the Formula One race at Indy in September, but I can't get into that one so he goes with our brother-in-law. Last year, he got talked into a strip club by a friend while they were up there. I just found out about that a few weeks ago, he was too ashamed to tell me.<P>Hope you are having a great day. I have Pilates and a run today, but have to take the truck in for an oil change and transmission check before the weekend trip, so I won't get any exercise til the afternoon, which will suck to run in. Yuck! Take care!

I know this thread is getting a little off topic, but so what right? ;-)<P>So race fans, huh? I went to high school near Indy and used to go to the track for time trials, practices, and of course the race - every year. Haven't missed a race in years, even if I have to settle for TV!<P>So it does sound like your H is really a great guy. Hopefully others here will find inspiration in your terrific attitude given your suspicions! (And this thread won't seem so off topic then) It sounds like you're doing your part to keep him interested at home. There are some really interesting posts on here about what causes an affair. One is the "Knight in Shining Armor" syndrome. Very elegantly written. If this OW is pursuing your H, show her who you are!! Go to the office on Friday afternoon 'dressed to kill' (so to speak :-). Stop it dead in its tracks before it happens, or gets any further along!<P>I've read the suggestions to be careful disclosing info that someone may use to identify people here. While most really have nothing to hide, some may prefer their personal issues not complicate their professional lives. I do have a personal Web e-mail address that I have shared with a couple of people for just talking more. You seem 'sane' enough :-) that I would give that out if you wish. I think someone else mentioned how to get a Web e-mail acct. It's very easy.<P>Pilates and a run!! You are serious. Use all that positive energy...<BR>

My H would not admit a thing for 4 years after his brief affair. Slowly, I discounted my gut instinct and lost all confidence in myself. All I did when I first suspected was ask if he had anything to tell me. He said no. I told him about (but did not show him) the long black hair I had found in our shower after I returned from a trip. <P>For 4 years I kept my eye on his employee I suspected. Gradually, I lost my sense of self and did not want to face her at the office. But I also kept telling myself that he would never cheat, definitely not with HER, much less at our own home! Ocassionally, I would bring up my insecurities and he would say I had nothing to worry about and he was so lucky to have me and that he loved me. The affair had stopped then but my mind was still going crazy. <P>Finally, last year, I wrote him a letter telling him I loved him and was committed to our marriage. I told him that I had been dealing with a lot of thoughts which were bringing me down and I had lost myself, felt like I was going crazy and needed answers to my questions. He responded that he loved me and if had given me anything to doubt that, he was truly sorry. So, I felt I had no choice but to show him the long hair which had haunted me for 4 years.<P>He was caught and finally admittd his terrible mistake. He took full responsibility for it, would not blame her for coming to him when she had marital problems and still has her as an employee. He says he can't just fire her. No one at the office knows supposedly. He doesn't realize that SHE was willing to destroy his wife, children, family, and business for a night of sexual pleasure. Her marriage was already crumbling. She knew what she was doing. He did too, sort of. She doesn't know I know and he won't tell her because it could all come out to haunt us all. Boy, I do keep trying to take the high road but still get angry when I think about this....<P>My point is that to get someone to confess, they need to feel completely loved and accepted and have the security of knowing they will not be screamed at or abandoned. That night, after his admission and countless apologies, we had sex. I really surprised myself doing that. But it felt right, he needed love and acceptance from me, even though I wasn't sure what I was going to do with the reality of it all. I was just so thankful to him for finally telling the truth. <P>Our marriage has gotten much stronger, we can share anything, we are committed to have a life together and he swears it will never happen again. It is extremely hard but I believe him because I know he would not want to go through this again, not only because of the terrible pain it has brought us both, but because I would leave him immediately.<P>I wish I had advice to share on how to get over it. I haven't gotten over it. That's why I am here looking for keys to recovery. But I do think gentleness it the best way to get the truth out in the open. The hard part comes after that. Good luck to you all.

Okay guys, back to the topic at hand and enough about trivial stuff. I guess I just keep hoping someone will say 'AHAH that sounds soooo suspicious!!'. It's not about anything except that I'm scared and I don't have anyone to really share this with.<P>Anyway, guess where I had to go today? You got it, I had to go to the office to deliver some drinks for my husband's office refrigerator. Scarey stuff, I was TERRIFIED!! Yes, I met her, and yes they both acted a bit nervous, but everyone knew I was coming by. Her more than him, but he's a pro at covering his insecurities. She wouldn't even look me in the face! Guess that cinches it, huh? It was nice getting to see my H and talk about a trip we are planning for the summer. The rest left me a little unnerved. I tried to be pleasant and polite and even saw a friend of mine that works there, so that helped me get through it.<P>I'm thinking about starting a new thread, cause this one is getting a bit lengthy. Look for me with some topic, don't even know what to title it yet. Thanks to everyone.

AHAH that sounds soooo suspicious!!<P><BR>there! better? :-)<P>Still doesn't prove anything, but little things do add up... I do have more thoughts on this. I'll look for your new posts later. My e-mail is:<P>bill9999md@yahoo.com<P>A yahoo e-mail acct. is extremely easy to get, and private. If you're not comfortable e-mailing me, or a guy, or whatever about this, do find someone and keep talking. It does help.<BR>

Tere,<P>I just have to tell you that I visited my H's office,the first and only time,when he worked with the OW coworker.(Remember this was about four years ago, and H just confessed about four months ago, so I didn't know she was OW at this time, didn't even suspect at this time).<P> She was on the phone when I came in, off in a little side room. H took me around introducing me to everyone, when I walked in the room that she was in she looked up, then immediately back down, holding the phone, never making eye contact. My husband said, "That's "insert pathetic loser's name here" as we stood in the doorway looking in the room,and she never even looked up to smile, nod, or acknowledge me in any way. I stayed at the office maybe twenty minutes being introduced around and visiting with everyone. Had H's and my infant child with me. She never came out of the room. She was the only one in the office with whom I didn't talk. I thought it was odd then, even commented to my husband right there, and then later that night after we got home, about how rudely and oddly she behaved. Dumb me, huh? I just thought she was raised in a barn, as they say. This was actually before the "A" went physical, but as I now know she had been aggressively flirting with him at the time this described visit occurred.That was the only time I even came close to her, since H got another job shortly after, thank God.<P>Your point about the suspected OW in your case not making eye contact with you absolutely gave me cold chills. I'm sorry to hint at bad news for you, it may not be anything, but I felt I had to share my story with you.