Dorie, thanks for that boost, I know where I am headed because we did have the initial breaking of the ice about all this last night which I just talked about on my 'NEW thread' so I won't rehash it here. If you like, check it out and let me know what you think. I feel our husbands are alot alike, for some reason, so your input is extremely welcome.<P>Bill, gpsman started me a new thread so we don't have to go through three pages of boring history and wild tangents (my tangents, not anyone else's). Check it out and let me know what you think, buddy.

So much of what I just read sounds like my situation. I just know he had an affair and have tried to "catch" him but nothing turns up. When you only ssee the OW few times a year that makes it a hit or miss type of thing I think. I am always looking for someway to find evidence also other than that gift i found (I didn't get it) He swears he is not a liar and never cheated. I can almost believe that because i thought I knew him but that gift did it. He always denies too but we agree our marriage needed work and we are doing very well now-except i don't trust him and this hurts him alot. Good luck. Maybe we both should stop hunting and do everything to keep him happy. Lots of advice say that. So hard not to give up when you know you are right about that affair and want closure.

My advice is not for everyone, and clearly not in line with everyone's belief. I believe that constantly being paranoid and showing lack of trust is definitely a big LB. However when someone is faced with evidence that most reasonable people would consider pretty suspect, I'm not so sure it's best to ignore it. People can find themselves in a situation, regardless of how they got there, that they don't know how to get out of. Good people that just make a mistake. You've read the posts, it happens all the time! If something is happening, you want it stopped. That's what I believe is what would be best for a marriage. The longer something like that goes on, the greater the chance of a pregnancy or exposure to disease, etc. Not good.<P>You can't live your life as though something is going on. That's what I think you're saying and I completely agree. You have to do your part and try harder to make things 'right' if you suspect (or even if you don't ). But if someone comes across something suspicious, I believe you owe it to the marriage to find out what it is. That may involve snooping. This gets into a gray area I understand, but there may be an appropriate time for it. Treat him great, watch the LB's and just recognize that this can happen to anyone.<BR>

See, that's the part I can't get past: this can happen to anyone and why should I be immune to it? I know what I know, but he is not going to tell me anything, period. I don't like the thoughts of a disease or a pregnancy creeping up to haunt me, but I am hoping that since he is a doctor he does stay prepared. <P>I can just love him and not act paranoid. The hard part is the when he just wants a little time by himself in the evening, and I am terrified that he is calling her. It's harder to not break the rules. It takes alot of stamina, and I am so tired because of it.

Hey tere. Is it wearing you out because you are thinking about it too often? Say to yourself every day: it's not true. Repeat after me... "it's not true, it's not true, it's not true. But just in case, I'm going to have my eyes open." <P>Don't let yourself feel like a fool for not seeing the signs, and at the same time make him realize what a fool he would be for not appreciating such a wonderful woman.<P>Hey, and how about Tony Stewart!! And I think Helio has started a new race tradition with this climbing the fence thing. Pretty neat. Pretty funny.<BR>

tere,<P>I am so glad I found your post. I am sure you have heard this a million times, but I am serious, I understand exactly how you feel. I am currently having the same problem with my husband. I am sure he has cheated on me, but I can't prove it. So what is one to do? I have read the posts and there is some great advice out there and when you are reading it, it seems like it will be okay, but when you are at home everything except the nagging in the back of your mind is left. I am so sorry to hear this is happening to you. I wish I could offer you comfort and advice, but I have been taking comfort and advice in the replies to your original post. It is tough and without any proof, how does one approach their spouse. I am praying for you.

I know how deeply it can hurt not to trust. You want to be able to trust. You want your spouse to say "I understand how you don't trust me and I will do everything I can to help restore that trust." But they aren't experiencing the hurt and can't see it the way you do. You want to know one way or another what the truth is. You may even say that you'd rather know that it's 'true', and then know for sure and have that behind you, than go on not knowing. All I can suggest is to try to create the environment where your spouse feels they can be honest with you. If it's TOO painful to tell the truth, it will never be told.<P>Also, as I believe tere is trying, try very hard not to let it control and dominate your life. MUCH easier said than done I know. Treat your spouse as if it is not true, but don't feel too badly for checking on things if you have strong reason to be suspicions - you ultimately want it to stop (among other things). The usual, check phone bill, caller ID if you have it (some * combination such as *69 if you don't have caller ID will tell you last number that called), cell bills, try redial on the phone if you notice a suspicious phone call, unusual/suspicous computer activity, credit cards, etc, etc.<P>You really just can't confront without strong proof. It's a big LB, and you will just ensure that your spouse starts being more careful and it will just be that much more difficult to ever come out into the open.<BR>

Nettie, thanks for replying. Bill is right, you can't let it control your life. My husband can't talk to me about deeply personal issues at present, except that he loves me dearly and would do anything in the world to not see me hurt. I take great comfort in that. I have my little clues, as I am sure you have read, but nothing more. My alledged OW is thinking about leaving my husband's office, so that is my high point at the present.<P>We are coping, living day by day, and I have faith that one day we will be back where we use to be. As you have read, I have not been the best wife for a number of years, but I have apologized for it and I am trying to be the best I can now. When I am alone, and the thoughts begin to creep in, I exercise. Couldn't have told you that I would have done that a few years ago, but now it seems to be the best release for my stress. Do something for yourself, something you would never have done before. You'll be amazed at how good it makes you feel!!

Nettie,<P>I know you are agonizing over did he or didn't he. My WS H had a brief fling with a coworker four years ago and I didn't find out until a few months ago, when he out of the blue confessed to me.<BR> <BR>I had "mild" suspicions then, not as strong or concrete as yours or terre38, but H and I were going through a rough time then. We have always had a tough time in our marriage, both were stubborn,and I must admit I wasn't meeting his needs very well at all, and he in turn, had withdrawn from meeting mine. But he changed from being the most peace-making, loving of the two of us to being the most withdrawn, depressed, angry - very angry, of the two of us at this time. So my only "clue" was a personality change in him, but that could've been attributed to all the changes in our lives this time : move, new child, and a new job for him, all of which, except the child of course, were wrong decisions and horrible for us - we knew it then, not just something we are looking back now and seeing. We both were unhappy in so many ways then. So, anyway, I thought changes in his personality had to do with those things, and all those things probably increased his vulnerability to having an A. But anyway, back then, I discounted an A. <P>So how does this pertain to your situation? My H finally told me, not because I continued to suspect and twisted his arm for four years. No, actually I had forgotten all about that time in our lives, we never mentioned anything that occurred at that time of our lives (except "I'm glad that's over!") since it ALL was so terrible(we've moved and he no longer works with same employer, thank God). He says he told me because of changes within him, feeling as if God wanted him to tell me, and continued growing guilt. He had also read the book "THE HIDDEN VALUE OF A MAN" by Gary Smalley and Trent,last summer (ironically a book my MIL had given him four years ago at this very time because I had confided in her my concerns about his personality changes, and she was trying to help any way she can; he didn't touch the book back then).<P>But most importantly, my H also has said that over the past two years he has seen more love from me, and the more loving I was to him, the more he felt he needed to get this out in the open so that we could have the marriage we had always dreamed of. So basically I guess I was PLAN A'ing without even knowing it, since I had never read the book SAA or HIS NEEDS,HER NEEDS. He has said that at the time of the A he didn't feel that I loved him (I know, classic line from WS), but I have to admit that looking over my actions and our marrige state back then, I can see how he would feel that. He says over the last two years he has felt that I REALLY DO love him..bottom line: he felt safe. He felt safe to tell me without fear that I would leave him.<P>I know your H is different from mine, but I wanted to share my story with you to maybe give you,...HOPE? if nothing else. If you love him, keep loving him, make it safe for him. You can't change him or force him to tell you, but you can change you. I know it must be hard since you are going through it RIGHT NOW. <P>I must add here that God was helping me do the right thing even when I didn't know it, (God always has helped me even when I didn't realize it until much later). So I had the benefit of ignorant bliss!<P>I do hope things work out for you and your husband in the long run.

Tere (and other who have that sinking feeling):<P>I have been both the BS and, more recently am a recovering WS. Lots of smoke here.<P>Rule of honesty, rule of care, rule of protection: the confrontation does not have to be a brutal inquisition.<P>Not enough evidence? I have seen references in this thread to software than can detect what happens on a computer: 007STARR by IoPus ... you can find it at <A HREF="http://www.iopus.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.iopus.com</A> ... You can either discuss it being installed ahead of time or install it in the "invisible mode" (if you do, during the installation, be sure to disable the option that displays the dialog box that warns the user the machine is being monitored) ... it violates the rule of honesty ... but as long as your spouse is in denial, you cannot take the necessary steps needed to recover. You can come clean during the A confrontation, when you present the Starr reports (hmmm ... wonder if there is connection to that guy Ken in Washington, DC?).<P>The software is totally undetectable. I am a computer professional and have not found a way to crack it (not that I tried, I promised my W I wouldn't ... just professional curiosity in this case). If you know EXACTLY what to look for, it can be deleted, but that in itself is an indication. Since only you will have the password, etc. it is totally secure. The Star report is stored in a password-protected, encrypted format, so snooping through all files will reveal nothing. How you install it, I leave to your conscience and discretion. As a note: my W and I discussed it, and after weighing its importance to her peace of mind, I have installed it willingly.<P>Godspeed and good luck,<BR>STL

I have considered the software, but I don't think it would be beneficial to me, because I don't think there would be anything to find in my case. I know my husband, know how he handled situations like this with his first marriage, and this just does not seem to be where he would be looking for companionship. He is a very physical person, so if there is an A it is a physical one. As sad as that makes me, at least I know what he is capable of.<P>I am working very hard at avoiding a confrontation. I will be like Dorie, I will find this out in a few years when he is sure it shouldn't make any difference. I have decided when he does tell me, I'll just say 'I know'. In the meanwhile, the pretending like nothing has happened is my safety net, and we are becoming close again for the first time in years. I am keeping my eyes open, asking about work and how his day was. The funny thing: he is coming home from work early instead of late.