Here is my story, please bear with me......My wife is on here and suggested I give it a try.

Eighteen months ago, my wife and I were having some marital problems, we did go see a counselor, ( I am very sceptical of counselors, by the way) and tried to get things worked out. She was over controlling about money, and didn't want me to go with the boys since I used to drink quite a bit when I was younger....in my late teens and early twenties. I was the wilder one with no sense of responsibility when it comes to time and fun...even though my son (now six) always came first.
We worked on it and it seemed to be getting better, then, I got a promotion to another part of the country, and had to go to another city for eight months for some training, only returning for a weekend every two weeks.
This is where my problem begins. There was a woman in my courses that spoke a different language than the rest of us and very little english. This small detail is what ruined my life, because I am bilingual and spoke her language, which gave us an instant relationship whether we wanted it or not. She was a very attractive and extremely fun to be with...I guess you can figure out what happened next. We thought we fell in love with each other and began a relationship that I will never forget. We only slept together a couple of times, but the friendship and companionship is what I seemed to long for during that period in my life.
My wife found out about us, and things got a little crazy for a while, then something happened that no one expected, she forgave me and wanted to work on our relationship.....God love her.
My problem seems to be harder to fix, I lived with my family for a few months trying to forget what had happened and not getting the proper help (counsellors....) Then I couldn't take it anymore, all I seen when I looked at my wife and son is the face of the other woman, not because I wanted to be with her, because of the guilt and shame of what I brought to these two wonderful people. Zach seems to be adjusting fine (I've been gone now for nine months and have him three days/week and every second weekend.)
All I want is to fix what I'm feeling and I believe the rest will follow....do I want to continue with my wife and son? I think so, but I can't seem to face her anymore, although me and my son have a great relationship.
I have tried the counselling, but it doesn't seem to work for me (not believing in it I guess) I've tried to read the books my wife suggested that she found on this site....not for me...damn it.
Its come to the point now where I don't care if I ever have a relationship with my wife ( I always will with my son)....I just want to have a head clear of guilt and resentment towards myself. My wife and I have a good freindship, but I have a hard time looking her in the face, or staying for coffee, or having lunch with her.....what the....
Is there anyone out there than can give me any advice as to what to do with myself....I don't sleep, I don't date, I don't go out....I just work (sometimes too much) and spend as much time wtih my son as possible......I was such a happy go lucky guy, I just want to be ME again.... alone, with my wife or with someone else, it doesnt' matter anymore.....Peace of mind is all I seek....thats all......

sorry for being so long winded, and its not even close to what I actually want to say.........its the readers digest version....just didn't think anyone would continue to read.
Thanks
ZachsDad

Dear Zachsdad,

I doesn't sound like the OW is still in the picture and you do love your family. You first need to decide if you want to married, and if not then why? Sometimes people get feelings of hopelessness without trying different things. I would definitely recommend marriage counselling because maybe some peace will come between you and your W and that will help give you peace. Only you can decide to stop punishing yourself..

Does your W bring the A up a lot, reminding you, is it something you fight about? Just from your post it sounds like you are the one holding you back. Do you know why you had the A? Maybe this is what you are lacking? Sometimes when we don't know why we did something horrible, it will haunt us. That might be where MC will work with you and your W, you can learn to come to peace with it together....

Living away from home is not always the best decision either, although the reasons may seem clear. You need to be around people who love you and who can remind you why they love you. Being lonely is not always the answer, it can make things seem more hopeless.

I cheated on my H, and every morning I need to wake up saying that I am worth happiness and I deserve it. My H hasn't forgiven me yet but we are working on it, and it takes all the energy I have to think positively about me and what I did. You and your W could be stronger because of this if you just learn to accept it as a part of you two and deal with it...You have a child and a wife that deserve to have you, you definitely need to forgive yourself, cause it sounds like you have been forgiven...Start talking positively to yourself every day, figure out why the A happened, let your family love you...

Good luck and God bless

Have you gone to your doctor for help? If you haven't you may want to because a lot of people with a history of alcohol abuse, do suffer from depression and/or other mental conditions that are treatable thru medication. I would urge you to look into this because it just may hold the key to your personal and marital recovery.

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

This is from my husband. I asked him to read your story and to offer you the help that he has finally gotten. You don't have to live with this shame. You can face it and heal it and save your son from taking on the burden of it if you are willing. God bless.

Stillwed

Dear ZachsDad,

First of all, I am not Stillwed. Stillwed is my wife, and I am the WS (I guess that stands for “wayward spouse”, but I also think it definitely means “way stupid.”) I do not post here, although my wife and I regularly read the posts together and discuss them, sometimes brainstorming on what advice or encouragement to give. My wife asked me what I thought about your situation, and rather than her act as an intermediary, we both thought I it would be best for me to reply to you directly, particularly because I can address your issues from the perspective of someone who has been in your shoes.

It’s been over six months now since our D-Day, and so much has happened over so short a period of time. Rather than go through all the particulars of our situation, suffice it to say that I have been where you are, although many times over. I have been a repeat offender, having to deal with sex and love addiction over the course of most of my life – I’m 45. Before you mentally dismiss our situations as being too dissimilar, let me encourage you to thoughtfully consider what I am about to share with you.

In your post you said, “I was such a happy go lucky guy, I just want to be ME again.... alone, with my wife or with someone else, it doesnt' matter anymore.....Peace of mind is all I seek....thats all......” So, if peace of mind is what you seek, I need to ask you this – are you willing to do what it takes to get you there? What’s at risk for you to embark on this journey of self-discovery and healing? I think you are running, running from your wife, running from your problems, and most of all, running from yourself. Been there, done that, and believe me, there comes a time in your life when running becomes far more difficult than being a man and facing your self. I say this not to judge or condemn you, but because this is what you need to here, from another man who almost ruined his life and his marriage and the lives of my children. I so desperately wish another man would have had the backbone to confront me in my wayward state and tell me to get my head out of my rear end. But men in our culture do not confide in other men, we do not confront other men when they are on the wrong path, and we do not emotionally support other men on their journeys. I have since found this type of support and nurturing from other men, and I will share more about that later.

You said you’ve tried counselors and books, both to no avail. Now you are seeking help here, and I applaud you for that. However, you sound like a man who is seeking some sort of “quick fix” or magical answer to cure what ails him. There is no quick fix to your situation, and to expect other wise is just another form of running. What would you think if I told you I was having mechanical problems with my car, but I was uncomfortable with the first few mechanics I dealt with, and that I had tried reading car books to try and fix the car myself, and that neither one worked for me? You would probably tell me to keep trying to find another mechanic, keep looking for car books I could understand, or go get another car. The problem with this metaphor is that the “car” in this situation represents your life, and it’s the only one you get. If you don’t seek the support you need to deal with your problems, your going to end up stranded somewhere on the road of life, with no family, no friends, and no support. You need to keep trying and not give up on the counseling and books so easily.

Bottom line is this – YOU NEED TO DO THE WORK. You need to take the “hero’s journey” and descend into that deep abyss of your own heart and find out why you cheated on your wife. You need to stop blaming her, the situation you were in, and all other factors and take the responsibility for the fact that you took the cowards’ way out. No matter how bad your marriage was, what a witch your wife may have been, how many opportunities you had, you violated your marriage vows and acted out of integrity. Whether or not you wish the marriage to survive is now secondary in all of this. You need to get better for yourself, and for your son. The shame you feel WILL get passed on to your son and your other offspring if you don’t deal with it in your own life. You think your son is adjusting fine, but children show remarkable resilience in the face of imminent danger. What will happen if you don’t get healed is that sometime in your son’s life, probably in his thirties or forties, this shame will surface in the form of some sort of acting out. It could be infidelity, it could be some form of substance abuse, it could be physical violence, it could end up being any number of things. The point is, you can bring an end to this hurt and shame, IF YOU DO THE WORK!

So, what is the work? Simply put, the work is one of self -discovery and inner healing. It can happen via many mediums and channels – counseling, reading, journaling, deep introspection, spiritual work, etc. One strong point I’d also like to make is that this work is very, very difficult to do on your own. You need the help of other men (definitely not other women!) to be there for you. Let me suggest this men’s group: The Mankind Project – www.mkp.org. I went to a weekend retreat several months ago that totally changed my life. I now go to a weekly men’s group where a group of men support, love, nurture, and when necessary, confront one another about the issues we as men in our culture face. The organization is international, so I’m sure there are groups in your state.

In closing, if you need further advice or assistance, please feel free to contact me. My wife, Stillwed, is quite active on this list, and she will relay any request to me. If I seemed a little harsh, it was not to hurt or shame you, but to wake you up. I was in such a deep coma for so many years, it took a bunch of men to get real with me in my life for me to embrace the kind of man I know I am – one of integrity and accountability. This type of man lives in you, too, he just needs a wake up call.

Vaya con Dios,
Stillwed’s husband

zachsdad,

You are getting some good responses here. I hope you have come back to read them. The best way to get responses is to reply to each person who posts to you. Then people will know you are still around and interested in the help. I want to post to you but want to make sure you are still around before I do.

Z

zachsdad,

I think the advice on the depression might be worth looking into. Depression is not just walking around sad all the time or being suicidal, depression is getting in "low" feeling that you can't shake, not having the ability or energy to change things in your life-and it affects men a lot more than you could imagine.

Another note from Hanora, that you are hurting your family more by punishing yourself is something worth thinking about. I am going to assume a connection between you and Zacharysmom, and she truly wants to work on this for all three of you, and by you ending your marriage you are punishing everyone for your ONE mistake.

Another note from Stillwed's H about peace of mind-you will NEVER get it as long as this A is not dealt with and your feelings for your marriage resolved.

Keep well, stay in touch!!!

You did make a comment "I don't care if i ever have a relationship with my wife", what are your feelings for her through all this-besides guilt...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there anyone out there than can give me any advice as to what to do with myself....I don't sleep, I don't date, I don't go out....I just work (sometimes too much) and spend as much time wtih my son as possible......I was such a happy go lucky guy, I just want to be ME again.... alone, with my wife or with someone else, it doesnt' matter anymore.....Peace of mind is all I seek....thats all...... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">zachsdad - seeking peace of mind and regaining our "center", our "self-respect", the respect others, etc. are a major part of what all of us want.

Your "guilty conscience" is a little warning from God that you cannot sin and "get away with it". But, since I don't know your personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I will limit my comment as to what you can do to "get started" on the path to regaining that which you desire.

The first step is a relationship with God. That can only happen through Jesus Christ. Upon your repentence of sin and acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you are immediately forgiven of your past sins. The slate, so to speak, is wiped clean.

Now that might seem a simplistic answer to you, but once someone has actually accepted Christ, they begin to learn just what godly, and God's, forgiveness is really all about and all that it entails.

If you'd like a to read up a little more on forgiveness and even forgiving yourself, might I suggest you read a thread on the Recovery Forum. For sake of convenience for you, if you'd like to read it, I will provide the link to it here:

Forgive? Trust? Really? Has anything been learned in the past year?

And just a P.S., I only saw this thread because I searched for it based upon a comment that your wife made on a different forum. I, like a lot of others, rarely spend time on the JFO forum because the level of pain is intense from most posters. I do stop by, but it is very infrequent. If you are interested in comments from others who have been down the recovery road, then perhaps you might consider posting on the Recovery Forum as well as here.

God bless. The road is not easy, but there is hope.

I guess I will pipe up since i am part of the equation...I hope the veterans and WW are seeing this and will give advice. I have battled this for over a year and know beyond anything else that we belong together, and probably until the last couple months I wasn't sure if you felt that way. Now I know, you want to be home with your family, but your fear of doing this again and living with what you did eat you up...Well, you will never ever know if you are capable of doing this again-as no one is, you can only be aware that it could happen and take certain precautions. Radical honesty and some marriage counselling will bring the whys and the hows to light...Unless you are ready to live your life as you are living it, you need to take that risk...We can talk to Zach about us trying again and always be honest with him,...If we cannot make it work for whatever reason then we will always know we tried our best for us and our son!!!!! I am always here for you, you know that...I love you..

keeping this active...bumping

keeping fresh....bumping

ZD - your experience with counselors is common. Click on the link in my signature line, and read the section after #2. Perhaps it will help. There are good ones, but they are hard to find.

I like the idea of a men's group. I have also personally found the book "Wild at Heart" to be very helpful. I am a stay at home dad, and every other book I have read that said "men are like X" left me unimpressed. WAH is different.

Thanks all of you who have responded. I really appreciate it, however, I have just received an email from my wife stating that she thinks we should end it. The reasons she states are valid and I don't blame her one bit. She believes I have given up, and to tell the truth, I think I have. Counsellors, books and talking to people just doesn't work for me. I've tried things I don't believe in, therefore thats probably why it wouldn't work anyway. I came on here for one last chance at finding peace with myself and everyone seems to want me to go to counselling with my wife. This doesn't make sense to me, how am I supposed to fix myself by dragging her down again. I can't look her in the face without feeling like ****, how can I work on our marriage? If I am wrong, I hope she doesn't find anyone else to love before I find out how wrong I am. Its time for her to live her life, instead of wasting it waiting for me.I hope she can forgive me for ruining her life.....twice in one year.
She doesn't want contact with me anymore, except on a casual basis when its unavoidable with our son. This is proabably my last email here, but I will check to see if anyone has help just for me, I want to fix myself first, then perhaps, if she's still around, work on things with her.
I'm done with the counseling, but will look for a mens group like was suggested in one of the original responses. One last grab at the brass ring, if not, guess its not meant to be.
Sorry all for kinda wasting all your time, you seem like really good people and for the ones who've responded and have healed....
I envy you.

zachsdad, the way you "fix" yourself and get over your guilt and shame is by making amends to your family. NOT by cruelly continuing to punish them with your absence. [you might see your son alot, but the fact remains that he now has a part-time dad] How can you feel guilt and shame for betraying your spouse and child, but absolutely none for LEAVING them? I don't get it.

You have someone who is willing to forgive you and what do you do? You punish her for it. You not only punish her with your adultery, but you punish her because you feel uncomfortable facing her. To me, that is the height of cruelty.

I feel sad for your wife and family and only hope you can take an honest look at what is really happening here. I wish you the best.

Hi ZD,

I agree with MelodyLane, although I am sure it is not easy being in your shoes. She is right, you are punishing your family even more, and maybe the way to alleviate this guilt is to make amends for the past...There is definitely open arms, forgiveness does need to come from you, but maybe you need to around the positive things in your life....Don't give up because you don't know what to do, I hear the pain in your thread and you are not happy, the peace of mind may be your family. If you continue to live the way you do, then your bad feelings will never subside.

It sounds like your W established No contact, and if you read up on a Plan B, you will see why (Is the other person still in the picture??)...You need to decide to make the changes within your heart, and forgive yourself, we have all made mistakes, but none so bad that we and the people we love should pay for it for the rest of their lives.

See your Dr about Depression(there are mild cases), talk to a priest or pastor-maybe forgiveness of a higher power....Talk with a friend or family, but don't just resolve yourself to your guilt..You have a W and son who love you, and yes, you will be his Dad,but always a part time dad....hang in there and keep in touch, we want to hear of your success...

Zachsdad,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Counselors, books and talking to people just doesn't work for me. I've tried things I don't believe in, therefore that’s probably why it wouldn't work anyway.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Congratulations, you have managed to do it. you have managed to end your marriage and make your wife do the dirty deed. The things that you say you do not believe in are exactly the things that will help you. They are the only things we as humans have available to us to help us through hard times. Since you don’t believe in them then there is nothing you can do.

There is only one way to rebuild your marriage. To do it. Not to try but to do it. Things like counselors (a good one), or a marriage coach, good books and solid friends are the support system you need. But hey, you don’t believe in that. Just like you did not believe in your marriage.

One of the major reasons you cannot get over your guilt and rebuild your marriage is not because you doing nothing to address it. To rebuild your marriage requires that you live in the same house as your wife. Do you think that someone learns to ride a horse by sitting in an apartment by themselves thinking about it? No, they get on the horse and ride it. Sure the horse may throw them a few times but eventually they get a feel for the horse. In order to rebuild the relationship with your wife you will need to spend 15-30 hours a week with her doing things that draw you close together. You will have to be with her so you can meet each other’s needs.

In order to get over your guilt, you will need to talk to her, answer her many questions, listen to her anger and hurt, comfort her. If you do not do these things then your marriage is guaranteed to fail.

By taking the attitude about getting help and not being a man and facing what you did, you have made the conscious decision to end your marriage. That is your choice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've tried things I don't believe in, therefore that’s probably why it wouldn't work anyway. I came on here for one last chance at finding peace with myself and everyone seems to want me to go to counseling with my wife. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, counseling is not a religion.

There is a thing that people who work with the emotionally disabled say to describe their clients… “I am in a capsule, in the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean, in a cave, in the dark. You will never be able to find me. But if you do not find me that only proves that you do not love me.”

This is what is going on with you. You have set up an impossible situation that pushes everyone away. What does it feel like in that capsule, in the cave at the bottom of the ocean? The pressure is getting pretty strong isn’t it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This doesn't make sense to me, how am I supposed to fix myself by dragging her down again. I can't look her in the face without feeling like ****, how can I work on our marriage? If I am wrong, I hope she doesn't find anyone else to love before I find out how wrong I am. Its time for her to live her life, instead of wasting it waiting for me. I hope she can forgive me for ruining her life.....twice in one year. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you are doing right now is dragging her down. Instead of ending the damage on d-day you have continued to drag this on, to drag her down with you. You know that you are loosing her. It is your doing. You know that you are sentencing your son to a life with his dad only once a week or so. Too bad you don’t feel strongly enough about your family to fight to keep it together. Every day that goes by makes it that much more likely that your wife will not be available to you if you ever come out of this fog you are so deeply hiding in.

It would be much more honest of you if you would just look your wife in the eye and tell her that you do not want to be married to her. That up to this point you have not had the guts to tell her so you kept pushing her away until she was forced into the position to make the choice to end the marriage. One more injury you are visiting on her.

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Zorweb ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Counsellors, books and talking to people just doesn't work for me. I've tried things I don't believe in, therefore thats probably why it wouldn't work anyway. I came on here for one last chance at finding peace with myself and everyone seems to want me to go to counselling with my wife. This doesn't make sense to me, how am I supposed to fix myself by dragging her down again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">zachsdad - One last time, at least from me, to offer a few suggestions that may help you. But I have severe reservations about "wasting" more time on someone who seems bent on self destruction. But in the interest of "one more try", I will offer you the following. What you do with it is up to you.

First, your comments in the quote display a selfishness and self-interest that blocks all attempts at dealing with the issue. You comment about "dragging her down again" is typical bullhockey that WS's use. It's just a different spin on the lie, "I can't tell my wife (or husband) because I don't want to hurt them". Yep, we are all so weak. Your wife knows about the affair and has tried to work with you to recover the marriage, but now you twist the lie and apply it to yourself. Why? Two main reasons. One is fear. You will have to do the hard work that is required. You will have to address the fact that you are, at least in part, a weak person and not a "strong man". You will have to change your behaviors, give up some things that you think you are "owed" or that are "just a part of who you are".

Second, you worry incessantly about the future. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but none of us can control the future. We can only control our actions today with a hope directed at molding a better future. We all have to live with the fact that there are no guarantees. We all have to live with the fact that the painful series of surgical procedures that we endure today are both necessary to prevent premature death and founded in the hope of a better life tomorrow. Can we be wrong? Sure. Our future may still end in death, but to ignore the needed surgery because it's "too personally painful" is self-fulfilling. To not have the surgery because we are worried and afraid that our spouse "can't handle" all the supportive personal care, dressing changes, etc. is to sell your spouse's love short...way short. You try to justify your lack of COMMITMENT to "she's given up on me". Sorry Charlie, there comes a point in everyone where they simply accede to YOUR wishes because YOU won't try, no matter how painful it is. YOU give up and leave them no supportive role to play.

You don't believe in reading or counseling. Give me a break. Just HOW have you learned things over the years? From the counsel of others, both live and through books I'll bet. Yet, now, when the counsel is directed at changes that you must make and a commitment that you must adhere to, you run away again because you are afraid to actually DO the hard work. It's much easier to just hide. Separate because it's easier, "out of sight, out of mind". A real manly way to address your problems. It's much easier to "give up" on your responsibilities as a husband and as a father. And don't give me any selfserving crud about a "part-time dad" is better than no dad. Of all the selfish things you could say, this one is the height of hubris. You have the opporunity to teach your child that one CAN fail and still get up and try again. But you think the better lesson is to abandon those who love you and then put a part-time bandaid on the problem as the "solution". Great lesson.

You know the problem with searching for the "brass ring"? YOU have to REACH OUT and grab it. It will not come to you. You have to extend out of your protective cocoon and change yourself to be able to have the brass ring. But you wish and wish and refuse to act.

Scriptural admonition in this area has profound application to both believers and non-believers. "Be ye DOERS of the word, not merely hearers". In short, get off your butt. Put your guilt and self-pity on hold for a day and understand that YOU don't have the answers and YOUR way has NOT WORKED. It's time, tentatively or not, to actually DO what others are telling you that you need to do.

If not, crawl back into your dark hole and let the fearful future you envision become your reality.

We are all sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God. What gives you the idea that you have a corner on guilt and pain and unforgiveable actions? Love, zachsdad, sacrifices self and DOES, whether we feel like it or not.

Good luck. The lifeline is there offered by one standing on the shore waiting hopefully that you will act. The current to hell is strong, will you reach out and take hold of the lifeline in trust, not knowing what the future on dry land may hold? Or will you be content to let a "do nothing attitude" carry you along to the garden spot of the underworld. The CHOICE is yours now. Soon that choice may be taken away forever.

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 06:23 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

WOW, gang you hit the nail on the head....I made a comment to my H that the only advice I think he would have taken willingly is if someone would have said that the marriage can't be saved- then he may think "Whew, I can't believe you actually think that, but your probably right", he said to me "But they're all saying marriage counselling etc.."..Well HELLO!!!???? If everyone you sought advice from is saying the same thing-does that not say something?? It doesn't, because he doesn't want that to be the solution.

I sent a no contact letter last night-which was the hardest things I have ever had to do, I feel like I have lost my best friend, my H, by work colleague, my partner and my true love all in one shot-DONE!! Now I have to start planning my future-with my son... and a possible D...I know that some day I will be ok, and I am sure even though he says he has no intention of being in a relationship, he will fall in love again, and that will (I feel) make a mockery of our whole break up...Because according to him, he is not with me because of guilt and fear doing it again...Well, starting fresh is not going to change that...

Any way, again thanks to all, there is a ton of wisdom on this sight and I am thankful that you are all there.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: zacharysmom ]</small>