Dear Sue:

don't snoop! Enjoy the time together. I'm sure that deposits love units in his bank as well!

Glad to hear you guys are doing better. Many times actions say more than words.

Congratulations on the passing score! Keep up the good work! Remember: short posts at MB and more time studying...o.k.? You can do it! Your frinds here at MB are proud of you-right guys?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<<<Hugs>>>

Sue,

Congrats on the test -- way to go!!!!!!

Great that your H invited you to go with him. Liza is right about the LB$. Keep remembering the positive -- you each got to do things you wanted: he wanted to watch the game and you wanted (in reality probably had to) to study, so everything worked out.

Keep up the good work.

FHO

Thanks - how is that for short

Here I sit balancing the checkbook (H knows we are running the budge tight) and what do I see, a charge on the debit card for Dammon's resturaunt for 51 dollars. Now, I know that it does not cost 51 dollars for one to eat at Damons. This charge was for last Tuesday. Golly gee, his brother was in Australia, so I know he didn't go out with him. His mom had the kids that evening, so who could he have been with. This makes me the maddest. I am not dating her, so he does not have the right to spend my money on her!!!!!!!! I honestly thought that maybe it was over. I know he did not go with anyone else, if he had he would have said something to me. This is also the night he went to watch the Twins play in the playoffs. Did she buy the tickets, that he claimed he got from a friend who could not go.

Okay, I will be reasonable, lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Lets say, he paid for dinner at Damon's and his friend (not her), paid for the tickets for the game. That does not explain why he did not say anything to me. I find charges like this all the time on the bank statement. At least 2x per month. H makes many cash withdrawals.

Confronting him about it and interrogating him to find who went with him would bust your plan A.

Perhaps you could just mention that you've noticed some extra charges, and very lovingly ask that, since 'our' family is on a tight budget, would he consider gradually reducing these expenses.

Hi Relate,
I'll try that. So far I have not said anything

I know this does not apply to my topic -

Had another test today. It was grueling. The subject was Mental Health.

I PASSED with an 85%. Where is the dancing icon, so instead I will use <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Two more to go.

two more papers to write

Came to LB.

H calls me, ready to strangle the kids (figure of speech). He says he does not want to be a dad anymore. (frustration)

So, I ask what happened? He had class tonight (requirement to keep his license). His mom was watching the kids. He comes home and finds spilled pop in the kids room, empty pop cans all over the house, a chewed eraser on the floor, winter coats on the floor (i guess I have new rugs), kids not listening, potato chip bag in the living room and he says there is more. I wanted to scream - welcome to my world. Now you know how I feel when I come home to a sink full of dishes, stuff all over the floors, clothes I just folded and told the kids and you to put away all over the house, a path of clothes from starting point to ending point as the items are removed from the body. (MIL watched kids, she thinks I am too harsh to give my kids responsibility such as cleaning up after themselves, so when she watches them the house is trashed even worse than when H is home. I will give him credit, he does make them clean up behind themselves, now if H could do the same after himself, we would have real progress). Instead of saying what I wanted to , I said "I know it is frustrating to come home to this. I fully understand. I also said I will not say it again about what happens when certain individuals watch the kids). I think she needs to watch them at her house. He knew what I was hinting at.

Anyway, had to vent so I didn't vent to H about "now you know what I go through"

I think I like 2nd shift - just kidding) I miss not being home with my family

Today is a very bad day. I just wanted to vent that.

<small>[ November 01, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

What happened? From what I gather, are you away from him and the children at the moment? Where?

Hi Relate,

I live at home with H and kids. It was just a very bad day. My #1s calls me at work, crying. H was yelling at him in the background. We have S in counseling because he has some eating issues. We have a plan we are working on. H does not follow the agreed upon plan. His excuse is, I don't know what we are supposed to do. I tell him what was decided. H will not come to appt and participate, I have made the appt the first on, the last one, in the middle of the day, anything to try and make in easy for H to attend. After each appt I tell H how it went and what was agreed upon as the next step. H is not following the agreed upon step, so S does not do his part either, it ends up being a big fight between them. H has some controlling tendencies. Not severe, he cannot control me, so he does not try. He tries to control the kids, but their personalities are such that they cannot be controled. H threatened to kick S out (he's 9). I told H he cannot talk that way to S. H said he did not want to be a father anymore. H is a conflict avoider. His mom is a conflict avoider, his brother is a conflict avoider. Anytime things get rough H wants to bail. I know in H's growing up, with his dad, if you din't do things H's dad's way, he does not talk to you. H's mom is a little better. Except she will kick you out. She kicked H out when he was 15 because she did not like his girlfriend. She admits to it to this day. The only reason why she did not like this girl is because this girl lived near H's mom sister. H's mom sister is overly opinionated and critical of everyone. She one time yelled at this girl because she was walking past her house. (At the time, H's aunt was having some mental issues. She has been diagnosed with depression and paronoid). H's aunt was convinced the only reason this girl was dating H was to bug the aunt. The only place for him to go was to dad's who lived above a bar that hookers worked out of. My In laws are weird. I gave you this info, so you can understand where my H is coming from. So, he was raised with controlling and manipulative behavior, so he tries to be controlling and manipulative. I refuse to be controlled or manipulated, I had the biggest influence on my kids, and they have the personalities where they cannot be controlled or manipulated. I don't think H would be physically abusive. If he did, he knows I would not hesitate to take care of that. The kids would tell me. Once, my H made the mistake of telling our oldest that he was going to cut off his hands if he messed with the lock on the door again. H over reacted. I'm home on maternity leave, kids were on Christmas break. Son is 5 at the time. H turned the lock on the bedroom door and pulled the door shut. I could not jimmy the door open, so I was stuck in my Pj's all day. No big deal. I didn't have anywhere to go. H gets home, I ask him to open the door. He yells at S and tells him if he does it again he will cut his hands off. S asks how? H says with a saw S looked a littled scared. I immediately told H he cannot talk that way to him. H tried to justify it by saying he didn't mean it, but he wanted to get his point across. So I said to H, you got your point across. Now, say son tells a classmate or his teacher what you said. The classmate tells his mom, his mom calls police or the school. Now we have the county knocking on our door wanting to know what is going on. It does not matter that you didn't mean it, it matters that you said it and it is called verbal abuse. To my knowledge, he has not talked that way to S except this past incident.

H's family to outsiders come across as very loving and supportive. Once you are in, then you see the real picture. His family always critisizes my family. My family is very close and loving. They have even referred to us as a clan. We do alot together, my sisters are always there for each other. H's family has had the attitude that because H and I are married, I know longer have a family that I came from. I should have all my involvments with H's family and ignore my family. (That didn't last long, I made if clear that I came from a very good family)

Anyway, that is why I was having a very bad day.

#1S is a good boy and I want to keep him that way. He is smart, he does not see it. He is loving and generous, helpful. He thinks his father does not love him. He will not talk to him, not like he does me. He thinks he can't talk to him.

I thought things were goint to start to improve.

I don't think things will every improve. If it comes to it, and i have to choose between H and son, son will win. Right now I am soooooooooooooooooooo maaaaaadddddddddddddddddddd at H I could scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

He is back at yelling at #1S. H is does not get it. S wants to do well, he puts so much pressure on himself that he gets so frustrated when he does not get it. H, only yells at him and make it worse. I don't know what to do. I have to figure something out. S needs space from H. H is slowly destroying him. I will post more later. I have to vent this.

When I finish school, I am filing for Divorce. There is no working this out!!!!!!

I thought things were getting better. He tell me he is going to Las Vegas with some event sponsored by a local radio station here. I was not in favor of it. I was wondering if she was going because, he did not take any money out of the account. He claims he has another account somewhere. She works in a Credit Union. So, I called the hotel my H is staying at. I asked to be connected to her room. Guess what, they rang her room. I had to know. After all, I have been 2 years without a dryer, and he goes to Vegas with her. This is UNFORGIVABLE. Now, I have to start making plans for who will watch the kids while I work.

Last night I called up H and left him a message in the hotel room. He calls me this morning, I didn't hear the phone ring. He left me two messages. He was trying to be mad, he was not mad, he was nervous. Afraid that I will bust him. He claims that he is mad because they have a bet on how many times I will call. He says his nickname is "short lease" because I keep him on a short lease. THAT IS BULL****. He does what he wants, when he wants with no regard to me or the kids. Most "family" men do not go on ski trips once a year, fishing trips once a year, miscellaneous weekend trips.

He claims he said, that I was not supposed to call him unless there was something wrong with one of the kids. We never discussed it, and I would never have agreed to it. Who does he think he is to tell me what to do.

He is destroying my family, my kids. I wonder if this has been going on our whole marriage. What kind of woman stays in this kind of relationship. I'm so glad she is having fun at the expense of my kids. That 600+ dollars that he is spending out there, could have boughten me a new dryer, a new dishwasher, some new clothes. Could have paid off a bill, there is many different ways I could have applied that money to benefit the family. Well, he wants to be a free and single man, he can be a free and single man, he can have the child support payment and the weekend visits that goes along with it. I on the other hand, once I am divorced will go and find a real man, not some small boy is a mans body.

Now, to implement this. Who can watch the kids so I can finish school? If I wait until I graduate, who will watch the kids when I work the off shifts, because I will be. There are very few straight day shift these days.

No one wants to move in to help with the kids. I figure I will try to get a straight 3rd shift, when I leave for work, they will be in bed. I will have put them to bed. All I need is someone to be there during the nighttime hours, to get them up and maybe off to school. I will make sure all is ready for them. I have to get this figured out. I cannot stay with this man any longer than necessary. It will be one year this April since I made this discovery, or should I say confirmation.

Well, my oldest son this morning asked me to divorce his dad.

I was telling them that their dad will be home on Saturday. And wanted to know if they were looking forward to it. Son #2, didn't care, D, she adores daddy, and Son #1, says "why don't you divorce him" He loves and hates his father at the same time. Boy, what a thing to deal with.

I am going to see if H will at least attend family counseling. Maybe he can at least improve his R with his son. If it is not too late.

Sue,
I don't know if I can help much, but wanted you to know that someone is reading your thread, and cares. I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling. I am sorry for the work you must do with no help or support from H.

Keep helping the children, keep improving yourself, someday you will get the payback, so don't give up.( I know you won't but wanted to encourage you.)

One of the tools I use to overcome the problems is to pretend. I just pretend things are better, and I pretend that I can really cope when I feel I am falling apart, and I pretend that tomorrow will be better even though I have no hope that it will be. After a time, I notice things are not so bad, and I really do feel better.

Note, don't pretend you have $100.00 in your wallet when you don't, the stores don't think it's funny.

Keep trying, don't give up.
SS

SS,

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I will give it a try. At least for a little while. A time will come where I will have to make a decision. I think this went one before I decided to go back to school, so I know my going to school was not part of the issue. I think this has been going on for as long as we have been married or close to it.

Our 5th anniversary is coming up in December. All I have ever wanted for a present was an anniversary ring. I never had an engagement ring. If he gave me that, I would have believed he thought I was special and I mattered. Whenever I bring it up, he blows me off, or ignores me. Our first anniverary, he forgot, he added insult to injury by grabbing a christmas present he bought for me and put the kids name on it (an electric can opener). Then he went and played hockey instead of staying home with me. Our second anniversay, he was out of town, Working out of town, he managed to call. He did come home for christmas and new years. Our 3rd anniversay, I don't even remember, maybe he made me a nice dinner. Last year, he took me out, to a quick place to eat, then we had to get back because he was supposed to meet some people on line for a raid (he plays Everquest)(I will refrain from stating my opinion about that). He had just gone back to work after being laid off since October, so we decided no gifts that year. After the first one, I could not get into our anniversary, so I had troubles getting past buying him a card.

I know some of what I do does not help things with us, such as, he keeps wondering when I will fix his jacket, (needs a new zipper) but I will find time to sew for the kids (or I used to). I have trouble doing anything in the sewing area for him because the fathers day that he became a daddy to our second son, I made him and the boys matching zubbas and tank tops. (I know, sounds corney). But I put alot of thougth into this. I started in back in February when I was on maternity leave with our second child. (he had already met OW). He did not like the gift. After that it took me awhile to even enjoy sewing for my kids. Now, I take pride in what I sew for the kids, however, I still have a hard time bring myself to sew for him, even if it means fixing a zipper. (I have not had time to sew for the kids since school I went back to school). I made their Halloween costumes every years since my oldest was a baby, I made my D's babtism dress. I made some of my maternity clothes. I used to love to cook, and I dont' mean meatloaf and stuff like that. Once a week, I used to find a really nice dish to prepare, (I like the Frugal Gormet cooking with wine) he started critisizing my cooking, so now, I have very little desire to cook past the basics, what can I prepare in the shortest amount of time.

He has to destroy everthing around him.

Hold on - phone ringing

I'm back, it was H. I had to call and leave him a message about I forget what now, I recall, while I was talking, the ring issue crossed my mind, so my voice started to break up. So, I told him how important it means to me, and how it effects me when he takes these trips and has no desire to take me. (I probably shouldn't have). Well, I think it made him feel guilty. Not my intent. I truly didn't mean to say anything. He says that we can go to vegas in December. I know he was thinking our anniversary. I have a final on our anniversay. Nothing I can do about that.

How can I stop crying over this. I need to. He will be home tomorrow afternoon. I cannot let him see me this way. He just called a little bit ago, and said I sounded down. I used the excuse that I have a sinus infection (which I do). But, as I tell you this I makes me cry. It brings back all the hurt I am feeling. I need to get things under control.

Does a drunken stupor help-probably not. Besides, when I am drunk I say what is on my mind, so not the wisest course of action in trying to forget. I also hate the hangovers, and taking care of kids while on a hangover is no fun. So, I guess I will just have to find a way to manage. I also believe that H's brother knows.

I won't get drunk. I feel to ill to stomach the booze.

I thougth things were improving. How could I be so blind. HOw? how? how?

Well, H got back from his vacation. I can tell by his voice when he lies. It sounds, unsure. It took me a long time to distingquish this.

Anyway, it hurts alot to know that this has been going on for most of my marriage if not all. A fomrer neighbor told me that he was seen by her husband and kids many times making phone calls from the store nearby (before H had a cell phone). She told me it was before the store closed down. The store closed down about 6 - 9 months after we moved into the house. We bought the house about 6 months after we were married.

I used to wonder why he spent alot of time downtown. Now I know. I wonder why she went from retail sales to working in a credit union. She was a manager in sales. She could get a manager job anytime.

I was so stupid to have even considered marrying him. I wanted so much to beleive that once we were married, that he was ready to make a committment. I don't think if ever ended. So, if that is the case, how could this be because of me not meeting his needs. If I was not meeting them before the marriage, why marry me, unless it was because of the kids?

I hope i can make it until May. I don't know if that is possible. I do love him.

I am going to see if he will go to one of the marriage builder seminars, but I'm not counting on it.

Hi Sue,
I hope you don't mind if I ramble for a few lines. I just finished reading this thread and sometimes it helps not to go right along and read every few days.
First, It really does look like your H is living a double life. It looks like he has come to terms with it and he is happy and thinks you don't have a clue. Some of the things he does are too blatant for someone that is being careful and trying to hide stuff. The Las Vegas trip is a dead giveaway, and I can't believe he thinks he is hiding things from you.

I can see improvement in you but I can also see that his behavior is starting take it's toll on you. You are starting to withdraw and you don't want to meet his needs because he has taken away from you one of the most precious things a marriage is supposed to have. Actually he has taken away love, trust, friendship, financial support ( in part) and recreational companionship - and that is just with my skimming the thread. I can see where you would get tired of it, it shouldn't be this way. I can also see you are wanting love and you want someone to meet your needs, and I recommend you be careful with your feelings until this is over with.

You have a lot of hope, ( I like your name, BTW.) Some days you just want to be done with it, but most days you hold out hope that something will change him and he will be the kind of H he should be.

My feeling is that he won't change without some kind of shock ( plan B, or D,) and even then it will take a long time for him to learn and change enough for him to be the companion you are looking for. I believe it would take him 3 to 5 years if he was fully committed to making the changes.

His family supports him? It sounds like he can do no wrong to them. If you do ever file, I recommend hiring a PI and getting a film and if they get ugly, send a copy to them. In fact, it would be a good way to go to plan B. Sit on the couch and start the tape and then hand him the plan B letter and walk out.

I know you have been working on your M and you will continue to do so, I think the world of you for your commitment and the work you have done. I may be wrong in some of my observations but for him to continue to meet her weekly, and go on a trip to LV with her, I think he is secure in his other life, and happy and thinks he can go on for a long time with it. I don't think talking to him or goint to a MB weekend will help him, he has been doing it for too long.

I know you post all around the forum, I really haven't read everything you post, but I know you asked at least once about choosing a lawyer. I recommend you get one and find out all your options. You may not need to use them, but if you do, knowledge is power.

I am sorry you are in the middle of his problems, I wish you were out of school and could call the shots now. I hope you can continue to cope with the bad parts. When I first posted I hadn't read your whole story, but now that I have I think it still applies. If you can't make it, pretend until you can, and keep going on. You are a very brave person and I admire your courage and strength. I believe in you, and I know you do also or you would have quit by now. Thank you for your post, it helps me continue to believe in the strength of the human spirit. The other thing that I rely on is prayer, I hope it works for you also. I will pray for you.
May God bless you to be happy in the end, no matter what.
SS

SS,
Thanks for your kind words. I have tried pretending, and so far it has helped.

I know what I know, at times it seems like a dream. Especially when he is here. He acts like all is okay.

Did I mention that when we got married, I went without the engagement ring. For the last five years I've been telling him that I want one. His response was I need a dryer more than I need a ring. I need a dryer more than he needed to go to Las Vegas.

I will inquire into the PI route. If anything, I don't want him to try to lie his way out of it, which is what he will try to do. This way he can't.