I left the HNHN book out (which I did not finish so I could start SAA) so she would find it and she did. She has called 3-4 times already today at work. She has laced into me for the all the cruel things I did and said it was not just the A. Yes I was cruel and I did not behave like the H I should have. I had just left living in my Mom's apt after I met my W. Going from one controlling woman to another was not what I was looking for. Therefore, I rebelled, and in the worst way.
So...she let me have an earful and still is (1 time during this posting): my A, roadrage, grabbing her wrist, my sex addiction, our arguments. I know I am suppose to be a doormat, and its difficult not LBing. How should I react/be on the phone, or when she does this tonight after the kids go to bed?

She then tells me that she is getting the house and that her atty and her therapist (my former) knows her atty and both feel sorry for her and can't believe she took so much sh** for so long. Problem here is they only hear her side of the story. When we did (2x) go to the same therapist together, she would refute? everything I said and constantly interrupt me. But I let her get all her words out nver contradicting her once (although I definitely could have).

Wiht tall the pain I am going through right now and the pain I have caused, I have one thing to say to anyone thinking of having an affair:

DON'T EVEN THINK OF HAVING ONE. STAY CLEAR AWAY FROM ANYONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX IF THERE IS EVEN A SLIGHT CHANCE OF UNITS BEING DEPOSITED IN THE LOVE BANK. IF YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER WON'T GO TO COUNSELLING, GO BY YOURSELF. DON'T HAVE AN AFFAIR.

While telling me all these things, she was angry, but when it came to the A itself, she broke down crying and I felt like a total loser. I don't know if I can save this M. I will try. I will be that doormat and fulfill the ENs she lets me.

I have to go back to work, and wait for her next call. She's still reading HNHN, so who knows what I am in store for when I get home.

TTSMM

<small>[ August 07, 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

Sounds like the 5 stages of grief. She is in the anger stage. This should pass. Give it time. I'm proud of you for no LBs.

nj,
Would you please tell me more about these stages so I can prepare myself better.
thanks,
ttsmm

Five Stages of Grief (as they pertain to death, or diagnosis thereof):

The first stage is denial

Upon hearing the diagnosis, the patient reacts with a shocked, "No, not me." According to Dr.Kubler-Ross, this is a healthy stage, and permits the patient and the family to develop other defenses.

Next comes anger or resentment

"Why me?" is the question asked now. "Why my child?" Blame, directed against the doctor, nurses and God often is a part of this stage. This outcry should be accepted, unjudged.

The third stage is bargaining

"Yes me, but-" "If you'll just give me five years, God, I'll . . ." This Dr. Kubler-Ross calls a period of temporary truce.

The fourth stage is depression

Now the person says, "Yes, me," with the courage to admit that it is happening; this acknowledgment brings depression. (Note: The family often goes through all the stages, along with the patient.)

Finally comes acceptance

A time of facing death calmly. This is often a difficult time for the family, since the patient tends to withdraw, to be silent.

TTSMM: What you need to do is consider this list in the context of an affair. In my case, there was very little to overcome, but even so I am still waffling around through anger, depression, and acceptance. I think the bargaining phase is when you find out and you're trying to keep your spouse at any cost. That's my personal take on it.

Although they tend to go in a certain order, be prepared for backsliding and repeats of certain phases. Also, remember that finding out your spouse has been unfaithful is a death of sorts: of innocence, of trust, etc.

Hope this helps.

One way to look at this is that in a way, discovery of A, is a form of death. Death of what you thougth was real. Now you have to redefine everything.

My understanding of the 5 stages of grief is that it is normal to go back and forth between the stages for a while.

ttsmm,

Glad to see that you are back in the house. It may help being there and communicating. Just try to be calm and not lose it. I am sure that will help. Just keep to plan A as best you can.

Sorry I am unable to add much but I sure hope things work out.

Just try and stay calm and think before you answer her.

Good luck.

Rho

Back in one of my other posts Encouragin my Wife to MB I asked how I could get my W to read any of the MB books and the website. Since I moved back in, less than 2 days ago, she has started going through my personal belongings. One of those belongings is HNHN. She has now been calling me and exploding about my notes, highlightings, and then bringing up many past events.

She also, is bringing up nonsensical things. For example: while I was out of the house, my cousin's D had a bday party which my W did not attend. She must have called my cousin though, because she came back at me saying I was flirting with my other cousin's GF. First off, the women she is mentioing to me was not at the party, they broke up. Second, she thinks anyone I talk to I am flirting with. I like to talk to people, men, women, children. My W thinks I am flirting.

With this women in question, a few years back, at one of my cousin's kids parties, this women and I threw a football around. I asked my W to throw it around, but she is not into sports. I didn't think anything of it (EN RC - I did not read any MB stuff at that time obviuosly). Also, when I had to change our S's diapers, this women went with me. No hanky panky, just talking as we changed his clothes. I can absolutely see this as a problem now, but back then, there was nothing to be jealous of anything, I wasn't doing anything.

So....she is now reading the HNHN, and it is not a good result.....for now?!?!?!?!?

To the stages of grief.
The problem right now is with her anger is that everything she is feeling is going to her atty. As such, because she is not thinking/acting rationally, a bigger D case is being built against me day by day. She kept a diary from when she first found the pic (mentioned in a previous post I believe) over 5 years ago. How do I deal with that later on? If it were just her and I and therapists, maybe I would feel I have a chance, but once an atty is involved, they document everything.

She has a very, very good atty too. He is a judge in three counties, comes from a reputiple family, etc. My atty knows her atty and told me things in confidence during the TRO. One of them being that he was going to drop my wife because he felt she is looney and because she didn't have any money. Now because my W sold her wedding and engagement rings, he takes the case.

Thanks for letting me vent. Better here, then at home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TTSMM

TTSMY, Do you still have an atty? Maybe he could ease your mind about if/how all of her "findings" affect the legal proceedings. Some of it might not make a difference at all, depending on the laws of your state. Also, there is a website (I believe it is MegaLaw.com) where you could look up the divorce statutes for your state and maybe ease your mind about a few things. If that web address doesn't work, you could look it up on Yahoo if you wanted. All of her ranting and raving doesn't necessarily mean she has a cut-and-dried case against you on every matter.
It sounds like she has been holding this anger in for years and it's all coming out at once. Maybe some of it will difuse and she will be able to be more calm and rational after a while. I hope so! Good luck!

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

Thank you Mebb...can't get to the computer...KIDS!

You can go back and forth thru the stages, but everyone goes thru the same ones. Hope you are having a good day and I wish you a great weekend. If she won't spend time with you, there is nothing better than a walk on the Jersey Shore to clear your head. OK, maybe a few Florida and California beaches, but nothing better than a long walk on a beach or a mountain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just venting.

Lousey weekend. On Friday, my boss (50 yr woman) calls my home # instead of my cell phone, because she was looking for me for a mtg. She then tells me to call my W to fix. When I called my W my boss took the phone and talked to her, about 10 minutes. My boss is very gregarious and my W thought she sounded drunk. Therefore, on Sat my W went off that I must now be having an A w/my boss. And probably w/the OW as well. I have rotten taste in women, except of course for her (my W). I felt the urge to defend myself and I did, but without AO, firm, but I still felt like I should have 'yesed her'.

On Sun, I take the kids to church and I asked my W if she would mind being home by 2:45 PM so I could go to the gym. My W returned at 1:45 PM. She said to me that she didn't know that the gym was open until 6pm. I told her I didn't know that either. Then she said, that it doesn't, it closes at 4pm. "Why are you lying? This isn't about me loving you, I don't. Why do you have to lie?" I told her I honestly got the time mixed up. So I went to the gym and then met them at the pool, like I promised. When I arrived at the pool, she didn't say a word to me except that she was leaving (as we had agreed earlier). I spent an hour and a half w/the kids.

That has been my life since the A, BAD LUCK. No matter what I do, my cell phone is in the wonrg cell when she calls me, my boss with her mistake, my telling her the wrong time, etc. It's as though the whole bleeping universe is telling me to give it up. THIS SUCKS!!!!!

When I got home, she was her cold self. She cooked dinner and sat down w/the kids. She left me some and I ate it after they were done. Should I sit down w/the family if she doesn't invite me? I feel like I have to ask permission for everything. I asked if I could take a shower in the master bathroom.

I went to the store to get something and yelled up to the stairs to say goodbye to our D. Then I kissed our S and as I was leaving, my W commented on why I never asked for our S when I was out of the house for 2+ months? I did, but I asked more for our D when I was permitted to call legally. My W is just picking things to pick a fight.

All weekend, she has been asking for money, she guessed wrong on her budget. When I gave her money on Friday, I offered more than she asked but she said she was fine. She has total problems when it comes to calculating funds, but she excellent at saving money. I gave her $60 more this weekend; and I am sure I will be giving her at least another $100 before end of this week. I really would have been fine giving her that up front. She is just doing everything possible to drive me crazy.

She went out last night to get diapers and I asked her if she would please pick up mouthwash for me. She comes back and hands me the change and says she is not obligated to pick up things for me at the store. So I went out again, and when I returned, all the lights were out in the house. I went down to the basement to straighten my area (she was upset on Sat saying I had promised to sleep in the basement, but she found me on the sofa every morning). I told her I have my stuff in the basment and I sleep on the sofa so I am available to the kids. "You're just trying to worm you way back into the bedroom."

While cleaning up the basment I was looking through our photo chest. At the top was a plastic bag with our wedding photo in it. It was hanging on the wall in our bedroom just the day before. This hit me real hard, and I started crying. How can I ever think there is any hope, when she does these things? Most of the stories I have read on this forum are about the BS wanting the WS to stop the A and is willing to work on the M. I have not come across a posting where the WS has stopped the A and is tyring to resolve the M when the BS doesn't want the M to work anymore.

I called this morning to let her know I ordered our S's mattress. Not even a thankyou. She said she doesn't know who I am trying to impress, but it won't work on her after all the damage I have done to her ego, etc. I told her I understand and she said that she didn't think I did, that is why she has re-remind me.

While finishing this posting, she calls about the mattress. She tells that the boards for our S's bed are in the bedroom on the "guest" side where my clothes used to be. I did not react on the phone, and again, I feel like s**t.

Thanks for letting me vent..again.
TTSMM

bump....are you both in counc.?

TTSMM - Sorry you are feeling so sad and that you had such a bad weekend.
At first I wanted to say that your wife's behavior seems somewhat childish - example: She won't even pick up mouthwash for you at the store with money YOU gave her - but maybe she is working out her anger the best way she knows how. I think OT MB'ers would say for you to just keep being loving, no matter how she acts. She could be testing you to see if you are sincere about changing. I can see how it will take a lot of time and testing for her to trust you again (I say that with compassion since I am also a WS).
Also just wanted you to know I'm still thinking about you and your family, praying and hoping for the best!

ttsmm:

This is all normal.

Recognize that your W is still very hurt, and very angry. This will go on for however long she lets it. Because it is her choice 2 be angry, it's not something you can make her feel.

This will be a long process. Months of this kind of thing, followed probably by years of recovery. You can't work around this period. You have 2 live through it.

Hm... about the books. I would be surprised if she could find much in HNHN 2 use as "ammunition" in an argument against you, but she might. Let her read it, though. SAA would be a good one for a FWS 2 leave laying around for the BS 2 read, 2. It's straight 2 the point, with very succinct descriptions of how 2 recover your M.

But how about some surprises? Greg Baer's "The Truth About Relationships" won't give you or her anything 2 be angry about, in fact it'll make you think 2ice about exploding at each other ever again. Another "great" is Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now". This is about living in the NOW. Because the past and fu2re exist only in our memories and imaginations. We can do a lot of harm 2 ourselves with negative thinking, running of scenarios over and over, replaying past mistakes over and over. Without really addressing what we've experienced in a thoughtful, compassionate way, we can't learn anything from the past. We can only trash the present with it. And worrying about the fu2ure is worse, in many ways. Why fret over something that hasn't happened?

Take care, hunker down, and realize this will be a slow, painful process. But at the end of it, you'll be a much better person for the journey, and your M may be better as well.

-ol' 2long

We were both going to the same counselor, who after our first couple session, refused to see us together again. He tells me I have grown and am willing to change, but that she isn't. He tells me not to tell her what he tells me. But my W tells me everything about what he says to her. That he knows I am messed up, etc. I don't know wether to believe my W or my C. He was good for me but not for my M. My W likes him and refused to ever change C's. I am now with a new C, but I am feeling that most (if not ALL) C's and attys will tell you what you want to here. This is what I feel is going on with my W's C and atty. She is no longer listening to or taking the advice of family, friends, etc.
Yesterday, during one of our mildly heated discussions, she said she doesn't love me anymore and she is too young (42) to not have sex any more (as are you). I told her that I am not looking for any one else. I love her and that I am going to continue to try and resolve the M until the judge signs the D papers.

I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. I am losing hope because, from what she tells me, everyone agrees with her and is against me. I can't win. A win is saving my M.

I quit my Men's team yesterday. These men know my whole life story. Most of them have said D her. Others, don't argue anymore. But all of them get angry because I don't agree with them and follow their advice. I ask for advice/suggestions and then I decide what I am going to do. But with these men, their egos get bent if a man doesn't follow their words; similar to my W (hmmm).

I told my W yesterday that I wish she would have spoken to me throughout the M with compassion, etc. (trying to explain the LB's) but to no avail. She still feels and told me so that because I did the things I did (5 years ago) that that is me. It doesn't matter. Because I was interested in sexual perversions (as she puts it) I would never be satisfied with her alone. Bu**sh**! During that time, Iwas destructive to myself and to the M. I didn't care and I wanted to end the M. Now after begin in C for a few years, being on my Men's team, reading, reading, reading I know what I want. I want my W and I want a loving, strong M with her. I am trying to apply all the MB principles. And, she doesn't want me anymore. How can I go against that?

TTSMM ???

ttsmm:

You are doing as much as you can to save your M. I'm glad you are still with us and didn't do anything foolish before. I know how so frustrating it is when you spouse has chosen not to help you both recover. Maybe for now think about what you can do for yourself. Spoil yourself a little. I know it's hard to enjoy something when your heart's not in it but try anyways. A teacher in highschool once said to us: "Fake enthusiasm. It just might rub off and make you smile inspite of yourself."

We're all here for you.

Well, I blew it again. I took of work early so my W could keep a dental appt and not have to worry about the kids. On the way home she calls me and complains about how she feels i have been spoiling the kids (outings, toys, lunch, etc.). When she was working she would spend her little bit of money on the kids, so why not me. In fact when she brouhgt it up last time (3-4 wks ago) I stopped. Yesterday, I wanted to play with my S so I bought a whiffle ball set. She got bent out of shape over this.

When I got home, the fur rose very quickly. Everything leads back to the A. It doesn't matter the subject. We were screaming at eachother, and she called me a sex addict - I AM NOT!!!!! And I called her, selfish, jerk, etc. Real loving words, huh <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Because I was doing those things five years ago, and haven't since, doesn't make me a SA. I am tired of having to defend myself on this. This is the sore point (maybe) with her. How can she trust me if I am a SA? Well, in the past she kept bringing it up over and over again, until to shut her up I said I was. If I can say I don't want/need/crave going to a strip club, or looking at mags, or vis, etc., then I am not a SA. ITs not a matter of controlling it, I choose to not have it control me. She's read a book and her atty and C agree (from what she tells me) that "Once an addict, always an addict".

She's wants honesty, that is her major EN. In the past, my honesty resulted in her LBing me with AO, SD, and etc. (before I knew what LBing was). So to defend myself against the hurt from her, I withdrew the truth and sometimes outright lied. This is what helped me create a double life and permit the A.

Again, I am battling her, her atty, her C, family, etc. Although I never heard them say these things about me. Funny huh <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Everytime I argue with her, I am destroying any chance of R. I wish we would have a session with a C together (a referee so to speak) so we would see eachother's viewpoint. It tears me up each and every hour/minute/second that I cannot repair my M.

I am seeing a friend now (neighbor) and we will be meeting each week for a Bible study together. Maybe GOD can help me save my M. But, when one (my W) is not religious or spiritual, how much hope can I have? IF IT BE GOD'S WILL, MY M WILL BE SAVED.

TTSMM

ttsmm,

Just checking in to see how you are going. Hope things are going well.

Rho

Rho/Others,
It has been a quiet weekend +. That's because we didn't talk to eachother. I have been trying to be there for her, DS, is about all I can offer or she will accept right now.
I just got off the phone because her father is ill in the hosp. He has skin cancer or melonoma, noone is telling. Anyway, she wnats ot know why I am so interested in his health? He's my father-in-law. She doesn't buy it. She thinks I am trying to make her feel guilty because I lost my parents both ove rhte last year and she didn't care one bit.
She then went off on me about my addcition, sickness, etc, and how she is a wonderful woman. How I am selfish and that she is not based on her actions. I listened and did not reply. She once again told me that she is divorcing me and why can't can't I get that through my thick head?
I was able to ake everything she dished out and then she dropped another on me, matter of factly. She asked me to take a day off from work in Sept to watch the kids. She has appt with the Superior Court to discuss how you talk to your kids about divorce. This cut me like a knife and I started crying, unbeknowst to her.

I DONT'T WANT A DIVORCE! and I am now powerless to do anything about it. I just can't see for myself that there might still be hope. Why am I so blind to this? Why can't I cope with this?

I am going for a walk around the block to clear my head so I can go back to work.

I know that until the D papers are signed, anything is possible. Anyone out there think there is still hope?

TTSMM

Dear TTSMM:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{TTSMM}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Just thought you could use one right now.

As TooMuchCoffeeMan says, "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings". Your W doesn't sing does she?

Hang in there...we're pulling for you.

SAB,
Yeah, she sings, but her quality is *****. She is singing everyday about what I did to her. Today she calls me 4 times to say how she is going to get the house for the kids and herself, calls me sick, why shuld she forgive, etc. I was the doormat and only cut her off when I was entering my job.

I thought things were ok the last few days; no arguements, LBing, but no conversation either. Any converstion was 'if she was asking for money' or 'needed something'. Not everytime, but a few times, the words "I appreciate that..." would be uttered from her mouth. I guess I am fulfilling Fin'l Support?

After getting those phone calls, I have a pit in my stomach. I am on Zoloft (anti-D) for the last 3 days, but I am not suppose to see any effects until 2-3 weeks. Also, this morning, she asked if I could have some of my friends throw out the dresser in our bedroom (this is my old dresser). More stomach aches.

TTSMM