HI Sue and SS,
just got home, opened the mailbox and found among incoming mail two I believe Christmas Cards letters from my H to OW and OW family. He apparently forgot to put stamps on them so they came back.

My H is not home.

I just hurt so much even though I really should not be either surprised or anything -this is such a small drop in all the events of last year.

I am just sad, a bit angry too. See, he came back last time, after I clerly stated to not come back if this not what you want to do. So I was hopin for long and rough but at least possible recovery.

I have not approach him since he came back about two weeks ago but he remains cold and distant to me.

Now I don't now what I should do. Leve those cards on his desk, hand them to him, ask for a talk or what.

Since I am kept uninformed what is/was going on I am tempted to read them, but I know from experience it will backfire - I will feel awful afterwards for snooping and most probably the content will hurt me even more.

So I will not read them.

I do feel I will tell H how things like that hurt me and ask him to tell me - when he is ready, but soon - within a week or two let's say - what his intentions and plans for future are. I can't live off crumbs much longer.

I know that those might be just kind sharing of Christmas spirit as the whole A as I understand started as extending a helpul hand to OW. I hate to be selfish but I do not care if this is a case at this point. He did not promise to break contact with OW and as of last talk in September he still loves her not me and wants to be with her not our family.

I don't think he even mailed cards to his own family, parents and uncles etc. Usually I write them, this year I was procrastinating because usually we both signed them and I just did not know how to word the greatings. Anyway I sent an early card to his parents signing for myself and him and kids.

Does he consider OW and her family his family now?

Is it fog or am I in fog by staying in plan A?
Am I wrong for keeping this all from kids and families so he has unburdened choice?

Sorry Sue for encroaching on your thread again.
I don't know what I am asking for, I know I am to make decisions, not you guys, thanks in advance for any comments.
Venting helps though.
FBOW

[QUOTE] I'm going to take golf lessons. He golfs, I don't. He sort of suggested it. He commented then we could golf together. I guess he is trying to spend time with me...

That is huge- Golf is where they go to escape...if he is inviting you to learn, it means he wants to work on your relationship. Does OW golf? She probably doesn't, and I'll bet that if you golf he won't be able to use golf as an excuse to go see her anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I never knew that about golf. Wow, puts a whole new perspective on things.

Does not explain other stuff.

Forebetter,
Do not apologize. I'm sorry you are going through this. Why did he come back if he wants to be with her?

How to handle it? Good question. I am the confrontational type, however, I am not confronting my H.

What do you think he would do if you set them on his desk with them on top, laid side by side. He would know you saw them. What do you think he would do if you asked him about them. Tell him you want to know what they say?

This must be horrible. It is like everytime we find something, it brings it to the forefront with the same old feelings of hurt.

Last night we went to the Christmas party. Everything I picked out was horrible to wear. I gained so much weight, I cannot wear my nice clothes that used to fit me. So, I put on a pair of dress jeans. I had to jump around to get them on. I know, it must of looked pretty funny, but I was not in a laughing mood. Especially since, Las Vegas kept running through my mind. So, he is laughing at me trying to get into my jeans. So, that was it, I broke down and started crying. I didn't mean to cry. H thougth I was upset because of the weight I gained (okay, that is part of it.) I started rambling on about how I know he is not happy with the way I look and finds me repulsive. He had the decency to tell me that I am not repulsive. He took me to Kmart - closet store to find me something to wear that fits.

After that I had fun. Except, one conversation keeps going through my mind. I wonder if he was telling his friend J, if he wants a D or something. J, was drinking, he didn't seem drunk, but he seemed tipsey. He said to me "its good to see you two together again?????. Then he quickly added, some thing with regards to H having to find a sitter for the kids and stuff. We hardly spend time with J and his wife. Usually once a year they see me, and it is at this function. So, is it my overly suspicious mind at work, or has H been saying that he wants a D?

Party was fun. Usually, we eat and leave. H surprised me that he wanted to stay a little while.

H suggested that he and I stop somewhere else afterwards. Until he saw the time. Then we went home.

I hope she is out of the picture, but I don't think so.

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Hi Sue,
I am glad you enjoyed the party despite the pre-party dress dillemmas.
I'd love to shed more weight as well, and since this goal is totally depending on me alone, this is where my efforts go.

I waited for H to come back from his casual Friday/unofficial party event. I handed him his cards and asked him to tell me what his plans re me and our family were in light of this. I told him he does not need to respond right away ( as it was late, he probably had a drink or two), but within a week or so, could write me a letter if he'd rather not talk to me. I told him that situations like this hurt me a lot and that I realize he told me in September he's back, but does not want to nor he loves me and he'll manage somehow; it's me though who have difficulty dealing with current situation. And I reminded him that he is free to leave if this is what he wants. He asked me if I want him out; I said no, I still hope for reconciliation and for better marriage, I just don't want a lousy or fake M and I need to know his idea about our future. He did not answer and went to sleep on the sofa as usual.
I also think today he mailed those cards again - at least they dissappeared from his desk. I did not ask what he wrote - I don't care about that.

I despise being provoked and set up to act and later got blamed for that. It is hard to hang on AND work on myself at the same time.
Well you know that.
Have a peacefull weekend.
FBOW

Hi Forebetter,

How long have you been in Plan A? Do you try to do things together, fun stuff? It has been recently that my H and I have started doing fun stuff together. Some of it is because I have been letting him know that I don't like sitting home everynight on the weekends and he disappears. I told him, I know we don't see much of each other during the week, so I expected that we would spend the weekends together. I told him I want to go to dinner, just him and I, I want us to go to movies without the kids. He has gotten better. We have a long ways to go, but things are better.

How long can you stay in a M like this? OW, by family did you mean kids? or is she Married too?

Why did he come back? I do recall, it takes about 6 months to get over it. Has he agreed to No Contact and he is breaking it? or has there been no agreement?

I know I am dreading the day I will have to confront.

Hi Sue,

I've been plan Aing officially since D-day in May, though he was away for two months.
I kept trying to keep family events intact - we went bowling once, out of town for Father's Day, for a while we were going out twice a month with kids for dinner ( never alone - except for our post D-day anniversary dinner). After his long trip those outings became rarer though. He also refused our morning coffee outings. I enjoy any outing I can join - recently he usually was only taking kids, but I keep hinting about the movies- I went alomg last week but I sort of invited myself. I try "safe" places like movies so he is not threatened with imminent conversation. Tonight we just got back from a dinner. Those dinner are pleasant, except he rarely exchanges any word with me, mostly kids chatter.

OW is young and never married, by family I meant her parents.

I truly don't know how long I can stand current situation. In May my initial reaction was to just run away from the pain. Immediately though I thought about the kids and how really immature and selfish this solution would really be. Besides the A was still young - or so I thought - and I hoped it flared and will extinguish quickly.

Just as you ( and because I come from divorced parents) I care a lot about burden of D on my kids. They love my H and he is involved with them ( fun activities, chores and disciplining is my area). Their relationship motivates me to work on myself hoping H cares about them too. Well, but bottom line I still don't think I can live knowing he does not love me and is with us just because of kids. What would it buy me - 5 years? Of life like this year?

If we would split amicably, I believe my current job would support myself and kids in current home but no reserves for college or saving, or extravagancies (like trips every three years to my home country) either. Worse yet I am really worried about the blame game that can start among us because the D.

My H is not a ONS guy. I am convinced he does feel what he told me about OW. He does believe it will last forever - I am hoping may be not. It is a fantasy in a way that they are thousand of miles apart and moving there would be a huge difference for him - and would be rather hard for him to bring OW over here.
But we in our M experienced 3 periods of many months long separation due to his job and we managed to stay together thru those ( it was 8-10 years ago). So I know at least he can handle long distance relationship - OW - I don't know.
I don't want to guess or assume what OW is in for.
I have my theory but it doesn't matter. I have no idea what they told her parents as obviously my H got to know them. She met me once so she knows for sure H is married w/kids, but again - she might believe it was unhappy M and already falling apart. Which is not true from my standpoint. There were areas that could be improved, I know I adjusted my EN a bit so he probably did the same thing. Bad part we never really communicated our feelings, just practical and "important" issues in order to survive and succeed in new country. We had flat periods in M, some longer than others, I don't think my H had any A's though, except short but painful EA(?) 15yrs ago.
I had a brief "too close friendship" due to feeling lonely and unappreciated- now I know it was an EA ( too many issues shared) 10yrs ago, I ended immediately when I noticed that it was causing my H pain and could end dangerously, and also that that guy might not be as nice and friendly as I initially thought ( I am so glad I stopped short of major physical contact otherwise guilt would kill me).
Then the pre-A five years were really good in my opinion - at least I felt more loved and "in love" and enjoying more together then ever before.
But I was also working full time and less financial worries meant also me more tired and less caring of household stuff and probably nagging too much. And yes I am getting older and though I did not gain much weight since getting M I was never thin. It is a constant concern of mine and I have to watch myself otherwise I can easily balloon +15# and then struggle to loose them.

I did not asked H for NC nor he made any promises. I only kept telling him he needs to decide but my choice is to stay together and rebuild our M. And on few specific occasions I told him which of his actions hurt me a lot.

It is another too long post.
Till later,
FBOW

Part of me says it would be hypocritical to suggest things I have not tried, however, here goes nothing.

Some of the things MB suggests is the NC letter. Would he do it? It sounds like she lives far away, possibly another country? May I ask what country are you from? (this is just plain and simple nosieness).

So, for him to be with her, means moving far away? That would mean less contact with the kids. When my H and I split 7 years ago, initially he loved the freedom, after a couple of months, seeing the kids on my terms, well, it bothered him. So, that is why I sometimes wonder why he came back. Was it because he did not want to be a part time daddy. These are things I don't know.

I know OW sent him a picture of a baby via e-mail. It was one that was sent to her from someone else. So, that tells me it is not her's. But why would she send my H pictures of a baby. Does she want one? Is she trying to trap my H. Would he leave me over this? I don't know? I know it would destroy the progress he has made with our oldest. Their R is poor at this time. My oldest thinks his dad hates him, and he does not want to be around him much. Over the last month, H has been trying to improve things between them. They have made some progress.

H should be home by now. He left around 6p. He said he would be gone about 2 hours. This what he used to do when he was/is seeing OW. I have to focus. I have a final on monday. I need to stop thinking about this and pass my test.

I don't know which is worse, the crying, or the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, and I want to cry and cannot. Right now, I want to scream at him. I want to ask him, why, how could he, is he that selfish and self centered and cares so little for me that he could rip me apart like this.

Please, I want the A to end.

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

I PASSED PATHOPHYSIOLOGY!!!!!!!!

Now I have to pass Nursing Theory. I'm so worried I put too much effort into Patho that I might fail theory. Patho I could have retaken. I would have had to go infront of the board and explain how I will do it different to pass, but I could retake it. Theory, if I fail, I'm out of the program. So, I need some prayers.

Back to studying. My final is on Wed. I'm not sure which is worse, failing Nursing Theory or finding out about my H's A

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Way to go Sue ! ! !

I believe you will do well in theory. I have read your posts as I have come across them, and you are a smart girl. I know you're not perfect (who is?) but you have a lot going for you.

I'll pray for your success, and I suspect many others will too.

Ace that test and then get some rest for a couple of weeks, you deserve it.

SS

Thanks SS.

On the plus side, I have passed Theory when I have been under the gun for stuying. It makes me wonder, if I put more into, what kind of grade I could get. Well, back to the books. Test is at 10am tomorrow, and will probably have the results by late afternoon or early evening

Which is worse, waiting to find out results from Nursing theory exam or the A.?

The results were supposed to be posted at 2:30, it is now 3:20 and still no results.

I need to know if I passed. If I didn't then I don't get to progress to the next semester.

I PASSED!!!!!!

What a relief. Now I can relax until January. Next semester I will only have to take one class, clinicals and preciptorship.

One more semester and I graduate.

Lucky you, you just earned the right to take more tests !!! Oh, wait, we are supposed to be celebrating, not making you sad.

I suspect you are happy about it, told you you were smart !!!

Bet that makes for a happier Christmas for you. Congradulations again!
SS

PS, are those 20 things all true?

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS,
Thanks. I got a C in the class. Could have done better if I applied myself more and if I didn't fail the first test (oops). But, I went from a 71% to and 83%, so not bad. I don't look forward to more tests. Next semester is the last semester and then comes the BIG test, state boards.

Yes, those 20 things are true. Why, do some seem like they are not me?

I had a hard time believing #4

I wondered why about the end of # 11 but that would have to do with H?

I laughed when I read # 12, I would really like to hear that one.

I laughed about #'s 14, and 15.

I feel bad for you about #'s 18 and 19.

You have a pretty good sense of Humor.

Think I'll save the other questions for later, glad you are happy.

SS

Hi SS

Yes, I had low grades when I went back to college. I think it was a 2.0, or very close, out of 90 credits. Not all of them were bad. I had enough credits to get a 2 year degree. I was lacking a few classes in each category to reach a graduation. In HS, I was a very studious student. Grade started to fall some in my Jr year. That was the same year I had Geometry and Chemistry, I also started my first job. I missed a week of school at the beginning of the school year for orientation for my job. That messed up my grades for these two classes. I missed the basics, and I was lost the whole year. I still tried. Then I went to college, and for some reason, I stopped being studious and started being the "party girl". My attitude was "you want me to open a book" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So, there went the GPA. Had no direction or goal, so when I turned 21, I decided I was an "adult" and had to stop playing around with going to school and get a "real" job. Went back a few time, tried different stuff. Those grades were much better, A's, B's or C's depending upon the class. I also have a hard time with new instructors or instructors that are not regulars at the school. I don't learn well from them. Managed to bring the GPA up to a 2.46, had to have a 2.50 to apply to the nursing program. I petitioned in, and requested they look at my current gpa and not my past gpa. Which was around a 3.0. (I think). Anyway, they did and accepted me. I know I would be doing better if I did not have so much on my plate. I hardly study. I usually study about 10- 20 hours before each test. EAch test has about 4 weeks worth of material and we meet twice a week. So, I guess I'm not doing bad, considering.

My H, goes camping and fishing. Does not take me and or the kids with. I decided last summer, that after I am done with school and pass boards, I will take the kids fishing. Pack a picnic lunch, head out to a local lake and fish from shore.

Babble when nervous - i do, I talk dumb talk, irrelevant talk, mostly talk to talk.

What can I say about 14 & 15. As a kid, I knew every present my parent bought me every year. For me, that was half the fun. I knew every hiding spot, knew when I could look and my parents also would discuss what to buy us at the kitchen table. My bedroom was in the basement. (we outgrew the house, so my parents made two rooms in the basement). The basement stairs were off the kitchen. I knew how to walk up the steps and they would not creek. I's sit there and listen. That was fun too. I knew what everyone was getting.

18 & 19, don't feel bad for me. Once I finish school, I might feel different about working. The wanting to be a stay at home mom started after the birth of my D. I love my boys, but I did not desire it. I may have been because H was in school, so I had to work, so I didn't think of it.

When I'm done with school, I'm thinking of trying to find a 12 hour shift job. I know I will have to mainly work off shifts, so if I work 12 hour shifts, I will be home more days in a two week period. A friend of mind does that. She is classified a .9, which means she is scheduled to work 72 hours out of 80. She works 12 hour shifts mostly and works 6 days out of 14. Sure beats my 10 days out of 14.

SS - I tried finding your story, I was curious about you. I didn't find any threads that looked like you started them. Are things going good for you?

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Actually,
I am an elf that lives at the north pole. I do this im my spare time. Right now I am supposed to be repairing the harness for the sleigh but last year it looked really good, so.......

I think I did my story once but it is not as exciting as yours. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow at work where I have a faster computer.

My W and I are doing very well, I only wish that gift could be given to all.

SS

Well, Elf, could you please relay to Santa what I want for Christmas - for OW to get a man of her own, and I don't mean mine. Okay, the selfishness aside.

Really, I'm doing good today. H, well, he sometimes tries to pick fights. I don't bite, He can fight alone.

He has been rather receptive to ideas lately. Such as, tomorrow is our anniversary. I asked him if he wanted me to take the night off of work so we could celebrate. He asked what about the kids, do we have someone to watch them. I said not yet. If I cannot find a sitter, we can have a nice dinner at home with the kids and have a nice evening at home. He was infavor of it. WOW. This is new.

I suggested we combine our phones on the family plan, he is okay with that too.

I suggested we get a new family picture taken, since the last one, we only had one child, we now have three. He wants to do this too.

I didn't bombard him at one time with these. Just when the occassion to mention it came up, he was receptive.

I was discussing his softball for next spring. The team I'm not allowed to go watch, he might not play with them next year. What's up with this? We will see come spring.

There is one thing bugging me, but not too much. At the christmas party, this one man, who I usually see only at the party, a friend of H. As we were getting ready to leave, he says to me, it is nice to see you two together again. Again? the only time he sees me is at this annual function. Then he quickly added, stuff about my being in school and H not being able to get sitters to attend union meetings. Didn't make sense. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. It just took me by surprise. I'm not going to let this one bug me too much

So, how is the harness repair going?

I have to finish up christmas shopping. We blew it on the santa gifts. D wants a doll house, we got her Rapunzel Barbie, S1 wants yu-gi-oh cards, and so does s2. I have not gotten H's gift, so I have to get myself moving on that. I think I will do it this weekend. First thing to tackle tommorow is the mountain in my dining room I call folded laundry. After 4 months I've finally accepted that they will not walk themselves to the closet and dressers, so I will have to help. I have about 10 boxes of clothes to donate that he kids outgrew. Just that alone might make my house look clean again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I decided to get back into an exercise routine. Maybe I will be able to get myself into those jeans by the time school starts up again without looking like a "jumping bean" or have to suck my belly button into my spine to snap and zip. (yes, now I can laugh about it.)

I spoke to Santa, and he says: ( quote)
"I don't get involved in domistic disputes, I learned my lesson dealing with the MRS."

So, it looks like you are on your own with that one.

I can't find my story. I never did bookmark it and now it's in limbo. If I don't find it first thing tomorrow, I'll do a condensed version.

You should know that I first posted to you because I wandered by one day and you had posted for a few times with no reply. I didn't want you to think that no one cared, so I possted. I see now that you get around and use this one to vent and journal. You are pretty widely traveled and well known. If I had known, I may not have come by again, but I am stuck now that I have been here a while. So, I dont't know how much help I will be, but I still care.
I still think you are on the right track. It has got to be hard right now, you are getting such mixed signals from H. However the best course is always plan A as long as you can. When you are nice to people, they are more likely to want to spend time with you.

Wishing the best for you.
SS