H and I went and bought roofing stuff. Being delviered on Sunday. H and his brother are going to tear off the old roof tomorrow, I get clean up duty. Then Sunday and Monday they plan on putting on the new roof. I wish we could just add a layer. We have to tear off. We have slowly discovered that the previous owners cut many corners on the house, so we need to see if the wood under the shingles is good.

H left to go get brother from airport. BIL job takes him out of town. H came back, was home for about 15 min, then said he was going to see his borther again. That was about an hour ago. He lives about 15 mins from us. I am not going to dwell on where he is. But I'm sure I know. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

I have homework to do. Lots of it. So off to the homework.

H keeps talking about us selling the house in a year or two and moving up north. I don't want to move up north. Besides, I am not going to give him the opportunity to say, since I'm working in the cities, I will stay with my mom during the week, and come home for weekends. He tried that one once before. That will not fly with me.

Beside, I dont' want to move up north. I want to stay in the area we are in. My family is here, and they are very helpful and supportive of me. There is no way they will drive 45 min - 1 hour to babysit for me. If we sell and move, it will be to move where I want to, and only where I want to, otherwise, we stay put. Some things in life are not negotiable. Yes, us moving would put distance between him and OW. Not if he started staying at his mom's. Or would he be staying at mom's?

Well, homework does not get done if I'm out here.

Hi Sue,

how about calling BIL's house and asking about some houseproject that you "just forgot" to talk about before H left. That way you find out where H is (sneaky...but justified).

I have been reading in the recovery forum today...yeah, that's pretty bold - I know. Sounds like I am moving from the ICU to rehab.

There's this lady who put a tape recorder in WH's car and taped him talking to OW after no contact letter. I was all shocked by how bad this world is and came back here really fast.

What kind of homework do they give you? Case scenarios?

See if you know this one: What do you do if you find a construction worker in NAD?
a. assess VS
b. remove shirt
c. all
d. neither
e. I need more data
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Over from MC's thread, so he has asked you to make more time and you have ignored this because you think you cannot afford it. What if you talk to him about this. Maybe he might be willing to work more hours and take time off from his entertainment activities, so you can afford to take time off work and spend it together. Managing 3 children, work and school is tough; I can't imagine how you do it. Obviously you must be tired and busy and this probably does have an unconscious effect on the marriage. He might just be keeping himself occupied with his activities while you are busy with your separate life.

- Relate

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Hi Relate-he kept hiself busy before I went to school. Unfortunately my going to school means he has to stay home evenings now.

How do I do it, I got to bed right when I get home, I'm up at 6:00, washd dishes, make H's lunch, run kids to daycare/school depending upon the day and child. Then either off to school for me, or back home to study and clean house. I try to do 1 - 2 loads of laundry per day. If i have time clothes get put away, if not, they stay folded in the laundry basket. Kids are getting better at helping. So the house is not as disaterous as it used to be. Last year my neice came in every saterday and helped clean. I paid her 20.00 (she was very underpaid).

Liza,

In answer to your question, I'm not sure what NAD means but I will take a shot,

the Answer is C. ALL, an if those VS are a little too stable, then I'm not doing my job.

We are starting Case studies this year. Next semester I understand we get into it very heavy.

I am one hurting unit today, yesterday, saterday. I didn't realize that cleaning up after H and BIL while they were on the roof was such hard work. I won't get on the roof. Too much of a chicken. I get 1/2 way up the ladder and I freeze, so I said I would do clean up, so they could concentrate on roof.

One more thing, I tape all lectures and listen too them while I work. It helps. A coworker proof reads my papers for clarity and grammer.

<small>[ September 02, 2002, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

I think you should talk about making more time for each other. You should start the conversation like "I know I've been neglecting you because of my busy days and how tired I feel at the end of it. I'd like to spend some time alone with you." Then drop off the kids with someone one day.

You could tell him that it is only going to be like this for 9 more months and then you will have more time *and* more money.

- Relate

<small>[ September 02, 2002, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Relate ]</small>

Hi Sue,

how is the new roof?

I posted today in my thread -good new things are happening with our recovery.

And thanks for your tip with the hyperlinking. I managed today to put that article hyperlink in my old post-I was so proud when it worked. Maybe computer illiteracy is curable after all.

Take care and let us know what's going on with you.

Hi Relate,

I have tried for 5 years to get him to spend time with me. This is not a recent development because of my school. He does not want to be seen with me. I've tried to get him to let me come to his softball games (4 night per week, it used to be 5 nights per week and every weekend was a softball tournament which I was not allowed to come to). I'v offered for us to get a sitter and we go out. He rejects my offers. This has been going on since we have been married. Back in 1999 I suspected he started up with her again. I went back to school in 2000.

Since we have been married, before i went back to school, I worked during the day. I took the kids to daycare, I picked the kids up from daycare (he got off work 1 hour before me and refused to pick up the kids). I made dinner every night, I cleaned the house everynight, I did laundry everynight. Then I went to bed. He would come home from work, take a nap, get up for dinner, and leave, sometimes he was going to ball, othertimes he was going to the hardware store for nails or something. He usually left around 6, return around 9, he very seldom bought the item he went for. At some point, he decided that he could make more money if he went out of state for 3 months. His union got word that another union was short workers and there was mega overtime, plus the union scale was higher. I agreed to a 3 month time period. He was gone nine months. It was during this time, I went back to school. At first I took one class per semester at night until I got all of the liberal arts stuff out of the way. That left me with only nursing classes. Generally class was one night per week. During the time before I changed my hours to second shift, I asked many times for us to go out. He refused about 99% of the time. When I would ask in advance, his response was "we'll see. I have to see if something better comes up". The problems in my marriage did not develop because of my going back to school, it was going on before that. Our D was born in 1998, he missed her ultrasound because he was somewhere else. When she was 6 months old, I threw my bakc out. My oldest son who was 5 at the time had to help me, since my H would not. This is the time he decided that he needed to go out of state to work. I was on restrictions from my Dr, such as no vacuuming. He would not help. I had to continue with the housework, with a very sore back. I could not stand up straight for about 2 months it was that bad. I repeat, the problem is not my being in school. This all started long before I went back to school. One more thing, H has never offered to work more hours so I could cut back. When he was working out of state, the $$ came irregular, that I had to get a second job to make ends meet. I had to take money from my kids savings accounts to pay bills. He always sent it, eventually, but not in time to pay bills. I received letters from the gas company, phone company threatenting to disconnect. I'm not mad if it sounds that way. I'm crying as I type all of this because I deserve better and I know it. The kids deserve better. Once I told him he showed me disrespect when he just goes and does what he wants - his response was "Respect is over rated, beside, what do you mean I don't respect you, I married you"

Hi Liza,

Things are okay. I failed my first test. I had only one day to study for it because H decided that he had to go out of town for the weekend. D had dance, which my sister took her to because I had to take both sons to get their soccer uniforms for their game on Sunday. H is going out of town next week (all week). For fun. I had to arrange babysitters for his vacation. He takes about 3 trips per year, and non of them include the family. So, why do I want to stay married to this man. When I figure it out, I'll let you know.

My son calls me almost daily because he is so frustrated over his homework, and I hear H yelling at him in the background to just "do it". He does not sit down with him and help him or guide him. I end up helping him over the phone.

On the plus side, the school has a "building stronger families" program. H has agreed to attend. Now, he is trying to get out of it, but I told him he agreed, we are signed up. We have to attend, and that it will be good for the kids.

Hi, Sue:

Wow! Reading over your last post about your relationship also made me wonder why you want to be married to this man. There has to be more there. What are the admirable qualities about him that made you fall in love with him? Also, why does he not want to be seen with you? Does he not want anyone to know he is married? Do you not meet his definition of an AS?

It sounds like your H is very selfish -- he wants to do what he wants to do, when he wants to do it and it does not matter what anyone else wants or needs: his needs come first. This is a really bad role model for your kids to grow up seeing. I only hope and pray that your H will get a little less foggy and realize that counseling could really help. Good that you are getting him to attend "Building Better Families". Maybe something will show him that he is not being a good role model for his kids.

Keep studying.

FHO

It seems like he's been in withdrawal for a long time. You have been very patient and tirelessly acted for the best interest of the family. You seem to be very strong, hardworking and patient and deserve a husband who apprecites you and loves you for all you do.

I think what you are doing is exactly right. After 8 more months you will be in a position to decide whether you want to go to plan B.

- relate

He was not like this in the beginning. We met about 10 or 11 years ago, the first 3 years or so, were good. He changed after I second child was born. When our 2nd child was 6 months old, he left. He had met her about a month or two before he left. He went to live with a friend. Then they got a place together.(this I did not know about until after we got married). About 6 months after he left, I saw the old H back. I didn't trust it would last, so I refused to get back together until I was sure all was well again. It took me 2 years to take him back, and even then I refused to until we were married. He wanted to live together, I said not unless we are married. For about a year, things were okay, then slowly I saw the "Yucky" H come back.

The man I first met was thoughtful, considerate, repectful. He helped around the house. When I got pregnant with our first son, he was with at most of the appt. He worried that I was overdoing things, he insisted I quit my second job I was working at the time. He didn't want me to over do it. (I couldn't quit the job at that time, he was in school and we needed the income to support all of us, so I cut back on hours). I was at his ballgames, after our son was born, the first night home from the hosp, he took me out to dinner at a nice restuarant. He finished school that year. I quit the second job and worked one job. He helped take care of him, took him places. We were at his ball games, H played coached hockey that year with his uncle, we were at the games. 6 months later I got pregnant again. (not trying. each pregnancy was a failed birthcontrol, just my luck). By the time son #2 was born, H was withdrawn, not helping, leaving messes, spending money we could not afford. When I saw some of the old H back, I thought that maybe it was some sort of phase he was going through and he was over it. You know, the responsibility of 2 children one right after the other. I though maybe he was over it. When he started taking me out again, I approached it cautionsly. I didn't want to set myself up. That is why I would not take him back for a while and I would not live with him unless we were married. These days, he goes back and forth between the good H and the bad H. (I dont' know how to refer to it.) He is not as bad as he was, but he not as good as he used to be.

I'm hoping that this group we are partcipating in, may help him see what makes a healthy family. I try to keep in mind, he didn't have much for role models in his growing up. He is a far cry better than his own father was. Mom divorced dad when he was young. Dad was abusive. Visitations were irratic, and when they did visit, dad took him to a bar because dad was involved in dart tournaments, cribbage tournaments, and would not give up one game for his visitation time. Mom, would leave H to look after his younger brother, and she was not home much. Usually at some church group. He said that he didn't have much in the line of adult supervision. No one made him do his homework, no one was home to prepare dinner. Usually fixed ahead of time in a crockpot. He would come home from school fix himself a plate and sit down infront of the TV. In some ways, we have made progress. He is seeing the value of being home, but in his mind, it is okay for him to take off when he wants with no regard for me.

Sometimes I think it is hopeless. But, I won't dwell on that right now. I have to get through school. If my M does not work, I need to be able to support my children. I cannot do it on my current income.

Dear Sue,

I thought a lot about your story... it seems that sometimes in life there is just nothing that we can do. You write that your H changes between the "good" and "bad" personalities. It made me feel really helpless, too, when I saw this change just once in my H. It is just not fair when the most important person in one's life acts like that.

You have been through a lot more than me...my heart goes out to you. Keep up the trying to work on your M for the next months until you are free to make a decision.

But listen, girl, instead of posting here (and I always love to hear from you, especially construction worker stories...)- hit the books!!! Next time we want to celebrate an A in your tests. O.K.?

And wow...I finally figured out how to get an email account. If you want to email me: iceprincessmail@yahoo.com.

All the best

I think it is a good idea to get him involved with the children. When you have the time again, perhaps try again to get him involved in a joint interest and spend time alone together. Maybe this is the general ebb and flow of marriage. The only worry is the long term OW. Is she not married?

You are doing all the right things. I am learning from you.

- relate

OW is not married. She lives at home with her parents. If I'm correct on her age, she is 28. (A little old to be living at home). This has me wondering, is there an OC???????? Is that the connection??????????.

Today was a little better. Last night, H was up when I got home. He wants to know if I can get time off to go to Hawaii (I don't know where the money will come from). I told him I'd love to go, but I don't know if I can get the time off of work. If we did go, it would have to be inbetween semesters. If he wanted to be real nice, he could make it a graduation present. Yes, I might be out of vacation, but If we planned it right, we could save $$ to make up for the unpaid week I'd be gone and we could put in so we went after I quit this job and before I start a new one.

He left this morning for Colorado. fishing trip (I don't know if she is with or not.) He did an odd thing, he hugged me. He does not do that.

Okay, here comes a bitter thought, I'm allowed one per week. Is he trying to give me a nice trip before he leaves (guilt on his part). Okay, bitterness gone now. I'm sure this is not it. As we know as BS's, we have a hard time trusting their motives when they are nice. I accept them when it happens. Maybe it is because he wants me to mow the lawn while he is gone. OOPs, did I mess up and have another bitter thought. I guess that means I can't have any next week.LOL

Wow,

Thanks for all the information on the past. In a way it is really scary. I know that as a BS I hated the "bad" H. I can remember just about the time he changed. It was so weird -- he just wasn't the same person any more.

What makes them change? I really struggle with this question. It's probably a chicken-egg thing. Did they meet the OP first and then change or did they change and that allowed what happened with the OP? I really don't believe the answer that they had the A because some of their needs were unmet. After all, there are a whole group of us BSs out here struggling all the time with some of our needs being unmet and we didn't run off and have an A. And I don't really believe that it is because of lack of opportunity. There is always the opportunity to go down that path if you want.

I guess the reason the "bad" S -- H or W -- is a scary concept is that until you really figure out what makes them turn in Mr. Hyde, you won't know how to prevent it. Therefore, you are never safe. I know that there are some ways to help prevent Mr. Hyde (understanding S's ENs and meeting them) but they are not foolproof. I know that during my H's Mr. Hyde days, I wasn't doing a terrible job of meeting his needs -- I just became a little proccupied with pursuing something I wanted to do (my law school). It wasn't even for that long of a time -- I was busy for a couple of months. That was all he needed to become Mr. Hyde. That is very scary to me. So, basically, if I ever take my eye off the ball in the future, if I slip, if I make a mistake, I could have to relive all of this? This really depresses me. I know I am not perfect.

In your case it seems your H bounces back and forth between "good" H and "bad" H. Why??????????? What is the trigger?????????? Issues that he has to work through????? It is really puzzling.

I think the Hawaii trip is a great idea. You shoul do it. I know that sometimes $$ are an issue and I think most of us tend to put off this type of fun stuff. However, this fun stuff is what brings us closer together. It makes memories that we need to get through the rough stuff. Also, I hear Hawaii is spectacularly beautiful (I have never been and will envy you the trip).

Well, as you can see from above, I don't have any answers or insight for you. I still have a lot of questions myself and your story makes me have more. I wonder whether my H will go back to Mr. Hyde some day. Prior to D-day, if I had to bet, I would have bet me life that my H was too wonderful, caring, understanding and had too much integrity to ever have an A. Well, if I had, I would now not be writing this -- ha, ha. I guess right now I am making that same bet again.

Hang in there. Hope things are going well with school. Sorry about the test.

FHO

If we do get to go to Hawaii, I want to go in the winter, get away from the subzero stuff for a week. With our luck it will be like when we went to Vegas to get Married. We got married in December. Vegas, they said is usually 60 - 70 weather in December. When we were there, 40's. So, I figure, Hawaii will have it a snowfall. LOL. Honestly, I would like to wait until I finish school. It would make a great graduation present. But, it will be hard to go in the winter, if it is a graduation present (graduate in May). HMMMM Have to think about this one. H did acknowledge one thing, so I guess sometimes he does hear me. When he brought up Hawaii, he said, I know, you don't want to go until you get back in shape. Once he mentioned a cruise, and I said, I want to be thin before I go on something like that. (gotta have new clothes for the trip) (okay, I dont' have to have new clothes, I want new clothes) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

H booked a vacation for August in Wisconsin. I like visiting Wisconsin. Nice state. "but I wouldn't want to live there" LOL, too many people who wear those funny looking triangle orange hats with holes in them LOL. Sorry, could not resist throwing that in.

H washed dishes last night. For some of you, this might not seem like much. For me it is a major big deal. I work full time at night, go to school part time during the day. I don't have much time to spend keeping the house clean. I do my best, but I figure, he can help.

Coming home at midnight and finding the dishes washed, the counter cleaned was a huge deposit in my Love Bank. (he missed the stove and table, but who was noticing, not I, okay I did, but I'm not saying anything)

Nice for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You two are going well. I'm sure it is the normal ebb and flow of marriage, with the added stress of your being so busy. I have a good feeling that by the time you finish your studies, and your financial situation and availability improves, things will work out well between you two.

- relate

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Hi, Sue!

You'll have fun in Wisconsin. Regarding the cruise, you shouldn't put those things off waiting for something in the future. Go have fun now, who cares if you are in shape or not -- you don't have to prance around the ship in a string bikini (in reality only supermodels and those under 22 should be wearing them anyway).

Glad your H did the dishes! Anything helps, right.

Keep counting down the days till May -- it really isn't all that far away.

FHO

More good news about me. Had another Nursing test. (This is the class where I failed the first test.) I passed the second test. The two tests combined brought my total score to just above passing - (I need a hahooooooo icon).

H took me and the kids out to dinner (sort of dinner) last night. Normally I don't agree to taking the kids to sports bars, but this one typically has families in it. H wanted to watch the ball game. There I am, studying while him and the boys were watching the game. D was with grandma. Normally, he goes alone, or so he says he is alone.

I hope this is not wishful thinking, but his attitude seems different. I'm wondering if it is over with them? I will know, when and if I decide to go snooping. Can't snoop right now. Don't want it to interfer with school

Relate and FHO - thanks I hope you guys are right