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Joined: Mar 2003
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To those reading this thread, this is a story of how my marriage has developed after the latest revelations:

I found MB 6 months ago after finding out that my WH was having an affair and have been doing a very succesful Plan A for the entire 6 months. I have been showing my husband all my love and affection to the point that he said he fell in love with me again. But still could not decide who he wanted. He has been cake eating like crazy, to the point where he could not make a choice because he was in love with 2 women, me, his wife AND the OW. At one point I though I was in recovery as he broke off with the OW, but his depression and withdrawal symptoms got too much for him that he continued contact one month later. He tried to brek it off a second time. Same thing. I was at the point of ending my plan A and gradually moving into Plan B. The rest of the story continues as follows from the next paragraph to the absolute latest developments in the following threads. I have been using my own thread as a kind of diary of what has been happening to me...

July 23rd, I discovered a hotmail account which I never saw before and managed to get in because his secret question to his password was one I knew.

I found love letters from other women all the way back from 1999, the year we got married. The longest one was for almost two years with my sons music teacher. I wrote her a mail pretending to be him and asked how she was doing, she wrote a long mail back telling him how much she was missing him and still loving him.

He has been living a double life for FIVE YEARS. I am shocked, astounded, heartbroken, only a shell of myself. I feel like everything has been nothing but a lie. A BIG LIE! Our marriage has meant nothing to him. I have meant nothing to him. I could somehow accept the fact that he fell in love once, and it was a one time weakness, but for a whole marriage!?!

Have I really not been worth loving? Do I really not deserve any respect? I have been living my life allowing him to build his business to make his success for US. All the times I asked for time with him he was too busy with his business nad meetings and trips here and there to network etc.... BULL****. He misused the time, the trust and freedom I gave him and spent it on OWomen.

I suffered of not having time him, but chose to give him this space because I believed that it was the right thing to do for our family. His business and the time spent on it, I figured, would payoff at one point of time, so that we would be financially more independent and give us all more freedom to enjoy each other and spend that time I have been craving for.

I am crying so bad now I am so scared of the place I am at.

WHY? WHY? WHY?

Its a whole lot of bull**** that its because he was not getting his needs met, he did not even give me a chance. He made NO EFFORT. He CHOSE to find it elsewhere.

He says he was angry at me for my depression (for 2 yrs). I can understand that because it was really HARD. But why the hell did he not tell me that he was angry and it was more than he could take. It CANNOT be my responsibility if he did not tell me. He says that because he was angry at me he felt like he needed to punish me. He hated me for being ill.

Like I wanted to be depressed? Ill? I used my time and energy getting well and got well. But as soon as I was well he chose that it was time for payback, because it had been so tough.

What kind of person am I married to?

I am so devastated I can not think straight. I threw him out, but then agreed that every second week I would move out so he could be with the kids. I always manage to think what is best for the kids, even in times of panic, turmoil and devastation, they still need their mummy & daddy no matter what!

But then again WHY am I being so nice? This is my home (even though it is a rented one and I will never be able to afford it). I just don´t want my children to lose their daddy, so I keep on thinking what is best for them that they have a right to both of us.

I can´t write anymore. Sorry.

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Queen of a broken heart ]</small>

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Great big hugs to you, QUEEN,
presently, I don't know what to say to you, but you are in a safe and nurturing place with Marraige Builders.
My H lives somewhat double lives. And he couldn't undersatnd why I was depressed. Silly Man, wouldn't even begin to see his responcibility. He said he couldn't trust me because he couldn't trust my mental stability. duh!
Sweety, more hugs.
hang in there, patience, blah blah blah,
all so hard to hear right now, I can imagine.
2nd

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I am so sorry. I know it hurts like he!!. The thing is, you did your best with the information you had. He lied to you but you trusted and this is not stupidity, you are supposed to be able to trust your husband.

Now you try to deal with your emotions, then you try to heal. Keep the kids in mind, don't do what you may feel like doing you have to put their best interests first. That sucks too. It is all unfair.

You need a counsellor and time to take care of yourself. Tell the world you are having a breakdown, overworked, rundown, whatever and nurse yourself as much as is possible.

I am sorry you are in this rotten club.

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Heya, girl. Sounds like you're in a scary place. You need to deal with that. Get to a doctor or therapist and tell 'em your emotional state. ASK FOR an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medication. You need to get that under control; your emotional haywire will drive your H further away from you.

Which is not to say that it's not completely understandable! You should see me when I've lost it. I got anti-depressants when I realized that she wasn't going to stop the stuff that was driving me crazy. Not fair? Absolutely. But it's like .... like getting a flu shot when you're a hospital worker. You know you have to live with exposure to the germs. All you can do is protect yourself from getting the illness yourself. (Yes, the fog -is- catching!)

I also NEVER show it to my partner anymore. No crying, no anger, no snide remarks, no nothing. You CAN do that stuff. Probably you MUST do that stuff. But do it where he can't see it.

I get in the car and scream and pound the steering wheel. Other people walk or run. Others go out in the woods and scream till they lose their voices.

Get all the emotions out of your system. Then start THINKING.

And that's where you need a marriage coach. She (or he) can help with getting the emotions out in ways that keep your sanity, express them to your H constructively (the screaming/crying/you hate me/you loser bit is NOT constructive).

And she (or he) can help with thinking through what you DO. Your emotions don't help you here. They hinder you. That's why you get them out of the way and then listen to your marriage coach and ACT on what she says.

It doesn't make sense. It does work.

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Queen:

Speaking as one who has seen both sides (BS twice, WS once), I can understand what you are feeling and know--at least in my circumstance--what can lead to an affair.

First, realize there can be no recovery until your WH agrees to no contact ... absolutely none. Without that, there is no possibility of even beginning to heal the marriage. There are many posts here about how long a Plan A should last, or a Plan B; I can only say what has worked in my case (with Zorweb).

Second, he has hurt you as deeply as anyone can hurt another; but your marriage can recover. It is a long, hard road and takes total commitment. To aid in the process, I cannot emphasize the value of Harley's books enough. However, they are not only for you to read; he must read them and begin implementing them in his life. Anything short of that, and he will find reason enough to resume his previous conduct, because the loss to him will be outweighed by the benefit.

He needs to work with you every day. He is the one who must take the lead in meeting your emotional needs, to have the patience to deal with your questions (no matter how many times you may ask them), and to work tirelessly to regain the trust he has broken with you.

As for his "reasons"; he will find any excuse to justify what he has done. Any. As you work together, he must be willing to realize what he has done, and to change his behavior so that marital recovery can begin.

So, be forewarned: anything less than total commitment, and it shall not work. I have seen too many here keep extending a Plan A, to give their WS "another chance" ... and another, and another. Remember, Plan A, and definitely Plan B, is about YOU. It is your protection against further emotional encroachment.

Your H has a very narrow line to toe, and it is totally incumbent upon him to keep on that line.

Zorweb and I have been on the recovery path for quite some time. Fortunately for me, she gave me a second chance, and fortunately for us, we found Marriagebuilders at the exact moment we needed it.

We have implemented the MB concepts in our marrage. Occassionally, problems have arisen; she will have something trigger a feeling, and revert back to feeling devastated; she will feel that an emotional need is not being met fully and feel despondent ... it is easy to get lax in life. So we talk: radical honesty is fully a part of our lives now. And we actively work at overcoming these obstacles together. I will be honest: it has not been easy for me, and defintely not for her.

It would have been far easier, in many ways, for Zorweb--as the BS--to cut her emotional loss and end the marriage. And she would have been justified in doing so. But we have taken this path, and though difficult, it has been rewarding in many ways we never expected.

The sanctity and meaning of marriage has taken on new meaning; our relationship with one another has reached new heights. And we feel we are truly building something special.

But I digress, because I show you a place farther down the path; but I show it so that you will know it exists and that there are those of us here who have gotten there. So there is hope.

Now back to the first step. Your H must willing read, then implement, the things spelled out on this site. Anything short of full adoption, and you should be looking at Plan B. Just my opinion, of course. But it really deeply affects me when I see people here extending Plan A ad infinitum to their own emotional detriment.

I hope the best for you both; and he, too, can find support and help here as well. This is a forum in which you can both participate to find the mutual community support and insights that are available.

You have taken the first step: you found Marriagebuilders, you have (hopefully) read all the material here. The next step is now up to your H. He must also read the material here, give up contact totally, and begin to adopt the precepts set forth here. Anything short of that is half-stepping, and your journey to recovery will be greatly impeded, if not outright impossible.

The ball is in his court. You have to see where the return volley takes you. But you cannot be expected to wait forever for that return volley.

Godspeed,

STL

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Please post again here so that we know you are coming back and reading, ok?

I am STL’s wife, Zorweb (he is the one who posted just above). My response to you if very long as there was so much I wanted to bring up.

I am so sorry to hear what you have been going through. You do not deserve what your husband is doing to you. YOU ARE LOVABLE and deserved to be loved. No one deserves to be treated this way.

While you may feel that your husband has not loved you and that you mean nothing to him it is not true. He is married to you because you are the most important person to him. But he is so messed up that he has to hurt you to feel ok about himself. If you leave him he will be devastated. Let’s face it, if he was going to leave you he would have already one it. You have so much power here and don’t even know it. Your behavior is that of a girlfriend not a wife. A wife has a certain social and legal position and many many rights. You are not using any of them. As THE Queen of your home and your marriage, take possession of your place in your marriage and demand that you be treated as the Queen your are or start chopping off head (ok I know that’s a little bit radical but I hope you get the idea.) There is a non-love-busting way to do this. Do it softly, with class but firmly. This is your life, your marriage and your home.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been fighting for our marriage for almost 6 months now. Showing my husband all my love and affection to the point that he said he fell in love with me again. But still could not decide who he wanted.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have done one of the most important things a person can do in your situation… everything you can. Once you have done that and your husband does not respond then at least you have the peace of mind to know that you worked your butt off and were not remiss. You have given your husband more chances than any person should ever have.

What he has been doing is a form of severe emotional abuse. Actually, for the harm it has caused you, he may as well be beating you. Keep that image in mind as you wonder why you were depressed for all that time.

Your husband has bad a choice…. It is the choice to string you and the OW along for as long as he can. Let’s face it. He has the best of two worlds with at least two women to meet his needs. He will not end his affair(s) until someone else makes the move to leave him. So either you could leave him, or you could come down so hard as to force the end of his affair or at least force him to chose. I’m going to touch on this a little later… you need to do something really drastic to force his hand. The way things are going it seems that it does not really matter which way he goes but more importantly that you get peace in your life one way or the other.

Unfortunately I am no stranger to infidelity. My ex-H and I were together for 20 years, married for the last 14 of those. He had many affairs during that time. Like you I was not aware of them for a very long time. Or just saw things that were not right but stupidly trusted him. A few years after divorcing him I married my current husband. There were things there that I ignored too. In the 9th month of our marriage I discovered that he had been cheating with a few women through our engagement and the first part of our marriage.

There are things that the BS picks up on. I call them poltergeist. We know that something is wrong… there is something unseen going bump in the night (actually in our lives). But these things are not tangible, we cannot see them. We only feel them. So we start to think of ourselves as nuts. Like your husband, my previous husband pointed at my unhappiness and confusion as an excuse for his behavior. But like your situation, the affairs pre-dated by going down hill emotionally. Do you know what depression is? It is a person using their emotional energy to literally depress something. From the very start of your marriage, you have been using your emotional energy to depress your recognition of the poltergeist. To hide from the truth.

It seem to me that you need to stop using the energy to depress the feeling that you have. To stop holding it all in. You have every reason to be furious at your husband and the women he had cheated with. You need to acknowledge this for your own mental and emotional health. You need to tell him, ALL of the women you now know of, a counselor and anyone else you can use for a support system.

His telling you that your depression is what caused him to have problems and to have affairs is like an assailant telling their victim that they are making too much noise as they beat them. Remember that he was having affairs from almost day 1. Your depression was probably in a large part your reaction to his affairs, secretive behavior and not meeting your needs. HOW DARE HE try to blame his bad behavior on you!!! And that is exactly what you need to tell him.

He says that he has fallen back in love with you but has not ended his affair and changed his behavior? Why should he? There is a huge problem with Plan A… it’s good in the short run. But with 6 months of it he has learned a very important lesson… there is a new lifestyle in your house. He gets to do anything he pleases as long as he plays lip service to whatever you want. And you are going to meet all of his needs and not interfere too much with his freedom. He has two women vying for his attention and meeting his needs. No wonder the likes affair… I’d like to have one (or many) too. He is loves and pampered more then he could ever be in a monogamous marriage. You and the OW’en have taught this man that he is the center of the universe and deserves this enormous amount of love and attention. And that there are no real consequences for it. Well, the only consequence is that you and the OW give him grief from time to time about him not ending the affair/marriage but that he has learned to deal with by lying to the both of you. I can guarantee you that he is lying to her as much as he is lying to you. Now you have un-teach him this.

You are in a great position right now. You have shown him through what seems to be a very good plan A that you are a good wife and his love for you has grown. Now you have to let him know that there are consequences. That the only way he can have you is if he shows you the love and respect that he promised to give you when he married you. The love, respect and decency that is deserved by any person. But you are the one who has to do this. He will respect you only as much as you respect yourself. And through all of this you have not really respected yourself very much. A person can only be abused (or cheated on) as long as they allow it to happen. I can say this only because I had to learn the same hard lesson myself.

IMHO, it is almost time for Plan B. But if I were you, I’d give it, say one more week and go one week at a time deciding if it’s time for Plan B. The reason is I think you need to do one very serious Plan A blitz. Blitz is my term here, I’ll explain. You have laid the groundwork with a good Plan A. Now he has to know that beyond all doubt he is loosing you and very very quickly. If it does not work, then you have lost nothing that you have not already lost. You cannot continue to allow yourself to be abused like this… so draw a very hard line in the sand. Timing is very important here. And all of this has to be done with out vindictiveness, but with the understanding that the veil of secrecy has to be lifted from his secret life.

We talk about something here called the 180…. It’s a concept talked about in divorce busting. The idea of it is that if what you are doing is not working then do exactly the opposite. It will force a change in your relationship. You have been too ‘nice’, letting him and all of the OW’en get away with far too much. So the 180 I suggest is that you suddenly draw a very definite line in the sand. There are a bunch of things that I’d do in one day. You want to shock the living daylights out of your husband and get him to end his affair. If he does not in a very short period of time then you really do have no choice but Plan B. 6 months of Plan A? This has gone on for far too long.

As I see it there is nothing you can do to change your husband.. only he can do that. You only have control over your own choices and behavior. So as I see it you have 3 choices here: Like it and stay; hate it and stay; hate it and leave. If you decide to hate it and stay, but expect nothing to change… so shut up and up. So where does Plan A come into this all. Plan A is a very short-term way of trying to affect change … it’s the choice of “hate it, stay and try to fix it”. It has not worked. With that in mind I suggest that you let your H know that you are ending your marriage (Plan B and on to divorce) unless it all comes to a screeching hault right now!!!!!

1. As for your H’s secret email account. Save all of the emails to disk. Make a copy on CD if you can and get the copy of out your home to a trusted storage place (work, family member, friend, safe deposit box.) Also make a copy of all addressed/contact info in the address book.

This way it cannot ‘disappear’ and it is now yours to do with as you please. Some people will tell you this is harsh and you do not have this right. I strongly disagree. You H is messing so badly with your life, you have every right to protect yourself and your marriages. You may need these emails to do this.

Other things you could do is to change the secret question and password to the account so that your H cannot get back into it. Also, if there is another email address in the account info, change that too.

If you do not hijack the email account, you could delete all of the emails and all of the info in the address book. Now he cannot contact these women as easily.

2. Blow the cover on his affairs.. all of them. Not just the current one. One of the quickest ways to end an affair is to expose it to the light of day. Does his current OW’s H know about the affair? He certainly needs to.

MB encourages that the BS confront the OW to let her know that she is interfering with a marriage and to ask her to step out of the affair. Like me, you had not one OW but several to deal with. Yes, yes I know you think that all but one of the affairs is in the past. But from the sounds of the email you got back from the music teacher, there is still a lot festering in at least that one.

Having found all of these emails is really a good thing for you. Perhaps the good lord was looking out for you as He definitely helped you stumble on some this very valuable. Knowing the full extent of what has gone on is so important for you mental health.

Right now the OW feels very special. He ‘loves’ her and is willing to hurt you for her. I’ll bet that all of the OW feels so special. You can ruin the ‘special-ness’ of their relationship with him. It has a two-fold purpose.. it protects you; and let’s these women know how badly he is playing with them. They too have the right to know. Who better to tell them then you?

It was certainly the case with my H’s OW’en (He had simultaneous affairs with 10 women over a 2.5 year period.) But they felt special because they did not know that they were nothing more then one of many. Since I knew the truth I really did feel an obligation to tell every one of my H’s OW’en about what he was doing… that he had lied to them, that he was married and that they were one of 10 affairs.. that they were not his soul mate or his love. So I did my civic duty. I still believe it was the morally right thing to do. I also believe that doing this saved my marriage.

These women have hurt you terribly. You have the right to put the truth out there, to stand up for yourself. To lessen the likelihood of him continuing to have an affair with the current OW or go back to any of the others you can ruin the feeling they have of being ‘special’, of being his ‘soul mate’ and all that other garbage.

I contacted every one of my H’s OW’en. I told them that he was married, asked them to back out of their affairs, and (this is a BIG AND) I told them all about each other. This broke the illusion each of them had. They were no longer special. We also sent each of the OW’en a no contact letter. A couple of them contacted me after they received the no contact letter to complain that there was nothing personal it is… that it was well, like a form letter. My response was something like “well?”. All of us (my H, me and them) had to learn to deal with the facts of the situation.

If I were you I’d write a letter to the current OW. I think that a letter is better then in person because then there is a record of what you have said… it cannot be twisted to suit her needs. Plus yours should (IMHO) have much more info then the normal ‘get out of our lives’ letter would because of the multiple affairs. Here is a sample letter. It is meant only to get you started in writing your own. So change it as you see fit. If you want further help with it, then post yours here and we can all give you input.

_______
Dear sleazebag,

I am aware that you have been involved in a physical extramarital affair with my husband for over 2 years. Your involvement in this affair is interfering with our marriage. It has alienated my husband from me in so many ways. I am sure that you are aware of the damage and pain you are causing to both my child, your husband and me. I am asking you to please end your affair with my husband. I love him dearly. Months ago I told him that he was free to leave to be with you if that is his choice. He has told me that he loves me, he has begged me to stay with him and work on our marriage. But he has also told me that he is having a problem breaking off his affair with you. He is being a cake man, he has it made with two women meeting his needs and vying for his attention. So he finds it impossible to give up this hedonistic existence and have only one woman to meet his needs. Please care enough for him to let him go so that he can rebuild the marriage and family is so obviously does not want to give up. If he wanted to give it up, he would have walked a long time ago. I, like anyone else, can not force him to do anything.. Much less to stay where he does not want to be.

I also feel that I have an obligation to let you know that my husband has not only been lying to me. This may come as a surprise to you but he has been playing a very sick game with me, you and several other women. I discovered recently that my husband has been having affairs with several women for the entire time we have been married. Some of these affairs are on going.. over lapping with his affair with you. We are both be played for fools by him.

So that you know I am not making this up I have included the email address, phone numbers, names of these other women. I am also including copies of many of the emails I have found between my husband and these women.

Please be aware that I have allowed myself to be abused by my husband, you and the other women for too long. If my husband does not end all contact with you and the other women immediately then I will institute no contact with him. I cannot allow this ridiculous, abusive game to go on in my life one moment longer.

In addition, don’t you have a marriage that you need to be concerned about? What you and my H are doing is distorting tow marriages. Please allow us to work on ours even if you do not care about yours.

Also be aware that in order to end my complicity in your and my H’s sordid affair and in all of my H’s affair with all of the women he has cheated with over the last 5 years I have sent copy of this letter with all the attachments to your husband and all of the other women my H is involved with.

I as I stated earlier, I am expecting that you will end all contact with my husband immediately. I have sent a copy of this letter and all attachments to your husband. If the affair does not end immediately. I will seek support in this matter from all people who I feel will be of help for my son and I… my family, H’s family, your family, you employer, etc.

Please do not contact me or my husband further. Any contact from you will be construed as harassment and will result in my filing a criminal complaint against you.

You are of course free to contact all of his other mistresses to share notes and stories. I am sure that all of you have a lot in common.

Attached you will find:

--- copies of emails/cards/letters/photos/etc that are evidence of your affair with my husband.
--- # (some number) of emails from OW#1, OW#2 and so forth
--- Names and contact information for each of the OW.

Sincerely,
Goddess
____________

In the copy to her husband, include a P.S. or a note suggesting that he read the book “Surviving an Affair”.

Then I would make changes to the above letter for each of the OW in that email account and send all of the info to all of them. Make sure you also send a copy to all of the spouses of the married ones. I would also tell all of them that there will be no contact with you, your son or your husband. Sure they may contact your husband. But if you have his account you will know this and can answer them accordingly.

Now this may anger your husband. That is NOT a love buster. You are not required to keep his dirty secrets nor to put up with his affair. The OW’en may get angry but oh well…. Did they worry about your feelings any? Nope.

As for the music teacher and any other one who was a family friend.. I would be a little harsher. Does she work independently? Or does she work for the school system?

3. Install keystroke tracking software on your computer … www.iopus.com sells the one we use. You will be able to track all of his email and chat activity . Make sure you install it in stealth mode.

You are welcome to email me at zorweb@hotmail.com if you want to discuss any of this further.

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Queen:

Hope you are reading the forums and the material here on Marriage Builders, and wanted to give this a bump to the top.

Godspeed,
STL

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Thank you all. Sorry had to change my id name, since my WH managed to delete my password to MB from my mobile phone. Now I am Queen broken heart.

After finding out he has been cheating on me for 5 yrs I went to Plan B. Sorry, Zorweb & STL, was too angry to Blitz Plan A him. He is now living close to our home in a B&B place for the upcoming week (besides he is on a business trip to UK all week). Next week I will be living there, so he will be with the children at home. I do not want the children to suffer too much of this and this is why they keep their base, while my H and I will switch living arrangements every 2nd week.

I have done as Zorweb suggested and sent actually Zorwebs mail (with a few changes)to the OW and a copy to his mistress (my sons music teacher). This was yesterday. OW called me immediately and said she was sick and tired of this and that she thought our marriage was over when they started the affair. Both OW and music teacher called my H and raged at him, saying they did not want anything to do with this anymore.

While I was at the doctors my H picked up the kids from school and kindergarten. He then went to his parents with them and for the first time in half a year openned up to his father and told his side of the story, including all the sex experiment stuff. (see old mails under old id). When he brought the kids home he was raging at me and said that he already warned me that if I ever did anything like this i have lost him.

He still thinks I deserved all of this and that it was my fault. His ONLY mistake was that he did not tell me how he was feeling. ONLY mistake.

Went to see a lawyer today. She advised me to start the proceedings now. If there was to be any reconciliation that it would come later and that I had to protect myself financially. She said that when he was in the habit of having affairs through our entire marriage and still justifies it because of my illness/depression, then he is ill.

My MIL lived a double life for 5 yrs with ludomania (gambling addiction), they lost business, house, cars everything. My lawyer suggested that maybe this was something that he has inherited.

Went to see my doctor. She NEVER says anything to take sides, but she said to me; Queen, when your H said that he was in love with you and loved you and he still CHOSE to ask you what to do when his lover was flying in to our city & CHOSE to hurt me by staying the night away with her, then he also CHOSE her and not me.

My newly found therapist (got crisis help) said that my H needs a good shaking, but that I have to make it up with myself whether I will ever be able to get past the resentment that he was unfaithful to me when i was pregnant with the youngest one and even when we were going through our worst nightmare when the youngest one almost died.

I find it hard to be able to look in to the future without looking at the past. Because all the good memories I thought I had, will be shadowed by the fact that he was betraying me.

Any help with these thoughts would be appreciated

-queen-

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Oh and I have another question?

I did Plan B by asking him to move out without a Plan B letter. Do I need to make a Plan B letter? Anyone got any examples of a good Plan B letter. Is it essential that I write this letter or is it enough that I just do the 180 degrees?

Right now I see it as a combination Plan B/ 180 degrees. Why? Because we still have contact and need to keep contact because of the kids. There is absolutely NOONE close by that can help us negotiate seeing the kids. Thats why we live in and out of the house every 2nd week. We do have minimal contact, meaning a kind of Plan B. But more so a 180 degrees by me tying to stand strong and doing stuff to plan to put my life back together and be pleasant.

Does this make any sense? To do a kind of combination thing. But what about the letter?

- a confused queen-

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bump

I´m frozen to my chair and don´t know what to do next. Now I made alot of commotion with the strength of Zorweb.

Feel a bit insecure about whether OW really meant that she backed off, feel that she still might be there lingering, and she just got angry at my H about me interfering in her life.

Don´t know whether my resentment to all of this is going to be bigger than my will to get past this WITH my H.

Don´t know whether I am in Plan B or doing a 180, considering the circumstances.

Do I start with the proceedings, is that a shake up? But if I do I want to tell him that I am going to do it. Don´t want him to feel like he is at war with me, because then it will backfire on me and children. He will gt defensive and start scheming with his lawyer who owns a percentage of his company (ies).

-queen-

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Yes, a plan B letter is very good thing for someone doing Plan B because it states clearly where you stand on all this and what you want from your husband. You are not doing a real plan B. But if you want to send a letter to him telling him the circumstance under which you would take him back.. that makes sense.

In a Plan B you do not do a 180 because you have absolutely no contact with your husband. It will not work at all if you have contact… that’s not a plan B. What you might need to do is to cut off as much contact as you can and do things like Plan A and the 180 when you do see him.

Good the commotion should have rattled a few cages. Have you spoken to anyone like your father-in-law to give him your side of the story? Does the family know the full extent of his affairs, all of them.

As for if OW has really backed off. Only time will tell. You already know that she lies so you cannot depend on what she said. Now that you have done the letter you should have absolutely no contact with any of the OW’en. They are nothing to you.

[quote[ she just got angry at my H about me interfering in her life.[/quote]

I really hope you do not let this bother you. Oh gee she is upset. She has had an affair with your husband for a very long time … who interfered in whose life? Just realize that she is a pathetic user. Getter her upset is a good thing… it causes problems between your H and her. And I’m sure she was not happy to learn that she is not the only one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don´t know whether my resentment to all of this is going to be bigger than my will to get past this WITH my H.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what? It’s ok if your resentment is bigger than your will to get back. Not all marriages should be saved. Quiet honestly yours has such a tentative foundation since your husband has cheated since the beginning of your marriage that the chances of recovery are lower then most. You are doing what you can. But there is no one who would expect you to give your husband a second chance. If you choose to, it is out of pure goodness. You owe him nothing. You know what, in 2 years you will be either married or not married. I hope that if you stay married he as wised up and dumped the bad behavior. You can only do so much. This is a truth that you have to accept.

I do think that starting the proceedings is wise so that you can get support for you and the children. You have to protect your children. Just because you file does not mean you have to go through with it in the end. One of the most important things a WS has to learn is that their BS is not stupid and not a push over. By filing you will be setting boundaries and you will be telling him that you are serious about him ending the affairs and working on things. If you file, I suggest that be the time you give him the letter… telling him that while you have filed for your and the children’ s protection, you still want the marriage and are willing to stop the divorce if…. Then list what you need from him.

He and his attorney will scheme if they want to. You cannot control every thing so don’t even try. Just do what you need to do for you and your children. Then the rest of the world can own their reaction. IMHO filing would certainly be a 180 move… bet he does not believe you ever will.

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Thank you Zorweb for your response. Look forward to any other comments or responses.

I plan to start writing my Plan B letter to my H and I will then post it here to hear your comments on the letter. I think it is a good idea that I give him the letter and tell at the same time that I am filing to start divorce proceedings, but that if he can see that he can agree to my terms of recovery, those proceedings can be stopped.

I am afraid that he will feel that whatever I come up with he will feel like I am controlling him. He hates to be controlled. But I also see that that is something I cannot use for anything if I want to be in a happy marriage where I feel safe and secure.

I also think that I need him to understand that no matter what, divorce or no divorce, that we should go into marriage therapy now, so we can solve some of the issues that have brought us here and so that we can function as good, communicating parents for our children.

If all of this hurt and resentment is too much for me to carry on with a marriage, I do still hope that by resolving some of the issues we could begin to build the best of friendships.

I do love him still and care for him, but I see that a lot of the past issues are due to his personality and his unwillingness to dig deep inside of himself and do something about his own weaknesses.

For eg. This is a very very simple issue. He is always late. For meetings, parties, everything. it drives everybody around him crazy including myself and our children. It upsets people. He crosses other peoples boundaries, but always manages to save himself with his extreme positivity and winning personality. So they forget quickly that he has just crossed their boundaries. BUT. My WS has decided that being late is his personality. People have to accept it because this is how it is. If they cannot live with it, it is THEIR problem not his.

Do you see what I am up against? He cannot see the benefits of making an effort not to upset others. Because everyone else around him have accepted his attitude, even though it irritates the living hell out of them. Me, our families, friends, everyone, we plan around him. If we need to be somewhere we make secret plans and say to my WH that we need to be a place at six, when really we need to be there at seven, so we know that we can make it. He has gotten everyone to accept his lateness and we all shrug our shoulders and say, aah well that´s just "WH name"!

My WH has en EXTREME winning personality. He is unbelievably creative, happy, positive, fun loving. To the point where I actually thought he was 100% manic. But manic people can not function in society. He can. I wonder if there is a personality disorder that is just under manic, where one can still function in society. His negative attributes are that he always needs excitement, live in the fast lane, extreme money spender, explosive temper to the point of danger for people around him. The negative attributes create insecurity in every day life.

I´m just venting here, need a place to put my thoughts down.

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A new day and new soul searching...

O.K, I´m trying to pull a Plan B letter together, but am still very much in doubt whether that is the right thing to do.

I am also VERY unsure whether we would ever be able to have a healthy marriage, because I am really not convinced that my H has it in him to make changes. Maybe he does and has learnt from this and can see the wrongs from his behalf. But am I willing to wait and see, just to realize that he will never change.

My 6mth plan A has showed him I was the woman he always dreamed of. After finding out about a whole marriage of affairs it has been downhill for me. The betrayal in my perspective has grown to be almost unbearable. All my good memories are shadowed by the lies.

You see, I am at a turning point in my life, and I know one thing. Never again will I put myself in a situation where I am so dependant on another person. I have been living my life in the shadows of my husband. He has been the "star" of the show, demanding that his needs be met, have his freedom. I have given some but not all, because there was nothing coming the other way.

I do not know how this will end, but I do know that I want to be his friend. I will learn to forgive him as I feel sorry for the turmoil he has been going through.

I do not want to do a Plan B letter, so I have no contact with him. I love him, why should I not have contact him? We have three children we share together. I need to share my everyday experiences of of them with him, forever! If I make a Plan b and he does not come around, then we have broken that special sharing feeling forever. I want to keep that.

I do not want to do a 180 degrees in my weakest hours. At least not alone.

I am asking what the board thinks about the following.

My goal - to be his friend
Actions - to show him that no matter what I am his friend and he is mine. That we talk not of the bad of our marriage, what brought us here, at least not now, but how to begin to pull our lives together seperately.

WE need to find me a place to live with kids, because they are his children too. I need to find myself a new job, but will ask his help to read it through to hear what he thinks. WE need to jot down the numbers to see how we (especially I ) can provide a certain living standard for OUR children when I have them. It is for his interest to help me and the children.

Whatever issues he has unsolved with himself, I cannot help him with, besides agreeing to going to couple counselling in order to build a friendship - FOR OUR CHILDREN.

Like I said. If my goal now is to be a good parent WITH him, and a friend for life, is it not unnecessary with Plan B´s and 180´s and Plan A´s?

I have given this all I have got, but the latest incidents have made me realize how hopeless the situation is. My husband has lead a double life for years, and even in the midst of my Plan A, he said he was certain that he was meant to live with 2 women and not one. That would make him happy. But it will not make me happy. I want to be no.1 for my man and I want him to be no.1 for me always. I do not want to share.

I think my husband is living in a naive dreamworld and he does not want to let go of it. I hope to God that his attitude will not rub on to the children, that is why it is necessary for me to be his friend, to help him.

I do still love him dearly, but I just don´t know whether he will put in the effort. I am pretty sure he will not.

Comments anyone?

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Just wanted you to know that I read your last two posts. But I will not have time to answer in full until later today.

My short answer to why you would want to do Plan B and not see him is because you have to love yourself first. If you do not, then he will see that you are worth loving. If you allow him to continue this horrid treatment of you, he will continue it.

For all these years he has done this. Why would you expect him to suddenly realize what a wonderful wife you are and admit that he has been wrong and have almost a personality change.. to be a good, faithful husband? He has to hit bottom before that will happen. He has to know that he has lost you and has only one last chance to get you back.

Do you really want to live like this for the rest of your life? Or until the day he divorces you for one of is bimbos?

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I'm new here, and can't wait to get the help these wonderful people are giving. The small advice I can give is visit your doctor and get a mild antidepressent and something for the anxiety at night such as Clonazepam, it's mild and helps you get ot sleep and wake up without that sever panic feeling. If it wasn't for those I don't know what I may have done.

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SeentheLight and Zorweb...Your posts were so informative and moving. Such great advice and help you gave. You two must have a great marriage in the making now.

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Hi all,

Just dropping in on my own thread to see comments. Feel like I am moving through my pain of the latest events and finding balance again. I found an inner strength and part of it is letting go of the guilt. I know I have made mistakes in our marriage but nothing to feel guilty about my husbands choices.

His feelings to do what he did have probably felt very real to him, and I don´t believe he really made those choices just to hurt me, but to make himself feel better. He could have turned to me, but I don´t think he had the courage to do that. I can beat him up about it or forgive him for being so weak.

I choose to learn to forgive out of love for him and our children.

I don´t know where we are going with our marriage. Maybe we will end up divorced or maybe we can work things out. But whatever happens I know that it is going to be very different and that that in itself is going to be good.

I am not desperate for him to choose me anymore. I do still hope there is a way. I love him like crazy, more than ever. Does anyone understand that? Because the facade is broken and I can see him with his weaknesses and faults, just as well as his strengths and beauty. He will always have a very special place in my heart and I pray that his place in my heart can now begin to grow and not whither away.

I was not ready to give him my letter to him yet, but he accidently found it on the computer. I have now told him that when this month is up that if nothing has changed for him in committing to me, then I will start with the separation proceedings in order to find security in my everday life. That letter was meant for him to read by the end of the month, but now he has something to relate himself to until then.

He may even start the proceedings himself and if that really is his will, I cannot force him otherwise.

Its all up to him now. I am the sitting duck for 4 weeks. After 4 weeks if there is no changes, then I step in by calling my lawyer. Then I am still a sitting duck for a year until the divorce comes through. I told him that during that year he can stop the divorce whenever he wants to. But at the same time I will be making changes in my life so I can stand on my own two feet with the kids. Scary? Yes. Challenging? Yes

Nobody can tell me I did not do what it takes to try to save our marriage. I have and continue to do everything, with open arms until the day comes that the door closes.

Its one of my strong days today! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Thanks for watching...

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O.K, update for today.

I mailed my WS the following letter yesterday, as I felt I had to follow up on the fact that he accidently found my B letter.

Dear WS,

Just got off work, so I feel like writing to you.

I think I understand what you are saying. Your advice to no late mails for yourself, was a good one, also for me. I should have never picked up that phone or wrote those messages in a state of red, furious anger. Instead I should have waited and asked you what it was that you told your father, and whether you are certain he understood it right. My mistake and I am sorry. I
am just as weak, just as human as many other people in such a situation and blow my fuse. I will do whatever it takes to not do that and wait if I should feel like that, because I do understand that it is very destructive
and draining, it gives more bad than good. Mud throwing stopped. O.K?

To your question moving on with or without you, means picking up the things that I used to love to do that I have given up. Things that made me smile and happy and gave meaning to my life. Like diving, listening to live music, taking pictures, sitting at the beach watching the waves. Lots of small things that are not necessarily important to you but are important to me.
Some of those things might not even be so important any more, but I have to find out what things they are. I have neglected myself so bad the past years that it is terrible to acknowledge. But it is me that has neglected me, with those things. Not you. You are not to blame for my own neglect. I am. My neglect of myself gave less meaning to my life but also less meaning to our life together. Of course our wonderful, new found fulfilling sex life comes
to mind too, and I really miss that. It frustrates me terribly not to experience that. But I have made a decision and that is I will not be unfaithful to you whilst still married to you. That is my own decision and that obligates you to nothing. That part of me is yours/ours, because I love it and want to feel that desire -its one
thing that is really good. Do you understand that?

I hope for us that you do not give up on us completely. I have not given up, though I could find many reasons to do so. And yes, whirlwinds of emotions do push us further apart, especially the angry, ugly ones, because it is hard to forgive. I do not want that, I hope you do not want that either. It IS hard to forgive for both of us. Also my faith, like yours, has taken so
many downturns that it makes it harder to see a future together. But you know what WS, my love for you is more whole and more unconditional for
you than it ever has been. Can you understand that? Isn´t that hard to believe? Well, its true, because there is nothing hidden from me anymore. I
can see you more whole; weaknesses, strengths, everything.

I KNOW, deep in my heart, that you never did any of those thing really JUST to hurt me but you did those things because you were hurting yourself and
wanted to feel better; you were sad, you were angry, you were lonely, you were misunderstood, felt rejected, unattractive. I made you feel those
feelings and you could not bring yourself to tell me about them, because you feared I would just use them against you, not understand, or just plain not care. I am not saying these things to beg and plead with you, I am saying them because I acknowledge them just like I acknowledge the feelings I felt within myself in our marriage too. I am also saying that I think I understand and will not hold your own feelings against you, because they were real for you. Just like your feelings towards me now are real for you.

The letter I wrote to you, which you found on the computer, was one I was not ready to give to you. We had an agreement to use this month to think.
That agreement holds. No actions but thinking. My letter to you was not for you to read now. But now that you have read it, I will tell you the truth of how I have been feeling. I have felt that if after this month, you still do not know what you want with your life then I think it is best that we do start the separation procedure, with one years notice. Why? Because I need
to find a new everyday life, where I feel secure. The situation we are in now is not secure and I can´t go on living like that without it pulling me
down.

I know that you think I would be doing this because you think that I want´out. NO, I do NOT want out. I want to commit and work on things. I want to STAY married to you. The proceedings can stop before they even start, if you tell me you want to commit too and want to stay married to me. The proceedings can also stop in a months time or six months time. I am willing to put a stop to it at any point of time during it, providing you tell me that you want to work on us and all the "other women" are out of our marriage forever. Will you first want to commit after a divorce? Maybe, then we have to take it from there. I have not got the answers for me then, only for now.

YOU control that procedure, not me. I also want you to understand that if you think it is best for you to separate and divorce me, then I accept that fully. It will hurt like hell, it already does, but I can´t ask you to be somewhere you do not want to be. We will then have to come to terms with what that means for our children and how that will affect their lives, how we can both contribute to them being happy and feeling secure. We have been good parents for them up til now, we have had very few disagreements about
them up til now, and I trust that we continue to find the best solution for them. Not for us. For them. They need their mummy AND daddy, for the rest of their lives, and its a killer (already is), not to be there for them every single day of their lives, but that is something we have to live with and accept and just give the best we can offer together as parents.

WS, it may seem like I have control of whatever here. Bad news for you. I´m just having a day where I can see my true feelings for you and have the capacity and energy of sharing. I have not had that feeling to want to share after the latest findings, but I am slowly moving forward from the pain of it. From your mail below, I can see you don´t feel like sharing and have not got the energy for it and I can understand that. It is hard to share when you are hurting, in despair, confused, depressed, lost, whatever.

I would however like to share and let us try to even be there for each other while we try to find answers. Maybe timing is not right. Maybe it is easiest to do it in writing right now. But to sit down and talk and look each other in the eye would be better, if we could try not to hurt each other. I never ever want to hurt you consciously.

I´m reaching out a hand to you and you choose whether you take it. If you don´t thats o.k too.

Save my letters to you and read then again one day. I do the same with yours.

I´ll call the kids later...

Hugs Queen

So what happened afterwards? WH invited me home for burgers (its my week out of the house and I am missing the kids like crazy). Accepted invitation. My eldest son started school yesterday, so spent time looking at his new books, organizing his homework table and so forth. WH made burgers and we just hanged out, talking to kids, getting them ready for bed. When kids were in bed, I thought I was going to leave, but looked into my WS eyes and desired him so much that I lead him to bed, had SF with him and stayed the night.

This is really going well is it not? I do believe that I am doing the Blitz A, Zorweb was talking about with a 180 degrees. I´m sticking to my guns with the one month thinking and as I say in my letter the B-letter comes into effect after the end of this month.

There will be no shock treatment for my WH, he knows what is coming and he can start relating to it now if he does not commit.

Thanks fo watching again, and any comments welcome as always...

-queen-

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Queen,

If I had a problem, I would ask Zorweb for advice, so I know you are in good hands. Right now, it feels as though you need as many voices as possible to tell you that you are on the right track....so I wanted to chime in to say that I believe you are. When you reach the right state, there is a sense of power and acceptance....I hear that in your letter. It will ease the pain a bit you will find because there is strength in knowing that the path you are choosing is the right one...even if the destination is different than you hope. Perhaps finding the Plan B letter will turn out to be a good thing.....I think it could....I think it gives him a clear idea of what you are working towards and the reality of the consequences.

Good luck to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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Wow, what a GREAT letter. Keep up the good work!
But be prepared for a Plan B. I read somewhere that most situations need to move to Plan B. It gives the WS a chance to see what they would be missing. Your situation may need to go there just to firm the commitments you both are beginning to think about (changes in behavior).

One year for a D? Do you have to have a time schedule? Can you live with a separation for longer if it goes there? Indefinitely? You may not want him back right away...any other conditions you want to ask for if Plan B happens? Accountability? Fulfillment of ENs?

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