He Won't Admit It! - Marriage Builders® Forums

I have had suspicions that my husband might be in an affair for six months, but he refuses to talk to me about it. We have been married for almost seven years, second marriage for both of us, and I know that he had affairs during his first marriage. Lately, he has been working late hours, and he is distant when he is at home. Yesterday, I found an unusual phone number in his directory, the only phone number with an initial instead of the full name listed.Am I just being paranoid? When I try to talk to him about the problems in our marriage, he changes the subject. He says he loves me and that he wants us to be happy again. How can we even begin to work this out if he won't tell me what is happening?

tere - I would not say anyting more until you get some proof. I would do some snooping. Check all the credit cards etc. for suspicious charges. Of course if he has a cell phone get detailed billing. You can often go on line to get it. At numberfinder.com you can do a reverse phone look up. Check the mileage on his car daily. Drive by his office after hours to make sure he is really there. If you find nothing, maybe he is not doing anything wrong. However if you suspect something you are probably right. dax

From the sounds of it, whether or not your H is having an affair, your marriage is suffering. I'd suggest that you read some of Dr. Harley's books. They are listed on this web site. I actually think that his book "Surviving An Affair" is good reading for couples, even if no affair is going on. It shows how the downward spiral in relationships works. Dr. Harley's books are a wealth of information and guidance for putting a relationship back on track.things I did to find out about my H's affairs: Do look the phone number up on a reverse search engine as suggested above. Check all phone bills. Look at the call history his cell phone. Check your call waiting. One thing I did was to hit redial on the telephone, he called her every time I left the house. It was so predicable. Once I established the patteren I confronted her. She admitted everything. So I was then able to confront him.I understand the need to know. And indeed I feel you have the right to know so that you can make your own choices based on the truth. However, if you put your energies mostly towards repairing your marriage, the truth will come out and you may very well be able to save your marriage. I wish you all the luck as I know how this feels.E

Thanks to both of you. I have never felt so alone in my life. I am going straight to purchase the book mentioned. I tried the reverse phone search--no luck. My husband is a doctor and I am afraid he is going to be very good at covering his tracks. Anyway, I did talk to him today, and he wouldn't say yes or no, only that he loved me and that we need to work this out. I am crawling out of my skin wondering what to do. His credit card bill is a bit high, but I can't find anything out of the ordinary on it. Oh well, I guess I'll never have my own detective show. Thanks again!

Dax What do I do when he has his cellular phone bill mailed to his office? It is an office expense, so they take care of it and we never see the bill. I am beginning to feel like I am working with a real pro here-lots of cash withdrawals but nothing is showing up on the credit card bills. I have turned the house upside down looking for evidence, he won't be home until Tuesday so I should be okay getting things back together. The only clue I found was a bill for lingerie-he hasn't bought me lingerie in years.

Well if it is in the company's name you may be out of luck. If it is in his name, you might still be able to check the bill on it on line. I have heard that if he has never checked on line , ,you could even be the one to make up the password and get the bill. some women have even sneaked into their H.s office and found the bill. A PI, if you can afford one might be able to get it and A lot more. I think if you go to phone busters. com you could pay to find an unlisted number or go to google.com and put in phone search. If you can get detailed billing, you can go back and get the bills for months ago. I got the OW's cell phone by getting back bills before D day. Good luck

dax & tere38 -dax - what is a reverse phone search? tere38 - have i got a good one for you!!!!!!!a PI can send a phone card for you - ha, ha, ha he sends a free phone card for free minutes - the report gets mailed to the pi - runs about $350 - let me know how this works for you.also, written in MB in the forum about how you can purchase software that will tell you passwords, the e-mails sent, & instant msgr chat - can't remember the name of the software - but it should help too.If your husband is saying he wants to work it out and is being distant - that is a sure sign -I know how you feel - the oh my g-- shock. Let us know how you fare. after shock

Thanks dax and after shock. He got back from a business trip last night, I picked him up at the airport. He was so tired, I didn't have the heart to grill him about my suspiscions. I really think we can get through this, but I have to figure out how to vent my feelings to him, because as usual I am trying to hide them, and I am afraid to show much anger, because he is so sensitive to negativity, which may be another thing that has pushed him to someone else. Pray for me.

tere - Nothing you have done has caused this A if there is one. His being sensitive to negativity is his problem; he sounds like a very angry person. after shock -reverse phone number is when you have a number but no name or address. At numberfinder, you can put in number and get name and address- if it is listed. dax

dax Thank you so much. I maybe haven't explained how difficult I have been for the past few years, very insensitive to my husband and family and totally focused on 'poor little me' and the things I have to go through every month just being a woman. I had a revelation this weekend about this, and reading Dr. Harley's memos helped me to do this. I know that it isn't entirely my fault, but I would be very foolish to not accept some of the responsibility. I talked to my pastor this morning, had some prayer with her, and I am really at peace with it, one way or the other. I am going to give it my all to make this marriage a happy one, and then I can feel confident that I have done everything possible. You are the best, thanks for supporting me.

tere38 -try NOT to panic - like I said I know you are in the oh my god phase - believe me - I remember it well a year ago - it was extremely painful - my H is one of the kind that has not been really apologetic - just a little bit. He keeps emotions in the bottle. You must keep as steady as possible - try not to badger him about it - stay normal but check out as much as possible. Watch his trips - is he going to one place too much. You should be able to know where he is at all times - Surviving an Affair (Dr. Harley) tells it all. In case of an emergency a spouse should know where the other spouse is. If he is protective - that's a sign. The phone card - it is paid by you - but the PI gets the report. I am sure that your H might want some free phone minutes - it looks legitimate when sent to your H. Then sit back and monitor. Try to look in briefcase, day planner, etc. wallet if you can get a chance. The cash taken out of the bank - big one here. Somehow you need to find a way to get him to account for his money spent. All of this is hard - trying to keep track of money - when you are in the pits of emotions. I know. I always said, if they tell you about it it doesn't mean anything - if you don't know - there is something there. Once he is busted - it becomes a different ball game. You need also to have him account for his time. Remember - if he is not showing affection TO YOU, he is getting affection elsewhere. Please read Surviving an Affair asap - you can buy it from MB for $14.97. They send it quick - put a book cover on it and study it - it will open your eyes.Please don't panic - but do as much checking as you can. after shock

tere38 -forgot to mention - if you keep trying to talk to him about the A - it may become a huge LB. my theory is if you quit talking about it and watch what is happening he will make mistakes, because he thinks things are normal.Any chance to get the software for the computer at home? aftershock

Tere, It sounds like there is a high probability that he is having an affair. Instead of putting all this effort into catching him in an affair, how about expending greater effort into fixing your marriage. Read up on Love Busters, and start Plan A NOW. Possibly, just possibly, you can start to turn things around before they get worse. Good Luck, T

I have been blessed with some wonderful adivice this morning! Twyla, I left you a message on the other topic, but just to let you and aftershock know, I talked to my pastor this morning. I didn't give big details about my husband because I did not want to betray his confidence. I mainly explained it as a terrible feeling on my part, that I had some big suspicions that someone was pursuing my husband. After some big prayer between us, I was advised to love this man and to leave this in God's hands for now. It gave me temendous peace to do this as I was terrified to confront him and possible hurt him. I am going to continue with this plan for now, and my husband has told me that if we can't work this out on our own we will see a counselor right away. We have admitted to each other that we have neglected our marriage and that we both need to do some major changing in order to survive together. Keep us in your prayers. Don't know what I would do without this wonderful site.

Tere,I agree with Twyla. My WS H had a brief A four years ago. It was at a time when we weren't getting along well AT ALL, we were arguing, he withdrew, and I would pound him harder because his withdrawal fueled my anger. Anyway,I just found out (he confessed out of the blue) three months ago. So basically it is recent to me. One point in my and H's discussions that might be pertinent to your situation, I think, is this: I ask him (among a million other things) was there anything that I could have done to change him, or interecede at that time which would have prevented his taking that giant leap into a PA. Although he doesn't blame me for HIS decision to ultimately go through with it, and I won't take blame, he said that at that time he needed LOVE FROM ME, not anger.He said he also didn't have, well WE didn't have the communication to express our anger and solve problems before they escalated, in his case into resentment, etc. which made him vulnerable to a preying OW. Now I don't know the state of your marriage,and I may be way off base, but like Twyla advised, look at your marriage and work on repairing that. Especially try to work on opening up communication - loving communication.But I would also, quietly, follow through on your instincts and keep an eye on him. I had an intuitive feeling that my H was possibly infatuated with this very OW at the time, but discounted it. Never dreamed that he was capable of a PA, which he indeed was involved with. That is the only time in our marriage that I have ever felt suspicious, and I have been proven right. I wish I had snooped around back then, followed him, staked him out, done it all to expose the thing, although it was short-lived , thank goodness.Good luck to you. I hope you work things out and that you do not have to go through the pain many of the rest of us are going through here.

About 15 years ago, I began finding phone numbers on little scraps of paper hidden in the house and in the garage. No name or address was written on any of them. I was already suspicious of my husband, so I went to the public library and looked up some of the numbers in a Criss Cross Directory. I believe every U.S. city has such a directory (or used to). It should be near the phone directories for various cities, or you might ask for it at a reference desk. If the phone number isn't unlisted, you can look up the phone number and find the person's name, address and occasionally additional informaiton, such as occupation. If you had this information, you could drive by the person's house when your husband is supposedly working late, and if his car was there... I drove to one of the addresses I found, knocked on the door, and politely asked the lady who answered if she knew Mr. (his name). She said she did. I asked her if she was seeing him, and she said yes. I asked her how long, and she told me. I then said calmly, "I am his wife". Then, I must tell you, I started shaking, out of fear of I don't know what, and I turned around and left. When I told him of this encounter, giving him her name and address, he agreed to call her and break off all contact, which he did in my presence. We did eventually divorce, because of the numerous women he was seeing while I was at work, but my reason for posting is just to point you to this Criss Cross directory in case this would be helpful to you. [This message has been edited by computergal (edited May 10, 2001).]

Hi everyone! My copy of Surviving an Affair just arrived, and I am anxious to get started. I am getting the same advice from many of you, and I love this man so much. I know that in order for us to heal, he will have to confess the alledged A to me, but I am not pressing the issue. Wouldn't it be great if I became aware before anything happened (wishful thinking, but possible!) I will try to keep my eyes open, but I am not a sneaky person. I am doing so much better than I was Sat. I know that I am doing the right thing. Thanks to all of you and God bless you.

tere38 -I am so happy for you! You are going to like that book - it has helped me so much!!! Remember my D-day was June 8 and June 12, 2000. June 8 was when the OW stayed at our house & I saw - and June 12 was Instant messenger night. I am just finishing it - in appendix a now and I will be passing it to my husband. I sure hope it helps you. Things are getting back to normal w/my H and myself - we still have alot of work to do - I am game - it just seems like we don't have enough time.any decision on the phone card? I know that alot of people say to repair the marriage - but you still need to do some watching too. I know I spend time with him and the computer now - It is such stupid stuff - all the stupid solicitors through e-mail - waste of time.How are you emotionally now? I am pretty mellowed - but I still get pangs of hurt once in a while. aftershock

Aftershock, I am actually doing really well today. We are talking a great deal, but nothing has actually come out as far as a confession. I am continuing to do my part as the good wife, which I am enjoying so much. I have never acted this way to him, I know he thinks I am crazy!! I hope that in time he will trust me enough to let me know if anything is going on. Otherwise, I appreciate the suggestions, but I am not going to do anything to betray my husband's confidence (except talking on this site, cause I need you guys). I do plan to keep my eyes open, because I worry about sexual harrassment suits if the alledged OW decides to retaliate. Thanks again.

tere38 -That is a wise decision - sometimes it is just better to do the best you can for yourself and forget if there is "something" going on. That way you can always feeel it wasn't your fault (if he's calling OW).I know today is Mother's Day - hope you have a happy one. So far I haven't gotten a card from H - I know we aren't suppose to expect anything - but I know I'll be hurt. He's making breakfast - I'll talk to you later. aftershock

After shock Hope you had a good Mother's Day also. Mine was better than usual actually. The children had each gotten me a card, two did it because my husband reminded them to which I thought was very sweet because I'm not HIS mother (ha,ha!). My twelve year old daughter had gotten me a card weeks ago with her own money and she had taken some B&W photos of an old barn near our house that turned out so pretty. She gave those to me, and it touched me incredibly. My husband gave me very sweet card, made me cry. He is one of those people who always reads the card before he buys it to see if it says what he wants to say. I just love that.I had a nightmare last night about the OW and sat straight up in bed shaking. I don't do things like that, scared my H to death. I didn't talk to him about it, just told him it was a bad dream and we went back to sleep. My mind is playing major tricks on me, and I am trying so hard to be in control in front of him. I really think he is going to handle this like Dorie's H, he will probably tell me about it in a few years when it is way behind us. I am deep in prayer about it, and God is helping me battle.Hope you are doing well. Don't know what I would do without someone to talk to about this. I'd exchange e-mail addresses, but then H would know what I'm going through. This is much more secure.

tere38 -yes, much, much secure. Don't e-mail - he can get ahold of stuff - infact - remember there is software you can put on the computer - wish I'd never been so stupid to ever believe that this would never happen in our marriage. I was so stupid. It is a rude awakening, and you go crazy trying to reason why it happened. I wish I could have seen what was said on the instant messenger. Yes, I see the EN's now, and I don't meet my H's - but I do a better job, at changing in other areas, and he hasn't.I did not get a Mother's Day card from him. I always have before - last year I didn't know what was going on, and I think I got a card. He bought me a bunch of cards last year, he has them at work, but he claims he hasn't gotten the feelings back to give them to me. He says he is waiting for the feelings to come back. Our situation is just weird - I see his withdrawal, the anger and disenchantment, last summer. He is back so much better than it was - but I feel his lack of getting me a card for Mother's Day, was an avoidance. He made me a nice breakfast, and we had a small discussion after breakfast. I even asked him about OW - that he hasn't received any phone calls from her. If she calls him now, I feel I won't stop - I'll call her husband - I wish I'd know all about SAA and plan A and B. It is weird about Mother's Day - because my H has always been so considerate on cards since the very beginning of our relationship. He also doesn't see the reason to tell me every step he is at during the day - our OW is across the United States - so if it still goes on - it would be by e-mail, or phone - but he doesn't act the way he did last summer - he acts alot more there - except for hugs/affection. he has asked me to back off, too much, and I have, but I need alot of affection - which he knew when we got together. Sometimes I get so frustrated with this situation, that I just want to blow. I feel really frustrated.I am glad you are there too, because , I just never felt like there was anyone there for me - I went on like that for month after month, and felt like I was going crazy at times. I don't meet my H EN - one is domestic support - we have alot of stuff to clean out, we have alot of stuff, and I don't spend alot of time doing things I should. I don't have alot of time to spend on MB's so please forgive if you don't hear from me as much as I'd like to. Next weekend (19 & 20), I'll be gone again.If you can keep cool, calm, and collected - the most power to you. I know the hurt - I did some angry outbursts, there was alot I didn't yell about - but being sweet is very hard - look at it - he asked you to marry him - you do - and then he's off having an affair. I told my husband I had to acknowledge that it was part my fault. It still gives no one the right to hurt another like that.Take care, tere38, I am having a bad day, because of yesterday. Yes, it was a wonderful breakfast, but, it hurts because he did not take the time to get me a card. aftershock

TERE38 !!!!MY EMAIL unomewellus@yahoo.comIf you wish, email......remember to keep it secure, don't use outlook express or any of those in the computer. Use a web based email to keep your privacy in this

H and both use the same mailbox for e-mail, so he would be onto me for sure then (I am doing a pretty good job of maintaining composure in front of him presently). Thanks for the address. Will consider. How are things for you?

tere -how's it going now? sorry no e-mail for a week - did not have alot of time last week - I still have to go figure what for dinner tonight - gosh how that always seems to come up.Remember - your H should "confess" - talk to you about it - because - if he is not talking to you about it - he may be keeping it on the back burner - remember from SAA - when the examples finally talked to their spouses about it, and how they end the A? aftershock

Hey aftershock, thanks for thinking about me. No confession, and actually I am going through a bit of a meltdown presently because he came home for dinner (a GREAT dinner if I say so myself!) and now here at 9:00, he has left to go back to the hospital to do something he forgot to do. Honestly, it could be true, but due to recent turns of events I am losing it wondering where he has gone. I'm going to time it, see how long it actually takes him to return, and see what he says when he gets home.I have literally poured myself into self-improvement recently, more for me than for him. I'm running, doing Pilates every other day, and weight training on the other days. Take Sundays off, so I'm not overdoing it. I am getting major complements at church and from friends, so that's a big boost.I am going through that 'Did I just imagine this?' thing right now, and that is making me nuts. He talks to me, says he loves me and would never hurt me, but there is still something there, like a veil between us or something. Does that make sense? He won't explain the phone numbers, just says he can't remember whose numbers they are. That just seems weird to me. The number that comes up 'secret' when you press it and you have to put a code in to call the number, why would that be there? See what I am doing to myself? Just wish he would say, 'Gee, I made a mistake.', or even, 'I'm worried about why you are having these feelings.' I think he's just so grateful to have me back physically that he doesn't want to rock the boat. I need the boat to rock alot right now, so I can heal and get on with our lives.Thanks again for checking on me. Gpsman has been corresponding regularly, and I feel like he's doing all the helping and I'm not helping him at all. We are all in this boat together, we should be helping equally.

tere - keep running! Imagining or not, having a stress-reliever outlet like that and staying healthy is extremely important IMO. It seems you're mostly on the right track though. You want to trust and believe it may be just your imagination, but you also don't want to be a fool for not seeing the signs. Love him, give him what he needs... AND keep a close eye out. There's really nothing wrong with that I believe (as long as not taken too far). Also, try to keep little pieces of 'evidence' to yourself. It's a LB, and it keeps him on his toes in case he is up to something. If he is, he will slip up when he suspects you are watching the least. Wishing you the best and hoping your instincts are way off in this case.PS - if you haven't already, try: <A HREF="http://www.numberfinder.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.numberfinder.com</A> The "Reverse Lookup" feature may help.

Tere38,You need not worry about using the same mailbox. What you can do is go to yahoo.com or email.com or iwon.com or any sites that offer free email. Then register, go to the internet site and log on it is that simple, I have three internet adresses that My W cannot access, even if she wanted to. The only thing you need to do is make sure you clear out the history and temporary files when your done, Alot better than searching foor eachother this way.My W and I are doing very well thank you. I turned a corner last week, I am tackling issues with my parents from growing up and other things.....too messy to get into. And I was able to recognize...finally that I cannot control my W's actions as much as I would like to believe I can I can't never could, no one can control another persons mind or actions, influence them yes but not control. So that was a relief. My W seems to be back with me after three weeks of being distant and withdrawn, she does that when things get rough, just her way of coping. I realize that now [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

. She is working with her Counselor to break that behavior and open up and feel things and share things, she is coming along, She has so much pain and anger over things that don't even involve me as well as things that do and progress is slow. It is exponential though, the more you share and feel, the more you share and feel it becomes easier and easier every time and the more you are honest and say whats in your heart the more you want to. It feels good, it feels powerful to have that demeanor and confidence within ones self, This is where I am. Never would have been here if I had not been cast into the dark pit. That place where no light penetrates, but images do, of them together, of times you've had all mixed up in some sick twisted slide show that I had to watch over and over, I wanted to look away but could not, so I would sit there seeing it in my minds eye, disbelieving, feeling the betrayal, feeling like my heart had been torn from my chest and cast into the dirt, still beating, crying and sobbing, I was unable to lose the pain, thinking it would never end. But it did the demons that held those pictures for me to see through unblinking eyes came less and less. Through my own awakening of my soul, my heart and my being I have found clarity and goodness, I have found the depth of sorrow and now am feeling the lightness that comes with forgiveness given. I feel truly good about me and it's beggining to rub off, she is coming to me now seeing the good in me finally and in turn seeing the good in herself. I have found the comfort of sharing this with someone like you and in sharing and helping have found that My pain was not the end of my life but the beggining of knowing myself. I cannot thank you enough for letting me help you and I hope I have an dwill continue as long as you need, In sharing our pain we heal faster, we find we are'nt alone, we find that some one does indeed care about us. Thank you tere38 for caring about me enough to listen.Oh and thank you for the kind words to WCM, he and I are emailing and it is not good. I'm trying.Try the email thing..... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Thanks to both of you for reponding last night. Although I could not return to the site because he got home really quick, I knew there would be something inspiring there for me this morning. It helps, it really does. I got out SAA last night and read and read while he was gone, but didn't get the nerve to sit in front of him eye to eye and say 'Tell me you haven't had an A.' If I did this, I feel he would tell me.We are suppose to go to a baby shower for one of his office nurses Wednesday evening, which would be an excellent opportunity to check out the OW. Don't know if I have what it takes to do that. He won't say we shouldn't go, he won't say we should go. I know from his past that he has had both OW and his first wife together in a social situation before, so he knows how to handle himself. I don't, so I can't say I would be extremely comfortable.An interesting twist: Since I told him my suspicions, the alledged OW has 'decided' to return to his other office which is near her home, about 40 minutes from here. He sees patients there every Friday. She worked with him up there for two years before deciding she wanted to commute to this office and see what it was like. I couldn't figure out why she would want to come all that way to work, but I suspect it was to be closer to my H for more than one day a week. Does that sound too paranoid? She is the only person that he will not say one way or the other how he feels about. It could also be her initial on his cell phone and palm pilot. I haven't revealed that to him, but I do check his recent calls on his cell phone to see if he has dialed that number recently, which he has not. She is married, her father died last summer and I know my husband supported her through all that, so she is my prime suspect. The weird thing: he buys her birthday and holiday presents, but he takes me with him to do it. Thanks again, and I hope you are all doing well. I'm terrified to do the e-mail thing, but I will check it out. Time to go for my run, I'll try to check back later. tere

Hope the run helped - I know it helps me. Both physically and mentally stronger.I too have a trust issue that I really want to get rid of. I'm trying to create the environment where my W can feel she can always be totally open and honest with me, therefore earning back my trust. In my case I "know" there's more that she still doesn't feel she can admit to me.Since you don't know "for sure" though, I think you have to treat him as though it is not true. Give him the benefit of the doubt and, at least for a while, try not to let him know you suspect anything. Not until you have solid proof.In the case it is true though, I believe you do need to find out. As an old saying goes, "trust everyone but cut the cards" - or something like that. He will need to face the truth with you. And of course you would want it to stop. Go to the party and watch how 'they' interact from across the room. Meet her H if he's there and just chat. Who knows what he suspects and may share; although I wouldn't just ask :-). I too find it 'interesting' that she would choose to commute that far, then decide to go back. The last thing you need is someone like me putting more suspicions in your head, but I'm sure you've already thought of these: something IS going on and they're being extra careful now that you suspect; something WAS going on but has now stopped; something ALMOST happened but they came to their senses. And of course, NOTHING happened and they're just friends.In any of these cases, make sure you're doing your part to create a loving and emotionally comfortable environment. But also watch for the signs. Know where he is and how long he's gone, phone calls, Web browser history files (in case he has a web e-mail acct), etc. Having it come out into the open will be the best for both of you.I believe a little paranoia is understandable under the circumstances, but don't let it eat at you. Stay strong tere.

The advice is getting me through the rough parts, thanks guys. Seems that none of the other doctors are planning to attend this shower, so I'm off the hook for now. He's welcomed me at the office, so I could check her out if I wanted to, so for now I'm going to leave it at that. Had a real meltdown this morning, but talked it through with my sister and felt lots better later. Just don't want to melt down in front of him, you know?The exercise is amazing, I recommend it to everyone going through this stuff. A stronger physical body helps the mind and the endorphins are 'the bomb' for stress. The compliments from friends aren't bad either, which has also called my H attention back to me a bit.He's such a great guy, but he's also human. I try to keep that in perspective. Thanks bill, you helped me tonight.

tere, thank you too. You really sound like a great person and your attitude is contagious. It's clear you really see the positive in your H as well and that's so much of the battle I believe. There's something about just talking to someone else, maybe especially anonymously this way that helps me too. And I have to say it helps to read from someone who is clearly trying so hard to work things out. So it's mutual.And as for running, I started a few years ago. Hated it!! Learned to tolerate it because I was feeling better. Now I can't go long w/o it. Look forward to it every day. It does feel good to stay in shape and highly recommend it to all. And there are some nice side benefits as well ;-)I hope your H appreciates you. I'm sure he does and all this is just suspicious-looking on the outside. Just keep on showing him what a mistake he would be making to damage what he has!!PS - and do check out the office - maybe on a Friday afternoon :-)

Now that's a great thought, because last Friday he came home early, but got paged to the office about 4:30, 'just to check in'. He called from the bedroom, but he didn't close the door and I was at the computer so I just sat and sort of listened. Well, I couldn't hear exactly what was being said, but it sounded a little too cushy for just office talk. I blew it off, pretended like I was listening. My gut tells me that this 'OW' is pursuing him, which if you knew him you would know why. He's the doctor everyone wants to work for, very happy and fun to work with, rarely loses his temper, rolls with the punches. Hey, that's what attracted me to him to begin with!!We are taking our children to the Charlotte race (Nascar) this weekend. We do this every Memorial Day, the kids LOVE it, and we enjoy racing so it is an all-around fun time. We usually alternate between Indy 500 and Charlotte, but for the last two years we have just gone to Charlotte because we can include the kids. H also goes to the Formula One race at Indy in September, but I can't get into that one so he goes with our brother-in-law. Last year, he got talked into a strip club by a friend while they were up there. I just found out about that a few weeks ago, he was too ashamed to tell me.Hope you are having a great day. I have Pilates and a run today, but have to take the truck in for an oil change and transmission check before the weekend trip, so I won't get any exercise til the afternoon, which will suck to run in. Yuck! Take care!

I know this thread is getting a little off topic, but so what right? ;-)So race fans, huh? I went to high school near Indy and used to go to the track for time trials, practices, and of course the race - every year. Haven't missed a race in years, even if I have to settle for TV!So it does sound like your H is really a great guy. Hopefully others here will find inspiration in your terrific attitude given your suspicions! (And this thread won't seem so off topic then) It sounds like you're doing your part to keep him interested at home. There are some really interesting posts on here about what causes an affair. One is the "Knight in Shining Armor" syndrome. Very elegantly written. If this OW is pursuing your H, show her who you are!! Go to the office on Friday afternoon 'dressed to kill' (so to speak :-). Stop it dead in its tracks before it happens, or gets any further along!I've read the suggestions to be careful disclosing info that someone may use to identify people here. While most really have nothing to hide, some may prefer their personal issues not complicate their professional lives. I do have a personal Web e-mail address that I have shared with a couple of people for just talking more. You seem 'sane' enough :-) that I would give that out if you wish. I think someone else mentioned how to get a Web e-mail acct. It's very easy.Pilates and a run!! You are serious. Use all that positive energy...

My H would not admit a thing for 4 years after his brief affair. Slowly, I discounted my gut instinct and lost all confidence in myself. All I did when I first suspected was ask if he had anything to tell me. He said no. I told him about (but did not show him) the long black hair I had found in our shower after I returned from a trip. For 4 years I kept my eye on his employee I suspected. Gradually, I lost my sense of self and did not want to face her at the office. But I also kept telling myself that he would never cheat, definitely not with HER, much less at our own home! Ocassionally, I would bring up my insecurities and he would say I had nothing to worry about and he was so lucky to have me and that he loved me. The affair had stopped then but my mind was still going crazy. Finally, last year, I wrote him a letter telling him I loved him and was committed to our marriage. I told him that I had been dealing with a lot of thoughts which were bringing me down and I had lost myself, felt like I was going crazy and needed answers to my questions. He responded that he loved me and if had given me anything to doubt that, he was truly sorry. So, I felt I had no choice but to show him the long hair which had haunted me for 4 years.He was caught and finally admittd his terrible mistake. He took full responsibility for it, would not blame her for coming to him when she had marital problems and still has her as an employee. He says he can't just fire her. No one at the office knows supposedly. He doesn't realize that SHE was willing to destroy his wife, children, family, and business for a night of sexual pleasure. Her marriage was already crumbling. She knew what she was doing. He did too, sort of. She doesn't know I know and he won't tell her because it could all come out to haunt us all. Boy, I do keep trying to take the high road but still get angry when I think about this....My point is that to get someone to confess, they need to feel completely loved and accepted and have the security of knowing they will not be screamed at or abandoned. That night, after his admission and countless apologies, we had sex. I really surprised myself doing that. But it felt right, he needed love and acceptance from me, even though I wasn't sure what I was going to do with the reality of it all. I was just so thankful to him for finally telling the truth. Our marriage has gotten much stronger, we can share anything, we are committed to have a life together and he swears it will never happen again. It is extremely hard but I believe him because I know he would not want to go through this again, not only because of the terrible pain it has brought us both, but because I would leave him immediately.I wish I had advice to share on how to get over it. I haven't gotten over it. That's why I am here looking for keys to recovery. But I do think gentleness it the best way to get the truth out in the open. The hard part comes after that. Good luck to you all.

Okay guys, back to the topic at hand and enough about trivial stuff. I guess I just keep hoping someone will say 'AHAH that sounds soooo suspicious!!'. It's not about anything except that I'm scared and I don't have anyone to really share this with.Anyway, guess where I had to go today? You got it, I had to go to the office to deliver some drinks for my husband's office refrigerator. Scarey stuff, I was TERRIFIED!! Yes, I met her, and yes they both acted a bit nervous, but everyone knew I was coming by. Her more than him, but he's a pro at covering his insecurities. She wouldn't even look me in the face! Guess that cinches it, huh? It was nice getting to see my H and talk about a trip we are planning for the summer. The rest left me a little unnerved. I tried to be pleasant and polite and even saw a friend of mine that works there, so that helped me get through it.I'm thinking about starting a new thread, cause this one is getting a bit lengthy. Look for me with some topic, don't even know what to title it yet. Thanks to everyone.

AHAH that sounds soooo suspicious!! there! better? :-)Still doesn't prove anything, but little things do add up... I do have more thoughts on this. I'll look for your new posts later. My e-mail is:bill9999md@yahoo.comA yahoo e-mail acct. is extremely easy to get, and private. If you're not comfortable e-mailing me, or a guy, or whatever about this, do find someone and keep talking. It does help.

Tere,I just have to tell you that I visited my H's office,the first and only time,when he worked with the OW coworker.(Remember this was about four years ago, and H just confessed about four months ago, so I didn't know she was OW at this time, didn't even suspect at this time). She was on the phone when I came in, off in a little side room. H took me around introducing me to everyone, when I walked in the room that she was in she looked up, then immediately back down, holding the phone, never making eye contact. My husband said, "That's "insert pathetic loser's name here" as we stood in the doorway looking in the room,and she never even looked up to smile, nod, or acknowledge me in any way. I stayed at the office maybe twenty minutes being introduced around and visiting with everyone. Had H's and my infant child with me. She never came out of the room. She was the only one in the office with whom I didn't talk. I thought it was odd then, even commented to my husband right there, and then later that night after we got home, about how rudely and oddly she behaved. Dumb me, huh? I just thought she was raised in a barn, as they say. This was actually before the "A" went physical, but as I now know she had been aggressively flirting with him at the time this described visit occurred.That was the only time I even came close to her, since H got another job shortly after, thank God.Your point about the suspected OW in your case not making eye contact with you absolutely gave me cold chills. I'm sorry to hint at bad news for you, it may not be anything, but I felt I had to share my story with you.

Dorie, thanks for that boost, I know where I am headed because we did have the initial breaking of the ice about all this last night which I just talked about on my 'NEW thread' so I won't rehash it here. If you like, check it out and let me know what you think. I feel our husbands are alot alike, for some reason, so your input is extremely welcome.Bill, gpsman started me a new thread so we don't have to go through three pages of boring history and wild tangents (my tangents, not anyone else's). Check it out and let me know what you think, buddy.

So much of what I just read sounds like my situation. I just know he had an affair and have tried to "catch" him but nothing turns up. When you only ssee the OW few times a year that makes it a hit or miss type of thing I think. I am always looking for someway to find evidence also other than that gift i found (I didn't get it) He swears he is not a liar and never cheated. I can almost believe that because i thought I knew him but that gift did it. He always denies too but we agree our marriage needed work and we are doing very well now-except i don't trust him and this hurts him alot. Good luck. Maybe we both should stop hunting and do everything to keep him happy. Lots of advice say that. So hard not to give up when you know you are right about that affair and want closure.

My advice is not for everyone, and clearly not in line with everyone's belief. I believe that constantly being paranoid and showing lack of trust is definitely a big LB. However when someone is faced with evidence that most reasonable people would consider pretty suspect, I'm not so sure it's best to ignore it. People can find themselves in a situation, regardless of how they got there, that they don't know how to get out of. Good people that just make a mistake. You've read the posts, it happens all the time! If something is happening, you want it stopped. That's what I believe is what would be best for a marriage. The longer something like that goes on, the greater the chance of a pregnancy or exposure to disease, etc. Not good.You can't live your life as though something is going on. That's what I think you're saying and I completely agree. You have to do your part and try harder to make things 'right' if you suspect (or even if you don't [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

). But if someone comes across something suspicious, I believe you owe it to the marriage to find out what it is. That may involve snooping. This gets into a gray area I understand, but there may be an appropriate time for it. Treat him great, watch the LB's and just recognize that this can happen to anyone.

See, that's the part I can't get past: this can happen to anyone and why should I be immune to it? I know what I know, but he is not going to tell me anything, period. I don't like the thoughts of a disease or a pregnancy creeping up to haunt me, but I am hoping that since he is a doctor he does stay prepared. I can just love him and not act paranoid. The hard part is the when he just wants a little time by himself in the evening, and I am terrified that he is calling her. It's harder to not break the rules. It takes alot of stamina, and I am so tired because of it.

Hey tere. Is it wearing you out because you are thinking about it too often? Say to yourself every day: it's not true. Repeat after me... "it's not true, it's not true, it's not true. But just in case, I'm going to have my eyes open." [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Don't let yourself feel like a fool for not seeing the signs, and at the same time make him realize what a fool he would be for not appreciating such a wonderful woman.Hey, and how about Tony Stewart!! And I think Helio has started a new race tradition with this climbing the fence thing. Pretty neat. Pretty funny.

tere,I am so glad I found your post. I am sure you have heard this a million times, but I am serious, I understand exactly how you feel. I am currently having the same problem with my husband. I am sure he has cheated on me, but I can't prove it. So what is one to do? I have read the posts and there is some great advice out there and when you are reading it, it seems like it will be okay, but when you are at home everything except the nagging in the back of your mind is left. I am so sorry to hear this is happening to you. I wish I could offer you comfort and advice, but I have been taking comfort and advice in the replies to your original post. It is tough and without any proof, how does one approach their spouse. I am praying for you.

I know how deeply it can hurt not to trust. You want to be able to trust. You want your spouse to say "I understand how you don't trust me and I will do everything I can to help restore that trust." But they aren't experiencing the hurt and can't see it the way you do. You want to know one way or another what the truth is. You may even say that you'd rather know that it's 'true', and then know for sure and have that behind you, than go on not knowing. All I can suggest is to try to create the environment where your spouse feels they can be honest with you. If it's TOO painful to tell the truth, it will never be told.Also, as I believe tere is trying, try very hard not to let it control and dominate your life. MUCH easier said than done I know. Treat your spouse as if it is not true, but don't feel too badly for checking on things if you have strong reason to be suspicions - you ultimately want it to stop (among other things). The usual, check phone bill, caller ID if you have it (some * combination such as *69 if you don't have caller ID will tell you last number that called), cell bills, try redial on the phone if you notice a suspicious phone call, unusual/suspicous computer activity, credit cards, etc, etc.You really just can't confront without strong proof. It's a big LB, and you will just ensure that your spouse starts being more careful and it will just be that much more difficult to ever come out into the open.

Nettie, thanks for replying. Bill is right, you can't let it control your life. My husband can't talk to me about deeply personal issues at present, except that he loves me dearly and would do anything in the world to not see me hurt. I take great comfort in that. I have my little clues, as I am sure you have read, but nothing more. My alledged OW is thinking about leaving my husband's office, so that is my high point at the present.We are coping, living day by day, and I have faith that one day we will be back where we use to be. As you have read, I have not been the best wife for a number of years, but I have apologized for it and I am trying to be the best I can now. When I am alone, and the thoughts begin to creep in, I exercise. Couldn't have told you that I would have done that a few years ago, but now it seems to be the best release for my stress. Do something for yourself, something you would never have done before. You'll be amazed at how good it makes you feel!!

Nettie,I know you are agonizing over did he or didn't he. My WS H had a brief fling with a coworker four years ago and I didn't find out until a few months ago, when he out of the blue confessed to me. I had "mild" suspicions then, not as strong or concrete as yours or terre38, but H and I were going through a rough time then. We have always had a tough time in our marriage, both were stubborn,and I must admit I wasn't meeting his needs very well at all, and he in turn, had withdrawn from meeting mine. But he changed from being the most peace-making, loving of the two of us to being the most withdrawn, depressed, angry - very angry, of the two of us at this time. So my only "clue" was a personality change in him, but that could've been attributed to all the changes in our lives this time : move, new child, and a new job for him, all of which, except the child of course, were wrong decisions and horrible for us - we knew it then, not just something we are looking back now and seeing. We both were unhappy in so many ways then. So, anyway, I thought changes in his personality had to do with those things, and all those things probably increased his vulnerability to having an A. But anyway, back then, I discounted an A. So how does this pertain to your situation? My H finally told me, not because I continued to suspect and twisted his arm for four years. No, actually I had forgotten all about that time in our lives, we never mentioned anything that occurred at that time of our lives (except "I'm glad that's over!") since it ALL was so terrible(we've moved and he no longer works with same employer, thank God). He says he told me because of changes within him, feeling as if God wanted him to tell me, and continued growing guilt. He had also read the book "THE HIDDEN VALUE OF A MAN" by Gary Smalley and Trent,last summer (ironically a book my MIL had given him four years ago at this very time because I had confided in her my concerns about his personality changes, and she was trying to help any way she can; he didn't touch the book back then).But most importantly, my H also has said that over the past two years he has seen more love from me, and the more loving I was to him, the more he felt he needed to get this out in the open so that we could have the marriage we had always dreamed of. So basically I guess I was PLAN A'ing without even knowing it, since I had never read the book SAA or HIS NEEDS,HER NEEDS. He has said that at the time of the A he didn't feel that I loved him (I know, classic line from WS), but I have to admit that looking over my actions and our marrige state back then, I can see how he would feel that. He says over the last two years he has felt that I REALLY DO love him..bottom line: he felt safe. He felt safe to tell me without fear that I would leave him.I know your H is different from mine, but I wanted to share my story with you to maybe give you,...HOPE? if nothing else. If you love him, keep loving him, make it safe for him. You can't change him or force him to tell you, but you can change you. I know it must be hard since you are going through it RIGHT NOW. I must add here that God was helping me do the right thing even when I didn't know it, (God always has helped me even when I didn't realize it until much later). So I had the benefit of ignorant bliss!I do hope things work out for you and your husband in the long run.

Tere (and other who have that sinking feeling):I have been both the BS and, more recently am a recovering WS. Lots of smoke here.Rule of honesty, rule of care, rule of protection: the confrontation does not have to be a brutal inquisition.Not enough evidence? I have seen references in this thread to software than can detect what happens on a computer: 007STARR by IoPus ... you can find it at <A HREF="http://www.iopus.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.iopus.com</A> ... You can either discuss it being installed ahead of time or install it in the "invisible mode" (if you do, during the installation, be sure to disable the option that displays the dialog box that warns the user the machine is being monitored) ... it violates the rule of honesty ... but as long as your spouse is in denial, you cannot take the necessary steps needed to recover. You can come clean during the A confrontation, when you present the Starr reports (hmmm ... wonder if there is connection to that guy Ken in Washington, DC?).The software is totally undetectable. I am a computer professional and have not found a way to crack it (not that I tried, I promised my W I wouldn't ... just professional curiosity in this case). If you know EXACTLY what to look for, it can be deleted, but that in itself is an indication. Since only you will have the password, etc. it is totally secure. The Star report is stored in a password-protected, encrypted format, so snooping through all files will reveal nothing. How you install it, I leave to your conscience and discretion. As a note: my W and I discussed it, and after weighing its importance to her peace of mind, I have installed it willingly.Godspeed and good luck, STL

I have considered the software, but I don't think it would be beneficial to me, because I don't think there would be anything to find in my case. I know my husband, know how he handled situations like this with his first marriage, and this just does not seem to be where he would be looking for companionship. He is a very physical person, so if there is an A it is a physical one. As sad as that makes me, at least I know what he is capable of.I am working very hard at avoiding a confrontation. I will be like Dorie, I will find this out in a few years when he is sure it shouldn't make any difference. I have decided when he does tell me, I'll just say 'I know'. In the meanwhile, the pretending like nothing has happened is my safety net, and we are becoming close again for the first time in years. I am keeping my eyes open, asking about work and how his day was. The funny thing: he is coming home from work early instead of late.