Hi folks, I really don't know what to do or who to turn to. I don't know where to start either, so I will start at the beginning. My name is Matt and my wife of 8 years (5-7-94)and the love of my heart is Candy. I have anger and control issues. The anger I am not sure where that comes from. The control is from growing up under the control of my mother. I started going to counsling about 4 weeks ago. Candy started going back in January. I was supposed to go in January too, but I didn't. I tried to take a short cut and just skip ahead to a marriage counselor. We went to see him 1 time and were both very uncomfortable with his personality. We never went back. About a month ago we had a fight/argument and the crux of the matter was that I hadn't lived up to our agreement about the counselors. It was during this time that I was asked to leave. I said no, that I wasn't walking away from her or this marriage, and that I would immediately seek help. Even she admits that I have formed some dramatic changes in the way I deal with the kids (2 boys) and her. She still considers divorce a solution. Back in '01 I started to feel like something was wrong. I tried to get her to tell me about it but she wouldn't. She had tried before to talk to me but was always met with anger. Well, she started talking to Steve, a guy from work. She never cheated on me, but I still felt like she had had an affair; because she was investing herself emotionally with him. When I found out about all this I was, and still am, destroyed. My heart hurts so bad physically that I just want it to stop beating. Anyway, we went to San Francisco the last weekend in April and had a great time. I felt like we were actually getting started on rebuilding our marriage. But now, she is in daily contact via e-mail with her ex-husband and I think that she wants him to make her feel better. I don't know how, all I know is that I feel like she isn't investing in us anymore and is investing in him. I know that I have hurt her in the past, I have accepted the responsability for my actions, I have told that I love her and will change and take care of her the way that she needs. I just don't see that she has any hope or is interested in working to make this marriage better. She has told me that she needs time..o.k., I her to tell me somehow if I am meeting her needs. I can't even tell if she loves me anymore.
Please help.

Killstuff,<p>Welcome to MB. First of all, please read all the concepts on the site. I would describe what your W (wife)had as an EA (emotional affair). It is still an A (affair). Because of your behavior in the past, you have withdrawn LB$ (love bank units) from your Ws LB. This has caused her to not feel in love with you anymore. You need to make LB$ in order for her to again feel the way she used to for you. You do this by meeting her ENs (Emotional Needs). Now, because of the way your W is feeling, she is probably not going to want to give you a lot of information about how you are meeting her ENs. I recommend that you ask her to complete the EN Questionaire (it can be printed from this site). If she is unwilling to do this, you should complete the questionaire as if you were your W. Then you should start trying to meet those ENs. Do not expect much response at first. When you get a hint from her that something has worked to make some deposits, make a note and then do it again. The other thing you need to do is read the concepts on LBs (love busters). These are things that withdraw $ from the Love Bank -- disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts, selfish demands, and whatever else would be on her list. You need to avoid doing these things at all costs. <p>Doing all of these things is called a Plan A. Actually you are improving yourself be deeping your understanding of Rs (relationships) and learning to be the best M (marriage) partner you can be. These things should help your wife to recover those feelings for you, but keep in mind that if she is currently involved in an A -- emotional or passionate -- she will be in what is called the fog and it will be difficult to get through to her. It will take time, patience and persistence, but the results are worth it.<p>Keep coming here and posting and venting. This is a really good place for advice. It helped me through some rough times. <p>Good luck.<p>FHO

Killstuff,
Your situation rings familiar w/ me. I have similiar anger issues that are most likely due to controlling mother and her D. For several yrs I wasn't treating W well at all. Behavior ranged from anger to latent neglect. I did the manly (yeah right!) thing and hid in my work. If you want more info on how our R's might be the same, read the strings that CWMAC started especially Emotional Affairs.
Anyway, based upon my situation I would suggest that you focus on your Plan A. Your W may have noticed a change but like my W she may think it's a fluke or a temporary change due to panic over the R situation. If you can continue a successful Plan A, she may notice and that will open things back up. I was like you I wanted my W to respond immediately to my successful Plan A. I needed more patience.
Now that Plan A has been in effect and working for almost three months, we have been able to recently talk about the other issues in the M ie her EA with a friend. Again, the story sounds similiar. She turned to this friend to discuss our R and that got the OM to open up about his R w/ his W. The EA was off and running as SH says.
This board really helped me in my time of need so I'm here for others.

KS,
I am exactly where you are at...Anger issues...and neglect of my W EN's. I have been given the advice to work on being happy around my spouse, which is hard right now cause the way I feel, but I will give it my darndest. I am taking meds to control my anger and have been seeing a counselor. good luck

Thanks for the advice folks. I have been and will keep trying...it's just so painful to be living in limbo. I don't know how to feel. I guess I had should be happy that we are still together. But even though she is pysically here I don't feel like she's emotionally here. This is really tough to deal with. I can't even ask her to talk even a little without her getting angry..is that 'normal' for this kind of thing? I know that I need to give her time to see the changes are for good and not temp. but I kon't know how to act around her...I feel like I am on some pretty thin eggshells right now. I just pray that God will open her heart to see the love I have for her. Thanks again folks.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Thanks for the advice folks. I have been and will keep trying...it's just so painful to be living in limbo. I don't know how to feel. I guess I had should be happy that we are still together. But even though she is pysically here I don't feel like she's emotionally here. This is really tough to deal with. I can't even ask her to talk even a little without her getting angry..is that 'normal' for this kind of thing? I know that I need to give her time to see the changes are for good and not temp. but I kon't know how to act around her...I feel like I am on some pretty thin eggshells right now. I just pray that God will open her heart to see the love I have for her. Thanks again folks.<hr></blockquote><p>Part of me wants to pull no punches. Another part of me wonders how to get you to see that the above paragraph could easily have been written by your wife.<p>If you are prone to angry outbursts, she knows what it's like to walk on thin eggshells. She knows what it's like to want God to open your heart to see the love she had for you. How hard it was for her to live in limbo, never knowing if you were going to come home as a sweetheart or a rager.<p>Sit with that for a while - that she has had these feelings a lot longer than you - that's why she's so far into withdrawl. But then, since you found this site, have agreed to counseling and have started making drastic changes, you also have the chance to make conscious love deposits more frequently, and avoid lovebusters.<p>Cerri on the very long, never ending thread started by Persistent, made a statement quoting Dr. Harley that really described what you are about to embark upon. He (Dr. Harley) was counseling a couple and the husband had been doing really good except for what he described as a few slips, but the guy's wife was retreating further into withdrawl. I'm paraphrasing this, when Dr. Harley said, "What you call a little slip, your wife sees as validation that you will never completely change and are not to be trusted."<p>So no matter what, any "angry outburst" is forbidden ground that you dare not walk on again if you hope to win your wife's trust back.<p>Once you have that mastered, and she is beginning to feel safe talking to you about her feelings, you can talk with her about POJA (Point of Joint Agreement) in regard to ex-husband and "Steve". Until then, anything you try to do to curtail her confiding in them will be seen as "controlling behavior" - a close cousin to Angry Outbursts.<p>Hope this helps.

[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Thank you KaylaAndy...I didn't realize that what I had written is what W has felt for so long. That realization made me shamefull of the past. Thanks for helping me see.

good for you, ks, shame for what you have done in the past is hope that you will never do it again.<p>Of course, you may slip, but it is so important that you don't. Keep reading...get Harley's books...esp. Lovebusters...sounds like that is your killer. And be sensible as to what you can do with your W that will build love$...this is gonna be a marathon...are you up to that?

I really appreciate everyones advice...I really need the support your all showing me...it helps me to be mindful of my actions and words. We do have HNHN and LB, I also bought a book written by a Dr. that specializes in angry men...I was shocked to see my own behaviors on paper written by someone else. I am just really worried that she has NO desire AT ALL to let me meet her ENs. I feel like, because she seems to write her EH (ex-husband)all the time, that the next thing she will do is ask him to call her and then she will be talking to him and wanting him to fulfill her ENs. She told me last night that he(EH) said that he wanted to talk to me. I told her that I would...if she wanted me to. If she didn't want me to I wouldn't. She said she preferred me not to. I am o.k. with that. But then again, I feel like she might be hididng something about them (current) from me like she did in January w/Steve. I want so much to rid my heart of these feelings...I just don't know what to do.
Thanks again folks,
Matt

I don't have any words of wisdom on how to get her to meet your needs at this point - partly because I think wanting her to meet your needs is premature. <p>I have a friend who was diagnosed with a brain disorder who had to stop walking for a time to retrain the neuropathways in her brain the correct way - in other words, she had to crawl everywhere she wanted to go in her home. She had to completely stop walking - it was humiliating for her, but it was also very hard because of the habit of walking - she was 21 years old when she did this. But because she stopped focusing on her fear and her "expectations on herself" and did the necessary work. <p>I bring that up because there's some remedial behavioral work to do on your own before you can start working on the relationship. HNHN talks about meeting her needs regardless of whether or not she's meeting yours. But you're going to find it difficult to work from this level of maturity when there's remedial anger management and learning appropriate ways of managing emotions all together to be done. <p>If you can, read threads by Persistent, HOFFS, Cerri and others who have been successful at setting aside their own needs to meet their spouse's needs regardless. You'll see others who, like you, are focused on the fact that their own needs aren't getting met, and they try to use the MB program to get those needs met. I can promise you that you will not find recovery in your marriage as long as you are using the program for this express purpose. Sadly, as excellent a Plan A as Persistent has done, his wife is still not responsive - YET. There have been moments of breakthroughs, but she's still in the habit of withdrawl. <p>I have been working a Plan A most of the time for the past 3 years and before that, I was learning the principles of HNHN and Lovebusters for almost five years before that. Only in the last nine months has my own husband been relatively successful at eliminating the number one lovebuster in his own behavior - it took that much nurturance on my part and being patient with him and his own desire to have a good marriage that brought him to this point. He posts on the EN board as Kasey1. <p>If you are in this for the long haul, no matter what the outcome, you are going to be the kindest, most patient and forgiving husband you can be, it will turn for your good!<p>And you have a great cheering crowd here who can help you.<p>P.S. you will find as you recover, that your name no longer fits. Looking forward to seeing the transformation! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

KaylaAndy..thank you for your input. Again you have helped me retain focus on where it needs to be.<p>P.S. Killstuff is what I do for a living...I am a Pest Elimination Service Specialist. (Talk abut getting to your frustrations out in a beneficial way! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I know it has been sometime since I have posted. Thanks to all who have been trying to help. Here's the latest.
May 21-23 I had to go out of town for a funeral. While I was gone, w's EH called her on her cell. They talked for she says 10 or 15 minutes. Yes, that was hard to hear. At the same time the thoughts in my mind were that she had told him to call during this time, as I was gone. I told her this and she said that he just happened to call at this time. Since then, I can't help but feel that W and EH are talking daily. The other day she got out of work on time but sat out in the parking lot for 1/2 hour talking to him. Of course I think that she called him. Why? Just because of the tone of her voice and the way she said things. Anyway, she says that she would rather be friends with him than have him not like her. ?!?!?!?! This is something I don't understand at all!!! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] They hadn't had any contact for about 6 or 7 years, he never tried to get ahold of us about his son (the oldest of our 2 boys)or anything. Now, all of sudden W is all worried about the way that EH feels towards her. I have told her that I feel extremely uncomfortable about this. (a broken leg is easier to deal with) She says that they talk about the boy and that I don't trust her. Well, to a point she is right. I don't totally trust her because of what happened in January '01. I also don't think that she is trying to do what she says she wants to, which is save our marriage. While I was gone she said that she would fill out the EN questionnaire. I am still waiting to see that happen. She won't even read the one that I filled out. I don't think that she is lying to me, per se. I just don't feel like she is telling me the whole truth. Because of this, I am hurt and sngry. I don't know whether or not to trust her. (trust issue is from childhood) What I want to do is to tell her that I don't want her talking to EH. But when I say that I feel that way she says that I won't let her to anyone. The only reason that I haven't pitched a total fit on this is that I don't want to be 'controlling'. At the same time my fear of appearring controlling and not telling her not to talk to him is hurting me. I just have a fear that their little tete a tetes are more than I am being told. She has told me that EH's current wife is feeling the same way that I do. He doesn't want her to know that they are talking. That says to me that he feels like they (my W and her EH) are doing something "wrong" or at least not above board.
The other thing is that W said that she fill out the EN questionairre. I really want to know what she has to say to these ?'s so we can start working to save the marriage. Things are pretty much at a stand still for us and they really need to move forward. Time is the answer, right?
Well, thanks for listening to me babble again folks. I really appreciate having you all to talk to.

oopps. not Jan. '01 should be Jan. 02

Killstuff,
Welcome back!!<p>The question I have is how are you coming on yourself? your Plan A? working on controlling the anger and the control issues? Please give us an update and it may tell us mor about W. Are you still LBing W. <p>Remember I had similiar situation. My W didn't respond untim she had ssen 60 days or more of effective Plan A. Why? She thought it was short term. More like short term amnesia and she was afraid for the day when the "old" H would return. So if you aren't well into your Plan A then all of your R talks w/ W about friend from work or EH are going to fall on deaf ears. W will just think that the control freak is back. <p>So let us know how Plan A is going.<p>Take care

cwmac;
The Plan A for myself is going forward alright. Its been almost 3 weeks since I saw my counselor because of the funeral (it was in IL and I live in NV). I have been working on the anger problem and know that I will never be able to stop working on it. I feel like it was an addiction. It made it easier for me to deal with stuff by being angry. Anyway...the anger is still under the surface, but not in control of me. I control it. I know that there have been a couple of days/ times where I have slipped a little. I can't be perfect all of the time.
As for the LBing...I don't think so; at least in my eyes. She won't fill out the ?aire for me to see what LB's there are that I do. I try to not get angry and for the most part succeed. I try not to be controlling and I know that I have gotten better on this issue. The only thing that I can say is the LB right now that I am doing is this thing with her EH. I just don't know how to deal with it. My mind tends to work against me on this thing too. I have almost felt like looking into medication because of this. But, I don't want to be drugged up because then I wouldn't be able to fix myself the right way.
The one bright and shining star that keeps me from totally freaking out is that the other night we talked and she said the the one thing that she fears more than anything is that in a few months I will just say "The heck with this" and leave. Working against this good thing is my fear that she will do the same thing. Also, if she is so afraid of losing me, then why is she so obsessed with talking to EH when she knows how much pain and yes, some anger, this causes. I feel like she is playing a game with this sometimes. This feeling makes me want to ditch this rollercoaster. I am so confused about this. I don't want to lose her and she says that she doesn't want to lose me...yet, she keeps doing the one thing that she knows is like a knife in my side. All I can do is love her.

Killstuff,
Despite how you are feeling, it sounds as though you are making some progress as witnessed by her comments the other night. My advice is to be patient!! Keep working on your Plan A, don't get angry, don't control. Give it some time. <p>My MC gave a great analogy. He said that my years of anger and controlling behavior towards W had caused her heart to harden against me. It will be awhile before the harden layers can be melted away with acts of kindness, thoughtfulness and love. The healing does not happen overnight!!<p>Take care