Strongly suspect - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I strongly suspect, change that to believe that my H is having an affair. I want it to end, I want to rebuild my marriage. I've tried talking to him, at first I blamed him, now I see I have played a role in his unhappiness which made have pushed him in that direction. How do I get him back emotionally, truly and lovingly. What I did, I'm very busy, sometimes tired, I would reject him often, not because I didn't want to, but because I don't have the energy. He also says I'm hard to talk to. I never thougth I wasHere is some history on us. We have been together for about 10 years. The early years of dating, we split a couple of times. The last 5 years we have been together, with no breakups. 7 years ago, I found out he was seeing someone else, just before we were supposed to get married. We split up. Approx. 6 months later, we started to get back together, however, we never discussed his cheating, nor did I truly forgive him. I recently realized I was full of distrust, anger from the past cheating that I think it affected my mood towards him. I was angry alot, even my kids said I was angry. All through our marriage, I wondered why he married me, was it because he missed our kids (at that time we had 2 chilren prior to our marriage, we have since added one more), was it the child support he was paying me, or was it because he wanted marry me because he loved me. My guard was up, or so I thought because I was afraid of getting hurt again. I'm sure he picked up on it, even though I tried to hide it. So, I've always been suspicious of motives, and if he would be faithful and true to me. Within the last month, I startd getting snoopy and now I am sure he has been having an affair again. I don't want a divorce, I want my marriage to work and the affair to end. I found out that I love him and no matter how much I thought my guard was up to protect myself, it didn't work. It hurts the second time around. So, this is why I think I drove him to it this time. I have not confronted him about my suscpisions. I did ask him if he was unhappy and wanted a divorce, he said he didn't want a divorce, but he did not say if he was happy. When I realized that I was angry from the past, and that this was probably what is hurting my marriage, it has helped improve my mood,and the last couple of weeks have been better between us. He does not trust this will last. He told me so. He thinks I will go back to my old angry mood. So, at this point, what do I do, do I tell him what I suspect, do I keep quiet and hope it will end. Do I tell him why I behaved as I did in the past and I want to work on building a better marriage. I am very confused at this time.

Hi Sue,Welcome to MBs. Sorry to have to meet you here, but this is the place to be in our situations. I am fairly new here as well, but wanted to respond to you. Even tho you (and I as well) rejected our husbands for whatever reasons whenever, there is
never justification for an affair. We can realize and take responsibility for our part in the unhappiness in the relationship-unmet emotional needs-but the spouse's choice to have an A is not our fault. It is their choice.
My husband could have opted to talk to me about his dissatisfaction, talked to a pastor or a counselor. He could have made us an appt. for counsel. But he decided to take the feel good-ego-building choice. I have been hurting all these years as well. I did not seek solace in the arms of another man. There is a thread in Notable Posts and Threads I believe called 50 Indicators Your Spouse Is Having An Affair. That would be a good read for you to help clarify things in your mind. There are also a number of other great reads there.
I will check back later in the day when I can-just wanted to say hello and hang in there. More seasoned veterans will respond to you with more wise counsel. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Sue:I am so sorry about your pain...But I agree you cannot blame yourself wholly for the affair. Ok, the first thing I see that contributes, is, it doesnt seem like you and your hubby really talk honestly about your feelings. Even now, you have not put all your cards on the table and he his so that things could be discussed.Communication is the key to resolving or at least coming to an agreement with him about where you can go from here.I think it is great that you were able to look at yourself and see that you may have not been as emotionally available as you feel you should have been.I don't however, think you can blame yourself for how he choose to conduct himself in your marriage. It sounds like he didn't communicate his feelings either.

At this time I'm afraid to confront him. Last year I went back to school, we have 3 children ages 8 and under. Because of school I have to work evenings, so he takes care of them. If I was to confront him now and he left, I would have to quit school. When I am done with school, I could afford to support my children without him. (His job can be seasonal, I don't want to have to rely on child support to support the children)My own job is not secure with the way technology is contstantly changing. I didn't mean to make it sound like I totally blame myself. I was not happy with how he would disappear for hours at a time, day after day, leaving me home with the kids. Not once during that time period did I look for someone else (I thought about it, however, I am married and I take my vows seriously). For quite some time now, I've been somewhat suspicious. I believe this started before I went back to school. I don't think my going to school started it. When I really started to believe that my suspcisions were correct (I found his cell phone bill, which he hides, he calls her daily. Weekends he disappears for 3-4 hours with no explanation), my first reaction was to call an attorney. I then calmed down. It our marriage is salvagable I want to. That is only if he can get rid of her and not do it again. The thought of a divorce pains me, so does thinking of him wiht someone else. I wish I knew what to do to make my marriage stronger.

Hi Sue- I am glad you found this place!I wish I had found it sooner when I finally found out for sure my H was having an affair last year. I would highly recommend you get the book Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley. It tells all about the usual sequence of events as an affair unfolds and the likely outcomes of them. Also in the second half of the book he talks about specifically how to restore your marriage. So even if you dont choose to confront your H right now the back part of the book could be really helpful to you. I too suspected something might be going on because of his cell phone and his being gone alot on wkends. In my case my H was even so bold as to go to early church with me and our 3 kids then drop me and the kids off at home- said he was going to the gym and went over to OW's condo every Sunday.Needless to say it was quite a shock to me when I discovered that had been going on! I confronted my H directly and he lied the first time I did that. A few wks later I tried again- it was valentines day and he had bought me nothing and was distant and critical towards me. I insisted he tell me the truth at that point- he finally did confess but said our marriage was hopeless and that he was leaving me for OW. He did move out for awhile and filed for D but eventually changed his mind due to my following Harley's plans in that book I told you about. So read it NOW and be prepared! I have read statistics show that if you suspect your H is having an A, there is an 85% chance that you are correct. So be ready for that answer when you decide to confront. But be assured that it doesnt necessarily mean the end of your marriage. Take care- lifeismessy

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I am so glad I found MB. The few replies I have had have been very helpful. It does not make it easier. I did read some of Dr. Harley's info on the Web. I started being more attentive to my H. I also, in my mind have stopped placing all the blame on him, which in turn has changed my attitude in the home. My H, does not think it will last, however, he is somewhat willing to do things together. He even suggested I learn to play golf, and if I liked it, we could golf together. I will get the book and probably the other books too. Since I really belive that he is having an affair, (and lets say for the sake of argument that this is not a sexual affair, but he is spending time with her, that is time away from the family), when it does come out in the open, I need to be ready to deal with it. I am thinking about telling him about my feelings about why I was the way I was with him with regards to the past A. I realize that for my part, my lack of honesty and fear of discussing the incident, caused myself to be full of negative feelings. When so called well-doers questioned why I married him, I had a hard time admitting I loved him. I was afraid they would think I was a patsy. So I put on an act that he could not hurt me again, my guard it up. I'm ready for it this time. You are never ready for it. It hurts worse this time than last time. I wish I would have found Dr. Harley back in 1995, when the first occurance happened. Maybe I would not be in this position now. I know he his not happy with me because of wieght gain. (I'm 60 pounds heavier than when we first met, I'm not happy about it either. Have been working at losing it. For myself first, and him second) I want him to be proud to be seen with me. I sometimes wonder if he is embarrased to be seen with me. There are those who think that it is shallow to let that affect a marriage, when you think about it, what first attracted you to your mate, most of the time is is physical, so it will still matter later on.One thing I wonder about is, did this A ever end, or did he marry me, and continue the A. Well, maybe I will find out sometime. H met OW from a mutual friend. Initially he was supposed to be introducing OW to a friend of his. I heard from mutual friend that OW likes to go after attached men. Once she has them, she loses interest. Boy, I didn't mean to be so wordy. I guess, I just started to ramble. I will say, this site helps. My well meaning friends keep telling me to dump the "loser". But they are not in the marriage, they don't have children who will be hurt by this. I value my marriage, and before I can file for the big "D", I need to know that all has been tried and that it is beyond repair. I guess we are going to tear down a deck this weekend, go fishing, and to the local amusment park. So I suppose all is not lost. The only thing is, he does find time to call her. Once, I looked out our front window, he was going to shut the car windows, it was supposed to rain. What do I see, but him on his cell phone. This message board is very helpful. If anything, you can talk about the problem with those who understand. Thanks

I'm replying to myself. In my last entry, I was considering opening up to my H about my feelings from the last A. I tell myself that the honesty cannot be a bad thing, however, it scare me that he might tell me about the current A, that I'm sure is going on. I'm really afraid that he will tell me he loves her and wants to be with her. Common sence tells me that I'm wrong and look at the plans we are making. We talk, mostly he talks about the future, and buying a cabin up north for weekend getaways for the family, a boat for fishing for us and the kids, he is trying to convice me to buy 4-wheelers. A person contiplating leaving does not discuss these things do they. I'm not sure if i should open up yet or if I should wait. Any advice would be welcome. - Thanks

How I do not like this rollercoaster ride. One day, I am on top of the world, the next I'm a scared kitten, wanting to hide from the world. I have been trying to get H to make some plans for us to spend together this weekend. Just him and I, he hestitates. One of his responses was, lets see if something better comes up. Why do I want to try??? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] . I thought maybe we could talk, I could tell him what I discovered about why I have been angry with him, and now, I'm not sure if that is the correct thing to do. Anyone have any ideas?

Sue,Your M didn't get in this condition overnight, so don't bet overanxious to fix everything all at once. Get some books like Love Busters, Surviving An Affair and start reading. Knowledge will help to change your approach in your M. Since your previous approach isn't working well, then it makes sense to "go back to school" so to speak. I think you have a taste of the MB principles from reading the site, but you need to learn them at a deeper level.The idea of creating a home environment where you are depositing Love Units in the account your H has for you is what you need to be doing right now. There will be time to deal with the specific issues of your feelings so don't rush it. If you start expressing your feelings in a love busting way, then it will be counter productive. I'm in a similar situation, my W is the WS and I am currently working on myself mostly. I did get her to agree to a counseling session by herself with Steve Harley, so it is working and I think she is seeing the changes in me. The hardest part is being patient.Best Wishes

Thanks for your advice. I will try to be patient. I just started reading the Surviving an affair, I also have Fall in love, stay in love, (I think) and I have another book coming, I don't recall the title, the bookstore thought it might be helpful. I figure I might need some weekend reading material. I've started an exercise program, it makes me feel better after I'm done. I also walk alot. Right now I will have to be happy with him agreeing to doing things as a family, at least then we are having some time together. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

I have Surviving An Affair, His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters, and Give and Take. I would definitely get His Needs Her Needs on order if you don't have it already. There is a bit of repetition from one book to the next, but I get something out of each of them making it worth the purchase.Make your time with him as a family as pleasant as possible without Love Busting, and hopefully they become more frequent over time.I'm happy to see you are taking positive steps. You are taking action and it will pay off!Best Wishes

Hi again Sue- I wanted to recommend another book to you- its called Adultery- Facing the Facts. You can buy a like new copy used off of Amazon or Ebay- that's where I bought one. It written by a private investigator about key indicators that your spouse is having an affair and how to go about proving it if you decide to divorce. I thought this book might help you figure out things for sure. I wish I had read it before I confronted my H last year.It has very specific things to look for in a wandering spouse. take care- lifeismessy

Well, I thought things were better, I took a vacation day yesterday, he was home all evening. This morning we spent almost the whole day together. Around 3 he left to get his saw from his mothers, he has not come home yet, it is almost 8. Why does he think I believe that he is not doing anything. How long does it take to get a saw from his mothers. She lives 2 miles away.This is what I hate the most. He appears that it is getting better. I found out he used to complain to his brother about all the fighting we used to do. He doesn't complain anymore. Does that mean it is because he found someone else who makes him happy, or is it because we don't fight much anymore???Can you implement Plan A, without confronting him about the suspected Affair?

Some days I want to scream, other days I want to dance. Today I want to scream. Had to vent
Gotta go to soccer practice

Hi,
So far today is a good day. Considering last night on my way home my car died. I was not too far from home. I was able to start it again and make it home. H is going to get brother to look at it and see if he can fix it. There are times I want to get it over with and confront him with my suscpicions. If I do that, I'm sure he would leave. I don't want him to leave. Does any of the M in MB ever really recover? I've read some of the other posts and it seems like some do, some don't and some keep trying, and the WS is continuing to be a WS. I know what I want, will I get what I want?At this time, I keep being nice to him, trying to fill the bank again. I'm going to take golf lessons. He golfs, I don't. He sort of suggested it. He commented then we could golf together. I guess he is trying to spend time with me, but that does not explain why he has to call her all the time. I've seen the cell phone bill, he calls her more than she calls him. There have been a couple of times when I took unexpected vacation time, the phone rang, Caller ID said "unknown caller". I received an immediate hang up. Interesting!!!!!Anyway, I have errands to run. I guess my situation does not seem as bad as others I have read. Maybe he is coming around and it is a matter of time before he tells her it is over.

Hey, Sue!Hang in there. Yes, some M do recover. My H and I are currently in recover and have been since March. He posts here also, so perhaps sometime he will post to you (Love_Her_Madly). You absolutely have to be patient. That virtue is your best friend right now. It is very, very hard not to want things to get better right away. But they are not going to get better right away.Yes, you can Plan A without confronting your H about the A. You have already asked him about it and he has denied it. However, you know the truth. So start Plan Aing. Plan A is really about you -- making yourself a better person. Learning how not to LBst will make you a much better person and will improve all of your relationships. Learning to meet your partner's ENs in the way he wants them met will also make you a better person. By the way, if you haven't completed the EN questionaire, do so ASAP -- you should complete the questionaire as if you were your H (if you cannot get him to complete it).It is very common to be on a rollercoaster. Just be prepared for it and when you are on the down cycle, come here and vent. Your H is in the fog and will not make and sense. He brain has been kidnapped by aliens and they have replaced it with this weird alien brain. Think about it this way, it might help. At some point, when the A dies and your H sees the changes in you, your true H should return.As I said before, hang in there. It is a long row to hoe, but it is worth it.FHO

FHO,
Thank you - Somedays I get so scared that he will leave. Other days I want him out. Most days I'm scared he will leave. I think I spent most of our M thinking he was going to walk out, he did it once before. I'm sure that is why my guard was up during our M. Which made me an angry person to be around. I was always yelling at someone. I've been trying to work on me. I really want to yell at him. I know that would be a very bad thing so I don't. Gotta go to work.
SoM

Hi Sue --You might want to consider Anti-depressants. They can even out your mood swings, and make you feel more in control of yourself.If you feel stronger in this way, it may help you with your Plan A. Think about yourself, and the changes you want to make. It sounds like you have already identified your H's lovebusters, so continue to avoid those!Focus on yourself and your children.

Sue,I agree with Lexxy about the anti-depressants -- they helped me. They are not a miracle or anything, just help even out the rollercoaster. Keep up your plan A. Consider IC and MC, if your H will go. Really work on meeting his ENs. Most men have a very high need for RC. They doing things together -- just the two of you. Think back to when you were dating -- what did you do then -- try some of those. My H and I got a Play Station and we love playing it together. Also, board games have been really fun. Plan some fun things for just the two of you.Also start practicing how to express your feelings without LBing. You can ask here how to phrase something -- there is some great advice waiting here. Plan A does not mean you cannot express your feelings. You just need to do so without LBing. It sounds like you have issues with supressed anger. If you cannot have a conversation with your H about your feelings without LBing, perhaps you can write your feelings out. Remember that you should express things in terms of I. I am concerned . . . I feel . . . It makes me uncomfortable when . . . (not you make me feel, etc.) Try drafting something and posting here for feedback. Hang in there -- keep up the good work.FHO

Maybe I should try the anti-D's, I have never been one for taking pills, so I resist anything that is not an antibiotic, or allergy time med. However, anything that can help me cope is better than nothing. I try not to cry, and when I do, I try to be alone, there have been times in bed, I cry at night. I didn't know he was awake, he has commented on them recently, he did not acknowledge them at the time. I have been trying to find things for us to do together, and he resists most of my suggestions. He did suggest if I knew how to golf we could golf together (here is a ray of sunshine), so I checked into lessons (I can't ask him, I want my M to work, not end [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) I told him I found lessons and the cost, he said sign up. He plays this internet game alot (Everquest, and yes I have heard bad things about it) we have two computers at home, so I have started playing it so we can play together. The kids have a playstation, we could play that to once in awhile. Thanks for all the great suggestions and I will feel you guys out before I say some things to him. Want to avoid the LB's.Working opposite shifts does not help, at this time, I cannot change. I need to finish school. But then again, when we did work the same shift, he was gone more than he was home [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] . He even commented how if I was home in the evenings he could do more of what he wanted, which in the past brought on fightsThanks-

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Just had to say, so far I'm having a good day. I started out not having a good day. H has called me twice at work. Normally he does not call at all. I usually have to call. We only talked about our kids soccer games tomorrow. Normally he does not do that. (I hope this is the beginning of a better life with H)

I changed me to be Sue with Hope from Sue of Minnesota. I like it better. He got up, we had a late breakfast, left around noon to buy a bat for softball, and didn't return until 5:30, he has just enough time to make it to ball. Now, how long does it take to buy a bat, especially when you already know what one you want. I can't believe he thinks I don't question it.

My H has started wearing his Wedding ring. Not the ring we wore when we got married, we could not afford much then. A couple of years back he bought himself a new ring, one he liked more. I was okay with that. When we first bought the rings, we decided that we will get nicer ones later on. The difference between him and I is, I will always wear my ring, and add to it. Makes sense, not too many guys wear multiple rings like women do. This is the most he has wore his ring since we have been married. Wearing the ring to me symbolizes that he is committed to the marriage. Or at least is making more of an effort. All I have been is nicer to him. Is that what makes the difference. I got rid of the anger from his past A. Even my kids have commented that that I'm nicer. Boy, how we can delude ourselves about our own attitude. I hope I'm not putting too much into this. He makes sure I know that he is wearing it.

So far things have been going well. I keep waiting and wondering when will it happen? When will he slip up? It is bound to happen sooner or later. I think what helps is I don't check up on him as often as I used to. It would bring me down to see that he called her. If and when I want, I know how to get access to that information. Why bring me down, especially when I need to stay in a good mood. Don't want to risk those LB's. I'm not trying to live in denial. Checking up on him does little good for the self esteem. Besides, I'm taking a summer class, and If I let this eat at me, I will not do well in the class.Doing Plan A, seems to be helping the situation. At least we are not fighting. The question remains, does he feel like he is having the best of both worlds?

SWH,I like that name better -- originally my name on the site was Hopeless One, but as things started to work out I changed it.One important thing to realize is that you cannot control your H's actions -- you can only control yourself. That is what Plan A is all about -- you learning to be a better person; for yourself, for your M, for your children, for your family, for all. Not LBing will help all of your Rs. Really, what is the point of LBing -- you hurt someone else or force your ideas on them, but in the long run it is detrimental to all Rs. I think it is a good idea not to keep checking up on your H. If the info you get is too painful, then don't keep checking up. Keep up your Plan A. At some point you will want to check progress -- is he still communicating with her, does he just want the best of both worlds (cake-eater), etc. Then you might need to make some decisions. But for now, continue your Plan A. Define your goals for your Plan A (these are improvements you are making for yourself). I know you are going to school (I am currently in law school myself) and trying to lose weight -- great goals. What else? I think the golf lessons are great -- after you have had a few why don't you suggest that you and your H play a round.It sounds like you are depositing LB$ in your H's account. He is probably torn between you and the OW. Keep up the good work. You are going to make him start wondering and thinking. That will help bring him out of the fog -- check out other posts for the fog. Keep up the good work.FHO

Sue, sorry to barge in on your thread but I was happy to see FHO posting to you as she has been incredibly helpful to me! Bless her!FHO, if you have time would you take a look at the thread by Trying to see if you have anything to comfort her? She is also looking for help for her H! Thanks, CSue

Hi FHO and CSUE,Thanks.FHO good luck in Law School, that is a heavy load. Currently I work with Attorneys, some have done career changes to become Lawyers and have talked about how much work it is, to get there. And they are happy with their decision.I was not checking up on my H. I was looking into our bank statement. The balance didn't look right. I saw he got gas at a gas station that is out of the way from home, work, ball, so I asked him why he had to get gas their. (gas station is located approx 1 block from OW home, yes I know where she lives. This is because it is the same person he had the A with before). He claimed that he was on his way to ball and had to pull off for gas. He says there is not other station along the way. Unless memory fails me, there is one about 3 miles up the road from the exit he took to get to this one. He passed 4 gas stations to get to this one. (I didn't comment on this, since I could not recall if there were gas stations before this one. I told a friend about it, and she has to go that route to get home and she told me how many their are. I realize that Plan A is about improving me, and he will have contact for awhile, why do they think we buy these lame excuses. Where do they come up with these lame excuses. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. I guess laugh, it is better for you. Why do they talk about a future with you, and the whole time they are cheating. I just don't get it.
Is it because they do really love you and are confused as you said. I'll have to check out some of the Fog threads. Thanks

Sue, my H and I are in recovery; and it seems to be going well. The trust issue is so big. I don't trust him yet. Partly because he was able to have the A right under my nose and I never suspected.There were a few unexplained things that occurred during the A that make sense to me now; but for the most part it is surreal because he acts the same way today that he did 4 years ago and forward.I think you are wise to stay alert to the possibilities based on what you said; however plan A activities is the smart way to go. You don't want to drive him away from you while coming out of the fog. Keep us posted on how you are doing! CSue

SWH,All I can say is FOG, FOG, FOG! Think of it like their brain has temporarily been taken over by aliens (lost of people here talk about the aliens). They don't make any sense. The reason that he makes plans about the future and lies to you is because he still loves you and doesn't want to spoil your R. He is very confused right now and doesn't know what he is doing. In a way he is trapped. Even if he does want to get out of the R with the OW, he is trapped if she threatens to go to you with the info.Patience is really important right now. Do a good Plan A. Work on the things that you have done to contribute to the problems in your M. I did that and I do not regret it for a minute -- even if things had not worked out with my H, I would not regret it. I am a better person -- I have more insight into me. I have more insight into others feelings. I am more considerate of others (no LBing). You have said that your children have commented on the changes in you. That is great -- see you have already improved yourself and you will have a better R with your children for it.Your H is probably hurting right now. WSs are confused and in the end hurt themselves far more than they ever hurt their spouses. I know it doesn't make sense, but it is the truth. My H posted on the recovery board a thread about forgiving oneself. He is still struggling with this and feels the guilt every day. Hang in there. Take it one day at a time (or one minute if necessary). Post here when you are frustrated. It really helps. Also regarding the lies the WS uses to cover up, it really is pathetic. The excuses are so lame and sometimes it used to make me really mad that my H thought I was dumb enough to believe them. But, remember the fog -- the WS just says anything that enters their head. Later they probably don't even remember what they said.FHO

Thanks for the encouragment. I feel as if I should be down and blue, but I'm not. In general I am happy. Yes, the situation bothers me, but I'm not obsessed with it, at least not like I was in the beginning. Is this the effect Plan A has on the person who is practicing it? Initially I was very upset and depressed, now I'm doing the best I can with Plan A, working on getting back into shape, trying to spend time with my children and concentrating on school. I worked out a schedule so that I will be able to study while H is at work and the weekends will be relatively free, with the exception of some housework and light study. Regardless of what happens with my M, I hope to come out of this situation a better person. The last thing I want is for my chilren to go down this same road. Hopefully I can learn some things to pass on to them.

Don't ever think HIS affair is your fault!!! It Is HIS fault!I wish that husbands could be man enough to talk about their problems instead of finding some tramp to comfort them! I am learning that it was not my fault that my husband cheated on me... it was HIS choice! Don't beat yourself up about it... ask him to seek counseling! That's what I did. (and he was willing to do whatever I asked to make things work!)

CSUE forgot to say, you are not barging. All advice, comments are welcome.Here is someting I've been pondering. I think he is testing the waters for my reactions. More than once he claims he hardly talks to her. (this is when I don't ask). I stopped checking the cell phone bills, but when I did, he called her every day, 3-4 times per day. Probably still is. When I was checking our bank statement, I saw a charge for a resuraunt, (visa bank cards show up on bank statement) the total indictated more than one person. So I asked him, at first he tried saying he thought it was when he was with his brother, I don't recall my exact response, but he knew I didn't believe him. When I got home, he said that he had to get some papers from her, and mentioned to her he was hungry, however, he did not have to pay for her meal. Lets say, he wants to end it with OW, and she has threatened to tell me, so he is afraid that she will contact me. Could he be testing my reactions? If he would come clean, we could move forward as a couple on our M. So, lets say he does come forward with confessing of the A, do I tell him I've suspected for awhile, if so, will he take this as the green light that, Hey, since she didn't confront it must be okay and I can do it again? Do I act surprised?, Do we discuss it rationally? I still remember the when I found out about the first A. I'm sure the look on my face when he came home must have been devestating. There was nothing rational about my behavior then. I don't know how to react that will not be a LB. It is easy to not LB, when you are burying it under the rug and have accepted that until the right time this is the way it must be. I know I will want counseling, especially for him. Once, about a year ago, during an argument, he suggested MC, I was willing, and then he backed out. I know I will have to insist at that time,he must have NC with her. I've wondered if there is a baby involved from prior A, and had not told me. (The thought has crossed my mind, I'll deal with this if it is a reality, no point in creating problems that may not exist).Weekend is coming, if there is no rain, we have my company picnic to go to this weekend. At least for a few hours I will know where he is.

Yesterday was a little tough for me. We went to my company picnic, (I had a headache that would not go away). Right after we get home, he says he needs to go for a drive, 5 hours later he returns. Went to a movie alone (was he alone?, probably not). I make suggestions that him and I should go out, he ignores me or he makes other plans. How am I supposed to have time with him when he avoids it. I wonder is it because I've gained 60 pounds and he is embarrased to be seen with me? I've signed up for golf lessons at his suggestion so we will have an RC we can do to gether. I have been dieting and exercising (I feel good afterwards) I've dropped 1 size, and that size is starting to feel looser, so soon I will be down another size. We used to go to his union christmas party every year, we have not gone to the last 3. The first one in the last 3 makes sense, it was close to the due date of of last child, (you have to send in your payment and reservation) who knew if we would have been able to go. The second one he was working out of town, except we both agreed to his working out of town, for a short time, he stayed away longer than agreed upon, the last one, I don't know why.I think I will take the dog for a walk before the kids get up. Neighbor kids spent the night, waffles in the toaster will be quick and easy to fix and they all love them. Get the laundry done, study for tuesdays test, and if I'm lucky he will stay home today. We have been talking about buying bikes and going bike riding with the kids, maybe will can do that today

Today I'm a little down. Yesterday was okay, he suggested we buy bikes so we can take the kids bike riding and make a day of it on some trail. Sounds good. He is willing to keep doing family things, which is okay, I love being with my kids, however, anytime I suggest we do something together, him and I, he hesitates, or makes other plans. Example, he plays Everquest, I've played it, it is okay, except he knows I have been trying to get him to agree to going out with me, so he sets up a months worth of guild activiteis for Saturday nights, the night I'm home where we could get a sitter and go out. A friend thinks his recent interest in the house and family is to through me off on his A. She thinks he might be aware that I might know or suspect. Alot of times, when he disappears, he turns his cell phone off. After all, who wants the wife calling while out with the girlfriend. (mood buster huh).Just a little down today about this. Oh well, if it doesn't rain the kids have a soccer game, will take my lunch hour and go watch. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />

I hope I'm making progress in my M. I brought up the subject again of H and I going out, just the two of us, he of course said he was not going out at Midnight (the time I get home from work). I reminded him that there is Saturday's. He agreed to it, so this is more progress than I have made. (He also wants to buy a 4-wheeler, is he trying to butter me up so I will agree). I don't think I have been doing any LB's as much as I want to shake him some days, or yell and scream WHY!!!!, or "Why do you have to call her every day" What does she do for you that I don't do" "What makes her so special that you would risk your M over her" Okay, done venting. I feel better. Somedays you gotta ventSomedays I get down over it, but not like when I initially found out. Mostly I want to know why, why why. I try to keep busy so I don't have to think about it.

I always thought when I got married I would have this wonderfull happy life. My parents had a good marriage, a few arguments, but for the most part good. They loved each other dearly, my father was so devoted to my mom. That is what I want. Why can't I have it too. When we first met, of course you have the typical infatuation when all is bliss. After I 1st son was born, he was so good and thoughtful. A psycho ex girlfriend of his kept following him, even after we had the baby. She finally quit, he was home all the time, considerate, thoughtful, did spend too much, brought small thoughtful gifts, told me he loved me. After our second son was born, he leaves me, found out he had a girlfriend. Devestated me, I wanted so bad for it to work out. I thought we did. Now that I look back, I see he changed, he is not the same thoughtful person he was. The more we make, the more he wants and the less I get. He has all these expectations out of me, that I should be doing to make him happy, and I get very little out of him. When I say anything, I'm a nag, a b****, I know why he says those things, it is because he cannot have his way, and I'm calling him on the carpet for his behavior. I guess I'm very down. Need to vent. I started another thread under emotions. I was sort of scaring myself. I didn't like what I was thinking.

Sue-I'm new here but what you said rang so true with me I have to reply! I've suspected for about a month that my H is having A with former co-worker. Looking back I feel so stupid-this has to have been going on for at least 6-8 months, probably longer. And like you said, when we got married I thought we would have this beautiful life, best friends raising perfect children. Well, our daughters are beautiful but my "best friend" never talks to me, never touches me, didn't even buy me a birthday card. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> Yet looking at cell phone records, he spends lots of time talking to "someone"-he checks his voicemail as soon as he leaves home or work, then calls her and talks the whole commute.
I have not confronted him-I think I'll just work on a Plan A, since I know he must be deeply fogged. It is hard, tho, since I feel so hurt, angry, and resentful.

Shaz - plan A is really hard, especially when you know that something is going and, and you want the to confess, so you can go foward with either working it out(which is the route I want to go) or filing for DV (yuck) but at least you are not in limbo. Today I thought things would have been better, he took our oldest with him to look at some 4 wheelers his boss is selling. He came home early afternoon, I thought, yeah for a change, he is going to stay home, well, guess not, he leaves for about 3 hours and I have no idea where. Says he was looking at trailers. I'd believe him except this happens every Saturday and Sunday. I cannot recall one weekend where he has been home the whole time or where either I or one of the kids have been with him.This is not easy, but I hang in there. Somedays it is really easy for me, and others I just want to cry. Weekends are the worst

I hate weekends. H had a good father's day. I put alot of effort into this one. The past ones, I didn't do so much, I figured why, he never did much for me. It helped for me to make it special was the this past mothers day he actually did something nice for me. Weekened are particularily tough. This is when he has his 3-5 hour disappearing act. Surprisingly, Sunday he was home more than not, except he decided he had to go to the drugstore which is 2 blocks away. It took him approx 45 min to buy one item. I'm sure he used this time to get away and make his phone call. Weekdays are easier, he has to be home for the kids. When he does play ball, he cannot stay out too late. Non of the sitters will stand for it. He does not want to lose any of the sitters, so he comes right home after ball. (I wish I meant as much to him as the babysitters, but then again he needs them more than he needs me).It used to be I could not wait for the weekends, time home with the family, now I dread the weekends and love the weekdays.

Hey There! First of all trust your intuition. Most likely if you have those feelings - it is happening. Unfortunately, you can't make your WS confess. Stay focused on something and try not to let it consume you.

Seeking - thanks, I'm getting better at it. Some days are tougher than others. The past couple of weeks for some reason have been really tough. I have to stay focused on the positive. I have 3 wonderful children. I'm on another thought, My H came from a home were cleaning and putting things away took a very low priority. To this day, you cannot find a clean cup in my MIL home. I came from a different environment, you cannot leave the house without your work done. As of late, my H, has been getting down on the older kids for not putting thier stuff away. Last night they trashed the bathroom, he made them clean it up, and told them that they had better have all of their work done by the time he gets home or their will be some very long term groundings put in place. (it included no soccer). I was shocked. He always thought I was too hard on the kids, and that I expected too much. All I expect is that they put their toys away, sometimes with reminding, and that they do their assigned chores when told to. In the past, I would end up doing it, and getting angry at the lack of support I got from him. I suppose this as a step in the right direction, that we are starting to have a meeting of the minds in some areas in child raising. I've been thinking of taking bellydancing lessons. (I need to get in shape and the workout tapes at home get a bit boring). I figure it may be a fun way to get a cardiovascular workout. Beside, it will get me out of the house for some much needed time to myself.(Something I rarely get).

Sue - you just keep hanging in there! In spite of everything that I have gone through I feel stronger and more confident in myself now! Somedays it feels like I only have the ground beneath my feet but thats a good start! Sadly, I have realized that I can't depend on my H but I can depend on me and in God to get me through this crap. Love yourself and your kiddos (it sounds like you are doing great!) and remember that sometimes you take things one minute at a time. I started to see that just because I am in this horrible situation that I don't have to dwell in it - I can get on with my life and make me happy and by doing that I am making everyone else better too!
Now you get out there and take up belly dancing or whatever strikes you - you deserve to be good to you. Be happy and stay strong. In your weak times come here and you will find blessings beyond measure.
Sorry to sound like a guru but I have found joy that I lost and I can't help it!

Thanks - I have found that coming here during my weak times helps. It also helps to read others posts. Input on some helps to think of others situations instead of my own. I've only recently started posting here. My unhappiness has been going on since about a year after we were married. He forgot our first anniversary. And then because we didn't have $$ to go out, he rationalized his going to play hockey, instead of staying home with me. (I was on maternity leave, we just had our 3rd child). It has been one thing after the other with emotional neglect, leaving me home night after night. Ski trips wiht his brother, weekend trips to vegas, weekend softball tournaments up north, and I stayed home night after night with the kids. I hurt my back when the baby was 6 months old. He decided to go out of state to work, instead of staying to help me with the kids.(claimed we needed the extra $$, overtime and higher union pay scale). It was supposed to be for 3 months, he was gone 9 months. My sister and neice came over all the time to help me out. That was when I decided to go back to school for a better job. I will be done in 1 year. During one of my weakest moments, just recently I started a thread under emotions. I was not sure if what I was feeling was normal. In the past I would fantasize about a R with someone else, it was my dream R. This other person did not have a name or a face. Recently I substitued the unknown person with a male friend/kind of coworker. We have know each other for about 20 years. More of an acquaintence situation. Worked together during high school/college years. We each went our separate ways. 3 years ago, we ran into each other at my current employment. Occasionally we would get together in the company cafeteria for lunch. About 3 times per year. It scared me that I was actually thinking of him in more than just a "friend" terms. I needed to know if this was normal. I guessed it was because of the longing for what I dont' have right now. At this point with my being so vulnerable, I have to cease contact with him. I don't need to go down the other road. I've never thought about him in that way before. He was always just a nice guy. I always pull myself back to reality, I dont' want to hurt my kids. I also don't want to hurt my H. Time to let go of the "white picket fence and cottage dream" and get with reality of living in the glass house. Maybe I can have my "white picket fence" someday.

Hi,
just chatting, H told me recently that she OW, has cancer. I asked what kind, "female kind" I guess, she had surgery and it is back. I find it strange that he could not answer questions such as "is there hope for a good prognosis" As much as I want her out of his life, I don't wish death upon her. He does not know what her treatment is, or how long she has had it. He claims he hardly talks to her. (yeah right, which is why he calls her everyday, okay, I stopped checking his cell phone, so I don't know if he contiunes to call everyday. I have better things to do wiht my time then to check on him everyday). However, most people when told that someone has a serious illness asks questions regarding possible recovery and treatment. So, I do not believe he does not know. He can live in his own delusional world. In the mean time I am going to keep doing as I am, and working an the new and improved me. Because I like me alot and I worth it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

Sue w/ Hope
Glad to hear that you stopped checking his cell phone. I too stopped snooping and now I feel a peace that passes all understanding. I am the biggest snooper in the world. I just let it go and now I feel great. I got tired of getting disappointed by the person that was supposed to have my best interests at heart. Now if he goes to her, good riddance. I know that my H will never be happy with this woman. She is only a symptom of his problem and luckily I was able to tell her just that. I think it stung! I hope so.
I am glad that you have such a great attitude because that is what will see you through this time. YOU ARE A LITTLE ROCK STAR! LOL
Keep it up!

Hi Seeking,
It is so much better this way. I still have my moments, mostly I get mad and not sad. (I'm not sure if this is good or not, when I was depressed I lost 10 pounds, I have 50 more to go, and since the depression part went away, I have not lost any LOL). I get mad because of the disrespect, I'm not sure If I'm mad at him or myself for allowing this to continue. I try to focus on other things. I figure, I will work on my M, at the same time I will work on me, because if M does not work out, I am still stuck with me and so are the kids, so we want to like me alot. I need to get H to fix up house in the next year. Roof needs replacing, door needs to be installed, garage roof is really bad [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Anyway, gotta go. Kids are going up north with grandma, fishing and all that stuff. I need to make sure they have all their stuff packed and see if I need to run to the store in the morning. I wish I could go. Gotta study for a test.

H has been different. Last night when I got home from work, (didn't mean to, but I woke him up.) We talked alittle bit about when I am done with school In the past, whenever I commented about I have a year left, he would groan. He mad the comment and asked what shift I will look to work. I told him I'm going to try for first, which I don't know if I will be able to find one, I also told him that to get first shift, I may have to do a combination 1st/2nd shift, which he though stunk, (it does, but it beats 2nd shift only) He actually agreed. I don't recall what he said, but I got the impression that he wants me on 1st so I will be around in the evenings. In the past when I commented on it, he said he liked us on opposit shifts, this way, we didn't have to see much of each other. (I wonder, was I that hard to live with?) Anyway, I am hoping that this is a positive sign in my M, and not him looking forward to being able to get out of the house in the evenings when I am finished with school and leaving me home at nights again with the kids. (time will tell, I don't have a crystal ball)

I keep thinking I should start a new thread under PlanA, I don;t know what i would call it. So for now, I will stay here.I think Plan A is working. Kids went up north for the weekend with Grandma. It gave us a mini vacation at home. Time alone, no distractions, no kids. We went out for breakfast, tore down part of a deck, went out for dinner, and spent the evening relaxing at home. Saterday he did not do his usual 3-5 hour disappearing act. Sunday he did go golfing. How long does it take t play an 18 hole course? He was gone for about 4 hours. We went bike riding when he came home. Watching me walk this morning was somewhat comical - I have not ridden a bike in about 20 years so the muscles are discussing a mutiny. The exercise and dieting is working. About 2 or 3 weeks ago I bought some new jeans, old ones were getting big. I bought these a tad tight, want to get some mileage out of them for when I lose more weight. These are fitting like they should have when I bought them. I think the H likes to take me out to dinner now. In the past we would go out to eat (I was a size 8). We would order appetizer, meal. I would eat all of my meal, and what he could not finish of his. Sometimes a dessert would be thrown in. An hour later I would be hungry. Now, I have a few bites and I am stuffed. He gets my leftover steak in his lunch the next day. Anyway, I'm feeling pretty good about myself these days. I'm sure he is still in contact with her. I've decided that Plan A will last about 1 year. When I am finished with school, pass state boards, and find new employment, if things have not changed, I will confront and implement Plan B. I cannot and will not live this way indefinetly. I feel that by the time I am done with school will be more than enough time for Plan to have had a positive effect on me and my M.

Hi Sue,Sorry I haven't checked in recently -- very busy at work and school. You are doing great. Plan A is about you. I am glad to see you making positive changes for yourself. The benefit is they usually have a positive effect on your M. I guess the lesson is to be a little selfish -- work on yourself. It is good for everyone in the end.Just hang in there. Perhaps you should write out your Plan A -- what are you doing (I know some -- losing weight, no LBing, RC, keep going to school). What else? What are your next goals? Don't bite off more than you can chew, but it helps to plan ahead -- gives you something to look forward to.Anyway, you are doing great! I can see some positive changes in your M already.FHO

Hi FHO - goals? I barely have time to think about tomorrow. Every now and then I do give it some thought. I feel better about the way my M is going. I know it will be a while before all contact with her is over, especially since he does not know Iknow. He might suspect, yesterday, before he went golfing, he said see you in 4 hours. I'm sure he still call her everyday. Somethings you just know. Beside, I found a printout of a loan proposal from the financial instituion she works at. He left it out. I asked about it. He does not know I know she works there. (Early PI work). He said he was looking into refinancing the house (I doubt it), but has decided against it. When I finish school, I will tell him what I know, and suspect. Let him know that I need No Contact between him and her. If not, then plan B. It cannot be anyother way. By then I will be ready for Plan B. If things keep going as they are, Plan B will not be neededH keeps bugging me to get a passport. He wants to take me to St. Martins ( I don't know when or how or where the $$ will come from) I sometimes wonder why does he want to take me to St. Martins. I told him I wanted to have time to be in better shape. H did find some amusement this morning in my stiff muscles. He thinks the changes in me can be attributed to his giving me a ring for Mothers day. That is part of it. This was the first mothers day that he gave me something I asked for. Something that had meaning to me. (I started Plan A before mothers day, he didn't trust it. He thougth I would revert to my old crabby self). I think he is still hesitant, but it gets better. You know, you have to be a little selfish. I'm finding that by neglecting my own needs, I was not happy. If I am not happy, how can those around me be happy. The saying goes, "when mamma isn't happy, no one is happy"We do get happiness from those around us, we also have to find happiness within.

Hi Sue-
I haven't been around for a bit but i love to read your posts because our situations seem so similar, but you are a little ahead of me. For instance, I'm encouraged that your Plan A is helping, because I'm still waiting for my WH to notice. Like you, I will not confront and Plan B yet, and if all goes well I hope I will not ever have to. You know, he suddenly comes out of the fog and thinks "oh I have a beautiful home, devoted wife, and perfect children, why would I risk losing it all?" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
On the other hand, that dream may go the way of the white picket fence you mentioned.
The last thing you said about happiness and "momma ain't happy..." really rang true too.
I also am sorry to add that I too sit at home while he is gone for hours, unexplained. Even fathers day, after a somewhat nice day, as soon as we had the kids in bed he vanished for a few hours, without a word. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />
It is like rubbing salt in a wound that as lonely as I am he is running off to "her" all the time.
I like what you said about "even if the M doesn't work out the kids and I will need to like me". This is so true I'm going to write it in my journal to keep me on track!
Keep your chin up, Sue-it sounds like you are on your way.

Sue -- I just wanted to make sure you are OK today... Let me know!-mcnyh

Good news I hope.

H has a timeshare, he put in for some time for his Mom to go on a vacation with our kids. It was approved. He asked me how I felt if we went this weekend, drive them there, we come back and go get them the following weekend. It means some time alone for H and I, plus, he cannot see OW for two weekends in a row. There is nothing stopping him from calling her. He will find a way to do that, but he cannot see her. YIPPPPPIIIII. We will have to take two vehicles for the trip. So on the return trip we will still be in separate vehicles. I'm nervous about my MIL having the kids for a week out of state. Don't get me wrong, she would not run off with them, it just in the past she has been about 4 hours away, and now she will be more like 12 hours away. So if something happened, it would take us longer to get there. I know, nevous nilly. I should enjoy that I will have a week at home with the hubby and no kids. But, that means on the week day evenings or one week, he can get away to see her. Except last night kids were with grandma and he didn't. I called and he was home, he called me many times from home. So maybe A died somewhat. H has been very nice to me lately.

Have to get through another day.

H was taking deck down. Lately he wants me near him when he is doing stuff. I don't know why? I had laundry to do, and bills, and study. He asked if any of it I can do outside. Yeah all of it. I hang the clothes in the summer.

At home he is being the ideal H. We lived in this house for 4 years, and this the first he has started taking a real interest in working on it. Now he wants to do all the projects that need to be done. But when he leaves he is gone for hours. He left at 1:30 to play golf. It is now almost 9, where is he? It would be nice if he would spend time with me. I get maybe 4 hours per day on weekends if I'm lucky. I thought things were starting to go well. This past week, I did notice that he was going back and forth between acting like I matter and acting like he could care less.

Well, he called. He said they had to wait until 3 to get on and his cell phone was in his car and they took his friends car. I suppose golf courses don't have phones in the buildings so he could call and tell me that he is going to be later than planned. Oh well, I suppose it is to be expected. It does not make it easier.

I will have to make the most of the trip to the resort.

Need to vent-
Started out as a good day. In general I try not to let things get to me. I don't have that luxury right now. I have to stay focused on what is important. Plan A, school, kids, and order fluctuates as necessary.

Right now, I'm not happy with him. He is getting better at being supportive of kids. His birthday is coming up. I was planning on having a small family party at the house, then taking him away for the weekend. He knew this. Now he says he wants concert ticket to Def Leppard. I don't particularily like Def Leppard, he know it. However, i would get him tickets for us to go to if that is what he wants. Instead he says that I don't have to go, so who is going? Are these tickets boughten? What about our plans? Sometime's I want to throw in the towel and say forget the whole mess, he is not worht it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Sue,

Sorry to hear you've hit a rough spot. The rollercoaster part of this is really hard. It's funny because every time I have a particularily good day it seems that I get my hopes up that I will live "happily every after". And of course that's not reality. So with the first letdown after the good day my mood really tanks.

In your case I wish your H weren't so open to taking someone else to the concert. That would be a great chance for you to have fun as a couple, which is so hard to do with kids at home.

Did you ever have a d-day #2? Let us know how you're doing. CSue

Still leaving D day # 2 unconfirmed. Unfortunately for me it will be that way for about a year. I have to get through school, take boards, find a new job, make sure I have child care arrangements in place, then confront when I confront.

I should have been clearer on the concert thing, he tried to imply that he would go alone because he knows I don't listen to Def Leppard. Now, I don't believe that he would go alone. I don't know of anyone who goes to concerts alone, besides, my H, is a social creature. He tries to tell me he does movies alone. I know better than that. I guess I can put this in his "hall of fame for dim witted comments". I do have to admit, he is getting better at it. The dim witted comments, I mean. (Here is a survey, what is the worst dim witted comment that WS told you to try to cover up A)

I'm more of a country girl. I venture to Rock, such as Pat Benatar, yes, the late 70's early 80's rock was good stuff. Yes, Def was around then too, but I didn't get too much into his stuff.

Lately when he has gone golfing, lets hope he is golfing, he is gone longer than he says he would be. Everytime he has to wait to get on the course in scourghing 90+ heat with a 70 humidiy index.

I do my best to stay up. As of late it is getting to me. How is she going to survive the next two weekends. We are going to be out of town.

Better news today. H and I just got back today from a weekend trip to Missouri.

Anyway, H is not going to go to the concert. I suggested I buy him the tickest for his birthday, and he said he was thinking about not going, since it would be something that the kids could not go to. He wants to spend the whole day with his family. WAY COOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (now I hope he does not change his mind and burst my bubble)

We spent over 10 hours together in the car. Okay, part of it I was sleeping, or he was sleeping. When I was not sleeping I was studying. (I have a test on Wed.). He was very admamant that I only drive when he needed the break. He wanted me to get my studying in.

We spent the weekend having fun. Vacations are tiring. Now I am on top of the world. For how long, I don't know, but I will enjoy it while I'm up here.

HI,
I'm not sure if I'm venting or what. I thought we had a good weekend. Now he is distant. I suppose it is the fog.

I wish I was in a position to confront him. Get it all out in the open. One year seems so far away. I want to get it out in the open and either get her out of his life or get him out of mine (as much as I can with 3 kids). Idealy I want my M to work. I'm just so sick of the situation.

Done with my moment of self pity

Sometimes I wonder if the problem is I am older. I know that should not bother me. I'm only 6 years older. When we met, he had a mustache, he looked older. I thought he was my age. I was hooked when I found out his real age. He has had this mustache since he has been 18 or 19. Lately, he shaves, grows it back, shaves grows it back. Right now, it is shaved. He likes it that he looks younger. I look young for my age, but does it bother him that I am older and he wonders if I will start to show my age? I can't do much about the aging process.Is he shaving it for her. I'm not sure about her age. I think she is about mid 20's. My H has always dated older women. I should have known better.

I am so tired today. Is it because i had my final yesterday and I can now relax, if you dont' count having to catch up on house work. I come from work at midnight, dishes from dinner are not done, I wash them when I get up a 6am to make his lunch. He does not keep an eye on the kids, so their toys and clothes are all over the house. He lets the kids undress in whatever room they are in, and they leave their clothes on the floor, chair, whatever is closest.

Today, I went back to bed after making his lunch, work up at 10, finished laundry, went to work, and I am exhausted. I'm writing this on my break. I can barely stay awake. I don't know if it is depression, winding down from my busy schedule or what. Now that I don't have school to keep me occupied, I'm thinking more about what he is doing. I want to cry, but I'm too tired.

I wish this heat would go away. I have more energy when it is not so hot. I need the temps to drop about 20 degrees. Right now I'll settle for 5 degrees and no humidity

I want to LB sooooooooo much. This keeping my big mouth shut is not my style. I'm used to telling him like it is. That is why I don't get why he married me. He knew I would not hold my tougue. If I didn't like something he did, I told him so. And I did not waste any words in the process. I'm tired of his not helping around the house. I come home, the sink is full of dinner dishes. The kids activities are all over the house. His idea is that it is womans work. Well, yeah, back in the days when woman stayed home all day long and had nothing else to do.

Well, I cannot forget he does mow the grass once per week and chops wood about 4x per year for the fireplace. While I, do laundery daily, dishes daily, vaccum daily, sweep daily. And he wonders why I'm tired at the end of the day. Lets not forget I work 40 hours per week and go to school part time. Some of the stuff does not get done daily like it should, it all depends upon what I have due for school that week. One more year.

He spends $$ like we have a $$ tree in the back yard. Claims he does side jobs. I think the side jobs are more like BJ's from the OW. I never see the $$ from the alleged side jobs. When I used to work 2 jobs, I would put the 2nd paycheck into the joint account where it belonged. Same with my bonuses from work. Well, no more, my bonuses are mine, mine mine. Well, maybe the kids too. But he will not see 1 red cent.

Sue -- I am sorry you are having such a difficult time right now, and I wish I could come over there and smack you H up top the head for his stupidity!!! I give you a LOT of credit for being able to hold your LB's, because I think that if I was in your situation, I would NOT be able to!!! Speaking your mind is NOT a bad quality... to me it means you are not afraid to say what you think! (something I admire in a person!!!) I wish you could get your H to fess up, and get over himself!!! You DON'T deserve the crap he is putting you through!!! This whole "fog" thing would make me CRAZY!!! Don't you ever get the desire to grab him by the neck, and explain to him that his A is nothing more than fantasy, and if he had to actually deal with life issues with her, he would realize that she is NO different than the rest of us!????!! Like I have said before, I have NO respect for a woman who would get involved with a married man... I think that they are cruel, they abviously have no concern for their part in the pain they cause!!! ( I know it takes two, but if #2 says "no way, your married, go home to your spouse" then the A can't happen!!!) It may take two for an A, but it only takes ONE to say "NO"!!! (just my opinion!)

I really feel sorry for your H's OW, because she will find herself all alone and feeling like a whore when this is all said and done! (which is exactly what she deserves) You and your H will have the opportunity to fix your M, and she will have NOTHING!!! (again, what she deserves!!!)

I hope things get easier for you SOON!!! I wish I could do something... anything to help you, but as you know I really have no clue about all this! Just know that my thought are with you!!!

Wishing you all the best!

-mcnyh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm sooo glad I found this site. I was hoping someone out there could guide me. We live in Florida and just got a call from my son-in-law of 2 months that our daughter (his new wife) has been unfaithful to him for at least 12 months, and with at least 2-3 different men. He is understandably upset and wants her out of the house (they live in CT) and wants nothing more than to confront these men. My daughter is 25 years old and has been with my son-in-law for 8 years, engaged for almost 5. When they first decided to live together, nearly 4 yrs ago, I tried to encourage her to get an apartment with one of her friends, so that she would have an opportunity to live a little, on her own, before settling down. We love our son-in-law, he is a good man, and a wonderful provider. He adores our daughter, has an 8 yr-old son from a previous relationship, but I think there was something going on that made her feel unworthy or didn't measure up. She has a very strong personality, is outgoing and beautiful. But she makes only about 1/3 as much as he does, and I think that has been an underlying issue between them for a couple of years (they bought a house together 2 years ago, but her name was not put on the title because she has terrible credit. when they set up housekeeping, they agreed to split expenses 50/50, which put a strain on our daughter) We told her that we love her, that they should continue to get counseling (which they just started last week) to deal with this. I told my daughter that she needs to find out why she would want to sabotage her relationship, as well as to think about what she really wants for her life. She says that she truly loves her husband and doesn't know why she's done what she has. What can we do to encourage reconciliation, understanding, and perseverance, as well as be an effective tool in diffusing the highly emotional situation occurring in their home? I feel really helpless being so far away. My husband and I are not financially well off right now, and cannot afford to go up there, or to bring her here for a while. Personally, I don't think that she should leave the area; that, at most, she should stay with a good friend for a day or so for things to cool down, and have an impartial and supportive ear to share this with. She has not told any of her friends, and is ashamed to tell them, but I reminded her of their wonderful nature and that they love her too, and, even if though they would normally disapprove of that type of behavior, she is their friend, and they would not be judgmental of her actions. This is so out of character for her, she is usually a very well grounded and sensible person. I can only think she must be terribly unhappy and she was looking for some attention, especially since the way my son=in-law found out, it seemed like she wanted to get caught. I had no idea anything like this was going on, I'm baffled as to how to help them. Does anyone have any suggestions to help me to help my daughter and her husband through this.

Hi MC,

Thanks - I was having a couple of bad days there. I had my final, so my major distraction was gone. It did not help any that my son told me that my H mad the comment "she is making me miserable". Son said dad did not know he was within earshot. This I did confront H on. He said he no longer feels that way. So, If he is no longer miserable with me, why does he call her. I've speculated baby??????????????. Is that the connection???????? She lives at home with mom and dad. Wouldn't mom & dad question why this relationship has not progressed any. If you count when they first met, they have known each other for 7 years. How much of it is an A, I don't know.

And to anwser your questions, yes, I would like to strangle him. They dealt with life's issue before. When he first met her, he cancelled our wedding plans, and moved in with her. At least we didn't plan on a big wedding. Was going to have the priest do a small ceremony. He's catholic. Before they moved in together, they had lots of fun. He had lots of money, he had access to my paycheck and was not paying child support. After he left, he had to pay me child support. It cut big time into his funds. About 6 months later, he wanted back together. He was still lying to me about his relationship with her. What kind of woman stays with a man who goes back to his ex fiance and marries his ex fiance. Is it the thrill of an A? School starts up again a month. I'm going to start my daughters halloween costume. It will keep me busy. The boys don't know what they want, so we will probably buy theirs. Once school starts I won't have time to make them.

Once I can focus on school, it will not be able to distract me. I wish he would admits so we can start to work on recovery.

Worriedmom: you will get better results if you put the same information in a new thread.

Thanks

Worriedmom: I should have included how to do this. At the bottom of this thread, where the reply button is, is a "post new topic" click on that button and copy and past your stuff from your entry. Give it a subject that will catch others attention.

I'll be okay. I think I'm hitting a mild state of depression. I get up, and I'm okay, within a couple of hours I'm tired again. I have a lot I have to get done, and I'm not interested in doing it. I have to snap myself out of it and make myself do these things. Maybe that will help change my mood.

Can someone tell me why I am trying? Boys play soccer on Mon & Wed. Some days are practices some days are games. I work 2nd shift. He knew what days soccer was when they were signed up. So, why does he have to play monday night softball, beside he likes the team. He plays Tuesday night softball, subs on a Friday team and his Sunday team just had their last game. So, why can't he give up Monday for the boys. I have to get my sister or his mother to take the boys and our D. Yes, I have to, he does not bother to. It is his game. Tonight, my sister's son had ball, so we have a conflict. Well, I could not ask her to not take her son to his ball game, so my kids missed out on their soccer so he could play ball. I don't get the selfishness. I should not be surprised. When we first me, he gave me lipsink about how kids came first, but he is just like both his parents, neither one of them made sacrifices. My H was a latchkey kid before the term existed, he was in the first grade. She justifies it, by saying the babysitter she hired, said why bother hiring her for him, he was at the ball field all the time. I want to know, what is a 1st grader doing at the ball field alone????????. My MIL says, we didn't know better back then. BOLONEY, my mom was having kids before she was, and my mom didn't do that. We were not allowed to leave the yard without permission, and if mom and or mom and dad had to go somewhere without us, we had babysitters. We were not allowed to leave the house without the babysitters permission, and generally that was never. Venting. Why do I want to stay married to a man who obviosly comes from such a dysfunctional background and no one gets that this is not appropriate. When I comment on how he plays too many games and he should be giving up on Monday for the boys, well, "he needs time out too". And I don't. What kind of message is he sending to the boys about how important he is compared to them. I warned my H, that the day will come when the kids will have no respect for him, and he will have brought it on himself. He does not believe. My oldest son, is already lying to dad, but will be honest with me. He does not want to tell dad the truth, I've asked him why, and he says "just because" I've told oldest how wrong lying is. It does not matter who you lie to. Oldest is already showing signs of disrespect for H. I can't talk to H about this stuff. He does not believe me when I point this stuff out to him. Oldest is already showing early signs of maturing, such as body odor. H has not had any talks with him about puberty, so he will have an idea that changes occur as boys age. So I sat him down and had a very simplified talk. I told him that as he gets older, there will other talks regarding these changes, and when he is ready we can talk about it. I guess I have to be mom and dad to all the kids.

All I want is a man that puts his family first. Sees the importance of family first. Am I asking for so much????? Maybe he just cannot fulfill those shoes. As I look back, the warning signs were there, of course they didn't show up until after we had kids. I now question if taking him back was the right thing to do.

Sue - my H is a sports fanatic too. he played ball once a week and hockey 2 times (at least) per week!!! He never understood how much pressure this all put on me! Before the kids, I went with him to all the games, but after the second one, there was no way I could jugle them both at a game!!! So he went, and I stayed home with the kids... I would get sooooooo frustrated with him, I felt like me and the girls didn't even rate with him! I finally put my foot down and told him how unfair it was that he got so much "him time" while "my time" was food shoping (oooh, fun!!!). My H now only plays hockey once a week... that's it. I still don't get any "me time", but at least he is around more now!

I am so sick of hearing that "boys will be boys", because that is a load of crap! Boys should become MEN!!! That means accepting their responsabilities... wife, children, etc!!! They need to GROW UP and deal with life! (not get "confused" or "scared" and run to some dumb bimbo for "support"!!!)

I hope that your H wakes up from his fog, and realizes how selfish HE is being... you deserve to be happy!

Sorry for the intensity of my post, I just get really frustrated!

All my best!

-mcnyh

Hi MC,
don't apologize, I feel the same way. I don't mind his sports, and I too used to go. Now, I'm allowed to go to select teams. What, is she at the others???????

He has not played hockey since he started coaching the boys, so he does have some involvment. My me time is school, and work, and the shopping too. WOW!!!!. They just don't get it.

Well, I keep hoping. No one can take that away.

When taking antidepressants, is this just a temporary thing? I'm thinking about contacting my doctor. Ever since my class ended I have lost all energy. All I want to do is sleep. I have no interest in doing anything. The weather the last couple of days have been perfect for doing stuff outside, and all I want to do is lay around the house, let the kids play on the computer, as long as they leave me alone. That is not me. I take a real interest in my kids, since class ended, I don't care. Fall semester is a month away from starting. I know school helps to keep my attention focused on myself and not on H or the A.

sue, i know exactly how you feel. i have no motivation to do the projects i need to do for work, get stuff done around house etc. I dont have kids...but my sister is bringing my 2 beautiful nieces to my state to see me in a couple of weeks and I cant even get excited about it. Usually we spend every waking moment playing and having fun when i see them and i right now i am just thinking i dont want to exert the energy. all i want to do is sleep too.

i am thinking of trying anti depressents also...i was doing some research on the web and found that the diet drug Meridia was first used as an antidepressent and then marketed as a diet drug after they noticed it helped people lose weight too. I am thinking of trying it...perhaps I will get a 2 fold benefit.

hope you have a better day tomorrow...i keep reminding myself each day is new and perhaps the next one will be better.

best wishes

Thanks - Hope we both have better days too. I should ask my Dr. about Meridia. I need to lose some weight also, so maybe I can be a great looking depressed woman. I used to exercise, and that helped, but now, I cannot motivate myself to do that either. When I am at work, I feel my best. Probably because I'm not at home, I don't want to leave work. Everyday on my way home, I think, I could just keep driving, then I remember the kids and I could not do that to them.

I want school to start again. I need school to start again. I was all excited to go to the Hancock fabrics and get the material for my D's costume. I planned to make it while on break, since I won't have time once school starts again. The boys, I told them if they didn't decide by the time school started, this year we will buy their costumes and after I'm done with school, I will go back to making them.

Why does he think he is getting away with anything. I think his mom is starting to suspect, even though she has not said anything. Just with the way that she has answered questoins. I think she does not want to raise the issue. The last time he did this, she was so angry with him. She spent 6 years putting up with abuse and infidelilty from my H's dad, that she hoped she raised them to be different.

Hi Whereismy

Maybe when your sister gets here, that might help you get out of the slump?

I'm going to check my drug book at home and see about different antidepressents. Maybe I need this to get me through until school starts. (I'm going to school to be a RN).

My day is a little better today. Not much. I didn't go back to sleep for as long, but then again I couldn't. I made arrangements with MIL to take her to get her car fixed. I called Dr., day off today, go figure. So I will call tomorrow.

H is still trying to perway me to celebrate his birthday on a day other than his birthday. Why, does he have plans with OW? Am I spoiling those plans by trying to include me and the kids. The only way he will be able to get out of doing anything with me, is by refusing to, and then I will want a valid explanation, good luck to him coming up with one.

Sue - I am also considering calling my Doctor. I feel so blue most of the time! I know a lot of it is the stress of trying to sell our house, but when I try (key word: TRY) to go to sleep, I still get images in my head that upset me... Will they ever go away??? I explained this to my H, and he is trying to be understanding, but there is NO way he could possibly understand what I am going through!!! I know he is going through his own "stuff", but I am the one with the images to deal with... MY OWN SISTER!!!!!! Just the thought of it makes me sick!!! How could they do this to me????

Sorry. I hope you are able to get out of your funk... Maybe meds would help you. My H just started taking stuff about 3 weeks ago, and it seems to be helping him. (the pschiatrist seems to think he has an adjustment dissorder...)

When you H wakes up, he is going to realize just how great you are... I hope it's not to late for him when he does!!!

Take care of yourself!

-mcnyh

I hope you are right, that H will think I'm the greatest. Right, now, I don't think so. I wish I knew how to get in touch with his XW. He is my first marriage, this is his second marriage. He married his HS sweetheart, he claims they married too young, him 19 her 18 and that was why they broke up. However, the way he describes how he would do what she wanted to please her, has me wondering, 1) is this really true? 2) If it is true, why doesn't he love me that much?

And what the H*** is so special about OW that he would jeopardize our M and hurt our kids? I know FOG, FOG, FOG, or another word, STUPIDITY. Guess I'm loosing my cool here.

I don't think you are losing your cool... I give you a LOT of credit for doing what you are doing!!! I don't think I could! You have a plan, and you are sticking with it... Your H is a lucky man, and someday (soon, I hope) he will realize it! He married you for a reason! I think he is just to absorbed in his "fantasy" world to remember that! Whoever this OW is, she is not a woman, she is a stupid little girl who has no concern for the pain she is causing you! What man would want (I mean REALLY want) a whore like that? It's fun for a while, but he WILL see her for what she is!

I am glad you are feeling better, and I hope your ride gets easier for you! (mine is just starting, I think...)

Have a good night!

-mcnyh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

[ July 24, 2002, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: mc needs your help ]

MC - Thanks, you have a good night too.

I just don't get it, lets assume the worst,
He never stopped seeing her, got back with me, married me and continued his involvement with her. Why would she stay? If this is the case, why would she stay in an A for 7 years? This sounds so ..... I don't know, dumb?

everyday I get a little better. Now I stay awake in the mornings instead of going back to sleep. I still don't want to do anything. To be truthful, I don't really wake up until it is time to go to work. When I get to work, that is when I start feeling like myself. When I leave work, I don't want to go home, I go home because of the kids. What I really want to do is to keep on driving until I'm out of gas and money.

Today, i want to cry, I feel on the verg of it all the time. I hate my job and lately it is what I look forward too. Came home from Dr. She gave me a presecription of antid's. I hope they help. I never thought I would ask for these

Wow, I am just reading your story for the first time. I am amazed at your control, I would be tailing him and thinking of all kinds of ways to bust him by now. I get the feeling you are more affraid of the fact he will leave you than anything else. Do you really need a M like this though? You might be happier with out him...

Yes, I am very afraid he will leave. At this time, his leaving would put a very bad financial hardship on me and the kids. I would have to give up on my goal for my career change. I have one year left of school. It would be an increase in income for me and better income opportunities, plus, the chance of lay offs and job elimination are slim in my new chosen field. In my current job, I have no idea how long it will be before my job is gone. In the past 2 years, approx. 5 or more departments have been eliminated. Some were lucky enough to find jobs within the company, others were not. By the time I expect this to happen to my department, my oldest will be a teenager, I will be at that age where it is hard to get hired. I would have to take a tremendous pay cut. None of that would be fair to my children. I have to put them first in my decision making. 7 years ago, he walked out on me. With county aid, and a full time job, I was barely making it. I made too much to get most types of assistance out there, and the one I did get, I barely qualified for. I had to borrow money many times from my mom to make ends meet. She is no longer around to help me out. If she was, I would have left with the kids and moved in with her. No one will help me with the kids so I can finish school. I work second shift hours, second shift daycare is hard to find. (I'm on break right now). And because of the kids, I really want my M to work. I don't want them to be hurt by this. I'm doing all I can to keep it from them. They did not ask for any of this and if my M does not work, I want there to be the minimal amount of changes and sacrifices for them. So, I have to be able to support my children without him, if it comes to that. I also do love him. If i didn't, it would not hurt so much. I probably would be happier without him. But at what cost to who? It would be so easy to walk away and put it behind me. I belive M, should last a lifetime.

I am having a really good day. I got some mail from school, with fall schedule. School really helps to brighten my day. Probably because if points to a new future. One I am really looking forward to.

H, came home from work sick, something he rarely does. I did not offer to stay home from work to care for the kids. Suffer and care for them as I do when I am sick (oops, evil twin sneaked out here, she likes to do that that every now and them. I am the angel twin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Anyway, today, nothing he does can bother me. I'm probably the only one in my class that looks forward to school starting up.

H surprised me, when I showed him the calender for the kids school, and what was on it. He actually suggested we attend a few school events (not like him at all). Well, I know better than to put too much into this. I can say this, one good thing has come out of my going to school. He has had to take care of the kids and find out what parenting is really about. In the past, he had the fun and games part and I had the illnesses, dirty diapers, and such like that.

Well, I decided to take Anti-d's. At first they made me very sleepy. Which I didn't like. I have classes resuming at the end of the month, my kids school starts up. I was sleeping so much, I was not taking care of the house or the kids. I cannot have this. Called Dr., she cut dose in half. So far so good. I feel alot calmer, even the stress is gone.

H, even asked me to go to the movies with him last Saturday. That was a surprise. Last night when I got home from work, he cuddled in bed. (He does not normally cuddle.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I hope this is a sign of good things to come.

Cuddles are nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I dunno about AD's. Very difficult to get a drug right without bad side effects - specially ones like AD's that work on the brain/hormones.

Sue - are you OK???? I've been a little worried about you.

Please let me know...

-mcnyh

Hi, Sue!

I know I haven't been around for awhile -- very busy with summer school and work. I just got caught up on your posts. Sorry that things have been difficult. I think you are doing good to stay focused on your objectives. Keep up the Plan A -- the ADs will help you. I took them., I am currently trying to wean myself off them. Now that I am trying to get off them, I realize how much they helped.

Anyway, just wanted to post a quick Hi and let you know I am still thinking about you.

FHO

Hi Former,
thanks for looking in. Things are much better now that I have started taking AD's. At first the dose was too high and now I wanted to sleep because I was feeling too good.

How is school going? Good i hope. How long until you are done? I hope not too long. Law school, correct?

I was glad to hear from you.

Hi,

Yep, law school. Unfortunately I have a long way to go. I just started in January, so I have 3.5 more years. Oh, well, it will go by soon enough.

Hope things are going well with your school. It's great that you will be done fairly soon. It probably helps you to have a goal to work towards during the difficulties you are going through.

The ADs will help with your overall situation -- they don't have any radical effects, just help smooth things out.

Hang in there.

FHO

I'm glad I'm almost done.

Yuk, 3.5 years left. Have fun. It will be worth it in the end. Do you plan to work for the government, big law firm, small law firm, legal publishing company? Or have you not really thought that far in advance?

[ August 15, 2002, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi, Sue,

I have no idea what I want to do yet. Since I have only had two part-time semesters so far, I haven't experienced any specialty classes yet. I am just going to wait and see how things go.

How are things going with your H? I went back and caught up on your posts and it looks like there has been some good and some bad -- that's the rollercoaster that we all know so well.

I think it is great that you are concentrating on your long-term goals. I know that after I found out, that was something that was very hard for me. But, I was determined to finish what I had started. (My first d-day was the first days of orientation for school. -- What timing.) Anyway, I am glad I have kept at it. In the long run, I will be happy I made the sacrafices and have a secure future.

Keep plugging away -- when do you start back up for school? I start next week.

FHO

[ August 16, 2002, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: FormerHopelessOne ]

School starts the 26th, which is what, about 2 weeks. The first couple of weeks after I found out, were hard to concentrate. Thank god finals were a little ways away. Anyway, after I got past the first two weeks, I was able to use school as a diversion to keep me focused.

As of late, things have been okay with H and I. He actually wants to spend some time with me once in while. So, I see some minor improvement in that area.

The big explosion will come after I finish school. I don't know exactly how I will handle it, but I will let him know, that if he intends for this m to work, he cannot have any more contact whith her.

I'm glad for you things are better. I hear law school is very tough.

I know that you are bitter that she's always been in his heart. You must feel like Diana, the princess of Wales. Keep venting here to take the bitterness out of your heart, we are your punchbag. Try and change aspects of your personality that may make you more attractive to a man. This is what Plan A is all about.

Hi Relate,
I'm not bitter - anymore. I have what is important to me. When my class ended in July, my focus was gone, so the rollercoaster ride started. School starts in 2 weeks, my goal will be in sight again. When I finish school, then I will deal with this other issue.

I don't think she has his heart. From what I know about her, she likes MM. They cannot commit and she does not want committments. She likes her free and easy life. The minute one of her conquests becomes available, she is gone. (She has done this before, and likes the challenge from what I've heard. My sister's H, knows her and her ways. She used to be part of their friendship circle until she picked my H, they all dumped her as a friend because my H is my sisters BIL)

Sue,

It has been tough, but maybe that has been a good thing. I also hear that nursing school is tough. Good luck.

What a shame that your H got involved with an OW like that -- someone who get pleasure from destroying others relationships. In a way I feel sorry for your H because he is destroying his M and causing pain to his family all for someone who does not really want him anyway -- only the challenge he represents. What a wake up call he will have one day.

However, it still takes two to tango and no matter how aggressive this woman is, he is still responsible for his actions.

It is good that he wants to spend time with you. Keep working on the RC -- deposit those LB$.

FHO

I'm doing my best to make those deposits. This morning he surprised me. He was teasing me with one of my own comments.

We recently bought him a new car with an agreement that within the next year or two, he will get a new truck and I will take the car.

My car started going sooner than we planned, so we figured out how much we could afford for a different car. He was trying to talk me into a minivan. I don't like minivans. I like cars. We were walking around the car lot, and I saw GMC Jimmy, I told him I would drive that. He agreed. I also told him, if we bought this and not some cheap car we could pay cash for, that means no truck next year. So he said fine, as long as he has a truck. He drives the furthest for work so he takes the car. This morning I made a comment about my truck, and he said what happened to "our" truck. I told him that it is 99% mine and the 1% his gives him the privledge of calling it "ours". (I'm converted and don't want to go back to cars). So, he stared in teasingly that he sees how I am. In the past, he would have gotten all huffy about this sort of conversation instead of seeing it as light humored teasing. So, I see some progress between us.

I probably overstepped my bounds a little. We are discussing selling our home when I finish school. I called a realtor to get an appraisal and tips on what we should do over the next year to increase the value. He was okay with it, once I explained why, but I think he would have prefereed I consulted him first. Then again, he knows when I get an idea in my head I go with it and tell him after. I let him know it is only because I felt we should find out from a professional the value and what we should and should not spend our money for improvements to the house. I don't see this as a LB withdrawal and if it was, I think it was a very small one. I know him, he will think about it, and he will ask me what she said. He will be interested.

So, how is it going with you?

All these children abduction - I'm ready to put bars on my childrens windows and quaduple the locks on the house. Plant a guard dog outside their room. (okay a lot extreme)

[ August 16, 2002, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Dear Sue,

right- I don't like minivans either... those and SUVs should be illegal (if you ask me).
Good choice to buy a real car!

Talking about cars-you want to hear a funny story?
I bought my H a Porsche for his 40 birthday 4 months ago, joking that he can drive the car instead of getting his midlife crisis. Well-as we all know here- that didn't help...the car was always sitting in the garage and the midlife crisis/A happened anyway.
Now it is MY car and I've been driving it the 25 miles to work every day. Boy-that's some fun. Two days ago I had a really cute construction worker whistle at me and lift up his shirt (I and all the other people waiting at the traffic light couldn't believe it).

Thanks for all your comments on my story, Sue. Just wanted to cheer us up a bit.

Dear sue,

me again- when you said truck did you mean a pick-up or an SUV.
If it's an SUV-I apologize. I just don't like them because they are always soooo slow in the curves.

SUV - its practical with 2 kids who play hockey. I call it a truck because it isn't a car or a minivan. I used to drive a colt with 3 kids, 2 in car seats or booster seats. Now only one in car/booster seat. It also makes me slow down. I've had a few too many tickets.

I like the construction worker scenario. Can I borrow the porsche <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

[ August 16, 2002, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi Sue,

how are you doing? How are things?

Is that your photo in the MB photo album?

I had a big LB day today, the best thing after that is just to hang out here and check on some nice people like you.

When are you coming to NYC to check out that construction worker scenario??? (LOL) Works like magic...and if that is your photo in the MB Album, we won't be able to save ourselves from the guys.

Hope you're doing well.
All the best to you

Hi Liza,
Nice to hear from you. No, I didn't put one out their yet. All of my most recent ones make me look like I just crawled out from under a rock. Okay, so maybe I did (LOL).

I am going to when I get a fairly decent one. Lets see, the most recent one has me either squinting from the sun, wind making my hair look like I have not combed it in years (on a pontoon on a very windy day). I could grab the one from about 10 years ago. In that one I look great.

I'll have to check out the MB photo thread again.

Are you in there?

Lets see, when is a good time to come and check on NYC construction workers. MMMMMM

I will have to tell you about one thing that happend about 3 years ago at my work. They were expanding on the building. Now, I'm about 7 month pg with last child. This hunk of a construction worker gets on the elevator. MMMM baby. I lost it. Normally I can see a cute guy and I think to myself not bad, and end of subject. I was talking to my friends as we are about to get on the elevator. Before he doors close on walks Mr America. Face and body all in one package. I totally forgot what I was talking about. My friends tried to get me back on subject, but I was a gonner. My friends sure had a hoot out of that one because normally a cute guy does not get a reaction out of me. All I could think was, why did I have to be married and obviously pregnant( bad girl) LOL. Oh well, can't have everything now can I.

How come was it a LB day? or don't you want to get into it?

I'm confused lately.

H and I have been talking about selling house and moving when I finish school. I'm excited about the prospect. I like my house, but I don't like the city we live in. I know what city I want to move to.

Here is my confusion. As of late - I'm not sure if I still love my H. Is my barriers up for self protection or has all my love been drained from the bank?

Why would I even consider selling and moving with a man I don't know if I want to stay married to him?

Many a times, I think when I am done with school, he is out of here.

I cannot live with a man who thinks it is okay to leave all day on the weekends, while I am at home cleaning all day. If I was a stay at home mom, I would not complain about doing all the housework. I am not a stay at home mom. I work full time, school part time. Is it wrong of me to ask for domestic help. I don't think so. Personlly, I think he is being selfish and lazy if he refuses to help me around the house. Am I being to harsh on him?

Hi, Sue!

Right now it is proably hard to really decide if you love him or not. I know that after I found out there were times when I just wanted my H out of there -- when I really thought I didn't love him. When he left, I knew that I did love him -- I just didn't like who he was during that time (the alien).

You probably shouldn't make any final decisions until you and your H are in counseling. At least you won't be selling for about a year. It certainly never hurts to spruce up your house, but don't become committed to a situation that you won't be able to handle if things don't work out (big house payments after you finish school that you won't be able to handle by yourself). You have already said that after school you want things to come to a head regarding your situation. You probably shouldn't become committed to something until then. At that point you will probably know what your feelings are and if your H is willing to commit to your M.

Anyway, hang in there!

Also, what is wrong with minivans. I have one (don't even have children) and I absolutely LOVE IT! My H hates it and that has been an issue between the two of us. My dogs love it too.

FHO

Hi FHO

Thanks for your words of encouragement. I know I won't make any decisions with regards to selling and buying a home until things with us are resolved.

With regards to minivans- I have nothing against them. Even though I have kids, I have this aversion to anything that says I'm getting older. Minivans represent that to me, so does short hair. (when I think of short hair I think of my mom and my neighbors and friends mom from growing up). I know, minivans don't really say that, but to me they equate with stationwagon. If I could I would have a sports car, not practical, so the SUV is the closest I can get to sporty and still provide me the room I need for the kids.

I know, sounds a little wacky. But it is my wackiness

Hi,

I also think minivan says I am getting older. I didn't really want to get one at first, but my dog really liked my MIL's van, and I wanted a car that we could all go in places, so it was either minivan or SUV. AFter I got it, I found out I loved it. The only thing I don't like about it is that it does scream "Suburban Stay-at-Home Mom" which I absolutely am not. Oh well, I still like it.

I was thinking about your situation and the one good thing about having the goal to finish school and then come to some resolution re your M is that if you continue your Plan A during this time you will have had a chance to deposit an enormous amount of LB$. By the time you are done, your H will really have something to think about. It will have been enough time for him to really see the changes you have made in yourself and he probably will not want to let you go. Then you will be able to start working together to resolve issues in your M (like you doing the housework).

Anyway, I was just thinking about it.

FHO

I hope you are right. I get so frustrated at times. Like now. He is going away for the weekend. An annual trip. I'm generally okay with it, except, I know 6 years ago, she went on this trip. (Supposed to be a all guy trip) does she still go? Or he has all these friends, before he met her, I was invited with him to their homes. Now, I am not. Does she go? Why does he choose to exclude me? These are the things that I get frustrated with. Before we got married, I told him that this behavior will stop or we do not get married. He agreed. Well, it has not stopped. Oh well, School starts on Monday, I will have a new focus. I will do my best to make deposits and we will see come May/June. I try not to dwell on these things as they only frustrate me, so why bother.

H, chooses to not take me out much, but I know he takes her out. He uses the bank card. It showss up on our statement, TGIF, Damon's, APPLEBEE's. And the amount is the amount that one would spend on two, not one. I question these to him.

Cheerier subject - Boys sign up hockey this weekend, and I have so sign up Daughter for dance. My sister took her to her daughters recital, and now she is bugging me for sign up. For a 3 year old, her memory is way to good. She brings up things from a year ago with fair accuracy. She won't remember details, but she recalls enough so you know what she is talking about (she scares me).

Hi Sue,

I didn't know I would get myself in so much trouble with you gals about the SUV or minivans,

Sorry, sorry,sorry...

Many times I wished I'd have one, when I am at the wholesale place and I really want to buy that patio set and there is no way I could get it into my Volkswagen (forget about the Porsche, it has a trunk the size of my purse).

Or that time we went to Washington for the weekend, when the little one was 4 months old and I couldn't get my feet on the floor for five hours because the Golf was packed with enough equipment that you could have survived for six months in Antarctica. I would have killed for a SUV then.

Sue, I read your post about your husband using the banking card to charge meals for two at restaurants. Why do you think he's doing that? I find that?

Got to get back to my lab...
Talk to you later some more...

Sue,

I also wonder why he is being so careless when taking her out. I also would be concerned with him spending time with friends that help cover up an extramarital relationship. Obviously these are not friends of your M.

Why don't you ask him out instead of waiting for him to take you out? Plan something and go out. Or tell him that you would like to spend some time with his friends and when can all of you get together. Of course, if he doesn't react favorable, back off so you don't LB. But if he says yes, it will be a great opportunity for LB$.

Well, school should soon take your mind off things. I started this week, so am getting busy again. Oh well, it is better to be busy than bored.

FHO

Hi FHO & Liza,

I cannot wait for school to start. I really need it to.

I've asked him out, his birthday was last month, I tried making special plans, nothing. He says, he will see if something better comes up.

His friends have not respect for M. Most of them have cheated on their spouses. His so called best friend cheated constantly on his W. When she had an A of her own, my H found her to be disgusting, but it was okay for his friend to have one A after the onther. He knows I don't want his associtating with them. I've tried for us to make friends with others who will have a positive impact and no luck.

School willl help my frame of mind.

Hi Sue,

finally I got back to this computer. What a busy day... - and I am still here at work until tomorrow 10 AM.

I was wondering about your husbands attitude about spending time together with you? When he goes out to eat at those restaurants with OW, does he tell you where he is going? You said in some post before that he denies the A, so he won't tell you with her. How often in a week is he out with his "friends"? How often is he home having dinner with you and the kids?

I can imagine, that this situation must be so hard to live with every day. Hold on to your great kids - have fun with them! I'd love so much to have a daughter to take to dance classes. I envie all my friends who have daughters...my two boys are wonderful but it's not the same.

I laughed so much about your elevator construction worker story. You would REALLY have fun here since they are renovating this place and there are TONS of construction workers around...

Good night...

All that meat and no potatoes (LOL).

I work second shift, he works first. He picks up the kids from daycare, I drop them off on my way to work.

Weekends he disappears around noon and returns anywhere from the hours of 4-7. He says he's looking at houses, shopping, golfing.

I took the nigth off tonight. I have things to get done at home. He left for a drunken softball weekend this weekend. For all I know, she might be with.

School starts monday - nine more months and I graduate, then I take boards, then I find a new job. After that, I will deal with M.

Hi Sue,

good morning! I'm still here at work (2 1/2 hours more to go...). You can figure what my job is, right? Medical field,too, but that lousy part with the long calls. If someone had told me about this before, I would have studied art history instead. No, just kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I love my job and I wouldn't want to miss one minute of this exciting and challenging night. But a pillow would be really nice right now.

I am not sure I understand your schedule. If your kids are in daycare and he works first shift and picks them up and you work second and drop them off- I could not figure out who works when (maybe it's the time of night for me or general poor IQ...). And then on weekends he disappears, after a week of this working different times. And that he didn't want to go out with you...another thing that's terribly hard to take. I can just endlessly admire you for hanging in there:

<<<Cyberhug>>>

Are you still able to Plan A with all of this?
You're a saint and I am sure you'll be rewarded in heaven (either with your husband being nice again and fog lifted - or with a whole bunch of construction workers...). I won't see you there because I'll be stuck in hell for all those LBs that I committed after my H's A. Maybe they'll still admit me to heaven-economy class only- because I spent so many nights saving patients (there's still hope).

Bye for now-be strong!

Liza you are so funny.

I think I will take a whole bunch of contruction workers as my reward. One in each area, roofer, electrician, sheetrock, carpenter, plumber, my house should be in the best of shape. (LOL)

For trying to make it work, you will be going to heaven First Class.

I do my best to not LB, but then again I've had years of practice and a long time of suscpicions, so it is easy for me to hold my tongue on some issues. Then again, I have found a way to get things out, Probably and LB, but it does make him squirm. Such as (this is true) a class mate of mine is from one of the Dakota's. Her dad found out that her mom is cheating. In their state the BS can sue the OW and the WS, so I told him that, I left out the which state part.

Probably wrong of me, but I have to survive somehow.

Take care. Off to see the Grotto

It feels like the best you can do is plan A for the next nine months. That is long enough to see if it works and for you to finish your studies. At that point probably the best option is to do whatever you can to discover the affair with evidence, confront him, and go to plan B if he does not break it off.

[ August 25, 2002, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: relate ]

Hi Sue,

do you think they'll be checking tickets on boarding for heaven...???

I will sure get into trouble at the gate because I LBed big time again yesterday.

If you have time please read my post under my thread (wanted to put it there so that people who read my story don't think it's been all bliss the last few days)

Relate,

That is about all I can do.

Today was the day from you know where.

First day of class. MIL is a gem today. She took the kids last night so I would not have to disrupt their last week of summer vac and wake them up early to go to daycare so I can go to school They are at her house again tonight. I have to be to school at 8am. Tuesday night, my neice is going to stay the night and take the kids to daycare for me. I'm trying to not let my schedule interupt the kids schedule too much.

My MIL and I sometime do not see eye to eye, but she has been a real help with my school issue. We had our differences in the past (some major ones).

But H, was the straw that broke the camels back. I knew I was going to be late for work, because I had other things going on. Everytime I'm home when he gets home, do this, do that, even telling him I don't have time, usually makes me late, because I have to stop and tell him why, then the kids want something.

The bookstore did not have what I wanted, Kids didn't behave when we went for school pictures. One thing on top of the other.

tomorrow is another day.

Hi, Sue

Hang in there. Liza is right -- you are a saint to Plan A for this long. One of the things that has always kind of bothered me is that it generally seems that on these boards neither S is having their needs met, but one of them has an A to get his/her needs met, then in order to recover the M, the S not having the A has to do even more to meet his/her S's needs, while still not having his/her own needs met. How long can one go on without having his/her needs met? I guess that is where Plan B comes into play, when the LB$ is drained.

Anyway, just me own private vent. It seems to be especially applicable in your case -- your H plans his own activities to meet his needs, but you get to watch kids, clean house, go to school and work. ????????? The good news in all of this is that you are perfecting some great life skills -- patience, unselfishness, tolerance. These will always be with you. It also seems you are building a great R with your kids.

Hang in there. Keep your eye on the prize -- finishing school. Time enough later to make decisions about your M. Also after your great and long Plan A, you H will probably be startled when you reveal that you know about his A.

FHO

You know what, school is a great place to meet people who have a lot in common with you. My ex filed for divorce when I quit my job and registered for my studies, but after some time I didn't care because college was so much fun and I was falling big time for my supervisor.

Thanks to both of you.

Relate - If I start falling for my instructors, then I'm getting very desperate. (They are all female). Couldn't resist.

I know H will be very shocked when I reveal the A. He thinks I'm in the dark.

FHO, I'm thinking that all the BS's are saints then. To do plan A takes alot of strength, courage and patience.

Well, gotta get back to work. On break. School took up the whole day. Tomorrow too. This weekend I should have some time to be out here. H will probably home. He and his brother are going to redo our roof.

H and I went and bought roofing stuff. Being delviered on Sunday. H and his brother are going to tear off the old roof tomorrow, I get clean up duty. Then Sunday and Monday they plan on putting on the new roof. I wish we could just add a layer. We have to tear off. We have slowly discovered that the previous owners cut many corners on the house, so we need to see if the wood under the shingles is good.

H left to go get brother from airport. BIL job takes him out of town. H came back, was home for about 15 min, then said he was going to see his borther again. That was about an hour ago. He lives about 15 mins from us. I am not going to dwell on where he is. But I'm sure I know. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

I have homework to do. Lots of it. So off to the homework.

H keeps talking about us selling the house in a year or two and moving up north. I don't want to move up north. Besides, I am not going to give him the opportunity to say, since I'm working in the cities, I will stay with my mom during the week, and come home for weekends. He tried that one once before. That will not fly with me.

Beside, I dont' want to move up north. I want to stay in the area we are in. My family is here, and they are very helpful and supportive of me. There is no way they will drive 45 min - 1 hour to babysit for me. If we sell and move, it will be to move where I want to, and only where I want to, otherwise, we stay put. Some things in life are not negotiable. Yes, us moving would put distance between him and OW. Not if he started staying at his mom's. Or would he be staying at mom's?

Well, homework does not get done if I'm out here.

Hi Sue,

how about calling BIL's house and asking about some houseproject that you "just forgot" to talk about before H left. That way you find out where H is (sneaky...but justified).

I have been reading in the recovery forum today...yeah, that's pretty bold - I know. Sounds like I am moving from the ICU to rehab.

There's this lady who put a tape recorder in WH's car and taped him talking to OW after no contact letter. I was all shocked by how bad this world is and came back here really fast.

What kind of homework do they give you? Case scenarios?

See if you know this one: What do you do if you find a construction worker in NAD?
a. assess VS
b. remove shirt
c. all
d. neither
e. I need more data
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Over from MC's thread, so he has asked you to make more time and you have ignored this because you think you cannot afford it. What if you talk to him about this. Maybe he might be willing to work more hours and take time off from his entertainment activities, so you can afford to take time off work and spend it together. Managing 3 children, work and school is tough; I can't imagine how you do it. Obviously you must be tired and busy and this probably does have an unconscious effect on the marriage. He might just be keeping himself occupied with his activities while you are busy with your separate life.

- Relate

[ September 01, 2002, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: relate ]

Hi Relate-he kept hiself busy before I went to school. Unfortunately my going to school means he has to stay home evenings now.

How do I do it, I got to bed right when I get home, I'm up at 6:00, washd dishes, make H's lunch, run kids to daycare/school depending upon the day and child. Then either off to school for me, or back home to study and clean house. I try to do 1 - 2 loads of laundry per day. If i have time clothes get put away, if not, they stay folded in the laundry basket. Kids are getting better at helping. So the house is not as disaterous as it used to be. Last year my neice came in every saterday and helped clean. I paid her 20.00 (she was very underpaid).

Liza,

In answer to your question, I'm not sure what NAD means but I will take a shot,

the Answer is C. ALL, an if those VS are a little too stable, then I'm not doing my job.

We are starting Case studies this year. Next semester I understand we get into it very heavy.

I am one hurting unit today, yesterday, saterday. I didn't realize that cleaning up after H and BIL while they were on the roof was such hard work. I won't get on the roof. Too much of a chicken. I get 1/2 way up the ladder and I freeze, so I said I would do clean up, so they could concentrate on roof.

One more thing, I tape all lectures and listen too them while I work. It helps. A coworker proof reads my papers for clarity and grammer.

[ September 02, 2002, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

I think you should talk about making more time for each other. You should start the conversation like "I know I've been neglecting you because of my busy days and how tired I feel at the end of it. I'd like to spend some time alone with you." Then drop off the kids with someone one day.

You could tell him that it is only going to be like this for 9 more months and then you will have more time *and* more money.

- Relate

[ September 02, 2002, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Relate ]

Hi Sue,

how is the new roof?

I posted today in my thread -good new things are happening with our recovery.

And thanks for your tip with the hyperlinking. I managed today to put that article hyperlink in my old post-I was so proud when it worked. Maybe computer illiteracy is curable after all.

Take care and let us know what's going on with you.

Hi Relate,

I have tried for 5 years to get him to spend time with me. This is not a recent development because of my school. He does not want to be seen with me. I've tried to get him to let me come to his softball games (4 night per week, it used to be 5 nights per week and every weekend was a softball tournament which I was not allowed to come to). I'v offered for us to get a sitter and we go out. He rejects my offers. This has been going on since we have been married. Back in 1999 I suspected he started up with her again. I went back to school in 2000.

Since we have been married, before i went back to school, I worked during the day. I took the kids to daycare, I picked the kids up from daycare (he got off work 1 hour before me and refused to pick up the kids). I made dinner every night, I cleaned the house everynight, I did laundry everynight. Then I went to bed. He would come home from work, take a nap, get up for dinner, and leave, sometimes he was going to ball, othertimes he was going to the hardware store for nails or something. He usually left around 6, return around 9, he very seldom bought the item he went for. At some point, he decided that he could make more money if he went out of state for 3 months. His union got word that another union was short workers and there was mega overtime, plus the union scale was higher. I agreed to a 3 month time period. He was gone nine months. It was during this time, I went back to school. At first I took one class per semester at night until I got all of the liberal arts stuff out of the way. That left me with only nursing classes. Generally class was one night per week. During the time before I changed my hours to second shift, I asked many times for us to go out. He refused about 99% of the time. When I would ask in advance, his response was "we'll see. I have to see if something better comes up". The problems in my marriage did not develop because of my going back to school, it was going on before that. Our D was born in 1998, he missed her ultrasound because he was somewhere else. When she was 6 months old, I threw my bakc out. My oldest son who was 5 at the time had to help me, since my H would not. This is the time he decided that he needed to go out of state to work. I was on restrictions from my Dr, such as no vacuuming. He would not help. I had to continue with the housework, with a very sore back. I could not stand up straight for about 2 months it was that bad. I repeat, the problem is not my being in school. This all started long before I went back to school. One more thing, H has never offered to work more hours so I could cut back. When he was working out of state, the $$ came irregular, that I had to get a second job to make ends meet. I had to take money from my kids savings accounts to pay bills. He always sent it, eventually, but not in time to pay bills. I received letters from the gas company, phone company threatenting to disconnect. I'm not mad if it sounds that way. I'm crying as I type all of this because I deserve better and I know it. The kids deserve better. Once I told him he showed me disrespect when he just goes and does what he wants - his response was "Respect is over rated, beside, what do you mean I don't respect you, I married you"

Hi Liza,

Things are okay. I failed my first test. I had only one day to study for it because H decided that he had to go out of town for the weekend. D had dance, which my sister took her to because I had to take both sons to get their soccer uniforms for their game on Sunday. H is going out of town next week (all week). For fun. I had to arrange babysitters for his vacation. He takes about 3 trips per year, and non of them include the family. So, why do I want to stay married to this man. When I figure it out, I'll let you know.

My son calls me almost daily because he is so frustrated over his homework, and I hear H yelling at him in the background to just "do it". He does not sit down with him and help him or guide him. I end up helping him over the phone.

On the plus side, the school has a "building stronger families" program. H has agreed to attend. Now, he is trying to get out of it, but I told him he agreed, we are signed up. We have to attend, and that it will be good for the kids.

Hi, Sue:

Wow! Reading over your last post about your relationship also made me wonder why you want to be married to this man. There has to be more there. What are the admirable qualities about him that made you fall in love with him? Also, why does he not want to be seen with you? Does he not want anyone to know he is married? Do you not meet his definition of an AS?

It sounds like your H is very selfish -- he wants to do what he wants to do, when he wants to do it and it does not matter what anyone else wants or needs: his needs come first. This is a really bad role model for your kids to grow up seeing. I only hope and pray that your H will get a little less foggy and realize that counseling could really help. Good that you are getting him to attend "Building Better Families". Maybe something will show him that he is not being a good role model for his kids.

Keep studying.

FHO

It seems like he's been in withdrawal for a long time. You have been very patient and tirelessly acted for the best interest of the family. You seem to be very strong, hardworking and patient and deserve a husband who apprecites you and loves you for all you do.

I think what you are doing is exactly right. After 8 more months you will be in a position to decide whether you want to go to plan B.

- relate

He was not like this in the beginning. We met about 10 or 11 years ago, the first 3 years or so, were good. He changed after I second child was born. When our 2nd child was 6 months old, he left. He had met her about a month or two before he left. He went to live with a friend. Then they got a place together.(this I did not know about until after we got married). About 6 months after he left, I saw the old H back. I didn't trust it would last, so I refused to get back together until I was sure all was well again. It took me 2 years to take him back, and even then I refused to until we were married. He wanted to live together, I said not unless we are married. For about a year, things were okay, then slowly I saw the "Yucky" H come back.

The man I first met was thoughtful, considerate, repectful. He helped around the house. When I got pregnant with our first son, he was with at most of the appt. He worried that I was overdoing things, he insisted I quit my second job I was working at the time. He didn't want me to over do it. (I couldn't quit the job at that time, he was in school and we needed the income to support all of us, so I cut back on hours). I was at his ballgames, after our son was born, the first night home from the hosp, he took me out to dinner at a nice restuarant. He finished school that year. I quit the second job and worked one job. He helped take care of him, took him places. We were at his ball games, H played coached hockey that year with his uncle, we were at the games. 6 months later I got pregnant again. (not trying. each pregnancy was a failed birthcontrol, just my luck). By the time son #2 was born, H was withdrawn, not helping, leaving messes, spending money we could not afford. When I saw some of the old H back, I thought that maybe it was some sort of phase he was going through and he was over it. You know, the responsibility of 2 children one right after the other. I though maybe he was over it. When he started taking me out again, I approached it cautionsly. I didn't want to set myself up. That is why I would not take him back for a while and I would not live with him unless we were married. These days, he goes back and forth between the good H and the bad H. (I dont' know how to refer to it.) He is not as bad as he was, but he not as good as he used to be.

I'm hoping that this group we are partcipating in, may help him see what makes a healthy family. I try to keep in mind, he didn't have much for role models in his growing up. He is a far cry better than his own father was. Mom divorced dad when he was young. Dad was abusive. Visitations were irratic, and when they did visit, dad took him to a bar because dad was involved in dart tournaments, cribbage tournaments, and would not give up one game for his visitation time. Mom, would leave H to look after his younger brother, and she was not home much. Usually at some church group. He said that he didn't have much in the line of adult supervision. No one made him do his homework, no one was home to prepare dinner. Usually fixed ahead of time in a crockpot. He would come home from school fix himself a plate and sit down infront of the TV. In some ways, we have made progress. He is seeing the value of being home, but in his mind, it is okay for him to take off when he wants with no regard for me.

Sometimes I think it is hopeless. But, I won't dwell on that right now. I have to get through school. If my M does not work, I need to be able to support my children. I cannot do it on my current income.

Dear Sue,

I thought a lot about your story... it seems that sometimes in life there is just nothing that we can do. You write that your H changes between the "good" and "bad" personalities. It made me feel really helpless, too, when I saw this change just once in my H. It is just not fair when the most important person in one's life acts like that.

You have been through a lot more than me...my heart goes out to you. Keep up the trying to work on your M for the next months until you are free to make a decision.

But listen, girl, instead of posting here (and I always love to hear from you, especially construction worker stories...)- hit the books!!! Next time we want to celebrate an A in your tests. O.K.?

And wow...I finally figured out how to get an email account. If you want to email me: iceprincessmail@yahoo.com.

All the best

I think it is a good idea to get him involved with the children. When you have the time again, perhaps try again to get him involved in a joint interest and spend time alone together. Maybe this is the general ebb and flow of marriage. The only worry is the long term OW. Is she not married?

You are doing all the right things. I am learning from you.

- relate

OW is not married. She lives at home with her parents. If I'm correct on her age, she is 28. (A little old to be living at home). This has me wondering, is there an OC???????? Is that the connection??????????.

Today was a little better. Last night, H was up when I got home. He wants to know if I can get time off to go to Hawaii (I don't know where the money will come from). I told him I'd love to go, but I don't know if I can get the time off of work. If we did go, it would have to be inbetween semesters. If he wanted to be real nice, he could make it a graduation present. Yes, I might be out of vacation, but If we planned it right, we could save $$ to make up for the unpaid week I'd be gone and we could put in so we went after I quit this job and before I start a new one.

He left this morning for Colorado. fishing trip (I don't know if she is with or not.) He did an odd thing, he hugged me. He does not do that.

Okay, here comes a bitter thought, I'm allowed one per week. Is he trying to give me a nice trip before he leaves (guilt on his part). Okay, bitterness gone now. I'm sure this is not it. As we know as BS's, we have a hard time trusting their motives when they are nice. I accept them when it happens. Maybe it is because he wants me to mow the lawn while he is gone. OOPs, did I mess up and have another bitter thought. I guess that means I can't have any next week.LOL

Wow,

Thanks for all the information on the past. In a way it is really scary. I know that as a BS I hated the "bad" H. I can remember just about the time he changed. It was so weird -- he just wasn't the same person any more.

What makes them change? I really struggle with this question. It's probably a chicken-egg thing. Did they meet the OP first and then change or did they change and that allowed what happened with the OP? I really don't believe the answer that they had the A because some of their needs were unmet. After all, there are a whole group of us BSs out here struggling all the time with some of our needs being unmet and we didn't run off and have an A. And I don't really believe that it is because of lack of opportunity. There is always the opportunity to go down that path if you want.

I guess the reason the "bad" S -- H or W -- is a scary concept is that until you really figure out what makes them turn in Mr. Hyde, you won't know how to prevent it. Therefore, you are never safe. I know that there are some ways to help prevent Mr. Hyde (understanding S's ENs and meeting them) but they are not foolproof. I know that during my H's Mr. Hyde days, I wasn't doing a terrible job of meeting his needs -- I just became a little proccupied with pursuing something I wanted to do (my law school). It wasn't even for that long of a time -- I was busy for a couple of months. That was all he needed to become Mr. Hyde. That is very scary to me. So, basically, if I ever take my eye off the ball in the future, if I slip, if I make a mistake, I could have to relive all of this? This really depresses me. I know I am not perfect.

In your case it seems your H bounces back and forth between "good" H and "bad" H. Why??????????? What is the trigger?????????? Issues that he has to work through????? It is really puzzling.

I think the Hawaii trip is a great idea. You shoul do it. I know that sometimes $$ are an issue and I think most of us tend to put off this type of fun stuff. However, this fun stuff is what brings us closer together. It makes memories that we need to get through the rough stuff. Also, I hear Hawaii is spectacularly beautiful (I have never been and will envy you the trip).

Well, as you can see from above, I don't have any answers or insight for you. I still have a lot of questions myself and your story makes me have more. I wonder whether my H will go back to Mr. Hyde some day. Prior to D-day, if I had to bet, I would have bet me life that my H was too wonderful, caring, understanding and had too much integrity to ever have an A. Well, if I had, I would now not be writing this -- ha, ha. I guess right now I am making that same bet again.

Hang in there. Hope things are going well with school. Sorry about the test.

FHO

If we do get to go to Hawaii, I want to go in the winter, get away from the subzero stuff for a week. With our luck it will be like when we went to Vegas to get Married. We got married in December. Vegas, they said is usually 60 - 70 weather in December. When we were there, 40's. So, I figure, Hawaii will have it a snowfall. LOL. Honestly, I would like to wait until I finish school. It would make a great graduation present. But, it will be hard to go in the winter, if it is a graduation present (graduate in May). HMMMM Have to think about this one. H did acknowledge one thing, so I guess sometimes he does hear me. When he brought up Hawaii, he said, I know, you don't want to go until you get back in shape. Once he mentioned a cruise, and I said, I want to be thin before I go on something like that. (gotta have new clothes for the trip) (okay, I dont' have to have new clothes, I want new clothes) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[ September 17, 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

H booked a vacation for August in Wisconsin. I like visiting Wisconsin. Nice state. "but I wouldn't want to live there" LOL, too many people who wear those funny looking triangle orange hats with holes in them LOL. Sorry, could not resist throwing that in.

H washed dishes last night. For some of you, this might not seem like much. For me it is a major big deal. I work full time at night, go to school part time during the day. I don't have much time to spend keeping the house clean. I do my best, but I figure, he can help.

Coming home at midnight and finding the dishes washed, the counter cleaned was a huge deposit in my Love Bank. (he missed the stove and table, but who was noticing, not I, okay I did, but I'm not saying anything)

Nice for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You two are going well. I'm sure it is the normal ebb and flow of marriage, with the added stress of your being so busy. I have a good feeling that by the time you finish your studies, and your financial situation and availability improves, things will work out well between you two.

- relate

[ October 06, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: relate ]

Hi, Sue!

You'll have fun in Wisconsin. Regarding the cruise, you shouldn't put those things off waiting for something in the future. Go have fun now, who cares if you are in shape or not -- you don't have to prance around the ship in a string bikini (in reality only supermodels and those under 22 should be wearing them anyway).

Glad your H did the dishes! Anything helps, right.

Keep counting down the days till May -- it really isn't all that far away.

FHO

More good news about me. Had another Nursing test. (This is the class where I failed the first test.) I passed the second test. The two tests combined brought my total score to just above passing - (I need a hahooooooo icon).

H took me and the kids out to dinner (sort of dinner) last night. Normally I don't agree to taking the kids to sports bars, but this one typically has families in it. H wanted to watch the ball game. There I am, studying while him and the boys were watching the game. D was with grandma. Normally, he goes alone, or so he says he is alone.

I hope this is not wishful thinking, but his attitude seems different. I'm wondering if it is over with them? I will know, when and if I decide to go snooping. Can't snoop right now. Don't want it to interfer with school

Relate and FHO - thanks I hope you guys are right

Dear Sue:

don't snoop! Enjoy the time together. I'm sure that deposits love units in his bank as well!

Glad to hear you guys are doing better. Many times actions say more than words.

Congratulations on the passing score! Keep up the good work! Remember: short posts at MB and more time studying...o.k.? You can do it! Your frinds here at MB are proud of you-right guys?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<<<Hugs>>>

Sue,

Congrats on the test -- way to go!!!!!!

Great that your H invited you to go with him. Liza is right about the LB$. Keep remembering the positive -- you each got to do things you wanted: he wanted to watch the game and you wanted (in reality probably had to) to study, so everything worked out.

Keep up the good work.

FHO

Thanks - how is that for short

Here I sit balancing the checkbook (H knows we are running the budge tight) and what do I see, a charge on the debit card for Dammon's resturaunt for 51 dollars. Now, I know that it does not cost 51 dollars for one to eat at Damons. This charge was for last Tuesday. Golly gee, his brother was in Australia, so I know he didn't go out with him. His mom had the kids that evening, so who could he have been with. This makes me the maddest. I am not dating her, so he does not have the right to spend my money on her!!!!!!!! I honestly thought that maybe it was over. I know he did not go with anyone else, if he had he would have said something to me. This is also the night he went to watch the Twins play in the playoffs. Did she buy the tickets, that he claimed he got from a friend who could not go.

Okay, I will be reasonable, lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Lets say, he paid for dinner at Damon's and his friend (not her), paid for the tickets for the game. That does not explain why he did not say anything to me. I find charges like this all the time on the bank statement. At least 2x per month. H makes many cash withdrawals.

Confronting him about it and interrogating him to find who went with him would bust your plan A.

Perhaps you could just mention that you've noticed some extra charges, and very lovingly ask that, since 'our' family is on a tight budget, would he consider gradually reducing these expenses.

Hi Relate,
I'll try that. So far I have not said anything

I know this does not apply to my topic -

Had another test today. It was grueling. The subject was Mental Health.

I PASSED with an 85%. Where is the dancing icon, so instead I will use <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Two more to go.

two more papers to write

Came to LB.

H calls me, ready to strangle the kids (figure of speech). He says he does not want to be a dad anymore. (frustration)

So, I ask what happened? He had class tonight (requirement to keep his license). His mom was watching the kids. He comes home and finds spilled pop in the kids room, empty pop cans all over the house, a chewed eraser on the floor, winter coats on the floor (i guess I have new rugs), kids not listening, potato chip bag in the living room and he says there is more. I wanted to scream - welcome to my world. Now you know how I feel when I come home to a sink full of dishes, stuff all over the floors, clothes I just folded and told the kids and you to put away all over the house, a path of clothes from starting point to ending point as the items are removed from the body. (MIL watched kids, she thinks I am too harsh to give my kids responsibility such as cleaning up after themselves, so when she watches them the house is trashed even worse than when H is home. I will give him credit, he does make them clean up behind themselves, now if H could do the same after himself, we would have real progress). Instead of saying what I wanted to , I said "I know it is frustrating to come home to this. I fully understand. I also said I will not say it again about what happens when certain individuals watch the kids). I think she needs to watch them at her house. He knew what I was hinting at.

Anyway, had to vent so I didn't vent to H about "now you know what I go through"

I think I like 2nd shift - just kidding) I miss not being home with my family

Today is a very bad day. I just wanted to vent that.

[ November 01, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

What happened? From what I gather, are you away from him and the children at the moment? Where?

Hi Relate,

I live at home with H and kids. It was just a very bad day. My #1s calls me at work, crying. H was yelling at him in the background. We have S in counseling because he has some eating issues. We have a plan we are working on. H does not follow the agreed upon plan. His excuse is, I don't know what we are supposed to do. I tell him what was decided. H will not come to appt and participate, I have made the appt the first on, the last one, in the middle of the day, anything to try and make in easy for H to attend. After each appt I tell H how it went and what was agreed upon as the next step. H is not following the agreed upon step, so S does not do his part either, it ends up being a big fight between them. H has some controlling tendencies. Not severe, he cannot control me, so he does not try. He tries to control the kids, but their personalities are such that they cannot be controled. H threatened to kick S out (he's 9). I told H he cannot talk that way to S. H said he did not want to be a father anymore. H is a conflict avoider. His mom is a conflict avoider, his brother is a conflict avoider. Anytime things get rough H wants to bail. I know in H's growing up, with his dad, if you din't do things H's dad's way, he does not talk to you. H's mom is a little better. Except she will kick you out. She kicked H out when he was 15 because she did not like his girlfriend. She admits to it to this day. The only reason why she did not like this girl is because this girl lived near H's mom sister. H's mom sister is overly opinionated and critical of everyone. She one time yelled at this girl because she was walking past her house. (At the time, H's aunt was having some mental issues. She has been diagnosed with depression and paronoid). H's aunt was convinced the only reason this girl was dating H was to bug the aunt. The only place for him to go was to dad's who lived above a bar that hookers worked out of. My In laws are weird. I gave you this info, so you can understand where my H is coming from. So, he was raised with controlling and manipulative behavior, so he tries to be controlling and manipulative. I refuse to be controlled or manipulated, I had the biggest influence on my kids, and they have the personalities where they cannot be controlled or manipulated. I don't think H would be physically abusive. If he did, he knows I would not hesitate to take care of that. The kids would tell me. Once, my H made the mistake of telling our oldest that he was going to cut off his hands if he messed with the lock on the door again. H over reacted. I'm home on maternity leave, kids were on Christmas break. Son is 5 at the time. H turned the lock on the bedroom door and pulled the door shut. I could not jimmy the door open, so I was stuck in my Pj's all day. No big deal. I didn't have anywhere to go. H gets home, I ask him to open the door. He yells at S and tells him if he does it again he will cut his hands off. S asks how? H says with a saw S looked a littled scared. I immediately told H he cannot talk that way to him. H tried to justify it by saying he didn't mean it, but he wanted to get his point across. So I said to H, you got your point across. Now, say son tells a classmate or his teacher what you said. The classmate tells his mom, his mom calls police or the school. Now we have the county knocking on our door wanting to know what is going on. It does not matter that you didn't mean it, it matters that you said it and it is called verbal abuse. To my knowledge, he has not talked that way to S except this past incident.

H's family to outsiders come across as very loving and supportive. Once you are in, then you see the real picture. His family always critisizes my family. My family is very close and loving. They have even referred to us as a clan. We do alot together, my sisters are always there for each other. H's family has had the attitude that because H and I are married, I know longer have a family that I came from. I should have all my involvments with H's family and ignore my family. (That didn't last long, I made if clear that I came from a very good family)

Anyway, that is why I was having a very bad day.

#1S is a good boy and I want to keep him that way. He is smart, he does not see it. He is loving and generous, helpful. He thinks his father does not love him. He will not talk to him, not like he does me. He thinks he can't talk to him.

I thought things were goint to start to improve.

I don't think things will every improve. If it comes to it, and i have to choose between H and son, son will win. Right now I am soooooooooooooooooooo maaaaaadddddddddddddddddddd at H I could scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

He is back at yelling at #1S. H is does not get it. S wants to do well, he puts so much pressure on himself that he gets so frustrated when he does not get it. H, only yells at him and make it worse. I don't know what to do. I have to figure something out. S needs space from H. H is slowly destroying him. I will post more later. I have to vent this.

When I finish school, I am filing for Divorce. There is no working this out!!!!!!

I thought things were getting better. He tell me he is going to Las Vegas with some event sponsored by a local radio station here. I was not in favor of it. I was wondering if she was going because, he did not take any money out of the account. He claims he has another account somewhere. She works in a Credit Union. So, I called the hotel my H is staying at. I asked to be connected to her room. Guess what, they rang her room. I had to know. After all, I have been 2 years without a dryer, and he goes to Vegas with her. This is UNFORGIVABLE. Now, I have to start making plans for who will watch the kids while I work.

Last night I called up H and left him a message in the hotel room. He calls me this morning, I didn't hear the phone ring. He left me two messages. He was trying to be mad, he was not mad, he was nervous. Afraid that I will bust him. He claims that he is mad because they have a bet on how many times I will call. He says his nickname is "short lease" because I keep him on a short lease. THAT IS BULL****. He does what he wants, when he wants with no regard to me or the kids. Most "family" men do not go on ski trips once a year, fishing trips once a year, miscellaneous weekend trips.

He claims he said, that I was not supposed to call him unless there was something wrong with one of the kids. We never discussed it, and I would never have agreed to it. Who does he think he is to tell me what to do.

He is destroying my family, my kids. I wonder if this has been going on our whole marriage. What kind of woman stays in this kind of relationship. I'm so glad she is having fun at the expense of my kids. That 600+ dollars that he is spending out there, could have boughten me a new dryer, a new dishwasher, some new clothes. Could have paid off a bill, there is many different ways I could have applied that money to benefit the family. Well, he wants to be a free and single man, he can be a free and single man, he can have the child support payment and the weekend visits that goes along with it. I on the other hand, once I am divorced will go and find a real man, not some small boy is a mans body.

Now, to implement this. Who can watch the kids so I can finish school? If I wait until I graduate, who will watch the kids when I work the off shifts, because I will be. There are very few straight day shift these days.

No one wants to move in to help with the kids. I figure I will try to get a straight 3rd shift, when I leave for work, they will be in bed. I will have put them to bed. All I need is someone to be there during the nighttime hours, to get them up and maybe off to school. I will make sure all is ready for them. I have to get this figured out. I cannot stay with this man any longer than necessary. It will be one year this April since I made this discovery, or should I say confirmation.

Well, my oldest son this morning asked me to divorce his dad.

I was telling them that their dad will be home on Saturday. And wanted to know if they were looking forward to it. Son #2, didn't care, D, she adores daddy, and Son #1, says "why don't you divorce him" He loves and hates his father at the same time. Boy, what a thing to deal with.

I am going to see if H will at least attend family counseling. Maybe he can at least improve his R with his son. If it is not too late.

Sue,
I don't know if I can help much, but wanted you to know that someone is reading your thread, and cares. I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling. I am sorry for the work you must do with no help or support from H.

Keep helping the children, keep improving yourself, someday you will get the payback, so don't give up.( I know you won't but wanted to encourage you.)

One of the tools I use to overcome the problems is to pretend. I just pretend things are better, and I pretend that I can really cope when I feel I am falling apart, and I pretend that tomorrow will be better even though I have no hope that it will be. After a time, I notice things are not so bad, and I really do feel better.

Note, don't pretend you have $100.00 in your wallet when you don't, the stores don't think it's funny.

Keep trying, don't give up.
SS

SS,

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I will give it a try. At least for a little while. A time will come where I will have to make a decision. I think this went one before I decided to go back to school, so I know my going to school was not part of the issue. I think this has been going on for as long as we have been married or close to it.

Our 5th anniversary is coming up in December. All I have ever wanted for a present was an anniversary ring. I never had an engagement ring. If he gave me that, I would have believed he thought I was special and I mattered. Whenever I bring it up, he blows me off, or ignores me. Our first anniverary, he forgot, he added insult to injury by grabbing a christmas present he bought for me and put the kids name on it (an electric can opener). Then he went and played hockey instead of staying home with me. Our second anniversay, he was out of town, Working out of town, he managed to call. He did come home for christmas and new years. Our 3rd anniversay, I don't even remember, maybe he made me a nice dinner. Last year, he took me out, to a quick place to eat, then we had to get back because he was supposed to meet some people on line for a raid (he plays Everquest)(I will refrain from stating my opinion about that). He had just gone back to work after being laid off since October, so we decided no gifts that year. After the first one, I could not get into our anniversary, so I had troubles getting past buying him a card.

I know some of what I do does not help things with us, such as, he keeps wondering when I will fix his jacket, (needs a new zipper) but I will find time to sew for the kids (or I used to). I have trouble doing anything in the sewing area for him because the fathers day that he became a daddy to our second son, I made him and the boys matching zubbas and tank tops. (I know, sounds corney). But I put alot of thougth into this. I started in back in February when I was on maternity leave with our second child. (he had already met OW). He did not like the gift. After that it took me awhile to even enjoy sewing for my kids. Now, I take pride in what I sew for the kids, however, I still have a hard time bring myself to sew for him, even if it means fixing a zipper. (I have not had time to sew for the kids since school I went back to school). I made their Halloween costumes every years since my oldest was a baby, I made my D's babtism dress. I made some of my maternity clothes. I used to love to cook, and I dont' mean meatloaf and stuff like that. Once a week, I used to find a really nice dish to prepare, (I like the Frugal Gormet cooking with wine) he started critisizing my cooking, so now, I have very little desire to cook past the basics, what can I prepare in the shortest amount of time.

He has to destroy everthing around him.

Hold on - phone ringing

I'm back, it was H. I had to call and leave him a message about I forget what now, I recall, while I was talking, the ring issue crossed my mind, so my voice started to break up. So, I told him how important it means to me, and how it effects me when he takes these trips and has no desire to take me. (I probably shouldn't have). Well, I think it made him feel guilty. Not my intent. I truly didn't mean to say anything. He says that we can go to vegas in December. I know he was thinking our anniversary. I have a final on our anniversay. Nothing I can do about that.

How can I stop crying over this. I need to. He will be home tomorrow afternoon. I cannot let him see me this way. He just called a little bit ago, and said I sounded down. I used the excuse that I have a sinus infection (which I do). But, as I tell you this I makes me cry. It brings back all the hurt I am feeling. I need to get things under control.

Does a drunken stupor help-probably not. Besides, when I am drunk I say what is on my mind, so not the wisest course of action in trying to forget. I also hate the hangovers, and taking care of kids while on a hangover is no fun. So, I guess I will just have to find a way to manage. I also believe that H's brother knows.

I won't get drunk. I feel to ill to stomach the booze.

I thougth things were improving. How could I be so blind. HOw? how? how?

Well, H got back from his vacation. I can tell by his voice when he lies. It sounds, unsure. It took me a long time to distingquish this.

Anyway, it hurts alot to know that this has been going on for most of my marriage if not all. A fomrer neighbor told me that he was seen by her husband and kids many times making phone calls from the store nearby (before H had a cell phone). She told me it was before the store closed down. The store closed down about 6 - 9 months after we moved into the house. We bought the house about 6 months after we were married.

I used to wonder why he spent alot of time downtown. Now I know. I wonder why she went from retail sales to working in a credit union. She was a manager in sales. She could get a manager job anytime.

I was so stupid to have even considered marrying him. I wanted so much to beleive that once we were married, that he was ready to make a committment. I don't think if ever ended. So, if that is the case, how could this be because of me not meeting his needs. If I was not meeting them before the marriage, why marry me, unless it was because of the kids?

I hope i can make it until May. I don't know if that is possible. I do love him.

I am going to see if he will go to one of the marriage builder seminars, but I'm not counting on it.

Hi Sue,
I hope you don't mind if I ramble for a few lines. I just finished reading this thread and sometimes it helps not to go right along and read every few days.
First, It really does look like your H is living a double life. It looks like he has come to terms with it and he is happy and thinks you don't have a clue. Some of the things he does are too blatant for someone that is being careful and trying to hide stuff. The Las Vegas trip is a dead giveaway, and I can't believe he thinks he is hiding things from you.

I can see improvement in you but I can also see that his behavior is starting take it's toll on you. You are starting to withdraw and you don't want to meet his needs because he has taken away from you one of the most precious things a marriage is supposed to have. Actually he has taken away love, trust, friendship, financial support ( in part) and recreational companionship - and that is just with my skimming the thread. I can see where you would get tired of it, it shouldn't be this way. I can also see you are wanting love and you want someone to meet your needs, and I recommend you be careful with your feelings until this is over with.

You have a lot of hope, ( I like your name, BTW.) Some days you just want to be done with it, but most days you hold out hope that something will change him and he will be the kind of H he should be.

My feeling is that he won't change without some kind of shock ( plan B, or D,) and even then it will take a long time for him to learn and change enough for him to be the companion you are looking for. I believe it would take him 3 to 5 years if he was fully committed to making the changes.

His family supports him? It sounds like he can do no wrong to them. If you do ever file, I recommend hiring a PI and getting a film and if they get ugly, send a copy to them. In fact, it would be a good way to go to plan B. Sit on the couch and start the tape and then hand him the plan B letter and walk out.

I know you have been working on your M and you will continue to do so, I think the world of you for your commitment and the work you have done. I may be wrong in some of my observations but for him to continue to meet her weekly, and go on a trip to LV with her, I think he is secure in his other life, and happy and thinks he can go on for a long time with it. I don't think talking to him or goint to a MB weekend will help him, he has been doing it for too long.

I know you post all around the forum, I really haven't read everything you post, but I know you asked at least once about choosing a lawyer. I recommend you get one and find out all your options. You may not need to use them, but if you do, knowledge is power.

I am sorry you are in the middle of his problems, I wish you were out of school and could call the shots now. I hope you can continue to cope with the bad parts. When I first posted I hadn't read your whole story, but now that I have I think it still applies. If you can't make it, pretend until you can, and keep going on. You are a very brave person and I admire your courage and strength. I believe in you, and I know you do also or you would have quit by now. Thank you for your post, it helps me continue to believe in the strength of the human spirit. The other thing that I rely on is prayer, I hope it works for you also. I will pray for you.
May God bless you to be happy in the end, no matter what.
SS

SS,
Thanks for your kind words. I have tried pretending, and so far it has helped.

I know what I know, at times it seems like a dream. Especially when he is here. He acts like all is okay.

Did I mention that when we got married, I went without the engagement ring. For the last five years I've been telling him that I want one. His response was I need a dryer more than I need a ring. I need a dryer more than he needed to go to Las Vegas.

I will inquire into the PI route. If anything, I don't want him to try to lie his way out of it, which is what he will try to do. This way he can't.

After re-reading what I posted to you it sounds kind of negative. I didn't mean to do that but I really feel that it will take a real shock to wake him up, if in fact he can be reached.

I believe you can still have hope. You are a wonderful person, I don't believe this one was caused by a failure to meet needs. I hope you are not blaming yourself for his failures. You have good goals, you are working to meet them. You are a good mother, and have been a good wife. I hope you can get to the end of your schooling and at least have that part of your life go well.

Can you tell us your thoughts and plans for your M? What would you like to see happen? What direction are you going to go with things?

SS

Hi SS,

You only voiced things I have considered myself. I wonder if he is so insecure with himself, that he needs to always have more than one person to reaffirm that he is lovable. (just in case the other walks)

He has always had those that are suppose to love you put conditions on that love, such as his father. I've seen his mom do it on an occasion

My wish list for my marriage

To have an H (preferably the current H) who loves me, treats me as if I am special, shows me respect, puts me and my needs and wants before his own. Puts the needs and wants of the kids before his own.

I want him to put my happiness as a priority.

I want him to get rid of OW for good.

I want him to prioritize what is important and take care of it.

I want to be able to trust him with my thoughts, feeling, even my most weakest, most vulnerable thoughts and feelings without fear of humilation or contempt.

I know there have been time I probably could have taken care of his needs better at times. It is difficult to do when it is mostly one sided.

I want him to be reasonable.

We use to have a good life. I remember when he thought I was worth a nice diamond ring. The materialist aspect of the ring is not what matters to me, it is the thougth of it. When we first became engaged, about 8 years ago, he put on layaway a ring he could not afford. I felt so special because of that. He was layed off, and needed the money for bills, He asked me if it was okay. I said yes. It did not change that we were engaged.

Before the birth of our second child, he bought me a really nice pair of earrings and perfume.

He used to give me roses.

Now, I get appliances that I do not use. I never wanted a rotisserie (spelling unsure), or an ice cream maker, or a short order cook (grill).

I want to feel loved. I want to be told I am loved. I want to know I matter. I want to feel like I matter.

What am I going to do. What can I do. I really don't want a divorce. I did call a couple of them. Beleive it or not, they both suggested that if that is the only reason I am considering a divorce is his infidelity, that we try to resolve the issue. That many couples have had happy relationship after an affair. Which I know that, after all, look at the recovery site.

This has been going on since my marriage, or maybe longer. I don't know how to handle that.

Right now, I will plan A, until I finish school. I have no other choice. I will concentrate on school. Maybe by the time I am done, things will be better. If not, then I will have to move to plan B/probably D.

I really want to know why? Am i right, that this affair never ended. Even when I thought it was over, and we got married, did it never end? If that is so, why did he marry me? Did he ever love me? What kind of woman stays in this sort of relationship? Is this why he keeps his life of with his friends seperate from me? Do they know about her? She lives with her parents, what do they know? Don't they question her dating a mand for as long as they have and it has not progressed further? So many questions, no anwsers. Probably never will have answers.

Thanks for listening. I don't think he will ever go to counseling.

Hi SS,

Yes again. Thanks for your kinds words. I know I don't see myself as couragous. I just do what I have to do. I do pray alot. Sometimes, (I'd like to beleive that god is an understanding god and forgives me for some of my outburst when I am at my lowest). There are times I yell at him (I do apologize, after all, it is not his fault). Once I foolishly asked him to take me. Then I realized how dramatic it was. I will get through this. After all, if I am gone, who will take care of my children. Surely not OW. It takes a lot of patience to deal with my oldest. Okay, it takes alot of patience to deal with all my kids. Each one has their own personality. Maybe I am a little too permissive in allowing them to be themselves, but I don't want them to be stiffled as I was growing up. "children should be seen and not heard" When we got excited, my dad would yell at us to quiet down. I want my children to be able to express themeselves openly and honestly. I don't know if anyone else can have the patience for that. I have been critisized for allowing my children to behave as they do. Let them.

I may have LB'd my H on the phone today, but, his response was uncalled for. All I said was "why are you so mean to me lately?" Maybe that is not being mean. As of late, he has been very rude and insulting. Each time, I remind him that I do not treat him that way.

I hope and pray that tomorrow will be different. That tomorrow he will end it with her. That he will want a future with me. That he will go to counseling.

I dont' want my son's or daughter going through what I go through right now or to treat others the way I am being treated. I hope my influence will have a more powerful impact on them.

My middle child, who usually does not want hugs or kisses, has been wanting them from me.

Last week, my sister picked them up from school and took care of them until I finished work. I left early, I was feeling ill. I think some of it was because of this whole situation. Anyway, her son had a hockey game. She took my kids to the arena. When I got there, my middle child, had the biggest smile on his face when he saw me and came up to me and hugged me. It was the best.

I wonder, am I doing right by them, trying to make this marriage work? Am I hurting them more by staying? I don't know. All my friends think so. But then again, they are not in this sort of R. They have good Husbands or they are not married.

One of my friends, he H is in the same union as my H. They have never worked together. I hope they don't ever get the chance either. He would be my H's boss if they did. And I think he would give my H all the crappiest assignments. She told me today, that she has told him. She said not to worry, he will not repeat it. He want to hit my H for being a jerk. (Not what I call an appropriate response. I only met her H once. Seems like a very nice man).

I remember when my H loved me so much, he wanted me around his friends. He could not wait to introduce me to them. Now, he wants to keep me away from them. We have been married 5 years this december, had our house for 4 years this past May. Not once has he invited his friends over. He goes to their homes, without me.

He plays on a Monday night softball team in the summer. I am not allowed to go. I can go to the Tuesday or Sunday team (of course my neighbor would tell my H off if he forbade me from coming to the sunday games). This will be a big LB, but if we can find some way to resolve things, one of them will be no more forbidding my attending any games. If he does, he has to give up the team or else. He used to or maybe still does brings her to this game.

I am calmer now or at least for now.

Hi Sue,
I've been reading your thread for a while.
You struck my chord by wondering if you do your children any good by staying and hoping for the A to end.
I wish I knew.
Yesterday I felt calm and capable of carrying on despite recent events/nonevents.
Tonight I don't know. I don't want to shut myself out behind the wall even though this approach would probably buy me time of H being relatively pleasant while he stays home.
But this is no long term solution.
Right now I am not sure what I should do. He does not want to be with me yet he returns. But he does not want to have anything other than a basic contact with me. I am at total loss how to "get to him", to assure him that he can talk to me- there is really not much else to say that would hurt me more that I know already. Why is he back? Does he have any glimmer of hope for us? Is it just unconvenient time for him to leave so he's just coasting? If he still hesitates what to do why he rejects all my verbal and "action" approaches, regardless of its subjects. He will not let me fill any EN. If he's sure he wants OW why he returned after I told him if he'd rather be with her, he should not come back from this trip.
No matter how much I tried to keep my hopes in check I am hit really hard. He hugs and talks to kids like there is no problem. Yet he lives in OW timezone. I can't seem to find five minutes when we are not at work or he's not on the computer or not sleeping. I breathe deep before I approach him with any question (and those are not R subjects), and remain upbeat no matter what but I just not know if this is good example I give to my kids.
I know I can provide physically for them and me. I don't know how they would cope emotionally if he would move overseas.
I want to spend my energy for building better future and fixing my problems, not on coasting and keeping a smiling face in front of everybody.
Did he notice I did not confide in anybody close to him ( family or friends or kids) so he has unpressured choice and that I valued his honesty even if the truth was so painful to me.
I don't think I have enough trust remaining even for daily life. I suspect the worst. I feel guilty for my mind's scenarios. But I don't know what to make out the current situation. He only say's I don't know, Leave me alone, I will manage somehow, no matter what's the subject. It's not withdrawal since he is in long distance contact with OW and most probably just returned after spending a week with her in person.

Anyway, I feel calmer "for now". Sorry for hijacking your thread. Guess got the urge to vent.
FBOW

Hi Forbetter,

You didn't hijack my thread. You can relate to what I am feeling. I know, it is hard being in this predicatment. What is hardest for me, is the waiting it out. I am not used to keepin my mouth shut. I want to confront him. I want him to make a choice, I want to tell him exactly how his actions has hurt me, how I hate the way he tries to control me. I want to tell him to get help for his insecurities, I want to tell him, that he cannot have her for a friend. That there is no room for her at all in our M. If he brings up the stupid timeshare, I want to tell him that until it is paid for all communication will be done through me, or we buy her out, or she buys us out. Keeping things bottled up, is not natural for me. I am not comfortable with indecision. I hate being in limbo. Right or wrong, at least I made a decision.

The last time he cheated and walked out, him mother disowned him. She will probably do it again. She has no tolerance for infidelity. H's dad cheated on MIL. H's dad used to beat her because he could. 30 years later H's dad blames H's mom for his bad credit.

To my H's credit, he was willing to go to church last Sunday. I was sick, so he let me sleep. He was also willing to go to "building strong families", kids were sick, so we didn't go to that either.

What would make you happy? When my H walked out on me when my 8 year old was 6 months old, I begged, cried, you name it to try to get him to come back. After about 6 months, I stopped, and decided it was time to move on. Then he came around. He saw he was losing me. And he was.

I had decided that it was time to take my life back and live it for me and the kids. I wish i could do that now. And if he decides he wants to be part of it, then he will have to let me know.

I have to go. H just called. He is sick and on his way home. I have to call daycare and tell her that D is not coming over. H said to keep her home. Have to call school and tell them to not put the boys on the bus. H said he will pick them up from school. (We have made improvements in this area. In the past, H would not have done this. Anything to have the kids out of his hair).

Sue, I hope you have a happy thanksgiving, I have some more to say but it may take me some time.

Ss

Hi Sue,
I read the last page over again. I can see the hurt in some of what you say, but I can see strength also. As bad as you feel, you keep going the right direction, and to me it looks like your heart is right.
I hope you don't mind if I comment on a few things.

I was so stupid to have even considered marrying him.
It's easy to look back and say things like this, and it probably would have made your life easier to have found someone nicer and more faithful. The bottom line is that we don't know at the time. You didn't know. You had faith in him, and he let you down, please don't blame yourself. I hate to see you gals that are trying so hard berate yourself for past decisions.

Does a drunken stupor help-probably not.
It really doesn't help if you are trying to get ahead and improve yourself. I think you already know that, but it is an indicator of your pain if you want it to go away this badly that you speak of this method to do it.

I hope i can make it until May. I don't know if that is possible. I do love him.
Boy, does this one sentence really say a lot. Your hopes that you can do all the thousands of things you have to do between now and May, your fears that you cannot, or that you will fail somehow, and an affirmation of why you are still trying. I believe in you, I believe that if you can have still have these feelings after what he has done, you have what it takes to succeed and last until May. I wish there were an easier way, but I can't see one. I do believe you will be able to hang on.

I really want to know why?
Some things there are no good answers for. Most of the BS's ask " what did I do?" or, "what did I fail to do?". Sometimes their are real .....well, not reasons, but real problems that helped contribute. In your case, if he continued from before your M, I would lay the whole problem on him. I wish you had known then what you know now, and you wish the same, but we really can't go back. If you are the person I believe you to be, you will continue to go foreword.

What kind of woman stays in this sort of relationship?
You already know the answer to that one.

Is this why he keeps his life of with his friends separate from me?
Yes, I believe it fits with someone that lives dual lives. That's another reason I believe it will be hard for him to stop. He has created two different worlds, and he is used to it being that way now.

I know I don't see myself as courageous. I just do what I have to do. Yes you do, but some can't/won't. I see you as courageous for charting a course in very stormy seas, and sticking to it.

I do pray alot.
I believe that prayer and reading scripture are kind of like taking vitamins. As long as you take them, you feel good, but if you stop, ( and if you don't get them from your food) you can get scurvy, and a host of other problems. If you didn't pray, I believe it would be worse for you.

Sometimes, (I'd like to believe that god is an understanding god and forgives me for some of my outburst when I am at my lowest). There are times I yell at him (I do apologize, after all, it is not his fault). Once I foolishly asked him to take me.
You are not the only one to ever have these thoughts, but he ( God) left you here. You are right, who would take the children, and remember also that we are sent here to grow, learn, and improve. Don't try to get out of this huge growth spurt just because it hurts so bad.

It takes a lot of patience to deal with my oldest. Okay, it takes a lot of patience to deal with all my kids. Each one has their own personality. Maybe I am a little too permissive in allowing them to be themselves, but I don't want them to be stifled as I was growing up. "children should be seen and not heard" When we got excited, my dad would yell at us to quiet down. I want my children to be able to express themselves openly and honestly. I don't know if anyone else can have the patience for that.
I agree that the children should be able to talk to their parents, and that we don't need to yell at them ( unless they are outside next door, and we call them to dinner.) My children sometimes say I am to mean. I expect them to have good manners, I expect them to get good grades, and I expect them to do chores around the house. My mother allowed me to be myself, but she expected myself to improve, and learn, and leave behind my bad habits. I suppose I expect my children to do the same.

I don't' want my son's or daughter going through what I go through right now or to treat others the way I am being treated. I hope my influence will have a more powerful impact on them.
It will, they will thank you for doing what you needed to do in the face of such hardship. I hope you realize how much they will appreciate you for what you are doing in keeping things somewhat normal in their lives.

Anyway, her son had a hockey game. She took my kids........ When I got there, my middle child, had the biggest smile on his face when he saw me and came up to me and hugged me. It was the best.
See, you are letting them live good lives even though yours is he**. I suspect he knows it is hard for you and is happy that you can still be there for him.

I wonder, am I doing right by them, trying to make this marriage work? Am I hurting them more by staying? You always have to try. It would never do for them to ask the rest of their lives " Mom, couldn't you have tried a little harder?" D is a terrible thing, you will need to know you have done everything you could.

I recommend you continue until school is out. Near the end, you can start to discuss things you need to have happen in the marriage. You can go to any ball games you want, if he complains, Plan B.
I suspect she is there on the days you are not supposed to go. I bet a PI could get good stuff easily because he doesn't seem to worry about you crossing his boundaries. After school is out and you have any proof you need, you can cross them all. Go to any games, not worry about what he says.

Well, you have some time to think about it anyway. You could try to have him leave by busting it wide open with proof of what he is doing, or you have time to find a place for you and the kids to go.

Sue, thanks for letting me talk a little bit, hope you are doing well today.

SS

[ November 29, 2002, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,

Thanks, I am doing better. I didn't get to log on over the weekend. Way too busy. I was having troubles writing a paper that is due tomorrow, so I took a couple of days off of everything, and just relaxed. It was very nice. When I went back and tackled the paper, everything just flowed. I have about 2-3 hours worth of work on it.

You can comment on anything you want to. You have some very kind words of advice and they keep me going.

Things are better at home. I don't know what happened, did I change, did H change, did we both change. In the past for Thanksgiving he would usually disappear for a couple of hours. He would just sneak out. This year, he did leave, but he took his brother with and one of the kids to get an item I forgot at the store. He did drop the kids back home and went to a different store. First one didn't have it. His brother was with him. I don't know if he would call her, with him there or not. Anyway, H was back in a very short time. He stayed home the rest of the day. We played games with the kids.

The next day, went christmas shopping (good sales). H bought me my first diamond ring as an anniversary gift. (Diamonds are small, but that is okay). I am so happy about it. We at first looked at some rings, did not notice that they were CZ. The stones were bigger. I thougth, boy, that sure is cheap for diamonds of this size. Then H noticed that they were CZ, he commented "fake diamonds means fake marriage" and moved over to the section with real diamonds. He said he would rather buy me smaller but real, than fake and bigger. The rest of the weekend went good. He was home for all of it, except of course for the kids hockey, which he coaches.

I hope and pray that this is an indication of good things to come. I am afraid to get my hopes up too much, I don't want to be let down again. For the moment, I will enjoy what I have.

Gotta go, will come back

Well, today is an okay day. Started out good. However, I am going through the thoughts of wondering, is it over, is he trying to work on M. Or is he worried that I suspect, so he is trying to pacify me for the time being. I hate not being able to trust my R.

I keep telling myself to stay focused on what is important. For those of you who have taken any "Franlin Covey" courses, one thing they said that really stuck with me "What Matters Most". I have to remind myself daily to stay focused on getting through school. There is plenty of time to deal with this matter.

It has been suggested that I hire a PI. They are expensive, which I don't think I can afford it. However, many of my friends, some of whom he has not met, have offered to go to the ball field and scope things out. They even offered to bring a camera to take pictures. Should I take them up on the offer. One told me she knows people who play out there on the night he plays. She said she might go. After she caught him being bad, she would let him know she was there so he could sweat it out. I know her too well, she could not resist telling him off.

What is your opinion on this. My friends say it is guilt. I speculate that it could be. I also have read some of the other threads out here, and the WS treats the OW better than the W.

The day after thanksgiving we went christmas shopping. H bought me my first diamond ring. It isn't huge. One of the things we were looking for beside being affordable, was that we didn't want the diamonds sticking up too high because of the field I am going into. He knows I will not take it off, for fear of losing it. So the ring is only 1/4 ct. But still nice. Why would he buy me a ring? (beside 5 years of hinting?) Originally we looked at a different ring which we saw afterwards that it was CZ. H said it has to be real diamonds. He made the statement "fake diamonds means fake marriage" Some friends say he thinks I know and he is trying to cover his butt.

[ December 03, 2002, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Sue -- I was in your position for about 2 weeks. I could not stand the "kind of" knowing, but not knowing. I got the positive proof I needed. He said he was going on a night away with friends that I had never heard of, but that lived approx. 150 miles away. I borrowed his truck that morning and mentally noted the mileage. When he was in the shower Monday morning (after the supposed weekend away), I went out and got the mileage off the truck. He'd only gone 30 miles. This was after the elaborate lies he'd given me upon his return on Sunday about his supposed weekend with friends. It was the proof I needed to confront him. He tried to brush me off with anger and make me think that I didn't know what I was talking about, but eventually, he fessed up. It was the beginning of 2 weeks of hell I'm still living through, but at least I know! He has ended it with the OW, though she still calls and hangs up, and we are trying to sort out what is left of our marriage and actually work things out. I don't know where this is going to end up, but I feel that you have to confront them, otherwise he basically has his cake and gets to eat it too! He is a LIAR AND A CHEAT! He needs to know this about himself. You need to stop cheating yourself out of what you deserve. A faithful, loving, supportive relationship. You either have that or you don't. Maybe if you confront him you can get started on the path back to that kind of relationship. I'm hoping I can and I hope the same for you.

My summary:
Me - BS - 37. Him - WS - 36
Married 9 years, together for 12. No kids
d-day - 11/18/02.
Still together and working on repairs.

Hi Tbone,

I would love to confront him. Actually, I think the not confronting is what is making it the hardest for me. It is not my nature to keep quiet about things that are wrong. At this time, I cannot confront. I graduate in May from a program that if I quit now, I would have to start over from the beginning. If he left now, I could not afford to support my kids on my paycheck. I could afford to support my family on my future paycheck when I finish school. My H has the sort of job where layoffs are common in the winter months, especially when the economy is bad. So, I cannot count on the child support as a means to support me and the kids. I have to rely on my ability to provide for them. And my current job is not secure. They just eliminated 3 levels in my dept. and the level I am at is two above the highest they eliminated. My opinion is that it is a matter of time before my dept is gone or there is only a handful of people left to manage things. I cannot only think of what works for me, I have to think of what works for my kids. Sure, I could lose the house and move to an apartment. Rent on an apartment for the size I need with 3 kids, would about the same as my mortgage payment or higher. If I tried to continue working full time and going to school, there is noone to watch the kids while I work at night. School is only during the day for the program I am in. I've asked my family for help. They all said they cannot make that kind of commitment.

I have to be realistic about the whole picture, not just my painful part of it.

[ December 03, 2002, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Dear Sue,

I haven't posted on your thread before- I was just reading it and I feel for you. Hope things look up for you.

You are truly in an abusive relationship. Your husband does not understand what it is to be married. He no doubt learned these behaviors from his own father.

I completely understand why you would prefer to keep your head in the sand for the moment. I think your plan of finishing school is a good one. Since there are six months to go until graduation, this can be your opportunity for Plan A.

One question I have is: if he did leave, wouldn't he be obliged to pay child support? If he is employed, it seems like he couldn't just walk out and leave it up to you to pay all the bills.

Another thought I have is- in a nice way, I would attend one of his Monday games. What is this bullying &*(%$ dictate of his anyway? Who is he to FORBID you to attend? What is he going to do, stomp off the field? Refuse to play?
Why not say you're planning to attend the game the following Monday with a friend of yours who knows a player on the opposing team? Just make it clear you are attending the game. Of course, he can choose to boycott the game.

Maybe he won't go, or maybe he will have to cancel OW's attendance. But your point will have been proven.

But I also understand if you don't feel like the confrontation. It may not be worth it.

What he is doing with the diamond ring is very sweet, but don't put too much hope into it. He can buy it to ease his own guilt, tell himself he is treating you right, buying you this wonderful gift. I would rather see him put the effort into the parenting class, or taking you out in public, proudly, or helping you around the house. Or buying you the new washing machine. But it is important that he knew it was something that means alot to you, and he wanted to do it for you.

Good luck with your nursing studies- I am a RN myself (but stay at home mom in recent years) so I sympathize. You have alot on your plate. It's a testament to you that you can juggle so many balls in the air.

Hi Es,

To answer your question, yes he would have to pay me child support. From past experience, since I know my H and his bill paying habits, he will tell me he will pay. I do believe that he believes what he says. However, I will not see what the court would have awarded me if I left it up to him to pay me directly. I know I would have to have his check garnished. That takes about 4 months to accomplish. Also, during layoff, and unemployment, the amount goes down to what he makes on unemployement. I don't know if he would owe me the difference or if that is the amount I get for that time period. Either way it does not matter. Lost dollars is loss dollars. So I have to be able to provide without the child support, and count the support as extra for the kids. I could use it to pay for school clothes, the extra's that come along and not the day to day stuff.

He does not know yet, but he may be layed off this winter. Fortunately, the project he is on, keeps getting pushed back. He is in construction, and when one project is done, if the employer does not have another one to send him to, he gets his notice and back to the union hall to get his next job. At this time the list is long. So, he will be about 2 months maybe longer before he is working. The last layoff, he was out of work 3 months.

Lately, H has been making some effort towards being an Husband to me and a father to the kids. He has been much better towards our oldest. How long will it last?

Once I finish school, I intend to confront. If he will give her up, then I will try to make the M work. There will be new rules in the house. Such as the Monday night softball. Either I am allowed there, or he does not play. He can find another team to play on, one where the players include their families. I know, his Sunday night Coed team is like that. He could not get away with it on that team. One of the players is my friend from across the street. She would tell him off.

He might get his way about the Union Christmas party. Originally he said we were going. I took the evening off of work. Now, he is hesitating. But, I'm not sure we can afford it. I have always had fun at these parties. We have not attended since our D was born. She turns 4 this month. And I have been about 30 pounds overweight and growing in pounds each year since to the tune of 70 pounds overweight.

On the bright side, I lost 10 pounds. So, I have 60 more to go. And no, he is not the trim man I first met. He has gained quite a few inches in the waist himself. But I am still proud to be seen with him.

I work with a woman who remembers my H from her bartending days. He lived near the bar she worked at then. She says she remembers him as a nice looking man. She asked me what happened to him, when she saw him one evening when he came to have dinner with me. I told her too much snackies. There was certain individuals that stood out to her that frequented the bar. She recalls him because of his girlfriend at that time. This girl liked to come in alone often, and rarely left alone.

Anyway, gotta go.

I want to thank everyone for their kinds words and encouragement and understanding.

My female friends, who are single or in good M, tell me to dump him. Expect one, she says she would not have the courage to do what I am. She would have taken the easy way out.

At this time, I try not to acknowledge that he is emotionally and psychologically abusive to me. Did I mention financial abuse too. To do so would really P*** me off and it is hard to do a Plan A when you are P***ed off.

Each issue will be dealt with in its proper time. In case you cannot tell, I have a good handle on myself today.

Have you considered going back part time. From what I hear the Nursing shortage is nationwide. The school I am attending usually starts a new class each fall. They are now starting a new class each semester.

[ December 03, 2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Well, H surprised me. H called today and reminded me that today was the last day to get our RSVP for the christmas party. He didn't want to go before. I also told him I didn't know if we could afford to go. He told me that he will be on supervisor's pay for a month or two, and we will see the increase this month, so we can afford it. So, I put in our RSVP. It sure suprised me that he wanted to go, when last week, he said he was not that interested. So I didn't bring it up again.

Hi Sue,
I wish you having a good time at a party and being able to relax and feel some Christmas spirit.
You deserve some happy time.
FBOW

Hi Sue,
In one place you asked if it was you that changed, or if it was H that changed. Perhaps he is finally reacting to the good changes you have made. I hope the things you see are a sign of good to come. Remember that the changes we make for the better are often reflected in others around us. I am very glad he is showing a little better side to you, it will make it much easier for you to do a good plan A.

Remember that we often don't know what will happen, that is why the plan A. BTW, I don't think you need to get a PI if you are comfortable not knowing. Often the BS seeks the peace of mind of knowing they are not crazy, and that there really is something going on. It is nice to know you are right, and not imagining things. So, if you are Ok with things the way they are now, don't worry about that.

The latest signs are good, be happy for small favors. You still need to protect yourself and your children because you don't know what the end will be. I doubt if you will relax yet and feel that all is well, but sometimes we want something so bad we pretend about the wrong things. Please continue to watch and learn, but try to get some rest while things are a little better. I hope that makes sense to you.

I notice from your posts to others that you have the concepts down well. I really don't worry that you will make a bad mistake, and ruin your chances. I just feel bad for the pain you go through, and I wish you the chance to be happy with someone that loves you and takes care of you. I hope your H can rise to the occasion and be the person you need him to be.

SS

SS and Forebetter,

Thanks - I will have fun. Any suggestions on how to lose 60 pounds between now and the party (its on the 13?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (just kidding) I know this one is impossible. Maybe I can get down one size - big maybe.

Hi SS,

Pretending does help. Sometimes I get so caught up in the pretending, even I believe me. LOL.

Last night, some of the haunts came back. They were not as upsetting, such as knowing he went to Vegas with her. Knowing they discussed her buying a teddy, "a thanksgiving one, or maybe just a giving one". Or how about this one "how many shoes are you bringing this time?" What <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> THIS TIME???? How many times has there been <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Don't ask me how I know this. I know it.

Or, why did he marry me. We married, and he did not move in with me right away, and I did not move in with him. His excuse, he still has 3 months on his lease, and it is too small for me and the kids to move in with him. So, why did he not want to move in when we got married. Was this a ruse so I would stop the CS. I did not discontinue that until he moved. I considered divorcing him back then. Were they living together? More than likely, I was never at his place. His brother was. Sooooo many haunts, so little answers.

Why do I bother?

I know, the kids. They have been my sole motivation to make this work. (I do love him, but I would have recovered). Did I make a mistake trying to give them a "family"? All I wanted for them was what I had growing up.

[ December 11, 2002, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Dear Sue

I can understand on holding off in confronting him. The nursing programs are pretty tough. I'm also in one and find it difficult to concentrate but its for my me and my son so I just take things one day a time. I hope when you graduate things work out the way you want them to and i also hope the same for me cuzz like u I still love my H. Hope you guys have a Merry Christmas and a great New Year.

depressed

Hi Sue,
Wow, what a busy month. I usually post on my lunch hour at work ( which hour can start any time from 11 to 4 and changes daily) but I have been having 15 min. lunch hours, so not much time right now.
Have you had the party yet? How did you do on the 60 lbs?

Last night, some of the haunts came back. They were not as upsetting, such as knowing he went to Vegas with her. Knowing they discussed her buying a teddy, "a thanksgiving one, or maybe just a giving one". Or how about this one "how many shoes are you bringing this time?" What THIS TIME???? How many times has there been Don't ask me how I know this. I know it.
There is not much we can say here to make you feel better, we all know it should not be this way. Sounds like the ring was just a smoke screen to keep you happy?
What is your take on things, what do you really think is going on, that is, the big picture?

Why do I bother? I know, the kids. They have been my sole motivation to make this work. (I do love him, but I would have recovered). Did I make a mistake trying to give them a "family"? All I wanted for them was what I had growing up.

Not just the kids. Sue, you are trying to do what is right, because of the kind of person you are. Did you make a mistake? Is there really any way to know that now? Could you have done any different with what you knew at the time? I don't have those answers but I can say that in our soul searching we often ask these things, and usually the answer is that we did the best we could with what we knew.

Sue, I see you post on others threads, and you seem to understand things pretty well. I believe you will be OK but it's hard lots of days. On the days you know you are going to fall apart, pretend you will make it anyway, and I believe you will.
I hope today is better than yesterday and that you are happier. I am glad your kids have you for their Mom. You already know what you need to do. Finish school, take care of your health, and that includes your emotional health, and take care of the kids. Do the best plan A you can from day to day but don't go overboard with big things that will wear you out.

Right now, worry about having a good Christmas with your family. Put all this other in the back of your mind, it will still be there come January, don't worry about it now. Your kids need your energy right now, and you need theirs too, enjoy them while they have all this fun in their hearts and before they realize how hard some parts of life can be.

Put on your smile and pretend you are happy at least for a few weeks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
See you around.
SS

HI Sue and SS,
just got home, opened the mailbox and found among incoming mail two I believe Christmas Cards letters from my H to OW and OW family. He apparently forgot to put stamps on them so they came back.

My H is not home.

I just hurt so much even though I really should not be either surprised or anything -this is such a small drop in all the events of last year.

I am just sad, a bit angry too. See, he came back last time, after I clerly stated to not come back if this not what you want to do. So I was hopin for long and rough but at least possible recovery.

I have not approach him since he came back about two weeks ago but he remains cold and distant to me.

Now I don't now what I should do. Leve those cards on his desk, hand them to him, ask for a talk or what.

Since I am kept uninformed what is/was going on I am tempted to read them, but I know from experience it will backfire - I will feel awful afterwards for snooping and most probably the content will hurt me even more.

So I will not read them.

I do feel I will tell H how things like that hurt me and ask him to tell me - when he is ready, but soon - within a week or two let's say - what his intentions and plans for future are. I can't live off crumbs much longer.

I know that those might be just kind sharing of Christmas spirit as the whole A as I understand started as extending a helpul hand to OW. I hate to be selfish but I do not care if this is a case at this point. He did not promise to break contact with OW and as of last talk in September he still loves her not me and wants to be with her not our family.

I don't think he even mailed cards to his own family, parents and uncles etc. Usually I write them, this year I was procrastinating because usually we both signed them and I just did not know how to word the greatings. Anyway I sent an early card to his parents signing for myself and him and kids.

Does he consider OW and her family his family now?

Is it fog or am I in fog by staying in plan A?
Am I wrong for keeping this all from kids and families so he has unburdened choice?

Sorry Sue for encroaching on your thread again.
I don't know what I am asking for, I know I am to make decisions, not you guys, thanks in advance for any comments.
Venting helps though.
FBOW

[QUOTE] I'm going to take golf lessons. He golfs, I don't. He sort of suggested it. He commented then we could golf together. I guess he is trying to spend time with me...

That is huge- Golf is where they go to escape...if he is inviting you to learn, it means he wants to work on your relationship. Does OW golf? She probably doesn't, and I'll bet that if you golf he won't be able to use golf as an excuse to go see her anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I never knew that about golf. Wow, puts a whole new perspective on things.

Does not explain other stuff.

Forebetter,
Do not apologize. I'm sorry you are going through this. Why did he come back if he wants to be with her?

How to handle it? Good question. I am the confrontational type, however, I am not confronting my H.

What do you think he would do if you set them on his desk with them on top, laid side by side. He would know you saw them. What do you think he would do if you asked him about them. Tell him you want to know what they say?

This must be horrible. It is like everytime we find something, it brings it to the forefront with the same old feelings of hurt.

Last night we went to the Christmas party. Everything I picked out was horrible to wear. I gained so much weight, I cannot wear my nice clothes that used to fit me. So, I put on a pair of dress jeans. I had to jump around to get them on. I know, it must of looked pretty funny, but I was not in a laughing mood. Especially since, Las Vegas kept running through my mind. So, he is laughing at me trying to get into my jeans. So, that was it, I broke down and started crying. I didn't mean to cry. H thougth I was upset because of the weight I gained (okay, that is part of it.) I started rambling on about how I know he is not happy with the way I look and finds me repulsive. He had the decency to tell me that I am not repulsive. He took me to Kmart - closet store to find me something to wear that fits.

After that I had fun. Except, one conversation keeps going through my mind. I wonder if he was telling his friend J, if he wants a D or something. J, was drinking, he didn't seem drunk, but he seemed tipsey. He said to me "its good to see you two together again?????. Then he quickly added, some thing with regards to H having to find a sitter for the kids and stuff. We hardly spend time with J and his wife. Usually once a year they see me, and it is at this function. So, is it my overly suspicious mind at work, or has H been saying that he wants a D?

Party was fun. Usually, we eat and leave. H surprised me that he wanted to stay a little while.

H suggested that he and I stop somewhere else afterwards. Until he saw the time. Then we went home.

I hope she is out of the picture, but I don't think so.

[ December 14, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi Sue,
I am glad you enjoyed the party despite the pre-party dress dillemmas.
I'd love to shed more weight as well, and since this goal is totally depending on me alone, this is where my efforts go.

I waited for H to come back from his casual Friday/unofficial party event. I handed him his cards and asked him to tell me what his plans re me and our family were in light of this. I told him he does not need to respond right away ( as it was late, he probably had a drink or two), but within a week or so, could write me a letter if he'd rather not talk to me. I told him that situations like this hurt me a lot and that I realize he told me in September he's back, but does not want to nor he loves me and he'll manage somehow; it's me though who have difficulty dealing with current situation. And I reminded him that he is free to leave if this is what he wants. He asked me if I want him out; I said no, I still hope for reconciliation and for better marriage, I just don't want a lousy or fake M and I need to know his idea about our future. He did not answer and went to sleep on the sofa as usual.
I also think today he mailed those cards again - at least they dissappeared from his desk. I did not ask what he wrote - I don't care about that.

I despise being provoked and set up to act and later got blamed for that. It is hard to hang on AND work on myself at the same time.
Well you know that.
Have a peacefull weekend.
FBOW

Hi Forebetter,

How long have you been in Plan A? Do you try to do things together, fun stuff? It has been recently that my H and I have started doing fun stuff together. Some of it is because I have been letting him know that I don't like sitting home everynight on the weekends and he disappears. I told him, I know we don't see much of each other during the week, so I expected that we would spend the weekends together. I told him I want to go to dinner, just him and I, I want us to go to movies without the kids. He has gotten better. We have a long ways to go, but things are better.

How long can you stay in a M like this? OW, by family did you mean kids? or is she Married too?

Why did he come back? I do recall, it takes about 6 months to get over it. Has he agreed to No Contact and he is breaking it? or has there been no agreement?

I know I am dreading the day I will have to confront.

Hi Sue,

I've been plan Aing officially since D-day in May, though he was away for two months.
I kept trying to keep family events intact - we went bowling once, out of town for Father's Day, for a while we were going out twice a month with kids for dinner ( never alone - except for our post D-day anniversary dinner). After his long trip those outings became rarer though. He also refused our morning coffee outings. I enjoy any outing I can join - recently he usually was only taking kids, but I keep hinting about the movies- I went alomg last week but I sort of invited myself. I try "safe" places like movies so he is not threatened with imminent conversation. Tonight we just got back from a dinner. Those dinner are pleasant, except he rarely exchanges any word with me, mostly kids chatter.

OW is young and never married, by family I meant her parents.

I truly don't know how long I can stand current situation. In May my initial reaction was to just run away from the pain. Immediately though I thought about the kids and how really immature and selfish this solution would really be. Besides the A was still young - or so I thought - and I hoped it flared and will extinguish quickly.

Just as you ( and because I come from divorced parents) I care a lot about burden of D on my kids. They love my H and he is involved with them ( fun activities, chores and disciplining is my area). Their relationship motivates me to work on myself hoping H cares about them too. Well, but bottom line I still don't think I can live knowing he does not love me and is with us just because of kids. What would it buy me - 5 years? Of life like this year?

If we would split amicably, I believe my current job would support myself and kids in current home but no reserves for college or saving, or extravagancies (like trips every three years to my home country) either. Worse yet I am really worried about the blame game that can start among us because the D.

My H is not a ONS guy. I am convinced he does feel what he told me about OW. He does believe it will last forever - I am hoping may be not. It is a fantasy in a way that they are thousand of miles apart and moving there would be a huge difference for him - and would be rather hard for him to bring OW over here.
But we in our M experienced 3 periods of many months long separation due to his job and we managed to stay together thru those ( it was 8-10 years ago). So I know at least he can handle long distance relationship - OW - I don't know.
I don't want to guess or assume what OW is in for.
I have my theory but it doesn't matter. I have no idea what they told her parents as obviously my H got to know them. She met me once so she knows for sure H is married w/kids, but again - she might believe it was unhappy M and already falling apart. Which is not true from my standpoint. There were areas that could be improved, I know I adjusted my EN a bit so he probably did the same thing. Bad part we never really communicated our feelings, just practical and "important" issues in order to survive and succeed in new country. We had flat periods in M, some longer than others, I don't think my H had any A's though, except short but painful EA(?) 15yrs ago.
I had a brief "too close friendship" due to feeling lonely and unappreciated- now I know it was an EA ( too many issues shared) 10yrs ago, I ended immediately when I noticed that it was causing my H pain and could end dangerously, and also that that guy might not be as nice and friendly as I initially thought ( I am so glad I stopped short of major physical contact otherwise guilt would kill me).
Then the pre-A five years were really good in my opinion - at least I felt more loved and "in love" and enjoying more together then ever before.
But I was also working full time and less financial worries meant also me more tired and less caring of household stuff and probably nagging too much. And yes I am getting older and though I did not gain much weight since getting M I was never thin. It is a constant concern of mine and I have to watch myself otherwise I can easily balloon +15# and then struggle to loose them.

I did not asked H for NC nor he made any promises. I only kept telling him he needs to decide but my choice is to stay together and rebuild our M. And on few specific occasions I told him which of his actions hurt me a lot.

It is another too long post.
Till later,
FBOW

Part of me says it would be hypocritical to suggest things I have not tried, however, here goes nothing.

Some of the things MB suggests is the NC letter. Would he do it? It sounds like she lives far away, possibly another country? May I ask what country are you from? (this is just plain and simple nosieness).

So, for him to be with her, means moving far away? That would mean less contact with the kids. When my H and I split 7 years ago, initially he loved the freedom, after a couple of months, seeing the kids on my terms, well, it bothered him. So, that is why I sometimes wonder why he came back. Was it because he did not want to be a part time daddy. These are things I don't know.

I know OW sent him a picture of a baby via e-mail. It was one that was sent to her from someone else. So, that tells me it is not her's. But why would she send my H pictures of a baby. Does she want one? Is she trying to trap my H. Would he leave me over this? I don't know? I know it would destroy the progress he has made with our oldest. Their R is poor at this time. My oldest thinks his dad hates him, and he does not want to be around him much. Over the last month, H has been trying to improve things between them. They have made some progress.

H should be home by now. He left around 6p. He said he would be gone about 2 hours. This what he used to do when he was/is seeing OW. I have to focus. I have a final on monday. I need to stop thinking about this and pass my test.

I don't know which is worse, the crying, or the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, and I want to cry and cannot. Right now, I want to scream at him. I want to ask him, why, how could he, is he that selfish and self centered and cares so little for me that he could rip me apart like this.

Please, I want the A to end.

[ December 14, 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

I PASSED PATHOPHYSIOLOGY!!!!!!!!

Now I have to pass Nursing Theory. I'm so worried I put too much effort into Patho that I might fail theory. Patho I could have retaken. I would have had to go infront of the board and explain how I will do it different to pass, but I could retake it. Theory, if I fail, I'm out of the program. So, I need some prayers.

Back to studying. My final is on Wed. I'm not sure which is worse, failing Nursing Theory or finding out about my H's A

[ December 16, 2002, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Way to go Sue ! ! !

I believe you will do well in theory. I have read your posts as I have come across them, and you are a smart girl. I know you're not perfect (who is?) but you have a lot going for you.

I'll pray for your success, and I suspect many others will too.

Ace that test and then get some rest for a couple of weeks, you deserve it.

SS

Thanks SS.

On the plus side, I have passed Theory when I have been under the gun for stuying. It makes me wonder, if I put more into, what kind of grade I could get. Well, back to the books. Test is at 10am tomorrow, and will probably have the results by late afternoon or early evening

Which is worse, waiting to find out results from Nursing theory exam or the A.?

The results were supposed to be posted at 2:30, it is now 3:20 and still no results.

I need to know if I passed. If I didn't then I don't get to progress to the next semester.

I PASSED!!!!!!

What a relief. Now I can relax until January. Next semester I will only have to take one class, clinicals and preciptorship.

One more semester and I graduate.

Lucky you, you just earned the right to take more tests !!! Oh, wait, we are supposed to be celebrating, not making you sad.

I suspect you are happy about it, told you you were smart !!!

Bet that makes for a happier Christmas for you. Congradulations again!
SS

PS, are those 20 things all true?

[ December 18, 2002, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,
Thanks. I got a C in the class. Could have done better if I applied myself more and if I didn't fail the first test (oops). But, I went from a 71% to and 83%, so not bad. I don't look forward to more tests. Next semester is the last semester and then comes the BIG test, state boards.

Yes, those 20 things are true. Why, do some seem like they are not me?

I had a hard time believing #4

I wondered why about the end of # 11 but that would have to do with H?

I laughed when I read # 12, I would really like to hear that one.

I laughed about #'s 14, and 15.

I feel bad for you about #'s 18 and 19.

You have a pretty good sense of Humor.

Think I'll save the other questions for later, glad you are happy.

SS

Hi SS

Yes, I had low grades when I went back to college. I think it was a 2.0, or very close, out of 90 credits. Not all of them were bad. I had enough credits to get a 2 year degree. I was lacking a few classes in each category to reach a graduation. In HS, I was a very studious student. Grade started to fall some in my Jr year. That was the same year I had Geometry and Chemistry, I also started my first job. I missed a week of school at the beginning of the school year for orientation for my job. That messed up my grades for these two classes. I missed the basics, and I was lost the whole year. I still tried. Then I went to college, and for some reason, I stopped being studious and started being the "party girl". My attitude was "you want me to open a book" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So, there went the GPA. Had no direction or goal, so when I turned 21, I decided I was an "adult" and had to stop playing around with going to school and get a "real" job. Went back a few time, tried different stuff. Those grades were much better, A's, B's or C's depending upon the class. I also have a hard time with new instructors or instructors that are not regulars at the school. I don't learn well from them. Managed to bring the GPA up to a 2.46, had to have a 2.50 to apply to the nursing program. I petitioned in, and requested they look at my current gpa and not my past gpa. Which was around a 3.0. (I think). Anyway, they did and accepted me. I know I would be doing better if I did not have so much on my plate. I hardly study. I usually study about 10- 20 hours before each test. EAch test has about 4 weeks worth of material and we meet twice a week. So, I guess I'm not doing bad, considering.

My H, goes camping and fishing. Does not take me and or the kids with. I decided last summer, that after I am done with school and pass boards, I will take the kids fishing. Pack a picnic lunch, head out to a local lake and fish from shore.

Babble when nervous - i do, I talk dumb talk, irrelevant talk, mostly talk to talk.

What can I say about 14 & 15. As a kid, I knew every present my parent bought me every year. For me, that was half the fun. I knew every hiding spot, knew when I could look and my parents also would discuss what to buy us at the kitchen table. My bedroom was in the basement. (we outgrew the house, so my parents made two rooms in the basement). The basement stairs were off the kitchen. I knew how to walk up the steps and they would not creek. I's sit there and listen. That was fun too. I knew what everyone was getting.

18 & 19, don't feel bad for me. Once I finish school, I might feel different about working. The wanting to be a stay at home mom started after the birth of my D. I love my boys, but I did not desire it. I may have been because H was in school, so I had to work, so I didn't think of it.

When I'm done with school, I'm thinking of trying to find a 12 hour shift job. I know I will have to mainly work off shifts, so if I work 12 hour shifts, I will be home more days in a two week period. A friend of mind does that. She is classified a .9, which means she is scheduled to work 72 hours out of 80. She works 12 hour shifts mostly and works 6 days out of 14. Sure beats my 10 days out of 14.

SS - I tried finding your story, I was curious about you. I didn't find any threads that looked like you started them. Are things going good for you?

[ December 18, 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Actually,
I am an elf that lives at the north pole. I do this im my spare time. Right now I am supposed to be repairing the harness for the sleigh but last year it looked really good, so.......

I think I did my story once but it is not as exciting as yours. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow at work where I have a faster computer.

My W and I are doing very well, I only wish that gift could be given to all.

SS

Well, Elf, could you please relay to Santa what I want for Christmas - for OW to get a man of her own, and I don't mean mine. Okay, the selfishness aside.

Really, I'm doing good today. H, well, he sometimes tries to pick fights. I don't bite, He can fight alone.

He has been rather receptive to ideas lately. Such as, tomorrow is our anniversary. I asked him if he wanted me to take the night off of work so we could celebrate. He asked what about the kids, do we have someone to watch them. I said not yet. If I cannot find a sitter, we can have a nice dinner at home with the kids and have a nice evening at home. He was infavor of it. WOW. This is new.

I suggested we combine our phones on the family plan, he is okay with that too.

I suggested we get a new family picture taken, since the last one, we only had one child, we now have three. He wants to do this too.

I didn't bombard him at one time with these. Just when the occassion to mention it came up, he was receptive.

I was discussing his softball for next spring. The team I'm not allowed to go watch, he might not play with them next year. What's up with this? We will see come spring.

There is one thing bugging me, but not too much. At the christmas party, this one man, who I usually see only at the party, a friend of H. As we were getting ready to leave, he says to me, it is nice to see you two together again. Again? the only time he sees me is at this annual function. Then he quickly added, stuff about my being in school and H not being able to get sitters to attend union meetings. Didn't make sense. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. It just took me by surprise. I'm not going to let this one bug me too much

So, how is the harness repair going?

I have to finish up christmas shopping. We blew it on the santa gifts. D wants a doll house, we got her Rapunzel Barbie, S1 wants yu-gi-oh cards, and so does s2. I have not gotten H's gift, so I have to get myself moving on that. I think I will do it this weekend. First thing to tackle tommorow is the mountain in my dining room I call folded laundry. After 4 months I've finally accepted that they will not walk themselves to the closet and dressers, so I will have to help. I have about 10 boxes of clothes to donate that he kids outgrew. Just that alone might make my house look clean again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I decided to get back into an exercise routine. Maybe I will be able to get myself into those jeans by the time school starts up again without looking like a "jumping bean" or have to suck my belly button into my spine to snap and zip. (yes, now I can laugh about it.)

I spoke to Santa, and he says: ( quote)
"I don't get involved in domistic disputes, I learned my lesson dealing with the MRS."

So, it looks like you are on your own with that one.

I can't find my story. I never did bookmark it and now it's in limbo. If I don't find it first thing tomorrow, I'll do a condensed version.

You should know that I first posted to you because I wandered by one day and you had posted for a few times with no reply. I didn't want you to think that no one cared, so I possted. I see now that you get around and use this one to vent and journal. You are pretty widely traveled and well known. If I had known, I may not have come by again, but I am stuck now that I have been here a while. So, I dont't know how much help I will be, but I still care.
I still think you are on the right track. It has got to be hard right now, you are getting such mixed signals from H. However the best course is always plan A as long as you can. When you are nice to people, they are more likely to want to spend time with you.

Wishing the best for you.
SS

Hi SS,

Well, the being nice things seems to work. Time will tell.

Yesterday was our 5th anniversary. This one was the first one where we went out to dinner and he had a dozen roses waiting for me when I got home. He has not given me roses in 10 years. I decided not to analyze why after 10 years he finally gives me roses. I was a nice gesture and I loved getting them, so I don't want the thought or memory ruined with negative questioning of why he is being attentive. When I tell my friends he got me roses, their immediate response was he feeling guilty. Maybe, but I am not going to embrase that idea, because I want to keep this memory as special.

Sue,
I am glad something nice happened to you. It helps, doesn't it.

I hope you can keep up your plan A. I wish we knew what was going on, but take the good and enjoy it, as you have already said. It's sad that we all have a bad side, I would like to see his good side a little more.

I can't find my story so I will just condense it. I came to MB in Late Jan. or early Feb of this year. No A at our house, just looking to improve things. I knew they should be better, but didn't know how to make it so. MB provided the tools to a great improvment. That and lots of prayer. I had trouble with LB's, W distant. Things not bad, but not good. Drifting apart? Not really, but not really close.
Now she smiles when I come home from work. She is glad to see me. We are close. Still working things out ( probably all our lives) but close. I was helped mostly by reading others stories, but then one day I ran across a post that I thought I could answer, and have been posting since, trying to help. Not an exciting story, but here I am.
My oldest son is 24 now ( I am 47, married 25 years.) Youngest are twin girls 9.

Have a nice Christmas. Enjoy your good times, and your children while you have them, they grow up so fast.

SS

Hi SS,

How do I say this, but Way Cool.

When I first met my H, he seemed like the very sensitive, caring type of man I was looking for. And most of the time he was.

You don't have to have a Soap Opera story to have an interesting life. Your wife is so lucky to have married a man like you. Your recognized that it could be better, decided to find out what you could do, and you did it. I'll bet it must be feel great to come home and have your wife greet you with a smile.

Here is an example of how my H was. We were not dating very long when I had my 31st birthday. Him and his brother rented an apartment together. He didn't have much money in those days, and he wanted to give me a nice birthday, he could not afford to take me to a fancy restuarant, nor buy me a gift. The best gift he gave me was he made me a nice meal. He had me come over about the time is should have been done. He did all the clean up and everything. I didn't know he was doing this. I thought I was coming over to watch movies. I walk in the door and he greets me with a Happy birthday and a card. I don't know why, but I started crying. For some reason, I was upset over turning 31. Now, 30 did not bother me at all. He hugged me and was concerned that I was upset. His brother comes home from work a couple of hours later, and says happy birthday to me. Out of the corner of my eye, I see my H, trying to stop him, by waving his hands back and forth, in that manner that says no, don't do it. I thought that was so sweet. He did lots of stuff like this. I worked two jobs back in those days. He would help me out on time and do my laundry when he was doing his. At some point we lived together (first mistake). I got pregnant with S#1, H was still very sweet and attentive. He proposed after I was pregnant. He assured me it was not because I was pregnant. We decided that we would marry after he graduated. (he was in school for his current occupation). He got cold feet, he was afraid he offered to marry me because I was pregnant. I was okay with that. I figured, he has to be sure, and so do I. 6 months after S#1 was born, I am pregnant with S#2. Sometime before S#2 was born and about 5 months after he was born, I noticed he was changing. Very slowly, but changing. He drastically changed after he met HER. Two months later he moves out. (Oh, somewhere after s#2 was born and before he met HER, we decided to get married when H's brother was home on leave. H's brother had joined the army shortly after we met. We also planned to do S#2 christianing when H's brother was home, since he is godfather). We get word about H's brothers leave, I start planning christianing, and I ask about wedding. H starts to back out. I figured cold feet again. H's brother comes home, we have christianing and are nto married. H's brother goes back, about a month later H moves out. I am now on my own with 2 small babies. I think I told you the part after that.

I don't know what happened, but he changed so much. I thought the old H was back about 6 months after he left. For two years we dated, he seemed like he was the same old H I met and fell in love with. He asked me to marry him, so I did. Now, I wonder, what happened. Was SHE ever out of the picture, was he seeing both of us. Did it end for them at some point and start up again after we married? So many questions, and no answers. Will I ever have answers, probably not. Can I live without the answers, yes, as long as he is straight with me in the future.

Time will tell. Maybe the old H is back? From past experiences, he will eventually fess up. He did before. The mistake I made was I did not pursue it to resolve it. I won't make that mistake this time. Who knows, maybe he is trying to soften me up for the big news.

I would love to have a man who loved me so much and saw that we did not have the best of M, and wanted to improve it. What more could a girl ask for.

Maybe mine is in his own way. I have this quirk when I know a R is dying on my side. I won't bore you with it. But H knows what it is. Sometimes, he would ask me if it is happening, and know, it never happens with him. I guess his asking was his way of wanting to know that I still loved him.

[ December 20, 2002, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi Sue,
You have an interresting story yourself.
It's hard to know what to say on Christmas Eve. I really want things to be good for you.

Try really hard to think of the good side of things for a couple of weeks, you know, pretend things are good and see if it helps you be happier at least for the holidays.

I wish for your luck to run to the good for a while, but I find that we can really affect what kind of luck we have by how hard we work, and by our preperation and attitude. So having said that - Good luck this week.

SS

Hi SS,

The Christmas weekend was good. My H really surprised me by helping to get the housework caught up before my family came over.

On Christmas Eve, I was slightly upset with him because he was gone for abotu 4 hours finishing up his x-mas shopping. I know I had some last minutes stuff to do that morning, which took me two hours. I'm trying to finish up the cleaning, we have to be at his aunts house in an hour, the kids are finishing up their baths and I still need to get in the shower. He calls, and could tell by the sound of my voice when I answered the phone I was not a "happy camper". I told him why. I said I was frustrated that all the cleaning was not done. I had hoped to have had all the cleaning done before Christmas Eve so all I had to do was relax and bake some cookies that day. I also told him, I knew he did alot to help, that the kids were refusing to listen and were messing up all the work I was trying to do. So, when he got home, he said, leave this, go take your shower, relax. We will come home early and I will get the kids to help me finish up. He and the kids finished the cleaning, the kids promptly messed it up, which he made the clean again. He also complimented my looks, which was the "wash and go" look. (He usually does not like it when I don't do anythign with myself.) When we left the house to go to his aunts, my hair was still wet from my shower. I didn't have time to dry it. They promptly start dinner on time. So, if you are late, "too bad, too sad".

Lately, eversince his Vegas trip, he has been very attentive and complimentary. I hate to sound distrustful, but I have to ask why?.

I will enjoy what I have while I have it. I still suspect that they talk.

On Christmas day, he said he was going to go get his brother, who he could have called and asked if he was coming over. His brother has his own truck and has had a drivers lisence for the past 15 years. My H was gone for about 4 - 5 hours. So, I wonder where he went. Was he really at his brothers? Since they came in together, probably, but for how long? When I called him, he was getting gas. It took him another hour to get home. His brother lives 10 min. away and there is about 5 gas stations in between. OW lives about 20 min. away. Oh well, not going to let this could my holiday season. Just an observation.

I will bide my time until I finish school, I have decided once I finish, pass boards, then I will confront. He will have the option of ending it and we get MC counseling or he can leave. I will do all I can to save my M. Once the A is brought out in the open, I will not allow it to continue in front of me.

well, the light of day or morning brings out some truths. Last night, H tells me he is getting gas. This morning he tells me he didn't get gas because the gas station was closed. Granted, the one he said was closed is the cheapest one in the area, however, there is a gas station 3 blocks from the house. He could have gotten enough to get him through the day and filled up on his way home this evening.

So, where was he when I talked to him??? Some answers I will not get

Today was a rough day. Started out okay, except for some reason I woke up around 3:30 AM and could not go back to sleep until around 6:30am. H calls, I had to leave to bring him a tool he forgot to take with him. Thats okay, I needed to get up.

AFter that, for some reason I had that "impending doom" feeling all day in the pit of my stomach. I hated it.

One of my classmates called to chat. I am so looking forward to school starting again, and then again, I am afraid for it to end.

Graduating means, taking boards, all that is great. It also means confrontation time. I will be so scared for that day. The time will fly by and before I know it, it will be here.

I'm not sure how do I do it. Do I ask him? Do I tell him what I know, do I provide the proof I have. Do I tell him to leave? Do I tell him to end it and we go to MC, if he refuses he can leave? Okay, I know which it will be, I will give him the MC option. I've alread decided that one. I have to know before I call it quits that I did all I can to save my M.

Do I take him out to a quite place so we can be alone? Do I have him meet me? Do I catch him with her and confront at that time? (I think this is probably the worst choice, but would make for a good drama scene) I have not really given this much though until today. Why today, I don't know.

I know I was talking to my BIL and sister yesterday. They know the OW. From what my BIL says, OW lost all her friends because of her behavior with my H the first time around.

Oh well, I still have 5 months before I have to make any decisions.

Bad day. I was so hoping that this would not happen to me during this break from school.

I'm getting that horrible feeling that something is wrong. I'm starting to feel anxious and I am not trusting my H. Okay, so the last part has not changed in a while. When my focus is on getting through school, I put that on a back burner so to speak and it does not bother me as much. I need to focus on all the plans I had for this christmas break. I was going to spend quality time with my children during the day.

Right now, I want to confront my H and get it over with. I am torn between wanting to make it work and telling him to leave so I can get on with my life and get off the rollercoaster ride. Did I mention, I scream very loudly on those things and my language is such from fear that I could make a sailor blush. I have teenagers laughing at me during those rides. Okay, now that I made a side trip to the real rollercoaster ride, I feel almost the same way about the emotional ones too. I want to scream loudly, I want to get it all out. I want to hit someone (I will not really act on this one). Right now, everything is one big jumble up mess inside of me that I don't know where to begin.

I'm sure this is resulting from my pushing these issues on a back burner so I can get through school and now that I have a break, they are rushing foward, sort of racing each other to see who can get to the forefront first.

Tomorrow is another day.

Hi Sue,
I know it is hard. You've been following your plang long enough to feel exhausted. But I admire you for having a goal, a deadline, and ability to contain yourself now in order to be in better position no matter what the outcome of the confrontation will be when you finish school. You must have had good reasons to design your plan. I know you also are determined enought to stick to it. Vent here your frustration and anger, bleep some words if it helps, just be sure your actions won't be driven by frustration alone.
Now please tell ME all of the above. And I still can't establish a firm deadline...
Tomorow is another day. Hopefully easier.
FBOW

Hi FBOW,

My deadline is around June i think. I graduate May 14, then I have to study for boards. I've already started studying, but from the time of graduation until the time I take boards I will need to study just as hard or harder so I can pass them the first time. I don't know exactly when boards are. I think in June. In the spring I will start interviewing for jobs. A lot of the hospitals hire you contigent upon graduation and passing boards. Once I have my new employment lined up, I can start to work on arranging alternate daycare for the kids, (just in case). Then will be the confrontation.

At work last night, I was constantly on the verge of crying, but could not cry. When I got home, someone opened the flood gates. I was fine at first, then when I went to bed it started. Got up, fine, back to bed, crying. I think H knew, but he avoids tears. I was trying to not cry in his presence.

I hate knowing what I know and at the same time, I am glad I know. I hate knowing that he went to Vegas with her. I hate wondering if he is with her when he is not home, such as on Christmas, did he go to her house. I hate wondering if he only married me because of the child support. When we got married, I assumed we would live together right away. I came close to divorcing him based upon this. He would not leave his apartment until his lease was up. There was 3 months left on it. I told him we could pay those 3 months, or the kids and I could move in. We will bring the bare necessities, since it was a one Bedroom. Was she living there? I hate knowing that he was mad at me when his "best friend" called me at work wanting to know if I knew how to find him. By this time, I am pregnant with D and we had just finiished moving into our house. So, I told him, of course I know where he is. I should, we are married and bought a house. H wanted to keep it a secret. Who keeps their marriage a secret????? When he got mad at me, I told him if anyone should be mad it is me. Not him. I have the right to be mad because he is ashamed to tell him friends he married me. I asked him at that time, why did you marry me. Was it the child support? Were you going to keep it a secret from you friends? I told him that I will not stand for it. I also told him I called G. our ins. agent so he could change my name on the papers(G. used to play ball with H and all the other guys)

For 5 years I have been doubting why he married me. For 5 years I have always thougth my marriage was a farce. Ever since I found out that he did not want his friends to know he married me. What is he ashamed of me.

When we moved into our house, I was about 3-4 months pregnant with our last child. When she was about 6 months old, my H was sent to work out of state. We went with him for the weekend, and he came home or we went out there a least once a month to see him. My former neighbor told me that her H or kids would come home and tell her that they would see my H using the pay phone at the grocery store two blocks from our house. (We had a phone and H did not have a cell phone then. I did, H didn't). The grocery store closed shortly before he had to go outstate to work. Did she visit him out there? Has this been going on my whole marriage?
Has my marriage been one BIG HUGE F****** joke?

I want a cigerette. I officially stopped smoking when I was pregnant, and did not go back. The last 9 months or so, I keep wanting to smoke. I have bummed some on occassion. I want to go buy a pack. What good will it do me, I dont' allow smoking in my house or around the kids. I can buy them and stare at them I suppose.

Right now I want to divorce him. It is all coming back. All the pain he has caused me. All the distrust, everything.

He makes sure I don't do anything with him that includes his friends. What kind of marriage is that? A fake marriage, that is what I have one big FAKE MARRIAGE.

I am at work. I am supposed to be working. How can I. I am too upset to work. At least I have two hours to try to calm down in.

The ring, it is all to appease me. It has to be, or is it guilt. It does not matter, becaue it was given for all the wrong reasons. It feels horrible on my hand. I'll bet if I took it off, he would not even notice. After all, it does not mean anything to him.

I also found out that a couple of years ago when he replaced his original band that I gave him, she was with him. He was dumb enough to tell me.

Sometimes I really wonder if he wants me to confront him. It is the little things, or is he just getting careless?

What is the matter with me that I cannot pick a decent man. The last two men I dated were total losers, and I am including my H in that grouping. The guy before that, he was decent, just very boring. I should have stayed with him. He at least cuddled me, he neglected to tell me he loved me. He talked with me, we very seldom agreed on anything, but he at least heard me. I never should have ended it with him. After him, it has been one loser after another.

I need to vent. I lit a fire under my own butt and I want to go home and tell him exactly what I think of him. And I don't care how much I LB. I want to take my life back.

I don't want to wear that ring until he decides that he is married to me and he acts like a married man with one life and not two. He has to start being part of my friends and his friends have to be part of our life.
He has this stupid mentality that his friends are his as if he bought and paid for them. How dare I so much as say high to them. None of them even call the house, they call his cell phone to reach him.

Right now I HATE HIM WITH ALL I HAVE INSIDE OF ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marrying him was the biggest mistake of my life.

Sue,
I hope by the time you read this, you are doing better.
I read what you say about he just got the ring to appease you. Really, we don't know. He may be really wanting to break it off with her, he may have tried. Remember that he is in an addiction. It may be that he has many faults, and we know he is doing something wrong. But he may be trying.

If he was all bad, you would not have been interrested in him at all. He must have some good or you would not love him. Did you make a mistake? How can you ever know what might have been? All you can do is try and figure out what is best from now on, and do that. Don't ever make big desisions when you feel like you did last night. ( I believe you have told others that, but it's hard, isn't it?)

Please let me know how you are, I worry about you.

SS

Hi SS,

Thanks - I'm better today. We took OS to see Lord of the Rings. I didn't know he thought the first one was scary, otherwise I would have insisted on a different movie or insisted OS goes to Grandmas. OS kept leaving to go to the bathroom, I always went with him and stood outside the bathroom. So, after about the 3rd trip, I asked him, that is when I found out it was too scary for him. I asked the manager if we could go into a different movie so my H could finish watching the LOF. We saw the end of 2 week notice. Some of the stuff was above son's head, but otherwise an okay movie for a 9year old.

H and I spent the rest of the evening playing computer games.

I did calm down by the time I got home. Sort of, H was asleep, adn I cried myself to sleep.

What you said makes sense. I hope you are right.

He was very different when we met. He was very caring and attentive the first couple of years. During my pregnancy with OS, he worried about every little thing. I called the dr. so many times over every little thing, mostly to make him happy. I knew these things were normal. But he didn't, and I didn't want him to worry.

He worried about our OS, over every thing. I put it down to first time dad.

As I look back, some of how he behaved was apparant, except it was so minimal, I didn't notice it. Usually, I told him I didn't like it, and it didn't repeat itself. He got worse during my 2nd pregnancy. He had no interest in it. He didn't go to any of my appt, wheres he went to almost everyone with OS. With pregnancy with D, he was better, he could not make most of the appt with D, but he made the ones where there were events such as heartbeat. He did miss the ultrasound appt. He would ask questions about my appt.

As I look back, I wonder if he was always faithful. I remember on night, back when I was pregnant with OS, he came home with his shirt ripped. He says he was jumped, but did not want to call the police. I wonder if his psycho ex girlfriend was with him. (i'm not kidding that she was psycho). Once, he was supposed to pick up our son from my aunts, she was watching him for us. She called me, he had not yet come home. So, I went to go get OS. On my way home, I saw my H headed towards my aunts, the only thing he was on a street that a scuzzy bar was located on. A bar H used to work at, where he met psycho girlfriend. When he got home, he said that school was cancelled and he went to the casino with a couple of classmates and on the way home, the car broke down. Says it was spark plugs. I was not sure if I should believe it or not. He had my car, and well, his hands were not dirty for changing spark plugs.

I didn't say anything about the route he took to my aunts, since there could have been many reasons why he was on that road.

I am doing better today. I guess I needed a good cry. But as I look back, I'm wondering if he has a self esteem issue and needs the admoration of women, so much that he has to have one lined up incase the one he is in fails.

I am doing better today. I guess I needed a good cry.
You are not the only one, and you know it.
Glad you are better, but I reserve the right to check up on you.

But as I look back, I'm wondering if he has a self esteem issue and needs the admoration of women, so much that he has to have one lined up incase the one he is in fails.
You've seen that before here on MB, but the funny thing is that what he is doing is keeping anyone from getting really close. By trying to hedge his bets and insure success, he guarantees failure. I hope for all your sakes, he figures it out.

Do you already know that these bad times will get worse between now and the end of school? Do you have a plan to deal with them? I suppose I am just saying that as your bank gets lower and lower you will have a hard time finding enough good to keep you in your plan. What kind of help system do you have other than MB?

Sue, you are a winner, keep working - OK?

SS

Hi SS,

Thanks for your words of encouragement, and I'm glad you keep checking in.

Yesterday, was an okay day. H slept most of the day, he is not feeling well. He has been getting sick alot lately. Probably the stress of having an A.

The only down side to yesterday was, H went to his car to get his coffee thermos and his lunch box. It took him 10-20 min. I didn't time him. I just knew that it does not take that long to get items from your car.

As far as support goes, right now, my main support is MB. My sisters don't want to hear about it, my BIL who is married to one of my sisters, is supportive in my decision to try to make my M work. He also knows the OW. He says that she has a reputation for going after men who are not available. One story they told me about is, she went after her best friends H. The couple split up, after that she was no longer interested in him. The couple got back together, she tried to get back into the picture. He was smarter then my H and he told her to get lost. From what I've been told, non of her friends from a few years back will have anything to do with her. They are tired of how she has no regard for R.

Last semester I didn't have time to go to IC. Ths semester I have only one class and clinicals, so I am going to try to find a counselor who will work with my decision to try to make my M work.

My friends, well, I know they have my best interest at heart, they want me to dump him.

As of late, things have been really confusing. H has been more attentive towards me, nicer towards me, understanding of my frustrations, such as Christmas Eve, I was upset because things were not going as I had wanted. I was frustrated, he asked what was wrong, I told him, and I was not blaming him. I told him I had expectations of being able to relax and bake cookies all day and all I've done was clean, and we have to leave for his aunts and I have not even showered. In the past he would have gotten all made at me. Instead he, said leave it alone, I will help when we get back. Go take a shower so we can leave. In the car on the way to his aunts he complimented my "wash and go" look. My hair was still wet when we left. He never complimented me before.

So, he seems more attentive and loving. He cuddles me more now, where before he didn't. He is more involved with the kids. On one hand he is behaving like the man I fell in love with. Then he does the calling the OW thing, or what appears to be calling her.

He is also doing more around the house such as finally painting the bathroom. He has plans for other aspects of the house.

So, is he trying to get everything done, so he can leave without leaving anything undone, or is he starting to put family first.

As of late, he seems obsessed with topics around infidelity. Is he trying to tell me something? Is his conscience (sp) getting to him? I tried asking him, in a non confrontal way, you know, the askign without asking or accusing. I asked if he had something bothering him that he wanted to talk about. (I know lame, but I'm sort of stuck on how to ask at this point).

I sure once school starts up again, I will be able to divert my focus back on school so he will not be able to LB me so my bank is depleted.

[ December 30, 2002, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

I posted this to someone else,

I wonder, why can't H have enough respect for me to give me the same consideration?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
I have a male friend, from way back when. We ran into each other a few years ago. He wanted to do lunch. I told my H. I also told my H if he had a problem with it, i would cancel. I told my H that he mattered more to me than maintaining this friendship. (Then again, I'm not in a fog) <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Sue,

I read your last post on my thread and I got worried. I hope things are better now then they were a couple of days ago. I've been so busy with packing that I haven't had much time to ask you how you were doing. Sorry. By reading your thread you seem to be going through some tuff times right now. Damn that roller coaster. If you didn't get that, you'll have to excuse me, I haven't been much of a comedian lately.

Well you have a couple more weeks before school starts so you better go out and have some fun. You deserve it. I'm driving back to CA tonight and when I catch up on my sleep I am going out. I just want to forget what I'm going through for a couple of hours. I hope you can fit some fun time for you with out kids and H as well.

I was wondering though, Why doesn't your sister want to hear about what's going on? Is she against your decision on trying to make it work? If so her opinion doesn't matter because she's not the one going through it you are. It's always a different story when it is happening to you.

Anyways Sue hope that things get better:) You try and have a Happy New Year as well-k.

Bye for now
Depressed

Hi Depressed,

Thanks. I got the Roller coaster. I have never been much for those ride. Especially the one I'm on right now. Up and down, Up and down. I'm making myself dizzy. Speaking of roller coaster rides, last summer my H talked me into the worst one that we have at our local amusement park. He had to get the picture of me. H is laughing and I have the white knuckle job going on with the handrail. My face took on some expressions I never knew were possible to occur all at one time. Talk about fear. I also yelled some words on that ride I didn't know I knew. My H reminded me that there were young teens on that ride. My comment was, if they can handle the ride they can handle some old women yelling these words. The teens infront of us, I think were more amused by me than the ride.LOL

Seriously, today is a much better day. I'm having a few rough moments, but not like over the weekend. The worst part is, not being able to do anything to correct my situation for a few months. I know, I'm doing a Plan A, which should help (I hope).

Like I said, H surprised me with Roses for our anniversary. He has not done that in a very long time. I was shocked. I'm sad that they are now withering. He took me out to a nice dinner, and he has been nicer to me. I wish he would quit calling her. I'm sure he is calling her.

The card said he loved me. Once in a while he will tell me he loves me.

I was going to listen today to Dr. Harley on his wifes program and lost track of time. There is always Thursday. Kids go back to school soon, so I am planning on enjoying the little bit of time we have left of their Christmas break.

You have a safe drive back to CA. My H was stationed in CA for the Navy. He loved it there.

In answer to the question about my sisters. I dont' know why. They don't want to get involved. They don't want to hear about it. I've even asked if they would be willing to move in and help me with the kids so I can keep working and finish school, so I can confront my H, in case he moved out on me and left me hi and dry. Sometimes, once they are confronted, that happens.

Hello Suew/Hope -- I read your post a few days ago and vowed to catch up then, but was taking care of my three neices and nephews at my sisters house and it was nuts. I was glad to read that you're feeling better and were just needing to vent. It can be so hard because not many in our real lives understand what we're going through or why we're even trying. You've been really strong and I could tell you were having a really bad day a few days ago. I don't know why some things trigger those truly bad days, but they are there.

I don't have much in the way of advice right now as I'm feeling pretty much in a funk about my nutty WH, but wanted you to know there were others out there thinking of you.

Thanks Unsure

I know I hate the triggers. Just when you think you have it under control, they sneak out at you.

Some of my triggers are years old. Back from when he first met her.

I know what those neices and nephews are like. I have a few of them, plus my own and every so often I forget what a mad house it is to have them over.

I don't know if this will be a bad thing to do, but when it comes time to confront H, whether he wants to work on M or not, I need to address the old issues that were never addressed. I need to tell him with all honesty the doubts and fears and where and why I feel the way I do. I know some of my attitude over the last 5 years have to do with those issues. If we would have addressed them then, I don't know If we would be in this position now. But probably, because I would not have firmly made my position clear on the NC thing.

There was a point, where I think that maybe there may not have been anything going, when we first bought the house. He owed her money, she wanted it, so he told her our address. He told me she stopped by. I was not happy about it because I was at work when this occured. Did she see the house and decided that she wanted him back? Is that when she started working on him. The thing is, he may not be able to afford a house such as this in the future if we divorce and I will not give up this house. I like my house.

Thought just occured to me.

Lately, i have been having all these triggers from the past. Some big, some little.

H has in general been really good to me. Except for the Las Vegas thing. After he returned, he was nicer, more attentive, all that stuff.

Helpful with the house, somewhat. (Okay, I will have to accept that no one can do it like I do it. He comes close).

The only things he does that raise red flags is the sitting in the car thing. Most of the time, cell phone in hand.

I feel like I am not being as good to him as he is to me. Dinner and roses for our anniversary, and a ring, and a card (signed Love H). I got him a computer and forgot the card. (I know shoot me.) H commented on the lack of card.

We went to the union christmas party.
He told me I look good for not having much time to get ready (the wash and go look)
Getting the kids to leave me alone so I could study for finals.
He put up the christmas tree
He set up most of the christmas decorations for one room and did a better job than i do.
Hugs and cuddles more
wants to go to movies with me.
H wants to know if I can start work early so I can get off early on 12/31. He has never asked me to do that before. He didn't care one way or the other if I was home. (I have some flexibility in my hours that I can do that. Boss thinks it is a great idea. He does not like his staff on the roads between 11 and 1 on New Years eve night, especially if they are going home from work). Now the cynical side of me wonders, does H want me home so he can go out with OW? Okay, we won't go that route and we will assume he wants me home to celebrate as a family.
This has all been going on since his Vegas trip.

So, either it is a major case of guilt, or he really wants to make things work and is trying, or he is trying to make things good, so he can break the news to me and I won't kick him out, or he is trying to show me how good it can be, before he leaves (okay, still some cynical, I'm allowed)
I may have broke his DVD and he was not mad. I did promise to get it fixed or replace it.

STuff I did not pick up on in the past:

He got me a Tae Bo DVD to work out with for my last birthday. (can't play because I broke the DVD this past weekend)
Wanted me to get a passport so we could go on a trip (last summer)
bought me a scanner to help with school work (for my birhtday)
bought me a watch with a second hand(need for school)(first chrismas before I started Nursing school)

Probably more and I cannot think of them

Bad stuff as of late

Does not tell me he loves me

What do I do for H. Since discovery

I think I need to pick up the pace here and start adding to his bank more.

I willingly do SF, instead of making it sound like a chore
I initiate SF
I scratch his back (very itchy)
I get up and make his lunch. When ever job site changes I find out if there is a microwave. If yes, he gets meals, from leftovers. I purposely make extra.
if no, then he gets sandwiches, I try to give a good desert
Does anyone know if they still make those thermos with the wide mouths so I could put soup or chili, or maybe even spaghetti?

Laundry, I recently started putting his clothes away. (before I refused, I said he was capable)
Greet him with a smile, instead of complaints (I still need to work on this more)

Have not done, intend to do

Pack away clothes I don't wear because I gained weight. (make more room for H's stuff, right now I am hogging the closet, and he is commenting on it. Have to buy rubbermaid)

Fix zipper on jacket - He has been asking for 5 years. This one is hard for me, but I will have to do it. 7 years ago, he did not appreciate hard work I put into makeing a fathers day gift for him. Since then I have had no desire to sew for him. (time to move past this)

Pay more attention to the little complaints, change what I can. He does not complain much. It is time to recognize that if he is complaining, it probably matters.

Now that I list it out, he does more for me than I do for him. Does giving birth 3x count as a LB or deposit? LOL. I suppose it depends upon what day you ask?

I need to get to work on this.

Guys, suggestions are welcome here. This is new to me. I thought I was doing well, until I actually list it out.

I trailing and big time. When you think about it, those deposits are like keeping score. But then again, I keep score in my own way too.

SS- I put the ring back on. I cannot justify trying if I don't wear the ring. He did not say anything if he noticed. He knows I take them off to lotion my hands, so he might have figured I didn't put them on right away.

[ December 31, 2002, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi Sue,
Tell us what prompted these thoughts.
How did you get to looking at things in this way?

You have come a long way since finding MB. I hope that you can feel it, and that it helps you know you can make it to where you want to be.

I have a great deal of respect for you. You are a very good help to many others here.

Perhaps H is trying to give up OW and be a full time H. You are on the right track - people WHO ARE TRTYING need help to give up addictions. If they are not trying, then no amount of help will do any good. It is nice you can see some good. It really doesn't make sense that he would be doing so many things right if he was totally against you and wanted out.

I don't have much time and I want to post to FBOW, I am worried about her.

SS

SS - I don't know what prompted these thoughts. I was sitting at work, working and it hit me. So, I quick went out and posted as I was thinking about what he has done for me, what I have done for him. Sometimes answers come when we least expect it.

I'm on a break at work right now. Did I mention H asked me to leave work early tonight, use up the last of my vacation. It sounds like all he wants to do is have a nice evening at home to bring in the new year. It will be nice.

My New Years Resolution is to start making a consious effort to identifying his needs and meeting them better. Listen better to the little things he says and recognize that he does not complain much, so when he does, listen. I think I can make room in the closet for more of his stuff. I remember when it was opposit, his clothes took up more space and there was no space for my clothes. I felt like he was making a statement that I did not really live there, so I did not need much space. Maybe he is taking it the same way.

Sometimes the BS, can be a little dense, and it takes something, to jog our memories and have us take stock of the situation.

Have a safe and Happy New year.

[ December 31, 2002, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

HI SS- one more thing

<<<HUG>>> you have been very good to many out here. Thank you. Your words along with others have brought me back to reality many times.

Thank you.

FBOW is that forebetterorworse?

Thankyou for the nice comment and the hug, same to you.

FBOW is that forebetterorworse?
Yes, and I didn't get a chance to post to her last night like I wanted, right after I hung up from talking to you, ( that's a figure of speach BTW) my family grabbed me for a photo project on the computer at home and I helped them and then we left for dinner with W's family and I never did get back on.

Sue, if you can keep going like you are right now, you will be OK. I am excited for you - and I hope you can keep the energy you need to make it work, because I think it will really help.

Happy New Year !

I am almost ready for St Patricks day - last year. Is it just me, or does time go faster and faster every year?

SS

[ January 01, 2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

I cant seem to figure out how to post my situation on this site. Anyway, here it is: I suspect that my husband had an affair approximately 2 years ago, with a co-worker. he infatically denies it to this day. He had all of the classic "symptoms" all but lack of sex with me. I was pregnant with our third child and we weren't getting along at all. He acted like he hated me, called me fat and unattractive, but still slept with me!, he lost weight, became obsessed with his appearance, worked late(which he always has), so I didnt think anything of that, this woman (his secretary) would call our house when he was home from the office, I was always trusting and never thought anything of it. I then found a letter on his e-mail account to her. He claimed I was the wrong person for him,blah, blah, blah...needless to say, he still denies all of this. Tells me I am crazy...I actually have severed ties with a friend who works in the same town as my husband who tried to tell me he had been screwing around with this woman. By the way, the woman has 5 kids by 3 different men! I am a well-educated, sophisticated 35 year old woman! Go figure! Yes I was out of shape for a while when I had 2 kids back to back but never in a million years did I think my husband would do that to me. So here is my probelm...I can't forget about this situation, I have hounded him, pleaded with him to tell me the truth and he still denies. I have talked to my priest, I see a counselor but never could get him to admit. I know in my heart he has done this and of cousre couldn't face the consequences after the fact. He is a wonderful father and since this we have rebuilt our marriage but this feeling still lingers. My counselor tells me the truth eventually comes out but I feel that it never will and I honestly don't know what I will do when/if it does. I have always thought if you feel that your husband has had an affair than 9 times out of 10 he probably has. Why won't he admit it? I had severe post-partum depression after my third child was born but my therapy has made a huge difference in my life. I no longer feel like I am inadequate which is how he made me feel during this 6-8 month period of hell. I can't figure out if I would be more upset knowing he lied and was unfaithful or to think he made a dam fool out of me while I am sure everyone knew but me!!! Help...I need some incite from veterans!! Thank you..

Hi Serina,

Welcome to MB. As you can tell, there are many of us here.

My first suggestion is to start you own thread. You will receive better replies. You can do this by clicking on the "new topic" button at the bottom of this thread or at the bottom of any of the list of thread in any subject type. It will put you thread in that subject Type you pick.

Provide as much information as you can that you feel comfortable supplying.

My next suggestion is the book written by Dr. Harley, "Surviving an affair" This book helped me out alot.

This next part, is going to be the hardest to understand and accept. You cannot make him admit. The more you question, the more he will resist. He may never admit, and then again, he may admit when he feels safe to do so.

What is very important and I learned this, I hope in time to save my M, is don't get angry, and let the anger consume you. I was very angry, my H could not do anything right. Even when he tried I didn't appreciate what he did.

Take care adn welcome

Another day.

Started out good. H and I seem to be fine. H and S at it again. H is trying. I don't know what to do. S is being a snot. I love him dearly. He is refusing to do anything H asked him to. H is so upset right now, he says he can't do this anymore. I hope it is just frustration talking. Parenting is a very hard job. The one where we see the rewards when they are adults.

S said something to H that has H upset. H says S does not want him around. S will have to accept that his father will be there, no matter what.

I think H is upset to hear this. Well, what parent wouldn't be. It does not help, H's mom has some very unrealistic ideas about parenting. According to her, if you raise your children right, they will never fight, never talk back, always do as they are told. I know I am raising them right, and my children talk back, fight, walk away from me.

H says he will call me back. I want to call him and push to find out what happened. H does not respond to pushing. So, I guess I should wait for H to call. Or at least a little while. Give them time to calm down.

#1 S said something to H that has H very upset. H will not tell me what. I am concerned about it. H sounded like he was fighting back tears. This has me very concerned. H normally does not sound this way. He is sad. He will not open up to me. He says that he and S will work it out. I hope I am right to let them do this. Maybe this is what they need to do to build a R together.

Sue - I want to offer my 2 cents as a FWS. Your S may be able to pick up on what is going on with your H. I could tell my D was pulling away from me when I was involved in mine. That was one thing that really began to bother me. They might not realize what they are picking up on, but they know something is not right. I was also not paying her enough attention, and I was prone to be irritable with her a lot too.

It has been over a year since I ended my A and I am happier than ever being with my family. Oh yeah, I would also let him work out the relationship with S. Offer him guidance if he asks for it, but ultimately he is the one that must do the work.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks FMWB - this is hard for me to do. My S and I are very close. Sometimes, too close. He is very clingy to me. Always has been. I remember when I my mom was too sick to watch him for my anymore and I put him in a daycare center. It was a good one. I knew some of the people who worked there, my sister also used it, which is why I chosed them. My S would stand at the fence all day waiting and watching for me to come get him. He would have to be pried off of me so I could go to work. My sister started taking him for me, to make it easier. He would go readily for her. It was near when I took him out because of the cost that he started to adjust. When he started K, we had an open house. They took the kids on a tour of the school. He had to be pried off of me then too. My H went on the tour with him to help him. He is nine years old, and he still wants to sleep with me. When S was abou 20 months old, my H walked out on us. I think that affected S. When ever we would see a truck that looked like H's, S would try to run after it, calling "daddy". I would have to grab hold of him to keep him from getting run over. The first Christmas we spent apart, Christmas eve, after we came home from H's relatives, they wanted me there with the kids, S was standing at the window crying, I could not comfort him. H called, he just wanted to talk. Asked what the crying was about. I told him I didn't know. So, H talked to S on phone. S cried "I want my daddy". H tried to comfort him over the phone, it did not work. H said he was coming over. S stopped crying when he saw his truck pull up in front of apartment.

I don't know if that had anything to do with H and I getting back together or if it was a combination of things. We dated for two years and got married after that. H and S have not had the close R that S and I have. H has not been trying until the last few months. S, would always make comments about H not being home much, and that he is always gone.

I hope they can get a good R. From the day I told H I was pregnant with S, he was happy. Okay, maybe not initially. He was sort of shocked. Then he seemed happy. He would talk about plans for the future with his S. Said he wanted to be a better dad to his kids than what he had. H will not tell me what was said, and S does not remember. S slept most of the evening last night. He woke up, H made him something to eat, had him do his homework, and sent him back to bed. (it was late). This morning, S did not remeber what he said, just knew he was mad at dad. I worry about oldest S.

Hey Sue,
It sounds like you have your hands full with everything that is going on. How are you holding up?
samiace

Thanks - I am doing fine. Then again, it maybe because I am not feeling well, I cannot grasp the reality of it (LOL). My H was sick last week, I think I have it now. I want to sleep. He said that is how it started with him. I'm too foggy in the head to feel much of anything.

S sounded fine on the phone today. I will be going home soon. I'm at work right now. Decided to take some sick time and go home. Before I do, I wanted to look in on some posts. I don't post when H is home. Not sure how he will react.

Well ,it sounds like you are both hanging in there. I hope you feel better soon.

Thanks - I'm sure I will be fine by the end of the weekend.

I might get back on when I get home. I have not decided. Once in awhile, when H is doing other stuff, I get on here.

Sue. I found your posts.. You have been so kind and helpful to me and I just wanted to say THANKS and hugs to you.. How do you do it? Pure strength and a will to be the great person that yoou are. I am sorry that u cannot post whenn hubby is there, I make mine read some oof this so he can see what a loser he really is for doing what he did..GOOD LUCK to you......L

Hi Sue,
My time online has been really limited, but I wanted to see how you are doing. I hope you are not still feeling ill.

You went through a lot of different emotions during the holidays, what has come out of it all?
Or in other words, after all the up's and down's, what are you feeling now about relationship with H?

I hope you got some rest, and are ready for school. If you are like many of us, you stayed up too late, and are still tired. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Let us know.
SS

Hi,

Thanks all,

SS - I am still tired, I have another week before school starts. Right now, I am feeling good about H and relationship. H was going to go to our "strong Families" meeting yesterday, except he has been sick for about a week. I've been trying to convince him to see a Dr. He won't do it. I hope he does not have pneumonia. He is very tired when he gets home from work. It doesn't help any that he is working outdoors right now.

I was probably not very clear about not being able to post when Hubby is home, I could post, I don't want him to see my posts right now. I don't go to any lengths to hide it. If he went into the History and stuff, he would find this site. I don't log out, so it would probably pull up with my name on it. H, has very little confidence in counseling. His mom used to force him and his brother into counseling on a regular basis for normal sibling behavior. As adults, they both laugh about it. They have a 6 year age difference, and she expected them to be the best of buds growing up and could not understand why they were not close. Well, what does a 12 year old have in common with a 6 year old. Nothing. Now as adults, they are great friends.

H is willing to go to family counseling for our oldest, so that is progress.

Hey Sue, just checking in on you again. How are things with your H and your son lately? I have to tell you I admire your strenght, I don't know how you do it sometimes. I'd go off the deep end if I had the information you did, but sometimes that's not such a good thing...

Watch your H's sickness, the President at our company let a cold or allergies go too long and ended up with bacterial pnuemonia, and landed in the hospital.

Hi FMWB,

Well, I ended up taking H to urgent care last night. He got some dirt in his eye when he was leaving work and it would not flush out. I suggested to him to tell them about his cold, and ask for a chest x-ray. As usual, he prushed me off. Of course I knew they would listen to his lungs, especially since, I knew he would end up coughing while in there. They didn't give him an x-ray, but they did give him a prescription for an antibiotic and an inhaler. He sounded 80% better this morning. So, we go in for his eye and leave with his illness being checked into.

They don't think he has pneumonia, but they did feel he would benefit from this.

Nothing new in the marriag area. Things are somewhat better. He is nicer to me, more considerate and stuff. I don't know if he is still involved with her or not. I suspect so, but I think it has scaled back some.

Right now, most of the time, the issues are stuff within myself. I want answers, I want to know why, I want to know why he did it, why he didn't talk to me, what is so special about her that he goes to vegas with her, what was so special about her that he left me and the kids 7 years ago, what was so special about her that he was/is protective of her, why he won't be honest with me. All the normal whys. That is what gets to me the most. I can shove those back most of the time, and why does he continually blame be for what happened in the past. Okay, he stopped blaming me, whe I said, whoa, I will not take the blame for you packing your truck and walking out the door, that was a choice you made. I told him I will take the blame for my attitude, I will not take the blame for his overspending, and his almost nightly softball games, and being in the bar. I told him, he chose to do those things. I chose to be angry about it. I will take responsibility for my behavior not his. He has not brought it up since.

[ January 09, 2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Good for you for standing your ground. He chose NOT to work on his family life and make it a priority, not you.

I am a very mischevious person... I would make him a bit worried I might have a OM on the side myself. Most WS's can't stand that possibility. That's me though...

If you ever want to talk, I'm here.

Hi Sue,
You seem to be improving. I read your posts around the board, and you have positive answers and advice. I hope this reflects your own life, and I hope you are doing well. ( That, and school started today, so I hope you don't have a hangover from that.)

You have made some positive changes, any reaction from H?

SS

Hi SS,

Things seem to be improving with H. He is home more. He has not gone to any movies "alone" lately, or 3 hour trips to the hardware store for a box of nails and does not come home with the nails.

He has been affectionate lately.

My class officially starts tomorrow, I had to stop by the school to make sure I had everything. Didn't want to show up unprepared.

Ran into my last semester instructor. She is great. She is one of those instructors that wants to see all her students do well.

Most days I'm doing good. The last couple of days I have been tired on and off, when I have energy, I seem to use it up quickly, like making 6 batches (not dozen) of cookies and 4 loafs of banana bread. I like to cook and rarely have the time, so when I do it, I do it. Well, at least we will have some homemade cookies in the house for a couple of weeks. I put them in freezer bags and them in the deep freezer.

I tried answering a post this morning, I don't really recall who's, and I was so tired, I was incoherant to myself (LOL), so I figured if I didn't know what I meant, no one else will either.

Thanks,
Good to know how you are doing, I was just checking in, I figure you are OK, but it's nice to know.

I am glad you are getting a little more from H, but I know good days come and go. Try to stay "up".

Does your mother know you stay up this late posting? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

[ January 13, 2003, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,

I expect ups and downs. I really hope this change in behavior at home is an indication that things are over between him and OW.

I know I recently had a trigger, it angered me, I quickly got over it. My H has a friend K, he was married to Kr. K would cheat all the time on Kr. Kr was the devoted loving wife, kept a good home, made K's lunches all the time, did not expect K to help out around the house at all. Both worked full time, K worked 40 hrs a week at a good paying hourly job, Kr worked 40+ hours per week at a "career" labeled type job, salaried. Many times Kr would have work at the ball field while K was playing ball. Kr had an A of her own. (both wrong). My H, acted like it was okay for K to have multiple A's, but he was totally disgusted that Kr had an A. Kr left K for her OM. I'm not sure if my H is more upset that Kr left and hurt K, or if he is disgusted that she had an A. I told my H, both were wrong, and I told H, I don't understand why you are disgusted with Kr, but you act like K is a saint, when he was cheating for a long time, and C was not the first time. I found out all of this after Kr packed and left. It makes me mad that H acts like it is okay for guys, but not okay for women.

SS- one more thing, my mother knows everything I do. I don't tell her anything, she knows.

Today has been a day full of triggers. Mostly old triggers from the past.

Today I hate my situation, I wish it was June and I passed state boards.

Sorry about the triggers.

I know all of us have problems and bad days but I hate it when it happens, for me, or anyone else.

You never did say if you picked the smoking back up, I hope you were able to stay away from that.
Funny the things that come to mind when I post.

Keep working on things, and don't give up. I see the suggestions that you shouldn't stay in plan A more than 3 months. I can't see how you would want to end yours before school is out, even though it is hard and you are sick of things, it seems the best route to go for you.

I think back over your story and I don't have anything else to recommend right now. You have a goal, and need to make that goal. If you can make the M work at the same time, so much the better.

How are H's spending habits? Any change there?
One of the things you will need from him to be happy long term is POJA about how the money is spent. (that's the reason I bring it up.)

Is he still nicer to you and home more often?

Heres to a better day for you tomorrow.

SS

PS, Cerri gives great advice and is a lot smarter than I am ( more focused too.) You should listen closely to her, and take her up on the offer of coaching, you won't get any better help. That's your chance to make things better, take it!!

[ January 17, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,

Smoking, lets not talk about that. On and off I have been. I have a cigerette, feel guilty, go a couple days, and have another. Same cycle. I've even thrown almost full packs away. (When I was a full blown smoker, I never would have thrown away any cigerettes). I have noticed, that if I have a pack on me, I don't want them as much. So, I might just have to keep a pack around.

Cerri, sounds like she would be a great contact.

I do value your advice.

You are right, I have to finish school first. If I was to throw in confronting H and making telling him to choose, well, right now, it would just be one more thing for me to handle. So all I can do is Plan A. (being a doormat is hard for me to do, I've changed my technique on how I handle things).

Money, I control it (sort of). I pay the bills, he knows if there is not enough for bills, it is his that will not get paid. (He didn't believe me until I did it to him and he could not use his charge card). I also look over the statement carefully. I question everything, and if there is too many cash withdrawals, I let him know it too.

I think this has been going on for more than just a year when I first got snoopy. I suspected within our first year of marriage. I couldn't catch him. And, he was treating me pretty good, so I dismissed it as being overly suspicious because my trust level was on the low side, after all, he has a prior history of his being unfaithful to me with this person. He is getting sloppy now. A year ago, I got my hands on his cell phone bill. Didn't like what I saw. With the help of a coworker, and the net, did some searches on phone numbers, found where she works. With what I found out, it explained alot of trips downtown. He had no reason to be downtown. Now, he spends too much time in different area, she was transferred. The phone numbers now go with a different office, same financial institution.

H is home more, but I don't think it is over. I'm guessing they talk alot.

We were in our house about a year, when H was asked to go work in Detroit. I was all for it, partly because, I was hoping that his being a way would put distance between him and her, in case I was right. Well, it did not work.

She has a history of going after MM. Once she breaks up the M, she moves on.

I know the longer I wait to say anything, the longer they can continue. It give me the chance to Plan A, also gives the chance to have a good job for my kids. That matters alot to me, being able to support my kids. I hated it when I was always one paycheck away from welfare. I will not be in that position again.

Hey Sue,

Sorry I haven't really been catching up on your thread but well you know been having a couple of hard weeks. I did however read it today. Not all of it because I have to get some lunch ready for S.

From what I did read though I wanted to tell you, I think your doing the right thing about not confronting him till school is out. It would be another thing for you to handle. Your plate is too full as it is so wait till you get school done.

You and I both wish that it was June already. Actually I wish it was November and me done with my boards but then I have another year and a half for the RN.

I too find that I smoke less having a pack of smokes around. When I don't have it I keep wanting one and when I do I just say I'll smoke later and never get around to it. Well not never but... Although lately I've been smokeing 2-3 a day. I'm ok when I'm at school but when I get home it's a different story.

I know it's difficult for you to not confront husband but I just wanted to tell you that your doing good so far and you can keep doing it till June.

Also I just wanted to thank you for being there for me and giving me advice. You and a few others have gotten me through one of the hardest situations I've ever been in. I'm doing so much better now and if you read my thread you'll know why. I hope that one day you can feel the way I do and I know that with out you having all the answers to your questions you wont but when you do You'll feel like weight has been taken off your shoulders.

I'll pray for you to get through this as I did. Mel

Hi Mel,

Thanks

I did not come on over the weekend. Too busy. I checked h's cell phone, I see they are still in phone contact. Sometimes I wonder if the "unkown" call that are hang ups are her. We have had this phone number for almost 3-4 years. Hardly got any hang ups. Now we get about one a day. Some I'm sur are the computerized telemarketers. Those should stop soon. Telemarketers don't call on Sundays and yesterday was an obvious hang up.

Even though they are in phone contact, H is home more. This weekend, the only time he was gone was for about 30 min, when he went to the store. Now, he did not have enough time to meet with her. Call her, yes, meet no.

H went to the store and came back with PJ's for both of us. I know this sounds like "so what". My H thought this was a big deal, and kept asking if I was happy with them. Wanted to know if they were comfortable and soft. Also pointed out that they were the same style, except his was more masculine.

Hmmmm, the buying PJ's for the two of you is interesting.... You just never know what is going on in the mind of a WS. He could be wanting to end the EA, but doesn't know how. Sometimes they even realize how wrong the A is, and how much easier life would be w/o it, but they don't have the will power to just cut it off.

I have to say I am amazed at your strength Sue, I couldn't go so long with out saying something. Especially if her number is showing up on his cell phone.

Something else happened over the weekend. Maybe unrelated and maybe not.

Monday, my H had to come home early from work. No work to do. I had an appt. He wanted me to look at something before my appt, so we took seperate vehicles since that meant I had to go straight to my appt then to work. After we left the store, he calls me over to his car and asked me if this black mark was dirt. At first I gave it a quick glance and said yes, looked againg, saw a definite pattern, rubbed it, determined it was spray paint. We bought the car brand new last April. Now, he used his car Sunday during the day, he would have noticed it then. We park in the street in front of the house, (garage is at back of house and we cannot see it very well from the windows. Almost everyone on my side of the block park in front for the same reason). Now, my car was untouched, the other cars on the block were untouched. I called the two stores he visited, they did not receive any complaints of vandalism, one even offered to review there survellance tapes. I declined, It would be alot of work for her to do that. I called the police to see if any reports were filed, they responded to the negative. So, my conclusion is either my H's car was randomly targeted, it was there longer than he thought (not likely, he notices every little thing about the car), or do we have a mad OW?

The whole time we lived in this house, we have never had any incidences of vandalism, we frequent these two stores, never any incidence, my family and his family frequent these stores, they have never had any problems either.

Now for the good news. We got the car for 0% financing, so we took advantage of some of the extra's that are offered, such as "paint protection" Good thing we did. H took car to car wash, some of it came off, he took a rag and the rest buffed off.

What helps me to keep my control, is I keep telling myself to stay focused on my goal. Somedays it is really hard to do. The longer I do it, the easier it gets.

I have to, it is for the better good. I realize that if the A is not on the way out the door, I risk losing him because it is going on longer. I am willing to take that risk. Also, it give me more time to give him a reason to want to be home.

He has commented that I am nicer to live with lately. He says I still have my moments, but it is better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There are times, he has commented on how he does not want to be a parent anymore. He says those things when the kids are not listening, fighting with us, or amongst themselves. I understand the feeling, pre children sure was alot less stressful. I don't go ballistic on him when he says it. I agree with him and remind him that this is all part of the parenting stuff. Take the good with the bad, and hope it gets better as they get older. (I also remind him we still have teen years to get through).

Hi Sue,
Is it getting warm there yet?

I continue to admire what you have learned. One of the reasons that I respect you so much is what you say in this next few sentences.

What helps me to keep my control, is I keep telling myself to stay focused on my goal. Somedays it is really hard to do. The longer I do it, the easier it gets.
Do you know that some people never realize that it gets easier if you keep doing it?

Also, it give me more time to give him a reason to want to be home. He has commented that I am nicer to live with lately. He says I still have my moments, but it is better.
We always wonder how we are doing, and if we are making progress in our improvements. Isn't it nice to have him say you are improving. I know that no matter how good we are, we can still improve. It makes me sad to see some come here and blame everything on the WS. I know that no one should seek someone outside the marriage, but almost always the BS need to make some kind of changes. I am so happy you are seeing how to make things better and doing something about you. It has to help things, even if much of the problem is his fault.

There are times, he has commented on how he does not want to be a parent anymore. He says those things when the kids are not listening, fighting with us, or amongst themselves. I understand the feeling, pre children sure was alot less stressful. I don't go ballistic on him when he says it. I agree with him and remind him that this is all part of the parenting stuff. Take the good with the bad, and hope it gets better as they get older. (I also remind him we still have teen years to get through).
I wonder if almost all of us think this at one point or another in our lives. Kids can be - well, they are kids. He may think he has an escape route if he wants it, but still I wonder just why he said it. I am happy that the two of you can have talks about these things, and I am glad you did not get angry. Far better to try and figure out why he said it and address what ever it is. ( Could just be his personality defects, but I think you can work on this one slowly over some months and find out some more. ) You have learned a lot here, I think you are much like me in that when you read posts and see ways to improve you, you make the changes and do the improving. ( I know, it's slow, isn't it)

Teenagers are difficult, but I hope by then both of you are working as a team and it is easier for you.

Keep up the good work and I'll see you around.

SS

[ January 23, 2003, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS

Why does my H think what he does? Probably because all his life, he has been taught to avoid conflict. His mother does it, his brother does it, and H does it. H's mother kicked H out when he was 15 because she did not like his girlfriend and refused to quit seeing her. Her only reason why she did not want H to date this girl was because H's aunt did not like her.

So H moved in with his dad. Dad is an abusive alcoholic, who lived above one of the sleaziest bar that hookers frequented, in the worst part of town. Good place for a teenage boy. His mom is like that, if you do not do it "my" way, get out. She learned with me, it does not work. She tried once. I was living in her home with my kids (just the boys). I told her to stop undermining my authority as their mother, she told me to leave. So, then next day, I packed up mine and the kids stuff, called my sister, she helped me move our stuff and I was out of there.

(We were living there trying to save downpayment money for a house). At the time it did not make sense to get tied to a lease when we were looking for a house.

She did not see the kids for a year. Everytime I considered letting her see the kids, my H's cousin's wife, would tell me the latest nasiest thing they said about me. My thought on it was, as long as they are bad mouthing me, they will not see the kids. I will not have them bad mouth me to my kids. Right after I first left, H stayed behind, I told him to, since we didn't know were we were going, and I still had stuff there, so I asked him to pack it and bring it to storage for us. We (kids and I) went to go pick up H to go out to breakfast, his mom was out at the time. She came home just before we left, she told my oldest son to not listen to anything I had to say, I was lying to them and trying to fill his little head with "evil" stuff about grandma, and that I was "evil". I immediately removed the kids, told H, I will wait outside for him.

I have to remind myself that H did not have good example of conflict resolution within a family.

Hi Sue,
I haven't been around the board much except for GQ2. I don't know if you are on a lot or not.

I get along really well with MIL, I would hate to have one like yours was. How is it now with her? Better?

I just wanted to see how you are doing with school and see if you are still feeling good about things.

Any supprises with school starting? Or is it going about like you thought it would?

SS

[ January 28, 2003, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,

School - I wish it was over. We just had a math test, which to pass you had to have 100%. I understand the reasoning. It was a medical dosage math quiz. I missed 2. I think I know which two. It was a two parter, and I blew the first part, so that meant the second part was wrong too.

On the plus side, I get to take it again. And I'm not alone. Out of 82 students - 22 got 100%. Every semester we get the same type quiz, last semester I got 100%. I dont' know why I had troubles coming up with it this time.

I practiced the problems too.

School, trying to get back into the swing of things.

How are things on the homefront - I don't know. H goes back and forth between being a great H and a jerk. He did disappear once for a short time, but he returned much earlier than I expected.

He has made comments again about not wanting to be a father any more. I don't know if he means it or if it is frustration talking. I asked him and he avoided the question. I wanted to say "sorry guy, too late to make that decision" I have my moments where I miss the pre children life. What I miss is the freedom to do what I want, when I want, but I don't miss it that much. If someone offered me that life back, I would turn it down. I would never give up my children.

My classmates were trying to get me to call in at work and go to the bar. I said no, I have work, I have responsibilities at work, I have children to support, I have a mortgage to pay. Then another one asked, so, is this what it is like to work full time. I said yes. Then they asked if H and I wanted to joing them Sat night. I said no, this weekend we have Dance, hockey, a wedding, a birthday party and hockey again. The kids pretty much take up the weekends. I dont' mind. A couple of them in the group want kids. With their lifestyles, they will need to make some major changes or they should reconsider becoming parents at this time. They live for the next party.

Oh and yeah, things with MIL are better. She does not over step her bounds anymore.

I hope the way things have been going are a goo indication of an improvement in our M.

H has been taking on more responsibilities at home. When it has snowed H shoveled. in the past I shoveled. This morning, I was taking out he recycling before the recycle truck came, H was out shoveling, I came by with a shovel to help. He had it all done. He started throwing snow balls at me. I threw back. I had to go in to make sure the kids are getting ready for school, I turned my back on him, next thing I know, I'm in a snow pile on my back. He helps me up, and puts his cold hands on my back. It was fun, cold, but fun. I don't recall us ever having some impromtu fun like that.

Last night, we came home from our son's bowling party. The neighbors were out having a snowball fight with their kids. Our kids joined in. Next thing we know, H and I join in, and it becomes kids against the grown ups.

Today we went sleding with out D. It was such fun. I'm paying the price physically for it. I don't think my legs will be the same again after going up and down the hill. The down was the easy part, it was the up that is the killer. Even H is complaining and he has a physical job.

I'm so happy to hear things seem better. Why is it women are usually less bothered by the time children take up?

I feel for you going to school with youngsters, they have no idea what's coming!

Take care!

Sue,
All I am seeing here is good news. Did tinkerbelle sprinkle fariy dust on the two of you or what is happening? It's almost like you have been reading HNHN and applying what you learned!

He is considering moving to CA. He came up with this on his own?

If this is what you hope it is, then I am very happy for you.

Sue, I believe you should keep trying, it looks like it is paying off for you. I suspect you even feel better about your self. True?

SS

[ February 04, 2003, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,

Yes I do feel better about myself. He has always hinted about missing CA, ever since he left the Navy. He was married then. Married his HS sweetheart. She wanted to come back to home, so they did. I don't really know what went wrong, he says they were too young when they married and they grew apart. Was that really the case???? I will not know. Anyway, they divorced, we met and now we are married.

Anyway, he started hinting stronger, since we have been discussing selling the house. We don't like where we live. Love the house, hate the city. I was thinking we would move to the city next door. I grew up there. The two are right next to each other and they are totally different in identity. Kids attend school in the district I want to live in, not the district we live in. He wanted to know if I would be able to work in CA after I finish school. I told him probably, I know the test I take is a national test. I would have to check into that states requirements. I might be minus a class or two. I asked why, and he said how he has always wanted to go back to CA, he thinks I would love it there. Also threw in a plug for the weather not beating up the homes in CA as they here. I take this as a positive sign with his R with her. Maybe she is an xOW?

I replaced the DVD I broke today. It would have cost more to fix the other one than to buy the one I bought on sale.

H has been more affectionate and considerate. Last night was our last night with the building families group I attended with the kids. H managed to get out of each on in the past. This one, he considered getting out of, last night was also his brothers birthday, wanted to go out with his mom and brother for dinner. H decided to attend strong families instead. AFter that was over, then he went to see his brother. I was impressed. I told him he could go to his brother, that he did not have to come. I'm glad he did. I'm also glad he got to celebrate his brothers birthday with him.

It really makes me happy lately to read your posts. You are so positive !!

I hope it continues to improve. Please keep it up!

SS

Thanks - you have been a big help. Sometimes all it takes is an objective observer.

Sometimes I want to check the phone bill online, but right now I am too happy and I don't want anything bringing me down. Even if they are on a daily talking, how long can that last? Especially since he does not have time to see her, and he is home more. Even his attitude has changed. His tone is different. Before, I knew he was flying by the seat of his pants in trying to come up with where he is going/what he did. Now, he isn't.

Did I mention that he is even shoveling the snow this year? I recall 8 years ago, december, I was pregnant with our middle child who was born in January. H's brother was home on leave. Snow fell, I mentioned to my H that it needed to be shoveled, and since his mom was at work and she owned the house, if someone slipped, she would be responsible. Both of them ignored me. So, there I am pregnant and shoveling the snow. H's comment to me after I was done, see, it got done. I don't mind you doing it. Talk about a change. Now, he is doing it.

Sue,
I can see a confidence in you that wasn't there before. Whatever you are doing must be working. I just hope he continues to support you and help you. It is so much easier to continue to do good when the spouse helps.

I meant what I said on the other thread. You have a lot of ability and you are a smart gal. I suspect you will do well in school, I suspect if your marriage can be fixed, you will find the way.

It's funny what you say about shoveling snow, many of us are lazy, I wonder if my W has stories like that about me that I can't remember any longer. Oh well, we can always get better.

SS

still here, been real busy with school and stuff

I almost wrote to you last night and I laughed out loud and said that very thing. " I bet she is busy with school."

I would say have fun but you won't.

At least try not to cry on your homework.

SS

I'm waiting for the results of our first test for this semester. I'm worried I failed it.

Everytime I walk out of the test thinking I did good, that is the test I fail. Everytime I walk out worried that I failed, that is the ones I pass.

I left this test thinking I did good. I did not have to agonize over the questions. I read it, picked my answer, and went with it. So now I'm really worried, because I was not worried when I walked out.

I know this makes no sense, but it is the pattern I've noticed.

I recall one Adult and Aging psychology course, I thought I did a minimum of a B on the test. I wanted to cry when I got the results back. I got a "D". I managed to pull the D up to a C, by the end of the class.

Things are going okay at home. H, sometimes reverts to old behaviour for a day or two, then he comes back again. But you know, this is not my problem. He will have to deal with it. At least he is home most of the time still.

Forgot to add, this week was the week from you know where.

Every Tues & Wed, clinicals for the next 3 weeks. Class on Thurs, have to arrange a community service project, a presentation, preceptorship, prepare for boards, and about 4 other misc. papers. If I find myself by the end of May, I will be surprised. Most days, I don't know if I'm coming, going, leaving, or what. Lets not forget Dance on Saturdays, Hockey on Saturday and Sunday. Oh well, if my life was not busy, I'd be bored.

Good news, I passed. 82 out of 100. The one thing I hate about our tests, is there is more than one right answer. Sometimes, you can overthink and over analyze the question and answer wrong. I do that alot.

I am so mad I could scream. So here it comes, plug your ears. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
That felt good.

Why did I want to scream? it started with on our way to breakfast this morning. H asked the strangest question. H wondered how our D would be if she had a baby sisters. He thougth probably bossy. So, I questioned if there was another child, or one on the way. He denied both. So, I have to ask, why sister, why not brother, or sister or brother. We cannot have anymore children, I had a tubal.

So, I was talking to a coworker, bouncing possiblilities off of her. One I came up with was, that there is an OC, and H is feeling me out. See my reaction. Especially since, he told me last summer that OW has cancer. The cancer came up around the time we were planning a summer vacation, so I blew it off, as she was worried that he was going to end it. After all, this was the first family vacation we have ever went on.

So, one of my many speculations is that she does have cancer, possibly terminal, there is an OC, and he is trying to see my reaction. Follow me.
My coworker told me at work we have a database that has public records. She knows who works in that department and they could do a search for us. Well, I got nosey, found the database, and did a search on H. Wanted to see if relatives came up. I showed up under his report. Well, I was surprised to see what showed up on the report as to others who lived at prior addresses under his name. When H was working out of state, she showed up under the same address. So, I searched on her name. She pulled up two records, one for current address and one for out of state address, same as H's. I did not expect this one.

H went out of state to work when our D was 6 or 7 months old. This was a mutually agreed upon work assignment. Except we agreed he would go for 3 months, he was gone 9 months. She was out there for 7 months. Work was slowing down here, I had injured my back, missed some time from work. H thougth he could go work some OT, and make enought to make up for my loss income. The scale was higher out there, plus they were doing 10-20 hours per week in OT. Now, I wonder if my hurting my back was the excuse he was looking for to go out of state to work. Was she PG, and wanted her out of state, so none of her friends would see her, and have it get back to me? She has friends that are friends of my sister. You have no idea how much I want to throw it at him. I printed it off.

One more thing I found our recently. When H and I married, we could not afford much in the line of rings, so we bought plain wedding bands. The summer after H returned home, one night he comes home with a different ring. Shows it to me, and says he bought it to replace the one I gave him when we married. Recently, he was foolish enough to tell me that when he went to get his new ring, OW was with. She had a friend that worked there, and gave him her discount. I told him, I want to trade that ring in for a different one because it is not right that another woman is with while he is picking out his wedding ring. I told him, that I should have been with him. To me that ring is tainted, and insult to our marriage, and it says that he thinks our M was one big joke. How do I know, they didn't do some so called, soul marriage. By that I mean the pledged their love for each other, and it is not legal, but to them emotionaly binding. I want to throw the printouts I made and ask him to explain this.

He must think I am such an idiot. May is not that far away. Boards are only a couple of months after that.

When I came home, it took all I had to keep from crying in front of him. the only thing I could do was be distant. It will take a day or two for me to regain my composure, and I can go back to pretending that I have a normal marriage. I guess I will just add it to the long list of things that show our marriage was never real.

I am in a really pissy mood right now. I read a couple of threads, I am not in a mood to be replying to anyone. My response has been around the lines, of dump the loser, he/she is not worthy of you, and he/she deserves to rot under the rock they crawled out from under, except the rock refused to take them back. I have to get out of this slump. I need to make it until graduation and boards. My mood is reflecting into my parenting. Normally I am compassionate with my kids, and I have to ignore them right now, because if I don't, I might say something to them I will regret. I hate this life.

Hi Sue,
just read your latest post.
First of all, so far it's all gut feeling and speculations about OC, tha only facts you have are the common addresses.

So, before your emotions will make you act right away, reconsider your plan of finishing school first ( few hard work months away) rather than confrontonging right now.

Because it's you choice - to live in uncertainty and suspicion for the next few few months OR receive more lies OR to get a truthful answer which may or may not make those remaining few months of school harder than they already are.

IMHO, you could wait, I always admried you for you plan and sticking to it despite many times surprising and hurtful actions of your H. Unless you know you can't wait with the proof you have right now and any true fact would be better than uncertainty.

Would the fact you would be more independent after finishing your school affect you reaction to OC ( if there is one) and the decision about raising him/her if the need arises?

FBOW

Common sense keeps trying to nudge in, what you discovered was the past. Yes, it confirms what you suspected that he has been unfaithful your whole marriage. As of the last two months, things have been better. How many lies will I uncover before it does not matter. All I wanted to do, was to find out if he was hinting that there might be a child in the mess of things, and prepare myself for it. I did not expect to find that. I have to get out of this mood. My children don't deserve it. They deserve their loving mom back

Hi FBOW,

Thanks. I have to stick with my plan and my goal. It is best option in the long run. I need to be able to support my kids if things turn out that way. I have to be strong about this.

If there is an OC, my reaction to him/her will be the same whether I finish school or not. Lets assume h was telling me the truth and she has cancer, and the possiblility of an OC exists. H wants to work on M. Could I accept OC? I'd like to think that I am mature enough to, and to love that child in time as I love my own. I know that OC had no say in the circumstances OC was born into.

I know, finishing school is what i have to do. If I confront H now, it will be harder for me to accomplish my goal, because 1) H could walk, 2) H might stay, and I will want answers, which he will not provide, so increased tension 3) H will say he is only staying until I finish school, and that will be increased tension because I will want to tell him to get out.

So, confronting now, has a higher chance of being a lose-lose situation vs a win-win. Then again, infidelity is a lose-lose situation all around. The question is, will it turn into a win-win or a lose-lose.

Thanks- I have calmed down now

Sue,
Remember why they call this a roller coaster ride?

I think you did a good job on this one with the logic. Really you do need to focus on what will happen the next few months, doing well in school, and your children. Nothing you learn will change that .

I am sorry for the pain that comes and goes. It' s hard do know what to say, even though I know you are feeling better now, the hurts still hurt, and it takes time to get back to where you can perform the way you want.

I wish I could get around more, these last few weeks have been - well, busy, but that is an over used word. Sorry I didn't come by sooner.

Remember that you live now, in the present, and keep working to make things better. I still think you have it in you to do all that you need to do. I really do.

SS

As usual, I am amazed at your strength Sue. Just keep looking down the road to the day you can tell him the gig is up. The look on his face should be priceless.

I'm sorry you are hurting. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I'm okay now. Thanks for everyones responses. Even though this occured back when I suspected, it was still a shock to find it out.

Just needed a little reality check.

Just finished another round of clinicals. This round was the worst I've had. I almost quit it was that bad. (And no, I did not kill anybody or give a wrong med.). I just was given to hard of a patient load in my opinion for a student. An experienced Nurse would have probably done great. Students have restrictions, which we should for patient safety. Somethings we can do alone, other things need to be checked to make sure we have everything correct, and other stuff we have to have an RN or Instructor present. What gets you behind is when you have to have a Nurse or instructor present or check it first. You have to find someone, then wait for them to come to you. This can be very time wasting. I try to fill those times up with paperwork, but even then if it is all done, not much can be done, but wait. Next week I hope will be better.

Sue, I'm new here but I have read all of your posts with astonishment, I really admire you for keeping your mind so focused on your goals. You are definitly a strong woman. I have a few questions for you if you wouldnt mind answering. I too suspect my H is cheating. I cannot prove it however, He works in a hotel as a maint. supervisor, I suspect he is cheating with someone that works there. I dont know who. You had mentioned you did some kind of a check on your H how did you do it? What kind of check was it? How much did it cost? This is my second marriage my first was abusive to both me and my twin daughters(now 15) I met my H 2yrs after divorcing my ex. This was his 2nd marriage also. I have trust issues with him he is a very private person does not talk about his past much. My ex about 2 weeks ago told me the reason my H got a divorce from his 1st wife is that he had several affairs on her. I have been suspecting him since he took this maint. job in August.Just different things have triggered my suspicions. Cell phone #'s, getting called into work for various reasons little things. I questioned him he denyed. But since I have these suspicions, it blew me away when my ex told me he had several affairs on his ex. Now mind you I do not speak to my ex at all so he would have no idea of my suspicions. My H tells me he has done a lot of things in the past he is not very proud of but cheating is not one of them. I'm really having a hard time with this it is driving me absolutly crazy this "gut feeling". In December I was so stressed out from it I came down with shingles. If you can help me in any way with any info, I would appreciate it.
My self confidence is really taking a nose dive here I really wish I could be strong like you. If you have any tips on that, they would be appreciated too.

Thanks for listening
Paula

Hi Paula,

This strength I have, we all have, it comes from within. The first time my H cheated on me, I was a wreck, went to counseling, the whole bit, he had be convinced I was crazy. In time, I came to realize it was all a manipulative mind game. Once I came to that realization, I was able to get stronger. (I refer to it as the first time, is becuase, I thought it was over, I now question if it ever ended). I stay strong because my goal to finish school and achieve my degree is very important to me. If it wasn't, then it would be hard for me to stay focused on it. I realize that my goal means as much to me as my children do.

If you suspect, then it is probably true. You see, I suspected my whole marriage. I questioned many things, but I blew it off as my being distrustful because of the past.

How did I find out stuff, well, you have a computer, use that as your friend. Be prepared, you may not like what you see. Cell phone, most cell phone companies put the bills on line. Use reverse look up to see where the call are going to or coming from. Spyware can be downloaded onto the computer, I think it cost about 100/ give or take. When my H went to Vegas, I called the hotel. I have the advantage that I always knew her name. I asked if she checked in yet. Later I called back and said I was looking for two friends, and I don't know if they have the same room or seperate rooms, they confirmed they were sharing a room and connected me. It took all my strength to not leave a message "BUSTED". H met her through a mutual friend. This friend never intended for them to hook up. She apologized to me so many times, she felt so bad. H was introducing friend to a friend of his. She brought her with because she did not want to go to the bar alone. Next thing I know, H is hooked up with this other girl. I found out where she worked because her work has a website, it has her name listed under the contacts.

It is hard, very hard. When I first found out I was destroyed, as I said, I thought we worked it out, and she was gone. When I first confirmed that it was not over between them was about a year ago. I was back where I was the first time, except, he was still there. I went into a depression. I didn't eat for a while, eventually, my body took over and made eat. I practically choked on it. H was with me. He know something was wrong. He noticed my change in behaviour. I remember leaving work most days, and it would take all I had to keep my composure until I made it to my car, and I would let go and start crying and screaming, cursing god, cursing the world, wishing I was dead. After awhile, I got stronger, found this website, talked to a couple of attorneys. Came to the conclusion that I had to decide what was important right now and stay focused. With each discovery it hurts, I get made, but I don't go into the depression anymore. The hardest part for me is wondering why did he marry me if he didn't want to end it with her. I question if he ever loved me or did he marry me because of the kids, the child support he was paying me, what? Who knows. Maybe I will never know. Having a goal to stay focused on helps. I used to dread breaks from school, because my distraction was gone and I would start to think about it again.

The beginning is the hardest part.

There was a post I saw a while back from "watchdog". He gave some pointers. He said he is/was a private investigator. You can purchase relatively cheaply audio recording devices. I never did.

One of the things that helped me to confirm, was, when H would start to go places, I said I will go with, he said no, he will not be gone long, and he was gone for hours. He also never came home with the one item he went for. Snoop in the car for receipts. I question all the time receipt out to lunch that are for two. Does he use the Debit card to pay for things, go over the bank statement with a fine tooth come. I never hesitated to question anything on the bank statement that did not look right.

I don't see doing a Plan A as being a doormat or anything like that. You still have to maintain your self respect, and you cannot allow them to disrespect you. Once that starts, it is hard to get it back. And that can be done in a respectful manner.

I hope I answered your questions. If not, ask more. I also suggest starting your own thread. There are many out here who is of tremendous help.

Take care

How does he react when you question him about these inconsistancies? Isn't it terrible that he can sit there and watch you suffer and do nothing about it. Make sure you are covering your bases legally. Don't let him take from you any more than he has.

He tries to react as if all is okay. I know his tone of voice when he is hiding something and when he isn't. It is a subtle change, but I know what it is. He has done it too many times for me to not know.

This weekend was not a good one. I got up, took D to dance class, within 30-45 min, H was out of the house. I know this because MIL told me she tried to get ahold of him to ask him to meet her, BIL, and our 2 boys for breakfast. Grandma had the kids the night before. She brought D home in time for dance. She tried to reach me to have us meet. When I saw she was not at the house, I assumed she was at the cafe, because she mentioned me bring D there, because there is an antique shop next to the cafe. She wanted to buy D a tea set she saw there. Wanted D to look at it. Since no one was home, I went to the cafe, and there was MIL, BIL and kids. No Hubby. Hubby not answering cell phone. After breakfast, I went to mall to get a couple of things. Still no hubby. Hubby finally calls me on my cell. Now, OW, just happnens to reach him during that 30-45 min from the time I left to the time MIL tried to reach him. YEAH, SURE (detect the sarcasm). She wanted him to do some work for a friend of hers who happens to have the same name as her brother, and happens to live in the same town as her brother.

Later that day, H is trying to be all nicey to me. He wanted to meet the guys up north for some ice fishing. Now, there was and Ice fishing tournament sponsored by H's union. When H first suggested that they wanted to go last Monday, I lined up a babysitter, so we both could get away for the weekend. H, said he was not going. I cancelled babysitter. Now, H wants to go up for the night. I told him to do what he wanted, but he was not going to get my permission. I did not approve. He said he would take me out next week. I don't need his pity date. or his Guilt date. Right now, I really dont' care if my M makes it or not. I don't know if I dont care anymore. I told him I did not approve and have never approved of these overnight trips away from home. It is not right when a couple is married that they do this. He then told me if I wanted to, I could, all I had to do was let him know. I reminded him that a few years ago, I wanted to. I needed a break, and he got all mad, so I never asked again. H, then asked me if I was trying to make him feel guilty, which I replied "No, but he must be feeling guilty if he brought it up." H then went out to the store to get me some pop. I saw him return, spent too much time in the car, probably on the phone with OW. He then comes in with some snack foods. I asked him what time he was leaving. He said he was not. We did not talk much the rest of the evening. Sunday, kids had Hockey, H then left to finish job from yesterday. Took him 7 hours. I don't believe it took 7 hours. I've heard him discuss how long it takes to do these things in the past.

I think it is time for me to accept that my M is over, that H does not want to live the life of a married committed family and that he wants the freedom of a single man. He has commented on how he does not like being a dad sometimes.

I have to get through the next few months so I can finish school, get myself in a position to support the kids on my own if need be. There is on reason why they should have to make any more adjustments than necessary.

Maybe I am overreacting, but I don't think so. The sooner I accept the inevitable, the better off I will be when it come time to take the steps necessary.

Sue,
I haven't heard you so down for quite a while.
How about we wait a few months and see what happens?

I also think you should go to plan B before you hang it up.

I know you will make this one, but other low's will come. Just steele yourself and make your goal and then lets look at things. I am still praying for you and your family. Sounds like you could use another good day.

How's everyting else?
Kids OK?
School?

SS

Man Sue, you're post made me want to cry. I feel so bad for you and the situation you are in. Why don't you want to confront him now and tell him to move out in the near future? At least you would have to live a lie anymore, it would be out in the open. I just don't see how you do it, I would have to say something, for my own sanity. Banish him to the couch and ignore him. Focus on your degree and show him you don't care. Who knows, it might bring about an unexpected change, in your favor. What have you got to lose??

Man, I wish I could boot your H in the butt!! lol

Things are a little bit better. I have not expectations at this point. No exectations means no let downs.

H is actually behaving as if he cares. At least I get washed dishes out of it.

I am back to being focused on school, and the kids. And behaving as if I care about my M. Time will tell.

Why don't I confront now, becuase

1- H might leave. H would deny it, no matter what proof I have, I need him in the home right now.

2 - If I did confront now, and H stayed, I would not be able to stand to look at him if he stayed but wanted to keep seeing OW. That would be the ultimate in disrespect to me, the kids, everything. At least this way, he has to sneak around to see her.

There are so many times I want to send a letter to her parents (she lives at home) and tell them that he is married. I know, what good will it accomplish. I want to call her work and tell who ever answers the phone, I want to hurt her the way that they have hurt me. I will not do these things because it would be counterproductive. I can think revenge, no one can stop me from thinking. Sometimes I get rather creative, and other times I'm downright mean.

Right now, I don't really care. I just want to graduate, pass boards, find a better job.

SS- How is your W doing? You said she had surgery right?

[ February 27, 2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

I would call and cancel their hotel reservations next time there are any. I know you said you called and checked on them before. Anything you can think of to sabotage their fun...

I like that idea. By the time there is an opportunity for a next time, he will be out of the house or he would have sent a NC letter.

I have had a long time to put a lot of thought into this, and there are a few things that are non negotiable. My way or the hiway. There are a few things I will negotiate on. Any thing involving her, is non negotiable. She is out, plain and simple, if not, then he is out.

By the time I confront, I will be more than ready to implement Plan B if need be. You see, for me, once the A is out in the open and if he tries to continue it, that is in my face disrespect, and I will not tolerate that, ever. Right now, I know he is disrespecting me, he does not know that I know, he does not see it as that. I don't know if his mom would let him move back home or not. She has major issues with infidelity.

We will see

I know spring is around the corner, Soccer sign ups are tomorrow. After little Princess has her dance class, we will stop at the Cro and sign her up and her brothers up. Last her the boys played their first year, and want to continue, this will be her first year. We will also sign her up for skating lessons. If I knew how, I would take her out on the ice. Dad keeps using the excuse that he cannot teach her because she has figure skates. All she needs to know how to do is skate, the stopping will come later. Beside, she will probably be playing hockey too, unless she decides figure skating is more to her liking. I think she will go more for the hockey, she is an active little thing. The boys also want to play ball. I will have to see if that conflicts with Soccer. If it does, they will have to decide between one or the other.

I know, my title has nothing to do with my kids activities, just wanted to put this in because I am so proud of my kids and their abilities.

I never got to participate in activities when I was younger, either my parents did not think it important, they did not know about it, we could not afford it, or there was too many kids in our family, and my mom was not going to tote us around. Besides, in my youth there was not too much for girls to do, softball which I stunk at, cheerleading, which I was not popular enough for, etc etc.

Girl scout cookies are here, yum yum

We missed the cookies this year. I thought my W was getting them, and I told them no. She thought I was getting them. Oh well, next year.

Sue, how do you feel that you are doing now, I mean, after Christmas you seemed to resolve to do better at being nice to him. How are you doing with that now?

I need to post to FBOW, but I don't think I can do it tonight. Tell her hi for me if you get over there.

SS

I will tell her you say Hi,

As far as my attitude towards H, I'm bordering between Hostility and being nice, depends upon what mood I am in at the time.

It does not help any that he is looking for anything to pick a fight over. Calling our oldest names really gets to me. Or constantly yelling at him. I really believe my H is disappointed in our oldest because he is more sensitive than our second oldest. Our second oldest is sensitive, he is better at hiding it.

H hates it when oldest cries and calls him a baby. The other day, H calls me at work, and says "talk to your son" (I hate that, calling him my son when he is upset with him, it is like he is disowning him when he does not meet H's expectations) The whole time I am trying to talk to son on the phone, H is screaming at him. I told son to go to his room and go to bed, so he could get away from him. The whole time son is crying. When these things happen, I have very little desire to make my M work. At times like these I really despise him and think very poorly of my H, such as he is the biggest idiot I've ever met.

Dear Sue, and SS,
thanks for checking on me. I don't feel like posting recently, conserving emotional energy, and trying to concentrate on practical issues.
I can tell you that having you thinking about me does help me tremendously.
Thank you.
FBOW

Weel, things are not as I thougth they were.

Found out today, that H went to Vegas again. He claimed he was going with some other out of work union brothers to sign the books. I found out that OW is also in Vegas. Seminar. Now, I don't believe that this it purely coincidental.

Talking to MIL. I had to talk to someone, I didn't know waht to do. She told me that she suspected that H was cheating on his first wife. I think my H has other issues that do not have to do with our R. I think he has troubles letting go. Almost as if, if he lets the OW go, and things don't work out with his M, then he has her to fall back on. It does not matter how much I meet his needs, as long as he has these issues going on, my M is doommed to fail.

I am so upset. I had my last day of clinicals today, it took everything I had to keep it together. The busier I was, the better I was. During the down times, I kept wanting to break down. Not impressive for a Nursing student to fall apart on the floor.

Now I have to concentrate on putting together my presentation and papers, preceptorship, and state boards. I know where I want to work. I am going to apply there. I hope I get hired.

{{{{{(((((((Sue)))))))}}}},
So sorry to read your last post.
You are so good in focusing where you need in order to get you there.
Please vent if this helps you decide on current course of action.
I know you do have a longer time frame plan.
Thinking of you
FBOW

I'm so sorry about this latest news Sue, I don't know how you manage to keep it together. It's great that you were able to talk to your MIL, you need to be able to talk to someone. I worry about you, handling this alone, it is not healthy.

How much closer are you to being able to blow him out of the water?

I graduate at the end of May, boards are sometime between June and July. I have to pass boards before I can do anything. If I don't pass boards, I don't work and I have to stay at my current job, which I cannot support the kids on that paycheck.

How do I stay focused, not easy. When I am distracted like at clinicals, and school, it is easy. Such as today, I got up, took the kids to school, I have no appetite, ate because I should, had to chock it down. Went to school, lecture distracted me, now that class is done, all I wanted to do was call him on his cell phone and scream at him that I KNOW, I KNOW EVERYTHING YOU LYING CHEATING SCUM, POOR EXCUSE OF A HUMAN BEING. SELFISH, SELF-CENTERED IMMATURE MANIPULATIVE BABY WHO HAS NO REGARD FOR OTHER FEELINGS AND WANT OR DESIRES EXCEPT YOUR OWN. YOU DONT' CARE WHO YOU HURT TO GET WHAT YOU WANT THAT INCLUDE YOUR OWN CHILDREN. No, I dont' feel better because I could not scream this at him.

By March 20th I have to decide if I want to sign up for a celebration dinner we are having for the graduating class. Some of us ordered Nursing pins. At the dinner, we can have the person who has been helpful to us in acheiving our goal. My friends and classmates know that I have been going through. They have been a big help in keeping me distracted and focused during clinicals and class. I don't know if I want my H at this dinner, this is my celebration, my kids celebration, (I can invite my children). How do I do this, and not invite my H, but to not invite would be a LB. I dont' want my classmates who know to be rude to him. That would only cause tension at the table. I dont' know what to do. I suppose I could ask them to act like they don't know and treat him as they would if we had a good marriage.

I have some time to think this over

How I wish I could confront him so I can put an end to it. Either the A or our M. Either way I can get on with my life.

I have decided that when I confront, he will have decisions to make, depending upon his decisions, will determine my next action.

I want a cigerette. I have none, I bum them from others when I feel like this. I want to buy a pack and start smoking, but at the same time, I know know physically exactly how smoking effects the body. Sometimes nursing school is not always a good thing

I have to leave for work. I will check back on break

[ March 06, 2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Sue,

I have started this a number of different ways but I can't get it going right. I will just dispense with the pleasantries and get to the heart of it.

If you aren't going to confront before school is out, then continue plan A. Only thing is that with continued disrespect comes massive burnout. Can you make this work?

If you are going to make it work, you need to put it out of your mind, and go on.

I ( probably one of many) wish you could get this over with now. If you are journaling what is going on you could just write it up and leave a copy on the porch with his stuff in June. Actually that is not the kind of help you need, is it.

Next, please don't take up the smokes again. You worked to hard getting where you are now. ( At least I hope you have.)

And last, remember your family. Be steady and strong. I know you have done that too long already but what choice do you have. I really believe you can do it. He has shown signs that he cares about you. I know that he has made some big mistakes, but he has shown signs. Things are not all bad, don't let what is bad make you crazy.

Sue,
I have a lot of faith in you. Please show me I'm right.

SS

I know you have your reasons for doing this the way you are. I have to say I couldn't do it. I would not be able to keep from screaming what you just posted. I admire your strength.

Hi SS & FMWB,

I know I have to stay focused. That is what is helping me to stay in Plan A. Some days I falter.

He made the mistake of bring up that he needed to get away from the kids. I reminded him that since I became a mother 9 years ago, I had two vacations, 1- vegas to get married, 2- Branson last summer. While he has gone to vegas 6-8 times, sking trips to California, Vermont, Montana, Colorado, Fishing trips to Missouri, Colorado, not to mention the anual softball tournament up north, the annual golf tournament in Wi, annual softball tournament in Wi.

I know I don't have much time left until I finish school, staying in Plan A will make the time bearable. Personally I like the idea of giving him my journal, printout of my thread along with a bag of his clothes and telling him "bye bye". I can make it through the rest of the year. Pretending helps alot. The problem with pretending is, that even though you know you are pretending, part of it is real, and with each discovery, come new hurt and pain. By the time I can confront, I may not want to make my M work. I might go from Plan A to Plan Divorce. We will see. I don't have a crystal ball in front of me to know what will happen in June/July.

I will be fine and I will make it through this. I am a strong woman. Now to decide about the dinner.

I am in a situation similar to yours. I will be graduating college in the spring and I strongly suspect my husband. no proof though. For instance tonight I called because he was one hour late at getting home, just to see if he wanted supper to wait. well he was on his way and had to stop at the office, that is where she works too. so I drove by her house and sure enough she was just getting home too. Some days this is madding, I have my eyes open though.
thanks for the inspiration.

Hi Lorigirl,

If you suspect, you have your reasons, and you are probably right. Especially if he has not treated you this way before.

I talked to my sister tonight, and she told me had she known his real plans, she never would have agreed to help and watch the kids. She said he told her he was going for work. I told her, from now on, check with me as to what is the situation.

What are you going to school for?

I know if it wasn't because of school I would not have made it this far. I would have told him off by now. Last April I was all set to start divorce proceedings. It is hard, but if you keep your sight on your goal, it is easier to manage. Except for my bad days, I have them, I vent, cry whatever, then within a couple of days I have it undercontrol again, until the next time.

What did he say when you reminded him of all of his getaways?

Not much, just that if I wanted to go on a vacation I could. I told him that we had discussed the issues of seperate vacations when we first started dating, and I thought we had both agreed that married couples do not take seperate vacations. I also told him that once, all I wanted was to get away for the weekend, there was too much going on and I needed a break, and he go all mad and accused me of trying to abandon my kids. He did not say much after that.

Right now, I am in the process of writing a combination journal/letter to him. I did some major thinking last night. Not sure if that was a good thing to do in my state of mind or not.

Rigth now, I'm thinking that he never really wanted to marry me. I remember the weekend when we left to get married, he was good about going, until we got on the plane, then he said he was not sure, said, don't worry, I will probably marry you. (I should have ran to the next plane going back home once this one landed.) I didnt talk to him the rest of the way. Things got better, I figured cold feet which he recovered from. We got married, had a great weekend. The trip home, he practically avoided me and did not care if we had seats on the plane together or not.

Gotta go. Will finish in a little bit

As I thought back through out our history together, there were other instances such as this. Besides, I am tired of being compared to his xW, xGF. If I am so horrible to be with, why did he marry me in the first place. I've always voiced my opinion and never held back, alsways told him when I did not like how he treated me. He still married me, and now he is not happy with me. Maybe he married me because of the kids, he saw I was barely making it before, or did he marry me because of the child support. He always complained of not having any money.

Right now, I need some time to get myself back together. At this point, I am so tired of it all, I don't care if my M survives or not. I just want to finish school, bet a better job, take care of my kids, and get on with my life. With or without him. I just want to go foward. I might be getting frustrated because the end of the road is so close and yet so far.

I hear ya, you want to be able to act on your plan now. Just stay strong and steady.

Yes, Sue - be careful that you don't leave that journal out where H can read it - you may subconsciously be wanting to let him have it now because emotionally, you are entirely fed up; but it would blow up everything in your face and be catastrophic to your completing school and getting the job you want. I think you want to be able to move on your own terms, not the catastrophic plan.

Thanks Kayla,

I keep it well hidden in with my books. He never goes in there. He knows I would get mad if he messed up my school stuff. I've worked too hard for too long to get to this point.

I have until March 20th to decided if I want to attend the graduating class celebration dinner. They are doing a "pinning" ceremony. At first I thougth it would be fun to go, but I don't really want him there. Especially feeling the way I do. I decided today I had to go back to pretending. I can do it. I've been doing it for a year now, I can do it for a few more months.

My MIL is sorry this has happened, she says for me to make the decision that is in my best interest. She won't tell him I know. She knows it is important for me to finish school. Her and I have our differences, (covered in a previous post) but when it comes to the kids, she agrees that things have to be done in their best interest. She over indulges them to the point where it causes me alot of problems with the kids. She would not do anything that would intentionally hurt them. Besides, I think she would like to see us work it out. She knows what he did the last time I confronted him. She is very religous. I think she never remarried after she divorced because of her religous beliefs. She divorced my H's dad because he is an alcoholic, who liked to cheat on her and used her as his punching bag. FIL is not allowed around kids alone. For about 8 years, H and FIL did not talk. H just recently contacted FIL. I don't know if that is good or bad. H always jumped when FIL said to. H, wouldn't even ask how high, just did it.

So, as of tonight/tomorrow I am back to pretending I have this great and wonderful marriage to a great and wonderful man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hi Sue,

Sounds like your back on the roller coaster ride. Sorry things are so frustrating for you especially while your in school. I know you put everything you have to not breakdown because a little slip like that can mess everything up. I'm so glad that making it through school is a major thing for you to be able to provide your children with a comfortable life. I know that that's what gets me up to go to school everyday.

As far as you pretending to have a wonderful marriage to a wonderful man....Hey if that's what it takes to get you through school then what ever floats your boat. It's a good coping strategy as long as it's just temporary. That's the coping strategy I'm using too just not the same situation and it get's me through the day. I even believe it sometimes and actually feel cheerful at times.

You are a stong woman and I admire you. Good luck in school. I'll be checking up on you when I get a chance to. Keep your head up!!!and when you graduate you'll know exactly what to do even if your H doesn't.

Smile...Melinda

You are a strong women but everyone has their breaking point. Try to stay away from those bad thoughts that threaten to overwhelm you sometimes.

I pretend but I don't go way out in left field when I do it. I try to stick with stuff that may be true. I pretend I can handle it when I don't think I can. I pretend tomorrow will be better -and often it is.

Remember the more you know about what is going on, the easier it will be to know what to do about it later. However it also makes it harder to wait.

Still praying for you. Still believe you can make it till school is out. Still think you are smart and will pass when you need to pass. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
SS

Thank you everyone.

You know what they say "knowledge is power". Without knowledge, you cannot make the decisions that are in your own best interest. Each discovery brings either hurt or anger. Each time, I recover quicker.

H is being good to me. Even asked if we should go look at dryers. I said after you are back to work. I dont' want to spend the savings on a dryer when we might need it for food or medical or gas. Spring is almost here, and dryer or no dryer, I hang outside in the spring. I grew up that way and I love crawling into bed with sheets fresh off the line. There is a fresh scent with the sheets.

H has been better since he got home. I was surprised that he was home Saturday night. I'm home sick, and H is cooking dinner. I don't know if I will eat or not. Tummy is a little icky. Last night he told me (or was it this morning) that he needed a babsitter. H wanted to meet his dad. He called his dad and told him that he could not meet him because I was sick. He has never done that before. So either he did not really want to meet his dad and used my illness as an excuse, or he really felt he should stay home. Either way, it is helpful.

He actually told me he missed me. That is not normal for him.

Hang up phone call that came when I should have been at work. I said "hello" a couple of times, caller ID showed "unkown". Heard talking in the background, and it did not sound like telemarketing background noice. You know, you can usually tell telemarketers. "Interesting"

H wants to take me to some dinner in April. I will go, it is at the VFW, some dinner honoring nurses.

No matter what they are able to pull off, you are still his wife. You could reak havoc on their plans if you really wanted to. I know, it requires extra effort, probably not a good idea.

I'm happy to hear he took care of you when you were sick. I'm sure he really cares about you, he's just messed up in the head.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />No matter what they are able to pull off, you are still his wife. You could reak havoc on their plans if you really wanted to. I know, it requires extra effort, probably not a good idea <hr /></blockquote>Done that a few times already. I get some pleasure out of that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I cannot help myself.

I decided that he will not be doing much overnights away from the family in the future.

Like I said, you are the wife. Now tighten those apron strings and start establishing some boundaries. For one, married couples should not be taking so many trips apart. That is insane!

PS - I bet it does feel good... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I intend to tighten those strings.

Once he made the comment that his friends say I have him on a short leash. I'm sure that was said so I would losen up. I told him guys on short leashes don't do anything with their single friends and stay home every night. If he ever accused me of it again, he would see how short that leash can get. I also told him that when a man or woman tells their spouse that they are not welcome to specific events, and it is because it is a "boys night out" when I know perfectly well other wives or gf are there, that means you are hiding something from me. I don't like it.

Besides, he should be telling them that he respects me and will not treat me that way.

I work with a woman, her and her bf have been living together for over 10 years. He has more respect for her in the way he treats her, and the way he talks about her to his friends. They both have weekends away with their activities, but both know they can go along with each other if they want to. He has never had an exclusive "boys only" trip. Even though they have not legally tied the knot, he refers to her as his wife. She says, it is working, why change it.

I found out on our phone that I can block calls. I might have to set it up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just thinking about it gives me pleasure.

Now you're thinkin' girl! Maybe it will help relieve some stress to mess with them. You have to wait to say anything, so why not have a little fun a their expense.

The way you describe that couple is just like my H and I. We wouldn't dream of doing separate trips. He used to go fishing overnight with one of his buddies every so often at the coast, but even that has stopped with his new job. The thing is, I know he would love to take me fishing too, and he was openly verbal about it. I just don't always have the time and drive that his friend does for fishing.

I read a thread somewhere saying you can get specific calls forwarded by the phone company. Wouldn't it be funny if everytime she called your house, she got you at work! Hee Hee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How very interesting, forward her calls to me at work. I'd like to see the look on her face when she realized what happened. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You do what you have to do to survive and de-stress

Hi Sue, they don't have an icon with a waving hand. It was nice to meet you and to have lunch together. Did the waiter take the appetizers and the drinks off the tab? I am sitting here at work buzzed.

I don't know. The others took the bill and went to take care of it. (I think).

It was nice meeting you too. I love your accent. It was already suggested to try to plan an April lunch. I think it is a great idea.

You know, sometimes I think about my M, my H, the past.

H can be so good, and he can be so bad. I know he wants to be a good father. He makes many mistakes, and some of them are borderline verbal and emotional abuse. I know he was raised with that. He does not do have the stuff I heard about that went on in his youth. When I don't like something he has done, he know it. Before he used to get defensive, now he asks, if he was wrong. Most of the time, he is not wrong to discipline the kids, he is wrong in his methods or what he says. Such as, telling our oldest he is stupid.

By no means am I perfect, I've made my share of mistakes. When I am wrong, I apologize to my kids, tell them how I was wrong and I will try to do better. Usually I over react to things that I normally would not when I am in the middle of a stressful situation regarding my H's A. I end up telling them that they did not do anything wrong, they just caught me in a bad moment. I try to correct the situation. It happens less and less now.

I'm glad H is at least asking if I think he is wrong or what he should have done different. Once I told him that if what he does is somethign you don't want the kids repeating, then it is wrong and he needs to find another method

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sue with hope:
I don't know. The others took the bill and went to take care of it. (I think).

It was nice meeting you too. I love your accent. It was already suggested to try to plan an April lunch. I think it is a great idea.<hr /></blockquote>Thank you for the compliment, I would love to get together again for lunch. Actually I was also thinking on the way to work that we should do a big potlock dinner at my house sometime soon. That way we'll have more time and maybe have more people and be able to talk more.

P.S. You can call me anytime if you want.

Hi,

Things are not good for me right now. As much as it causes me intense pain, I find a need to check his cell phone to see if he calls her, or she calls him. They have been talking every day for the last couple of days. On one hand, eventually it will help me to prepare to move to Plan B. On the other, I need to know if they are talking.

I have been thinking alot about Plan B. I know it is what I have to do after I pass boards. If I don't, this A will continue for lord knows how long. Thinking about Plan B, causes me great pain. I don't want to go that route. I want it to end before it gets to that point. I don't honestly believe it will <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Nothing changes, everything stays the same. When it gets to that point, I will ask him mom if he needs a place if he can live with her. I'm sure OW lives with her parents, so I don't think he will go there. They probably will not let him. Why does a single 28/29 year old woman live with her parents? Then again, who knows. I have to go to bed. Have to work tomorrow, babygirl has dance in the morning. Boys have party in the afternoon, and I am supposed to go out with H. I don't want to.

You know, he only takes me out to places where he is expected to be seen with me. Very seldom do we go out together on a date. I'm sure he takes her to things that involve his friends. We never do anything with his friends. He says he does not want me around them. It is almost like I am the OW when it comes to his friends, and his wife when it comes to his family and union social events. Otherwise, he does not want me around. What am I to him? Did he marry me because it was what he should have done because of the kids? And he really wants to be with her. I'm sure she is alot more fun than I am, after all, she does not have the contraints of childrens schedules to contend with.

{{{{{{Sue}}}}}}
FBOW

Thanks

I know it sounds strange to keep checking cell phone logs, records, etc, especially when those things cause pain. Eventually, each time it will hurt less and less.

Hi Sue,

I have noticed that things are seldom as good as we want them to be, but also, they are seldom as bad as we imagine they are.

You have some pretty damming proof, but lets talk a little bit about it. Remember that an A is an addiction. If someone gets hooked on drugs, alcohol, or even tobacco we tend to empathize with them and want to help. Even though we know it was something they started of their own free will. If they have an A we tend to say they are the scum of the earth. ( this is just in general terms, I am not calling anyone anything.)

No, it's not right, and yes, you have a right to be hurt and angry, but here's my point - you are delaying plan B on purpose because things may end if you go to that. It may very well be that your H will respond the way you want him to and dump OW if and when you go to plan B. It may be that he really does love you but he has this addiction. It may be that he will give it all up for you when he realizes what he could loose.

Well, we just don't know. Because you don't dare work on it now, you can't find out right now and you get more hurt and more angry as you go on. I don't know of any way to put your feelings on hold while you finish school, but I wanted you to think about it again.

So, yes he is a real cake eater, yes he has problems, and yes he is hurting you, but what if he does the right thing when you confront?

I don't know what will happen, and I don't want to give false hopes. I am not saying there is anything good about what he is doing. It would be far better for your children if you never had a smoke the rest of your live, but do you sometimes cheat a little there?

I haven't spent as much time on your thread lately, you have gotten lots of replies and comments and so I don't worry about you as much, but I wanted to get you thinking in another direction, the one you have been going in for the last few days won't help you finish school.

I hope when you finally do confront him he is able to walk away without help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

HI SS

Thank you. I have been forcing myself to stay focused on school. I only have 2.5 months to go. I have to stay focused. I know, the way I have been the last couple of days is not helping me.

I don't know if confronting will stop things or not. We will see when the time comes. I won't get my hopes up. No point in it.

As far as addictions go, I learned the hard way to run not walk to the nearest exit from people with addictions. I don't need them dragging me into their little h*** hole. (or my kids for that matter). If H was an alcoholic or drug addict, I would have been long gone. I was involved with one of them once. Made my world livng you know what. So, why do I stay with this addiction? I know, I have to get through the next 2 months. I can do it. I know I can.

[ March 15, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

(((((((Sue))))))) You are a saint woman. I'm amazed at your restraint. Just remember he is the one with issues, not you. One day you'll be able to say I knew all along and face him with all guns blazing.

PS - Have you looked into doing any jacking with the phones? (Forwarding or Blocking)

Do you ever try asking your husband nonchalantly about her number on his bill? You know, play dumb at first?

My H does not know I know about the calls on his cell phone. He hides the bill from from, or at least itemized part. I have yet to find what he does with them.

H tried telling me that he has an account in anohter bank, then he says he doesn't. I know she works at a Credit Union. I wish I could find out if they have a joint account.

Hi Sue, and everyone else.

quote by findingmy wayback:
(((((((Sue))))))) You are a saint woman. I'm amazed at your restraint. Just remember he is the one with issues, not you. One day you'll be able to say I knew all along and face him with all guns blazing.

Yes, she has shown restraint. She hasn't killed him or kicked him out yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sue, since you know so much, you may want to begin working on him. Hinting, teasing and making him wonder. At least you can have fun with it for a month or so so you don't go crazy. I know you can come up with something, you are the smart one here.

SS

You mean like the two, one right after the other wrong number phone calls, during the middle of the night. I thougth I recognized one of the numbers. The other number did not come up on caller ID. I thought it was very odd that there was one right after the other, and different female voices. The second one was a little too quick in the "sorry wrong number".

H woke up for those, wanted to know why I was on the phone. I told him, two wrong number calls. It bugged him, he commented on it a couple of days later.

Yes,
Mind games. I believe after getting to know you a littel bit that you could be a lot better player at it than he is. Think on it a little bit, perhaps it could give you an outlet for your frustration.

Meanwhile, you are a great person, a smart person and a good help to others. You will do fine no matter what happens, that alone should be a bright spot in your life. You know it's the truth.

I will be gone for a few days, see ya around.

SS

SS is right, you could reak some havoc on them. Most WS's don't want to be caught. She might be trying to get him busted. Keep bringing up these strange phone calls and other inconsistancies very non-chalantly. It will eat away at him, trust me.

Last night when I got home from work, I was tired. Everything is taking its toll on me. I am trying very hard to keep focused. By the end of the day I am tired, but cannot sleep.

I went to bed, H went to bed, then it hit me. I started crying. I tried not to. You know how it is, the harder you try not to cry, the harder it is to cry. So, I left the room. I didn't want him to know I was crying. I have not had a really good cry in a long time. Most of the time, I refocus myself and I stop crying. I suppose after awhile, it does not work.

Anyway, H wanted to know what was wrong. I told him what was causing me to cry last night. It wasn't the A, it was because I believed he did not love me anymore. Now in the morning, I probably should have said I am just tired and frustrated. He would have accepted that. He does not like to dig deeper. Even if he believed it was not the truth, he would not have asked anything else. He didn't say anything. Most guys would have said "I love you honey, I just don't feel comfortable saying it all the time" or "doesn't my actions say I love you" Anything like that. No, he says nothing. Well, to me, that confirms that he does not love me. So, why am I doing Plan A anyway? Why am considering Plan B. Why don't I just go straight to Divorce when I finish shcool and get it over with? Why drag this out any longer?

I gotta go. I'm am in a very poor mood right now. Very negative. I have being negative.

((((((Sue)))))))

I'm so sorry to hear this, your H was not very sympathetic. I worry about your health, you are holding so much in. I don't have the answers, I know that, but I want to help you somehow!!

A WS can make you feel like you are losing your mind. They do things that are insensitive, irrational, and selfish.

Thanks FMWB,

I'll be okay. What I really need to do is have some time alone where I can just let it all come crashing in so I can have a really good cry instead of little bit at at time. I regain some control, and again crash, regain control, crash. I need to just crash and let it out.

I'm am so tired right now from last night. H, the kids and I went to see his dad at the American Legion post where his dad is a member. H is acting like we are this happy couple, talking with the post commander about us going to Vegas as a group in August.

H paid for tickets for a fundraiser dinner they are having. They have a scholarship program for Nursing Students, and this dinner helps to pay for the scholarships.

H volunteered us to serve breakfast this Sunday for a food shelf fundraiser.

Maybe H does love me. I don't know. It seems like he has this double life going on. He has this life where a wife and family is what he wants in the picture and then there is this life with his friends, where I'm guessing she is in the picture. His friends knew he was cheating on me the first time. One of his friends actually got mad when he found out that we got married. (what a peach,(insert extreme sarcasm))

Dear Sue,

I just got my courage together to come back to MB. I have been too depressed for many months to even read here...

The first thing I did was to check on you. I am so sorry to hear that in the past months not much has changed for the better for you...

To check call logs, EZ pass bills and emails-I did that too, but then I realized how low can a relationship sink.

Your husband treats you with disrespect. He is hiding things from you. This whole secretive lifestyle...Plan B sounds like a great option for you. Maybe that would bring him to his senses, too- maybe not. Whatever will happen, I think you need a change. You sound very sad and burnt out in some of your posts.

Hang in there, finish school, come to NYC (they are looking for people like you here in my place like CRAZY. Benefits, scholarship for the kids).

I just dusted off the car after all the snow we had this winter. Summertime will come and -guess what- they are still working on the construction here (...!!!).

Big hug from an "old" friend

Hi Liza,

I am getting burnt out. I know it. I keep trying to push it aside because it is what I need to do to stay focused. I know once I graduate, lets hope I make it through the ceremony, I will crash. It will be what I need. I have been acknowledging my feelings in bits and pieces, and shoving them aside. They keep trying to nudge themselves to the surface. I don't have time for that. I have to do 8 hours of community service (no I did not do anything wrong, part of school.). I'm doing it at a pro-life clinic near my house. I have 80 hours of preceptorship, a presentation to write and present, and about 6 more case studys and journals on my preceptorship.

Daughter has dance weekly and a recital coming up. Boys have soccer (plus side, my sister will not help him with babysitting) so he has a conflict between ball and soccer. He better make the right choice. Lately I have been sleeping about 5 hours a night. (I know, not good). I just signed up for a Kaplan course. I want to pass boards so I'm hoping it will help. The instructors recommend it.

I will have to keep NYC in mind. Who knows what will happen. H is talking about selling our house, first he wants to move to CA, now he wants to move 40 min north of where we live now. last fall there was a house for sale that was on 2 acres and it was valued at less than hour house, this house was in better condition. It would have been a great buy. The area is developing, so eventually, it would have built up in equity quickly. The time was wrong. Beside, right now, my feeling on selling our home with our M in its current state, well. Lets just say, bad idea. Here is some potential situations that could happen with our M in its current state. "Honey, it is late, and I dont' want to make the drive, so I'm going to stay in town tonight. I'll stay at my mom's." (yeah right,he will be at his moms). Here is another one - I've been drinking too much, and I should not risk it. (how about, lets not drink and drive, so avoid the drink if you know you are driving.)

I will get better. Today, I am really in a decent mood. Somewhat cynical, but decent. At least my eyes don't need cold packs like they have been.

Started new thread. This one is becoming a chapter book.

New book title

I no longer suspect I am 99.999999% sure