Editted Title: Suicide Stopped - Thanks MB Forum Posters

All,
Editted 8/5/03 @ 3:11 PM EDT
Original Subject - Suicide - I Have a Bottle of Pills - Help

FOR THOSE JUST READING THIS POST FOR THE FIRST TIME - I AM NO LONGER CONTEMPLATING THANKS TO SUPPORTIVE REPLIES, WHICH FOLLOW, FROM THE MB FORUM MEMBERS.
FOR NEW READERS OF THIS POST, YOUR ADVICE STILL APPRECIATED, SO PLEASE READ ON FOR STORY.

Major LBing tonight. It even involved our kids.

I have a bottle of Zoloft in front of me with 20 pills in it and I am staring at it. The pain of ****ing up my M is too much. I don't see a way out.

She told me she filed for the D. She sold her wedding ring to retain her atty. I see no hope of saving anything. After all the pain I have caused her and my F and myself, I'm sitting here wanting to end it all. The world will be better off without me.

TTSMM <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

[ August 05, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]

Look Trying, you have got to calm down and thing about things... you may not realize this but I know I have and I bet a lot of others on these boards as well have thought about how easy it would be to just end it all. I know how bad it hurts and I know how helpless you feel. But killing yourself is not the answer.

Your marriage is not over yet... you have got to read the MB concepts and if you already have then read them again. I don't know your whole story but I don't have to to know the pain and anquish you feel.

You need to give yourself and your wife some time to calm down. If it will help you then post what you are feeling here and let us all help you get through it.

I have to warn you that 20 zolofts is not enough to end it all. You will only end up making yourself sick and ending up in the suicide ward of the hospital, so please take 1 to help you calm down and put the rest away.

It will get better, I promise!!! Even though it seems totally hopeless right now. Please post again and let me know you are OK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

[ July 31, 2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: One_Day_At_A_Time ]

1day,
I am the WS in this. I have three threads besides this one.

I just came back from dropping off money with my W. That's all I was going to do. She came to the door and I went in. I my grabbed the keys (she changed the locks when she had me removed on a bogus TRO) and told her I was moving back in. I asked her to sist down and let's talk. I cried my eyes out and was very remorseful over my A (5 years ago). She doesn't care. I got down om knees asking/pleading/whatever and she was sorry to see me on my knees.
We tried talking agian and she kept interupting. How can be radically honest when all she does is interupt me?

TTSMM

Your W needs time. Right now, she is angry, very angry.

All you can keep doing is tell her you will do anything to make it work.

Write her a letter, ask her, what can you do to convince her you are serious, that you love her, you know you made a huge mistake. Ask her, what will it take for her to be willing to try and make the marriage work.

How many kids do you have?

What are there ages?

Don't do anything foolish

I know you are the WS as I saw it in your sig. I also know the pain your affair caused your wife because I not only have been there but still am.

I envy your wife because at least you are remorseful for what you have done, my husband is not and continues to live in fogland.

Now knowing how hurt and angry your wife is feeling, I also know that busting your way in the house and grabbing the keys and telling her you are moving back in is the worst possible thing you could do.

Not that I am any expert in saving marriages, cause I sure haven't been able to save my own, but I do know some of what doesn't work and what you did only made things worse.

I am hoping some other seasoned MB members will come soon to help you but until then for what its worth... this is my advice.

Do not contact her for at least a few days. You both need time to calm down. Use this time to read everything you can find on how to implement a good Plan A.

I learned this lesson the hard way, but you can't make anyone change but yourself. And you can't change the way anyone feels but you can change how you react to those feelings.

Take some time to work on you right now. Remember she is still very angry and hurt and trying to force her to do anything is only going to push her farther away.

Things will get better, but you have got to have patience and be willing to use all the MB concepts to help you become a better person and to try to convince your wife that you can be the husband she deserves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I involved our kids tonight by letting our D know that mommy did not care to save the M anymore, that she was breaking up the F. My W thought that was cruel and it was, AND she has been telling things to our D ("I think you and I will be happier with another man and another daddy in our lives."), this to a seven year old.

Every time she would interupt I saw red. Finally I went upstairs to our bedroom looking for her personal papers and I told her that, she finally grabbed her box, and I reached for it. BIG MISTAKE. She called 911 and the police arrived.

I have blown this M to smithereens. Involed our children in enormous pain. Treated the woman I love with disregard (during the A). I have tried to mend things, but she doesn't care.

With all the pain I have caused, I feel I cannot continue on this way, or any way.

I am checking about the Zoloft overdose, so...... I go out and mix it with another drug.

I JUST WANT THE PAIN TO STOP. I WANT TO RID MYSELF OF THE PAIN AND THESE THOUGHTS

HELP! HELP! HELP! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

[ January 31, 2005, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]

I hope that Hope4future sees this thread!!!!

Seriously!!! Both her parents committed suicide, and the legacy they leave behind is terrible for the "survivors."

Please don't do this!!!

Know that we care about you and your family, even the WS as well as the BS. It may seem hopeless right now, but it IS NOT!!!

Stay with us, okay???

♥2long

[ July 31, 2003, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]

suew/hope,
We have two beautiful children who were crying their eyes out because they thought mommy was going to have me arrested tonight. MORE PAIN I HAVE CAUSED. Their names and ages are Noelle, 7-1/2 and Stefan, 3.

My W hates me writing letters, she feels it means I have no backbone. I feel she rather the face to face or over the phone so she can interupt anytime she feels and get her abusive point across.

Trying... read what I just posted. Do you want to die or do you want to save your marriage?

killing yourself will not solve anything. Do you want your daughter to grow up knowing her father killed himself the night he and mommy had a big fight?

I think a better plan would be to show your daughter and your wife that you are a good man. A man who made a terrible mistake but who is willing to do whatever it takes to make things better.

You need to let your wife go for now. Write her a letter as Sue suggested and tell her how sorry you are that you let your frustrations get out of hand. Tell her that you just love her so much and that you are so sorry for all the pain you caused you both. Then let her have some time to think about things.

Yeah, call 1-800-suicide right now.

I involved our kids tonight by letting our D know that mommy did not care to save the M anymore, that she was breaking up the F. My W thought that was cruel and it was, AND she has been telling things to our D ("I think you and I will be happier with another man and another daddy in our lives."), this to a seven year old.
You both messed up telling them that stuff. You leave the kids out of it, even if she doesn’t.

I feel I cannot continue on this way, or any way.
So you really don’t care about your kids, cause this would hurt them far worse than anything you have done.

I JUST WANT THE PAIN TO STOP. I WANT TO RID MYSELF OF THE PAIN AND THESE THOUGHTS
Stop and take a deep breath (or 100:)). It’s not gonna get better by making it worse.

Take a step back on relax. Don’t try to fix everything in one day.

2long,
I am the WS. The affair was 5 years ago and she suspected. It only lasted 3-4 months. I confessed back in 2001 (a short while after I saw the 2nd plane hit the towers from my office window in NJ).
At one point she wanted to work on it, sort of. Then got into an EA and changed everything. We had an srguemtn on xmas and I walked away and she called thepolice and filed a DV complaint. this past may another arguemtn and she caled the police and got a tro filed against meon a bogus dv. i have been out of hte house ever since. she sadi i grabbe d=her wrist in may and bruised them she has pix. then ointhe witness stand at the tro hearing she said i grabbed her srists that day in may and lied. the judge saw through it and vacatged theorder. i wnet home later that evening and she changed the locks and wne ti tried tio get in sdhe calle dhte police and they saied that if i touch the door they would arrest me.

So i have been out since may4th.

this has been a rough year and i haven't ....
i lost my dad aug 28, 2002, my uncle in feb 2003, my mom on mar 21 (1 day before her 72nd bday), my M is over and I turn 40 on sat.
THISIS NOT HOW I WantE MYLIFE TO BE.

I'm quite the newbie here, but this is scary stuff and I feel like I must say something. Perhaps the moderaters of this forum could trace the IP address of TTSMM and contact his ISP and send someone out to ensure TTSMM is not going to do anything to harm himself.

I am very worried about him.

[ January 31, 2005, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]

I'M not TRYING TO FIX IT ALL in one day. i have been trying fo rthe past 20 months.

this past week i cry when i get in the car and go to my friend's house wher ei am staying. I cry when i here music. i am jusrt falling aprt.

my mom passed away in march. i had to clean up her apartment of all her stuff, rec'd little help, my brother in CAL. I foudna small bag thsat contained what was in my mom's pockets when she was admittd tothe hosp. i haven't had a chance to grieve for my mom or dad or....
my w had arguemnet swith me on both days of both funerals. she didn't attend either one. she chased me down ionthe baemnet when i tried to get aeway from her.

Trying,

Don't do this to Noelle and Stefan. If you commit suicide you are hurting them more. Things look bad now.

Lets look at this from the worst case it could be. Your W divorces you, she meets someone else. You are still their DADDY, you will have visitation, you cannot be replaced. If you DIE, you will not be there for Noelle to tell you about her first crush, date, prom, graduation, driving.

How about Stefan, who will help him learn to ride a bike, throw ball with, there is his first car, girls, dates, prom, graduation. Even if you divorce, you will still be part of their lives, and they will want to share it with you.

They cannot if you are not there.

Your W may calm down. Give her time, then approach her. If she gets upset, let her. Calmy tell her you understand her anger. Reassure her, you are remorseful.

Are you in counseling? If not, get into in NOW.

Call you local crisis line.

Stay with us. Do not leave. We want to hear how it is going, the good and the bad. Even in the worst case scenario, it will get better.

Trying,

It has been 20 months, but you just recently found out about MB. Give it a try. A real try.

If she is not willing to listen, back off. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink it.

When she is not receptive to listening to you, back off and say okay. You dont' want to hear me. Do not be angry about this.

Get into counseling. NOW. Suggest to your W that the kids need counseling too. After all, this is not easy for them too. They are not too young.

i'm in counseling now, just ogo t a new one. he's i don;t know...

w ewere in counseling toghether two years ago and c]=she kept interuprtitng anfd being arguemtnsative and the counselor sid he didnp;t want ous to be in the asmae room tighether and woudl counsel us separetly. hes has soiad that i have grown and she hasn't. i really don't trust vcounsleors any mor. i believe they say whatever they need to to retain a client. he was telling mme things about her problems and thetn when heer and i woudl get into an arguemtn she would would tell me how he was on her side and knew how screwed up i was. same with atty's. same with alot of people, neoghboprs, etc... many people tell you what they think you wnat ot here, they are very quick to take your side and then with the other person alone, take theior side.
like her F. they told her the l;ast year that she should give me a chance because hse saw the change in me, and i was trying. then after the tro they won't even tak to me and said it's over get it. this is froima family that doesn't give a damn about anyone in the F, now they are by her side.,

she tells me tonight that i should hav tried harder to get our=t of my job (he OW is still ther - she came back after leveing for fivce months). she thinks i am still sleeping with her. with the econmy how it si, it's been inpossible to find a job with the same income. we will lose the hosue anywya. i keep completely away from her (OW) andtoday she handed me a phone numbre from my boss, aftwerwards i told her i didn;pt want to have anything to do with her, i didn't care who handed hre the number, she could get it to me thourgh somenone else. i told that becasue of wht we diid my M is over and that i don;t ../\

i have been doing so much reading ove tr hte past few weeks./ months. i am almost finsihed with SAA, i have hnhn, i finshed reading ht book og=f gensis (bible) took 9 weeks.

i just feel nothing i do is working.

i have been on this site for almost 2 months and have dome tons of reading here as well as posting myself.

I TAKE 100% RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY HAVING THE AFFAIR. I TAKE 50% RESPONSIBLITY FOR THE STATE OF THE MARRIAGE THAT PROVIDED ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SCREW UP LIKE THIS.

She says she can't have a camera on me while I am at work. well accoring to SAA, something about being in constatn communcaiton, i'm willing ot do that, call every hour, etc. she doesn't wnat that. when i tried to find the section in book takling about tat is when she kept interupting.

[ January 31, 2005, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]

tonith she asked me why i didn't try to get back into th house before. i had thought about getting a lock smith which many poeple (MB, freinds, F, etc.) all agreed. instaed i cxhopse a 180 qnd know she asks me why i din't try.

DAMNED IF I DO,DANMED IF DON'T

I have not had a decent nite's sleep in weeks. i fall asleep around 12-2 in the mornig anfd get up for 2 bat work by 7:30. i have lat everyday this week. last sat i told my wife i wasn't going to see th e kids beacuse i had to work in the evening andshe calls oin sat AM and wakes me out of bed. i couldn' get back to sleep.

I NEED SLEEP. I WANT HELP. I WANT THIS PAIN TO GO AWAY.

part of plan was to get back in th house, so we could start communicating again. i had just finished about honesty in saa. she knows about the A, but not about things around it. i want 2 b radicaaly honest with her but she knows nothing about LBs and she creates the atmosphere for dishionesty. that is why iswas easy 4 me to have an A, because when evr i ws honest about my feelings or wnats, she woudl argue w/me and do multiple lb's

hanora,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Are you drinking? Make a deal with yourself, if you are going to off yourself - do it stone cold sober, no booze within 72 hours.
<hr /></blockquote>that's pretty funny. it actually brought/is bringing a smile to my face.

===================
this is a sad state of affairs, no pun intended.
when i search the internet on how to commit suiceid there are ove 2100 sites compared 2 just 700 for how 2 save ur marriage

its 1oclock here in nj.

hanora's line has sobered me up if u will.

i'm going 2 bed, ihave thepills on my pc, but i am just going 2 bed, w/o thetaking them.

maybe thins will b better in the morning.

if i feel the urge 2 try anything i will post bak immediately

thanks for all your help, i'm tired now and i'm going to sleep.

ttsmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Goodnight, and try to sleep a full night.

Things always look different in the morning.

Please, Please post or call a crisis number when things look bleak.

No one wants to see you do anything foolish.

TTSM,

Sleep in the hands of God. I send my prayers for a better tommorow.

I already did something foolish, which I will never be forgiven for. I had an A against the woman I promised to love and protect. She will never forgive me. I can't forgive myself.

I ha few hours of sleep tonight and woke up freezing (it's summer in NJ). I sent an email to men's team asking for help. I think I can make it through the night but, the pills are still on my PC and the voices are still going through my head.

There is no way to talk to her. She always feels she is right and her words are more important than anyone else's. Then she brings uo that evryine else is on her side. without getting both of us togethre w/the people who are saying these things i feel she is probably right that I am a screw up. I don't believe I am a sex addict, abusive husband, pathetic human being; and she when says it and that others feel that way as well, I can't but believe it.

I am hangikng on for tonight, but the pain is unbearable.

ttsmm

ttsmm,

Hope you got some sleep. Hope you can find someone to talk to. You need to speak to a counselor. Just fight it for the sake of you children.

Rho

My BIL committed suicide 2 yrs ago. He lived with us for a while.

The result:
My husband became a WS months after the suicide of his brother."Started questioning his worth to society"
His father has become a recluse.
Oldest brother who always was a social drinker is now an alcoholic.
Niece who qualified as a psychologist do not want to go into practise - Trying to find herself
Wives: All dealing with the aftermath of the suicide and trying no fighting to keep their families together.
How many lives were affected: 10
How many families were destroyed: 3

His final note "He knew that the families were strong and that they will be able to deal with it"

Where are we all at after 2yrs:
Broken, shattered and trying to pick up the pieces.

thankyou all,
i'm trying to ick up the pieces of my shattered m & life right now.

where i am staying, i let my friend take the pills. another friend saw my email and was on the phone with me for an hour. i am seeking psychatric help today, once i get to work

i still have pains in my head, chest, stomach and heart. i want the pains to stop. i feel i am a good person, but why have i been given so much to handle in less than a year.

when does the pain stop? when does this nitemare stop? i can't take this pain anymore.

ttsmm

i'm on my way to work right now.

i will try to post more later.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
ttsmm

TTSmm-

It sounds to me that you may also be a BS. Is she having an A? How did her EA end?

For me, it was driving into a river. I was obsessed with driving into the cold murky waters and allowing the cold to take my pain away. Guess what, I got through those thoughts, and so will you.

My advice to you sir...drive straight to your local hospital. Tell them of your thoughts. You will be admitted for a minimum of 24 hours, but they will take you seriously and give you a "safe" place to feel your pain.

You can't abandon those kids, just like I couldn't abandon mine. You are clinically depressed and zoloft isn't cutting it. Time for prozac and a good psychiatrist.

Do you have an EAP through your job? You need to clean you up first before you can deal with W.

I've been there, others here have been there. We've survived. You will too. You have to take a leap of faith though and do some of what I suggested.

TTSMM,

I can understand the depth of your pain, I've been there. But suicide will only hurt your children more. They need you.

Please call someone for help. This is not a good thing.

Zorweb,

i am at work and feeling sortof ok. i am not doing anything rash for now. i have an appt w/my therapist later today. he wanted to see if i could make it through the work day. i have ot call him at noon and let him know where i am at.

between mb and my men's team i rec'd a lot of support ove rhte last 12 hrs. i sent an email out to my mne's team at 4:0 am and one of them was up and called me at 4:40 am. he convincd me to not do anything last night and to call my therapist. which i have odne.

i did not promise anything other than that for now.

i am hurting and i want the hurt to stop.

i rec'd nine phone calls this morning at work from my men's team, being very concerned and supportive. i am not thinking clearly right now having had 3-4 hours of sleep a night and last nite even less.

i cannot see anything coming from my M besdies a D. she doesn't want to talk w/o lbing all over theplace. i tried to keep my cool, i don't deserve to be treated this way, but she thinks otherwise.

she said she doesn't care that the grabbing the wrists was five years ago, it represents who i am , what i am. that is bs. i have made tremendous strides in how i am and she tosses it aside and when she does, i do. i beleive how can i have changed so dramically? is this really me or is this a facade, an maks to win her back?

i really had 20 pills near my bed last nite and i feel like i have been using everyone around me for pity. but i have cried real tears with the words and support everyone has been gioving me.

the pain of what i did is just too much for me. too much to go through in one year. i am problably repeating myself...
aug 28, 2002 dad passed away
feb 2003 close uncle passed away
mar 21 2003 mom passed away (1 day before her 72nd bday)
may 4 2003 taken out of our house
may 30 2003 stefan's 3rd bday, missed it
june 26 2003 our 10th wedding anniversary, missed it
my marriage is destroyed
tomoorrow, aug 2 2003 i will be 40 with a ruined life. a life that i destroyed and i have no one to blame but me. why would i want ot inflict the people i kno wwith another 40 years of this?

i am still here and i will see my dr tonite

ttsmm

I am truly sorry to hear of your situation TTSVM. I do have to tip my hat off to you for realizing what it is you have done and taking steps to fix them. My WW isn't even at that point.

It sounds like your WS is having a hard time forgiving you just as I had a hard time forgiving and forgetting my WW's A. Hopefully in due time she will be able to. I know I have been able to forgive her but the forgetting is the hardest.

Has your W read any of the MB stuff? It is great stuff and has given me an understanding of everything.

I know how the thoughts of suicide can creep in. But that is the the exact opposite of what you want to do. Rebuild your life so your wife will want to be apart of it with your children. My hope for the future is this will make me a better person and I can't wait to be at that point of happiness when I can look back at all of this and know I had the strength to move on and become a better person. Your children will love you for it. And please don't use them as a tool to inflict pain and try to get what you want. They need love and comfort.

You can do it. Do not give up hope. You did it once and this time around you have the experience of the first time around to your advantage.

Best of luck! My prayers are with you.

Remember your children. Would this be fair to them? Let them know if you can how much they mean to you. A child's hug can do wonderous things when we're depressed. I like the hospital option. It's good to surround yourself with as many people as possible. Physical contact is essential to reassure you that people care.

We do. We really do.

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[TTSMM]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

TTSMM:

Time 2 2rn this all around.

Take your being out of the house as an oppor2nity 2 reflect on who you really are, who you really want 2 be, and what your integtrity means 2 you.

Stop worrying about what your W is saying, doing, thinking, telling people... You're in an infinite negative feedback loop with the arguments, the resentment, the anger, and the only way 2 stop it is 2 stop it. Change the subject. Do something that takes your mind of your worries.

Remember these points:

*Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person 2 die.

*When you are expressing your anger via angry outbursts at the people you purport 2 love, you are wrong. Angry outbursts are counterproductive. They will accomplish nothing. They don't even make you feel good for more than a few seconds, do they? So, the only way 2 stop the poison from overcoming you is 2 just stop. It's not wrong 2 feel anger, it's just wrong 2 express it through attacking others - even if you believe they "deserve it."

*you are a good person. You are a thoughtful person. You are an intelligent person. ...there are your starting points. Work on bolstering those truths about you. Cease worrying about what kind of "picture" your W is painting of you 2 others. It's incorrect. But her picture of you won't change until you change how the world sees you. You want 2 foster a confident, truly happy, compassionate and empathic new man. This might seem like "putting up a facade" at first, but you want 2 know the truth? You've been wearing a "mask" your whole life - we all have - and unfor2nately it almost always takes some kind of trauma - like an affair, a death, the breakup of our families - 2 wake us up 2 this fact.

You can do this.
-2long

all,
i made a snap decision from a suggestions from a coworker. i am going oout to san deigo to be with my f 4 my bday. i leave out of jfk at 6pm

i cancelled my appt w/my therpist but will be in touch w/him from cal.

i will keep all posted & go online ou there.

ttsmm

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR SUPPOR AND LOVE

PLEASE, PLEASE don't even think of taking your life. I know your pain .... but BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU THIS ... every day the pain will ease a little ... the terrible darkness will get a little lighter. You ask me, "How on earth could I even know how you are feeling?" Well I can only say that I was on the other end and I was the betrayed spouse only five months ago. My world crumbled. I felt as though I couldn't go on. The thought of taking my life didn't enter my mind. No matter how bad you hurt at this moment, taking your life will accomplish nothing but hurt others, and yes, you are loved by people that would miss you terribly. Ending your life would rob you of a future ... that could possiblly be better than what you had in the past. I don't know why you had an affair ... that is no concern of mine but you deserve to go on with your life and build a new one either with your wife or make a GOOD new beginning. Be strong for yourself, work each day to recover. I found much help here at Marriage Builders, as well as help from two very close friends who stuck by me. Even if you don't feel confortable discussing this with a friend (as some men don't), then stay with us at MB and all of us will get you throuh this. We are all praying for you.

Trying,

I don't agree with cancelling your appt. Have fun in Cal. I hope the change of sceneary helps.

It is not the answer. The pain does go away. I know the pain, I felt the pain. I asked god to take me, many times, I wished I would die. I also knew that my dying would hurt my children more than me divorcing their father. I am the BS, the pain is horrible.

You are not going to like what i am bout to say. I think at this point, you need to stop worrying about your M, and concentrate on yourself. Heal yourself.

I know you want your M to work. If you do not pull yourself together, you cannot even try to work on your M.

As far as your W, at this point, she is not reasonable, she is still hurting, angry, bitter. You will not be able to reason with her until she deals with this. As a BS, I held onto alot of anger and bitternes. Until I let it go, I carried that anger with me. I never realized I was that way until I let it go. I had a way of coming out into other aspect of my life.

Right now, you need to work on you. Find a way to deal with the pain in a healthy way until it gets better.

SOD,
My thoughts go backand forth.Deep down Ilovelifeandmy w & kids. on the surface and quite a few layers below, the pain is too much that Ihavecausedothers & myself. but,4 now at least, i am ok.

swh,
i am rescheuling my appton my return (perhaps tues). as 4 cal,it was/is nice to be w/f rite now. it was difficult getting here though,more drama. ileftwork 3 hrs + beforemy flight. we had a torrentialdownpour and while i was on the verranzzano bridge, NYC,a car stopped in fonrt of me and my brakes didn't brake. no one washurt,and i thanked godandleftit in his hands wether I was meant to goto cal.
i had dinner w/my b, sil and nephew last nite in the gaslamp quarter and it was nice and peaceful admist allthat has been going on w/me. i going to the beach in a few and catch some sun.

All,
after the mess on thursday evening, i do have akey to the house. i would liketo go in and stay in the basement until the d,or try to repair it whileiam there. i want to goback so i can be the kids (1), stop waisting so much $$$ (2), and (3) repiar the m. i do know i need to fix myselfas well.

one last note fornow. i am considering going down to fla forthe ms weekend. anyone going down from nj/ny area, i want to drive and figure somewouldlikecompany. in light of the problems/issues around my r i would only ride down w/a couple or just men. 4 myself i consider this part ofthe rule of protection.

ttsmm

Trying,
Regarding moving back home to 1. be with kids,2. save $$ and 3. repair the marriage: Have you not been listening to others on MB and to your wife? Being with your kids right now seems to involve them in fights between you and your wife. Not good!! Also, you haven't been mentally stable (suicidal thoughts with a plan), and they and you don't need to deal with that right now. Get yourself stable before you try and work on anything. Save Money? Going to court on TROs can be costly, as can a divorce if you keep pressuring your wife. Work on repairing the marriage? How?? Your wife has make it clear over and over that she doesn't want to be around you right now. So you override her feelings and accomplish what?? Reality is that just because you "have seen the light" and want forgiveness and reconciliation, it's not all about you!! Your wife does not "owe" you forgiveness and reconciliation just because you repented and want it. IMO the affair was also all about you. (As it is with all WS as far as I'm concerned.)It's about time you starting respecting your wife and children's needs! Committing suicide would devestate your kids. Statistics are consistent about that. Grow up and start cleaning up your own act by following through on mental health treatment. Start showing respect for the feelings of your wife and children. That may well get you a much more positive response and put you in a better position for rebuilding a relationship.

As for the inquiry as to your sobriety "bringing a smile to your face", I,too, question this as a possibility. Your typing and responses have progressively deteriorated since your initial posting. If it's not drugs or alcohol, then it certainly shows a decay in mental status. Get help. Don't make "suicide" an additional consequence to your wife and children of your affair. They've had to deal with enough as it is.

[ August 02, 2003, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: lilymarie ]

lillymarie,
I appreciate you taking the time to read and reply tomy thread. While I am upset over many of your comments, I do appreciate them.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> As for the inquiry as to your sobriety "bringing a smile to your face", I,too, question this as a possibility. Your typing and responses have progressively deteriorated since your initial posting. If it's not drugs or alcohol, then it certainly shows a decay in mental status. Get help. Don't make "suicide" an additional consequence to your wife and children of your affair. They've had to deal with enough as it is. <hr /></blockquote>First off, my initial posting was during the time I was contemplating the pills. I wanted to get my message out as quickly as I could, and it did not matter about the spelling, etc. Later, my replies were sent like wise, so that I was communcating what was going on for me at the time.
My chuckling at the sobriety? comment was meant that if I am going to kill myself why would I care if I was drunk or not. And you can question my comment about the smile, but do me a favor, ASK ME A QUESTION, DON'T ASSUME YOU KNOW WHAT I AM THINKING. This is what my W has done to me through out our R & M and it does nothing to resolve any communication.

My continued posting/typing errors are because I am using my brother's PC and many of thekeys stick. I don't feel like re-typing every few words. For this post I am being extra careful of my writing and spelling and it is annoying.

I don't want to type in all your quotes from your reply, because that would be too much for now. You should read some of my other threads then you would get a fuller understanding of my situation.

I take 100% responsibility for my A. I take 50% responsibility for the state of my M prior to the A. I take no responsibility of my W's EA (PA?).

I have started respecting my W's and children's need. On this night, I was trying to get into the house. She has no right to lock me out of the house. She had an EA herself, and I am still not 100% sure it went PA or if it is over. She says it is, but...? She strung me along for the last year saying she wanted to work on it and then changing her mind and then having a TRO against for bu**sh** reasons. Yes, I did grab her wrists (5 years ago), after the A ended. That does not give her the right to have a TRO against me because we had an arguement and she saw an "opportunity" to get the D going. If she wanted a D, she should have started filing shortly after I confessed to her suspicions about my A. Not play me so she could have a house for herself and the kids. The kids want a stable family not a house. She confided with women in our neighborhood, just after we moved in, then she was going to D me after our 10th.

If I seem angry in this posting, I am. I know the work I need to do. I have been working on myself for the past 2 years, and she saw results. I walked away from her when she wanted to start an argument, and she would chase me. I guess if she wants to argue at 2:00 AM I should just get dressed and leave the house?

I am on a much needed vacation right now, and when I return I will get with my therapist.

I have more to say,but I am going to the pool right now.

TTSMM

Trying, Bless your heart - I hope being with your family is a calming, healing time. Going to see them was a step toward helping yourself, even if you broke an appt with your therapist to do it. I wish you had a counselor you trusted more. If you don't like the one you have, could you get another one? We all need to be wise consumers when choosing our healthcare professionals! It sounded like you might have been having a major panic attack on 7/31 when you began this thread (waking up freezing cold) - new meds might really help!
Your getting a chuckle out of the "Don't kill yourself when you're drunk" idea reminded me of an article I read when I was depressed that was written by a psychologist. She said not to kill yourself when you're depressed - it's too big of a decision to make when you're not in a rational mood! That gave me a smile, but it helped because I knew it was true. Hang in there. Your life doesn't have to be ruined. Things might not turn out like you think or like you want, but God can take us even at our worst and change our lives for the better. Take deep breaths and pray. When we're in trouble, God isn't chasing us - He's waiting for us with forgiveness and restoration. It could be a very long road, but please don't give up hope!

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You and your wife are really communicating. It is the beginning, not the end. So the kids know, big deal, my father had an affair or more, I still love him and he helped me when my H had his affair.

You are also probably suffering from post traumatic stress disorder from what happened in the city Sept 11. You are dealing with a lot, but you need to pull yourself up and deal with it. It will get better. As long as there is life there is hope. She is reacting to you. This will pass. It is time for you to Plan A for yourself. She will notice if you keep at it. Trust has to be rebuilt. You did the right thing by bringing it out in the open. It is going to be OK. Your marriage can be better. I understand you wanting the company of family right now. Did you talk to your doc about the zoloft. I don't think the zoloft is working. My heart goes out to you. Please, your children need you. We care about you-Jersey Girl <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Just registered today, after reading so much that I can identify with. To the person thinking of suicide, you have had a lot of painful things to cope with, one following another, which does not give a chance to heal emotionally in between.You need to give yourself credit for acknowledging pain you may have caused others, and for having the courage, inner strength and love to be honest. Mistakes we make in life have a chance of being remedied or worked through. Suicide is final. Suicide is not the answer, although the level of pain makes it seem one. You have children who love you, and to whom you are important. They will need you in their lives as they grow older. Please, for your own sake and their's, get help!

I want to thank all of you for your supportive words and helping me when I was at the edge. Some words were not what I needed to hear, most were. I don't believe you berate someone when they are the edge of a cliff.

I have many of what was said deep inside of me. Though I was feeling this way on Friday morning on the surface and a few layers below, deep down I know what is right. I have always been a very emotional man (unfortunately) and I was so distraught over how I had just messed up at home, that I could not see the last layer where there is hope, and love and promise of a new beginning. This is why I want/need to goto counseling. If I ever feel this way again, I want to know that I can get myself out and not be that close to calling it quits.

To answer a few things. I forget who, mentioned that they were sorry I borke my appt w/my therapist to be with my family. By being with my F, I wasa able to access that last layer deep inside and see hope, etc. Would my therapist been able to help me? Perhaps, but, then I would have spent this weekend by myself as my friends (where I am currently living) were away. The thought of being alone,with these thoughts in head were too frightening.

Right now, I am getting ready for bed, as I told my brother at dinner, reality is creeping back in. I am starting to feel a bit depressed and anxious about going home, nothing suicidal, just down.

Throughout this mini vacation, I seen a lot of beautiful women and loving couples. My desire for SF is strong and I know I will NOT do anything to jeopardize hopeful recovery in that aspect. I just miss it. As for the loving couples; I hope and pray that someday that will be my W and I again. I feel sad because that is what I want in my life.

As for my therapist, he is new. The one I have been seeing for the past two years is good, but, he wasn't a good marraige counselor. Also, he toldme things that he felt about my W from her sessions. true or not? Over the past two years I have found many professionals, from therapists to lawyers, tell me what I want to hear (or to my W what she wants to hear) and are more than willing to badmouth or agree with me on how my W is. The only professional I have found to shoot straight from the hip is my priest.

I am rabbling now, so I will stop here.

I fly back tomorrow evening and arrive in NYC at 6:45 AM (taking the redeye). From there I go to work, where I will call my therapist and reschedule. Then in the evening I have my men's team meeting. After which I will return to my friend's house. Before next week, I will move back into our house and stay in the basement (starting a full PLAN A). This is where I will need MB's help. I still find it difficult to do a PLAN A, if she is no longer having her EA. BUT, I am willing to take assistance from you folks on working that out.

Thanks again for your love and support.
TTSMM

Yes, the beauty is that today is another day...that you and your wife have started on the road to recovery. I am happy you have a priest..catholic? Me too. That helps soooo much. Is your wife catholic? If she is this is even better. Forgiveness is at the root of being catholic. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

Anyway, glad you are feeling better. I think it is great that you are starting Plan A. It is also good that you went to be with family. Therapists are great, but family is even better.

Ok, now this won't happen over night, but keep at it. It will be great when she realizes that you really do love her and want to make a better life for your family. As a BS I can tell you she is hurting beyond belief, I can also tell you that she can move beyond this to a deeper relationship with you. I've said it before, now you can have the tested relationship that is better in a way because it will be stronger.

Moving back in is great. Do not be frustrated. Many WSs want to jump right back to where they were before the A. You can't, never. That said, it is still OK, but she is 3 yrs behind you in recovery.

I am excited for you because I have a feeling that this relaionship with your wife will be better than ever. She needs a little time to get over the hurt.

I wish you a great day.-Jersey Girl

PS-not a good idea to mention that there are so many beautiful women out there, nice to know but don't say anything about that to her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Trying, I'm so glad your family has been supportive and helpful to you. It's wonderful to read that you are feeling a little better. Your thoughts are obviously clearer - you've been able to develop a plan for when you get back to NYC! I'm proud of you that you got through such a rough time and that you are hanging in there! You will be in my thoughts and prayers. God bless.

Hi Trying,

I'm glad to hear that this break helped you tremendously. Sounds like you have a very supportive family.

Has your W agreed to your moving into the basement? I am asking because I don't want to assume that it was mutually agreed upon or that it was something you decided to do. I kept looking back to see if I missed something to clarify this.

I hope I read correctly that you and your W are starting to communicate a little better.

I hope you get some rest on the flight home, so you are not too tired.

I wish you the best of luck in everything.

nj/rose/sue,
Here's the deal.

I am moving into the basement of our house this week. Has she agreed? She asked when I was coming back since I have the key.</li>

Are we communicating? I guess you could call it that.</li>

She called me today to say she needed money. I told her I would drop by before going to work. This will make me late for work, BUT, I feel it is satisfying one of her EN's. Another big EN for her is Conversation. She talked alot on the phone about how difficult it is with Stefan not being potty trained, and pouring water on a man's head at the pool (I guess this Domestic Support as well), and just general venting. I felt I was there for her today, and might have gained some points (two ;-). So, if I can check my ego at the door and be a good listener, I can add more points.
One quick note: to show she hasn't given up on a D, she said she wants to go back to work, but she doesn't think she will ever be able to afford daycare for Stefan. I did not jump in saying I would pay for it, but ofcourse I will/would. Let me support one EN at a time.

My biggest problem isgoing to be not to LB, particularly, ANGRY OUTBURSTS. That is my downfall.

I am asking foryou MBers out there (as wellas my men's team)tokeepme in check with that.

Thanks again to all.
TTSMM

Good Job Trying. Keep meeting those EN for her. Come here and complain to us. She may be explosive with anger, she has to get it out of her system. Don't LB. Camly restate what she says to you, back to her and say I am sorry I hurt you, I can understand you feeling that way (if it applys).

She wants you to understand how hurt she is, and if you can take it in and respond to this hurt you will be halfway there. Remember, she found out way after the affair, but it is still fairly fresh. She is letting you come home, this is a huge thing. She is going to let you meet some of her needs, more love units in the bank. You are doing great. There may be some set backs, but just go foward. Call her a lot and tell her where you are and what you are doing. Many of us keep wondering what our WSs are doing.

Welcome home and have a great day. Remember, you and your wife are really starting a new relationship. The marriage can be stronger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I was suppose to go straight to work from the airport, but my W called yesterday and said she needed money. So, I went to the house and gave her some $ as well as souveniers for the kids. When I left, I told her I would call her later because I had a men's meeting tonight. She wanted to know why I was going to call her? I said because I was coming back into the house on either Wed or Thu. When I left, she looked upset.

While on my way to work she called me and let me know how upset she was. I won't go through all of her comments, just a few.

Everyone I talk to about the horrible things you did, agrees with me that you are an evil H.
Your men's team probably doesn't know half of what you have done.
I'm still divorcing you. You are going to confuse the kids by moving back in.
You are a born manipulator. I always had to 'yes' you to death.</li>

I had to do a lot of counting, to myself, to not blow up (LB).
I don't know what to say to her when she starts venting, or if she asks me questions like; "You agree that you are a manipulator?" Because, if I answer 'yes' to let her get her feelings out, she hits me with my agreement at a later "conversation". If I say 'no', she lists how she "knows" that I am. Problem is in the past, she thought I was a sex addict, and after many months of badgering, I finally sucumbed and admitted that I was. It's a 50-50 split with friends, family, professsionals on whether or not I am. The behavior is not good, but it is not addictive.

Anyway, I need coaching on how to talk to her. I am almost finished with SAA and I am finding it hard to have faith that I can save my M if only one is 'living' the MB principles and not LBing. In the stories of Jon and Sue, and Lee and Kevin, both spouses were willing to try. With my M, only 1 (me) is willing to try. I feel if I don't get back into the house this week, she will serve me w/D papers and then all hope is lost.

From the postings I have read, most WS are in a fog and don't want ot resolve the M. It is the BS who is struggling to get it to work. With me it is the opposite and feel lost much of the time.

Another ?. Do I call her and let her know where I am when I am not leaving work on time, etc. if she says she is D'ing me? How do I deal with her venting over and over again everytime I try to fulfiol an EN?

Back to Work!
ttsmm

Oops! Forgot something.

When she brings up about how she could never forgive me, it is th eusual, "Why should I?", etc.

Today, it was something newer?
I was to forgive you, "it would be beneath me." "A women would have to be total walkover, or a doormat."

That's all for now.
ttsmm

Trying, Mostly I'm replying to your latest post just to offer support, but I'm not sure what to give as advice on how to win back your wife. I hope there is someone out there reading these posts who has had a similar experience and has some ideas. At least you have a support system of family, friends, and counselors. I haven't read all of your threads, but the "sex addiction" part is confusing to me, if you only had one A, and it was 5 years ago. I don't mean to be nosy, and you don't owe me any explanations, I'm just thinking that you are the only one who really knows all that has happened in your M and what your past mistakes were. Anything like a sexual addiction would definitely take a counselor to help you with. You're doing a good job with using all your resources to get help. Your wife is obviously very angry right now. Maybe if she sees that you are really trying to make changes, she will finally begin to give you a break. It sounds like she doesn't want to be pushed into anything, and the more you try, the farther away she pulls back. It might take her a long time to give you another chance, but even if she decides to get a D, you will have the benefit of having worked on yourself and will be a better person, with the experience of a hard lesson learned. Take care of yourself, do the best you can. Not to sound preachy, but if you give yourself and your problems to God, you will be o.k. no matter what happens. He loves us more than we know and knows what's best for us, even when we don't understand what's going on. I truly believe that with God, all things are possible, but things won't necessarily happen on our timetable. I'll continue to pray for you and your wife (and your kids). I hope everything turns out well!

[ August 05, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]

Trying,

I am at a loss right now.

My honest opinion based upon the information you provided, I think she is confused.

One - I think family, friends, etc are telling her that she should leave.

two - She is communicating with you. Do you best to keep it positive.

Did you ask her why she thinks you are a sex addict? Did you tell her the only reason you agreed with her, was because you thought she would stop telling you that you are?

I guess, I don't understand, what/why she thinks you are a sex addict.

In the stories of Jon and Sue, and Lee and Kevin, both spouses were willing to try.
Did we read the same book? Sue was NOT even remotely interested in saving the marriage until later in the affair.

Eventually Sue came around to doing the MB principles but most of the time she was beyond the ***** from hell.

Hope you are having a good day!

Chris,
Yes. We did read the same book. Sue went into counselling with Jon. All be it, much later on and after the A.
Unless I missed something, which is possible, she kept both Jon and Greg around while she figured things out for herself, having her cake and eating it too. Then when Greg dumped her, she went back to Jon, and wanted to make him wrong on everything, and eventually, reluctantly, went into counselling.

In my situ, there is no A going on for either of us. And she doesn't want to go into counselling, she wants a D (has said that her atty is filing.)

Sue, (&Rose),

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Did you ask her why she thinks you are a sex addict? Did you tell her the only reason you agreed with her, was because you thought she would stop telling you that you are?
<hr /></blockquote>Because prior/during the A I was going to strip clubs (went 4-5 times in those 5 years), online chats, had an xxx pic from another woman from an online chat, watched pornos, and had magazines. Since shortly after the A ended 5 years ago, NO online chats, and NO strip clubs. She use to watch those movies w/me and in counselling last year (or 2 years ago) she said she only watched because she felt she had to do, to stay with me. Since I have been out of the house, 3 months, NO mags (after the first 2 weeks), NO videos, occassional websites (this has even curtailed).

I did not want to be controlled and the way my W's telling me not to do these things came across as controlling at the time. Why couldn't she say, "I don't want you to go to strip clubs because I won't feel special to you anymore.", or something along those lines. Instead, "I don't want you to go to strip clubs." During the aftermath of the A, while she suspectd but it wasn't confirmed, she went to various women support group meetings. Basically, they kept telling her that of course he (me) is an sex addict, and he's controlling, and he's this, and that. So with this info, she hounded me constantly until I borke down and to stop the badgering, agreed that I was. Now because of that agreement, she can hold that over my head for ever. "You're a sex addcit. I can't trust you."

???
Not to be angry right now, BUT...
Why is it women can take back the things they say/do, but men never can't?

All,
Just to update. I am moving back into the house tonight; all my things should be in by the weekend. She is upset over this, but I don't see how I can work at the M from outside. At least if she has filed, I will have some time w/the kids until the D is finalized.
I will be staying in the basement and doing Plan A, and working my best to not LB. And I will be the DOORMAT for the next 6-9 months (haven't decided a definite end date yet).

Keep my and my family in your paryers.
TTSMM

I moved back in yesterday, to the basement. She was a bit surprised, thought it was going to be Thursday. Her mood was null. She told me about her father's illness and how she was preparing for the worst. Her and her brother didn't even know he was this sick. She said that she wishes he had told her, and not kept quiet about it. She said that if she ever got breast cancer, she would let everyone know; not to get pity, but to inform everyone. "I shoot straight from the hip.", she said, "I wish others in my life one would do that." I felt this was not only aimed at her dad, but me as well. I don't think she always shoots from the hip.
She also said that I could help by taking her and our D out to Long Island because she gets nervous when she has to drive on unfamiliar roads, etc. Also, for me to watch our S because she doesn't want him to be at the funeral.

VENTING - I did not confront her on this as I would have in the past. When my Dad and Mom died over the past year, she did want our D to attend because it might affect her, but less than 4 months later, its OK for our D to attend her father's funeral and not our S.
Thanks for letting me vent.

I saw my therapist earlier. Still trying to figure if I want to find a different therapist. It's hard for me to see if I don't like a therapist because they are not good for me, or if I am resisting what they are telling me.
We did get to one very important discovery yesterday: my wanting to kill myself would definitely stop my pain, but it would also cause pain to my W and kids. That I alread knew. What I discovered was that the pain I would cause my W would be the ultimate act of her having no control over me. That was an eye opener.

Back to my being home. I need to be a doormat and take care of her (body, mind, heart and soul) to the point where she will let me. She asked me how much money I was giving her tomorrow (Thur)? I asked her how much she needed and she couldn't give me an answer. She said she would have a definite number soon once her lawyer has filed a tende lette ?. Which is suppose to mean a court order to give her a certain amount of money each week. I am thinking about taking my checking acct and converting it into a joint acct again, since I am back in the house. I will consider any suggestions from fellow MBers.

Lastly, I am almost finished with SAA. The next book I think I need to read is Love Busters. With my not wanting to be controlled and my being controlling, this is paramount (I feel) to putting my M back together. I figure I have about 18 months to have her see me for who I really am and not the vision of the man who devistated her with my A and other selfish acts.

Thanks for now,
TTSMM

I left the HNHN book out (which I did not finish so I could start SAA) so she would find it and she did. She has called 3-4 times already today at work. She has laced into me for the all the cruel things I did and said it was not just the A. Yes I was cruel and I did not behave like the H I should have. I had just left living in my Mom's apt after I met my W. Going from one controlling woman to another was not what I was looking for. Therefore, I rebelled, and in the worst way.
So...she let me have an earful and still is (1 time during this posting): my A, roadrage, grabbing her wrist, my sex addiction, our arguments. I know I am suppose to be a doormat, and its difficult not LBing. How should I react/be on the phone, or when she does this tonight after the kids go to bed?

She then tells me that she is getting the house and that her atty and her therapist (my former) knows her atty and both feel sorry for her and can't believe she took so much sh** for so long. Problem here is they only hear her side of the story. When we did (2x) go to the same therapist together, she would refute? everything I said and constantly interrupt me. But I let her get all her words out nver contradicting her once (although I definitely could have).

Wiht tall the pain I am going through right now and the pain I have caused, I have one thing to say to anyone thinking of having an affair:

DON'T EVEN THINK OF HAVING ONE. STAY CLEAR AWAY FROM ANYONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX IF THERE IS EVEN A SLIGHT CHANCE OF UNITS BEING DEPOSITED IN THE LOVE BANK. IF YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER WON'T GO TO COUNSELLING, GO BY YOURSELF. DON'T HAVE AN AFFAIR.

While telling me all these things, she was angry, but when it came to the A itself, she broke down crying and I felt like a total loser. I don't know if I can save this M. I will try. I will be that doormat and fulfill the ENs she lets me.

I have to go back to work, and wait for her next call. She's still reading HNHN, so who knows what I am in store for when I get home.

TTSMM

[ August 07, 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]

Sounds like the 5 stages of grief. She is in the anger stage. This should pass. Give it time. I'm proud of you for no LBs.

nj,
Would you please tell me more about these stages so I can prepare myself better.
thanks,
ttsmm

Five Stages of Grief (as they pertain to death, or diagnosis thereof):

The first stage is denial

Upon hearing the diagnosis, the patient reacts with a shocked, "No, not me." According to Dr.Kubler-Ross, this is a healthy stage, and permits the patient and the family to develop other defenses.

Next comes anger or resentment

"Why me?" is the question asked now. "Why my child?" Blame, directed against the doctor, nurses and God often is a part of this stage. This outcry should be accepted, unjudged.

The third stage is bargaining

"Yes me, but-" "If you'll just give me five years, God, I'll . . ." This Dr. Kubler-Ross calls a period of temporary truce.

The fourth stage is depression

Now the person says, "Yes, me," with the courage to admit that it is happening; this acknowledgment brings depression. (Note: The family often goes through all the stages, along with the patient.)

Finally comes acceptance

A time of facing death calmly. This is often a difficult time for the family, since the patient tends to withdraw, to be silent.

TTSMM: What you need to do is consider this list in the context of an affair. In my case, there was very little to overcome, but even so I am still waffling around through anger, depression, and acceptance. I think the bargaining phase is when you find out and you're trying to keep your spouse at any cost. That's my personal take on it.

Although they tend to go in a certain order, be prepared for backsliding and repeats of certain phases. Also, remember that finding out your spouse has been unfaithful is a death of sorts: of innocence, of trust, etc.

Hope this helps.

One way to look at this is that in a way, discovery of A, is a form of death. Death of what you thougth was real. Now you have to redefine everything.

My understanding of the 5 stages of grief is that it is normal to go back and forth between the stages for a while.

ttsmm,

Glad to see that you are back in the house. It may help being there and communicating. Just try to be calm and not lose it. I am sure that will help. Just keep to plan A as best you can.

Sorry I am unable to add much but I sure hope things work out.

Just try and stay calm and think before you answer her.

Good luck.

Rho

Back in one of my other posts Encouragin my Wife to MB I asked how I could get my W to read any of the MB books and the website. Since I moved back in, less than 2 days ago, she has started going through my personal belongings. One of those belongings is HNHN. She has now been calling me and exploding about my notes, highlightings, and then bringing up many past events.

She also, is bringing up nonsensical things. For example: while I was out of the house, my cousin's D had a bday party which my W did not attend. She must have called my cousin though, because she came back at me saying I was flirting with my other cousin's GF. First off, the women she is mentioing to me was not at the party, they broke up. Second, she thinks anyone I talk to I am flirting with. I like to talk to people, men, women, children. My W thinks I am flirting.

With this women in question, a few years back, at one of my cousin's kids parties, this women and I threw a football around. I asked my W to throw it around, but she is not into sports. I didn't think anything of it (EN RC - I did not read any MB stuff at that time obviuosly). Also, when I had to change our S's diapers, this women went with me. No hanky panky, just talking as we changed his clothes. I can absolutely see this as a problem now, but back then, there was nothing to be jealous of anything, I wasn't doing anything.

So....she is now reading the HNHN, and it is not a good result.....for now?!?!?!?!?

To the stages of grief.
The problem right now is with her anger is that everything she is feeling is going to her atty. As such, because she is not thinking/acting rationally, a bigger D case is being built against me day by day. She kept a diary from when she first found the pic (mentioned in a previous post I believe) over 5 years ago. How do I deal with that later on? If it were just her and I and therapists, maybe I would feel I have a chance, but once an atty is involved, they document everything.

She has a very, very good atty too. He is a judge in three counties, comes from a reputiple family, etc. My atty knows her atty and told me things in confidence during the TRO. One of them being that he was going to drop my wife because he felt she is looney and because she didn't have any money. Now because my W sold her wedding and engagement rings, he takes the case.

Thanks for letting me vent. Better here, then at home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TTSMM

TTSMY, Do you still have an atty? Maybe he could ease your mind about if/how all of her "findings" affect the legal proceedings. Some of it might not make a difference at all, depending on the laws of your state. Also, there is a website (I believe it is MegaLaw.com) where you could look up the divorce statutes for your state and maybe ease your mind about a few things. If that web address doesn't work, you could look it up on Yahoo if you wanted. All of her ranting and raving doesn't necessarily mean she has a cut-and-dried case against you on every matter.
It sounds like she has been holding this anger in for years and it's all coming out at once. Maybe some of it will difuse and she will be able to be more calm and rational after a while. I hope so! Good luck!

[ August 08, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]

Thank you Mebb...can't get to the computer...KIDS!

You can go back and forth thru the stages, but everyone goes thru the same ones. Hope you are having a good day and I wish you a great weekend. If she won't spend time with you, there is nothing better than a walk on the Jersey Shore to clear your head. OK, maybe a few Florida and California beaches, but nothing better than a long walk on a beach or a mountain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just venting.

Lousey weekend. On Friday, my boss (50 yr woman) calls my home # instead of my cell phone, because she was looking for me for a mtg. She then tells me to call my W to fix. When I called my W my boss took the phone and talked to her, about 10 minutes. My boss is very gregarious and my W thought she sounded drunk. Therefore, on Sat my W went off that I must now be having an A w/my boss. And probably w/the OW as well. I have rotten taste in women, except of course for her (my W). I felt the urge to defend myself and I did, but without AO, firm, but I still felt like I should have 'yesed her'.

On Sun, I take the kids to church and I asked my W if she would mind being home by 2:45 PM so I could go to the gym. My W returned at 1:45 PM. She said to me that she didn't know that the gym was open until 6pm. I told her I didn't know that either. Then she said, that it doesn't, it closes at 4pm. "Why are you lying? This isn't about me loving you, I don't. Why do you have to lie?" I told her I honestly got the time mixed up. So I went to the gym and then met them at the pool, like I promised. When I arrived at the pool, she didn't say a word to me except that she was leaving (as we had agreed earlier). I spent an hour and a half w/the kids.

That has been my life since the A, BAD LUCK. No matter what I do, my cell phone is in the wonrg cell when she calls me, my boss with her mistake, my telling her the wrong time, etc. It's as though the whole bleeping universe is telling me to give it up. THIS SUCKS!!!!!

When I got home, she was her cold self. She cooked dinner and sat down w/the kids. She left me some and I ate it after they were done. Should I sit down w/the family if she doesn't invite me? I feel like I have to ask permission for everything. I asked if I could take a shower in the master bathroom.

I went to the store to get something and yelled up to the stairs to say goodbye to our D. Then I kissed our S and as I was leaving, my W commented on why I never asked for our S when I was out of the house for 2+ months? I did, but I asked more for our D when I was permitted to call legally. My W is just picking things to pick a fight.

All weekend, she has been asking for money, she guessed wrong on her budget. When I gave her money on Friday, I offered more than she asked but she said she was fine. She has total problems when it comes to calculating funds, but she excellent at saving money. I gave her $60 more this weekend; and I am sure I will be giving her at least another $100 before end of this week. I really would have been fine giving her that up front. She is just doing everything possible to drive me crazy.

She went out last night to get diapers and I asked her if she would please pick up mouthwash for me. She comes back and hands me the change and says she is not obligated to pick up things for me at the store. So I went out again, and when I returned, all the lights were out in the house. I went down to the basement to straighten my area (she was upset on Sat saying I had promised to sleep in the basement, but she found me on the sofa every morning). I told her I have my stuff in the basment and I sleep on the sofa so I am available to the kids. "You're just trying to worm you way back into the bedroom."

While cleaning up the basment I was looking through our photo chest. At the top was a plastic bag with our wedding photo in it. It was hanging on the wall in our bedroom just the day before. This hit me real hard, and I started crying. How can I ever think there is any hope, when she does these things? Most of the stories I have read on this forum are about the BS wanting the WS to stop the A and is willing to work on the M. I have not come across a posting where the WS has stopped the A and is tyring to resolve the M when the BS doesn't want the M to work anymore.

I called this morning to let her know I ordered our S's mattress. Not even a thankyou. She said she doesn't know who I am trying to impress, but it won't work on her after all the damage I have done to her ego, etc. I told her I understand and she said that she didn't think I did, that is why she has re-remind me.

While finishing this posting, she calls about the mattress. She tells that the boards for our S's bed are in the bedroom on the "guest" side where my clothes used to be. I did not react on the phone, and again, I feel like s**t.

Thanks for letting me vent..again.
TTSMM

bump....are you both in counc.?

TTSMM - Sorry you are feeling so sad and that you had such a bad weekend.
At first I wanted to say that your wife's behavior seems somewhat childish - example: She won't even pick up mouthwash for you at the store with money YOU gave her - but maybe she is working out her anger the best way she knows how. I think OT MB'ers would say for you to just keep being loving, no matter how she acts. She could be testing you to see if you are sincere about changing. I can see how it will take a lot of time and testing for her to trust you again (I say that with compassion since I am also a WS).
Also just wanted you to know I'm still thinking about you and your family, praying and hoping for the best!

ttsmm:

This is all normal.

Recognize that your W is still very hurt, and very angry. This will go on for however long she lets it. Because it is her choice 2 be angry, it's not something you can make her feel.

This will be a long process. Months of this kind of thing, followed probably by years of recovery. You can't work around this period. You have 2 live through it.

Hm... about the books. I would be surprised if she could find much in HNHN 2 use as "ammunition" in an argument against you, but she might. Let her read it, though. SAA would be a good one for a FWS 2 leave laying around for the BS 2 read, 2. It's straight 2 the point, with very succinct descriptions of how 2 recover your M.

But how about some surprises? Greg Baer's "The Truth About Relationships" won't give you or her anything 2 be angry about, in fact it'll make you think 2ice about exploding at each other ever again. Another "great" is Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now". This is about living in the NOW. Because the past and fu2re exist only in our memories and imaginations. We can do a lot of harm 2 ourselves with negative thinking, running of scenarios over and over, replaying past mistakes over and over. Without really addressing what we've experienced in a thoughtful, compassionate way, we can't learn anything from the past. We can only trash the present with it. And worrying about the fu2ure is worse, in many ways. Why fret over something that hasn't happened?

Take care, hunker down, and realize this will be a slow, painful process. But at the end of it, you'll be a much better person for the journey, and your M may be better as well.

-ol' 2long

We were both going to the same counselor, who after our first couple session, refused to see us together again. He tells me I have grown and am willing to change, but that she isn't. He tells me not to tell her what he tells me. But my W tells me everything about what he says to her. That he knows I am messed up, etc. I don't know wether to believe my W or my C. He was good for me but not for my M. My W likes him and refused to ever change C's. I am now with a new C, but I am feeling that most (if not ALL) C's and attys will tell you what you want to here. This is what I feel is going on with my W's C and atty. She is no longer listening to or taking the advice of family, friends, etc.
Yesterday, during one of our mildly heated discussions, she said she doesn't love me anymore and she is too young (42) to not have sex any more (as are you). I told her that I am not looking for any one else. I love her and that I am going to continue to try and resolve the M until the judge signs the D papers.

I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. I am losing hope because, from what she tells me, everyone agrees with her and is against me. I can't win. A win is saving my M.

I quit my Men's team yesterday. These men know my whole life story. Most of them have said D her. Others, don't argue anymore. But all of them get angry because I don't agree with them and follow their advice. I ask for advice/suggestions and then I decide what I am going to do. But with these men, their egos get bent if a man doesn't follow their words; similar to my W (hmmm).

I told my W yesterday that I wish she would have spoken to me throughout the M with compassion, etc. (trying to explain the LB's) but to no avail. She still feels and told me so that because I did the things I did (5 years ago) that that is me. It doesn't matter. Because I was interested in sexual perversions (as she puts it) I would never be satisfied with her alone. Bu**sh**! During that time, Iwas destructive to myself and to the M. I didn't care and I wanted to end the M. Now after begin in C for a few years, being on my Men's team, reading, reading, reading I know what I want. I want my W and I want a loving, strong M with her. I am trying to apply all the MB principles. And, she doesn't want me anymore. How can I go against that?

TTSMM ???

ttsmm:

You are doing as much as you can to save your M. I'm glad you are still with us and didn't do anything foolish before. I know how so frustrating it is when you spouse has chosen not to help you both recover. Maybe for now think about what you can do for yourself. Spoil yourself a little. I know it's hard to enjoy something when your heart's not in it but try anyways. A teacher in highschool once said to us: "Fake enthusiasm. It just might rub off and make you smile inspite of yourself."

We're all here for you.

Well, I blew it again. I took of work early so my W could keep a dental appt and not have to worry about the kids. On the way home she calls me and complains about how she feels i have been spoiling the kids (outings, toys, lunch, etc.). When she was working she would spend her little bit of money on the kids, so why not me. In fact when she brouhgt it up last time (3-4 wks ago) I stopped. Yesterday, I wanted to play with my S so I bought a whiffle ball set. She got bent out of shape over this.

When I got home, the fur rose very quickly. Everything leads back to the A. It doesn't matter the subject. We were screaming at eachother, and she called me a sex addict - I AM NOT!!!!! And I called her, selfish, jerk, etc. Real loving words, huh <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Because I was doing those things five years ago, and haven't since, doesn't make me a SA. I am tired of having to defend myself on this. This is the sore point (maybe) with her. How can she trust me if I am a SA? Well, in the past she kept bringing it up over and over again, until to shut her up I said I was. If I can say I don't want/need/crave going to a strip club, or looking at mags, or vis, etc., then I am not a SA. ITs not a matter of controlling it, I choose to not have it control me. She's read a book and her atty and C agree (from what she tells me) that "Once an addict, always an addict".

She's wants honesty, that is her major EN. In the past, my honesty resulted in her LBing me with AO, SD, and etc. (before I knew what LBing was). So to defend myself against the hurt from her, I withdrew the truth and sometimes outright lied. This is what helped me create a double life and permit the A.

Again, I am battling her, her atty, her C, family, etc. Although I never heard them say these things about me. Funny huh <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Everytime I argue with her, I am destroying any chance of R. I wish we would have a session with a C together (a referee so to speak) so we would see eachother's viewpoint. It tears me up each and every hour/minute/second that I cannot repair my M.

I am seeing a friend now (neighbor) and we will be meeting each week for a Bible study together. Maybe GOD can help me save my M. But, when one (my W) is not religious or spiritual, how much hope can I have? IF IT BE GOD'S WILL, MY M WILL BE SAVED.

TTSMM

ttsmm,

Just checking in to see how you are going. Hope things are going well.

Rho

Rho/Others,
It has been a quiet weekend +. That's because we didn't talk to eachother. I have been trying to be there for her, DS, is about all I can offer or she will accept right now.
I just got off the phone because her father is ill in the hosp. He has skin cancer or melonoma, noone is telling. Anyway, she wnats ot know why I am so interested in his health? He's my father-in-law. She doesn't buy it. She thinks I am trying to make her feel guilty because I lost my parents both ove rhte last year and she didn't care one bit.
She then went off on me about my addcition, sickness, etc, and how she is a wonderful woman. How I am selfish and that she is not based on her actions. I listened and did not reply. She once again told me that she is divorcing me and why can't can't I get that through my thick head?
I was able to ake everything she dished out and then she dropped another on me, matter of factly. She asked me to take a day off from work in Sept to watch the kids. She has appt with the Superior Court to discuss how you talk to your kids about divorce. This cut me like a knife and I started crying, unbeknowst to her.

I DONT'T WANT A DIVORCE! and I am now powerless to do anything about it. I just can't see for myself that there might still be hope. Why am I so blind to this? Why can't I cope with this?

I am going for a walk around the block to clear my head so I can go back to work.

I know that until the D papers are signed, anything is possible. Anyone out there think there is still hope?

TTSMM

Dear TTSMM:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{TTSMM}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Just thought you could use one right now.

As TooMuchCoffeeMan says, "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings". Your W doesn't sing does she?

Hang in there...we're pulling for you.

SAB,
Yeah, she sings, but her quality is *****. She is singing everyday about what I did to her. Today she calls me 4 times to say how she is going to get the house for the kids and herself, calls me sick, why shuld she forgive, etc. I was the doormat and only cut her off when I was entering my job.

I thought things were ok the last few days; no arguements, LBing, but no conversation either. Any converstion was 'if she was asking for money' or 'needed something'. Not everytime, but a few times, the words "I appreciate that..." would be uttered from her mouth. I guess I am fulfilling Fin'l Support?

After getting those phone calls, I have a pit in my stomach. I am on Zoloft (anti-D) for the last 3 days, but I am not suppose to see any effects until 2-3 weeks. Also, this morning, she asked if I could have some of my friends throw out the dresser in our bedroom (this is my old dresser). More stomach aches.

TTSMM

Sad news. My W called me at work an hour ago. She told me that she finished talking to her lawyer's asst and that tonight, at home, I was going to be served D papers. THIS IS THE DARKEST DAY OF MY LIFE! I am NOT thinking about suicide or anything like that. I said several 'Our Father's' to get myself through. I have a terrible pain in my stomach and my hands are trembling. "Thy Will be Done!" is all I keep saying. How do I act when I get home? How do I react when this stranger comes to my home and serves me the papers? GOD HELP ME!

TTSMM

TTSMM, I'm so sorry that you are in so much pain. I've never been served with divorce papers, so I can't know exactly how you feel, but I wanted to remind you there are people here who are still concerned about you and remembering you in our prayers. My suggestion would be to keep taking your meds and seeing an IC, and surround yourself with friends and family who are supportive. Take deep breaths. God bless you as you go through this.

Just a thought... You may be served with D papers, but is it necessary to sign them? If so, if you really don't want a D you can contest it. That way, she has the burden of proof in court.

Let me know if I'm off base.

SAB,
You are not off base.
She has pictures of her wrists when I grabbed her 5 years ago. Since she found the pic of this woman I was chatting with on Internet, she said she has kept a diary. She has every argument, road rage, coming home late, me confessing to the A 3-1/2 years later, etc. (so she tells me).

TTSMM

TTSMM
I was lurking on this board on July31st when I came across your post and let me tell you it scared the hell out of me.I didn't reply because it seemed many of the others on this board went all out to give you advise and love and I sent you some mentally.

Now I've just finished reading this whole thread and my heart goes out to you and your wife.I think you've done some deep soul searching and it is a long journey you are on. My Husband was very verbally abusive and controlling ( although he never saw it that way ) always my fault. I loved him very much and love him still but I know his LB's devastated me. In the end I withdrew as it was the only way I could protect myself. Eventually we separated and were apart for two years.

He had a lot of baggage from his childhood, basically thought his mother and grandmother were controlling *****es and he was never going to let any woman control him again. Well guess what I was not his mother in fact nothing like her but I paid for what she caused in his young life.

Sexually he also used porn all the time and I would watch with him and even enjoy it from time to time but it ended up feeling like I was in a treesome and thats not my style. Porn stops you from connecting with the person your'e with. For the last 4yrs of our marriage there was no sex (he was angry with me ) personally I think he is angry at all women.

We are very good friends now and we help each other in every way. We share family meals and also spend lots of time together. Believe me it feels good. I think your wife is angry with you for taking her forgranted and it sounds like you all need a little space away from eachother. It feels like to me you are pushing too hard because you are afraid of losing her. Real love has nothing to do with fear. I commend you for not using LB's as they are devastating and do NO GOOD WHATSOEVER.If you give yourself some space and then try dating her and treating her like the queen she is maybe then you can be the King I know you are. There are so many overwhelming feelings overtaking you both right now sometimes one needs some time alone to be able to see things in a clear light. Both of you need help to really see yourselves and eachother and how you came to the place you're in now.

I have been to councellors who I felt just wanted to agree with me and make me feel good and they didn't help much and my H just thought he was right and didn't need a C. It's good to start seeing our faults as thats the first step in changing them. Men and women do not speak the same language and if you can find a good translater someone who can teach you to hear eachother instead of just wanting to be heard that really helps.

Finally, I am so glad you didn't do anything to yourself that night because whatever happens now you are on your way to becoming the incredible MAN you were meant to be.

Cottontail,
Thanks for your support.
This weekend was tough. My W called me at work to order more toys for our D for Christmas. I told her I would take care of it when I got home. Later that evening, after the kids went to bed, I was ready to call the toy company, and my W said "You will probably be upset by what I am going to say, but, I want to be on the phone when you order the toys so I know you are not pocketing the money." In the past, I would have blown up (LBing). This time I only said, "OK." It did bother me me tremendously though. I mean, if I had ordered the toys from work earlier, she would not have been on the phone to 'check up'. What was the difference because I was home?
Another strange point, when she comes down from the bedroom to go to the kitchen, she comes down the strairs and takes the 'long way' to the kitchen (through 2 add'l rooms) so she will not pass by the sofa I am on (whether I am awake or not).
On Saturaday I went out with a friend, male, for a few drinks and dinner. When I came home, my W started to talk to me about her taking a vacation w/o the kids (or me). She will problably go to California to see a girlfriend. So I listened and was supportive. Then I started telling her about dinner with my friend. As soon as opened my mouth, she said something like 'that's your personal life, not my concern.'
On Monday, I was saying to myself, how can I fulfil the EN of Conversation when she doesn't want to talk. Right after that, I went up to our bedroom and she was talking about the kids. We talked for about 50 minutes (far cry from 2+ hours a day to get the min of 15). What was intereseting is that she talked about how her mother was with her growing up. She squashed her beauty and this affected how my W felt out about herself sexually. "It's hard to admit our shortcomings", she said and she apolgized for our sex life. Then she said that that doesn't mean she would have done anything crazy sexually with me, and that you should only do things that are comfortable for you. This was good to hear from her. I felt the urge to defend myself again for what she was talking about as crazy sexually; I wanted those things when I was deep in the Internet and the A. I don't want those things now. But it is impossible (right now) to bring those things up.
Lastly, on Friday, she asked if anyone came by to give me something. She was talking about the D papers. Noone had and she seemed upset over that. I hope to have the strength with God's help to not blow up when these papers are handed to me.

How do I give her space w/o completely losing her? I was out of the house for three months. During that time she sold her wedding and engagement rings to pay for her atty. She changed the locks on the house. She is serving me D papers and doesn't want to talk. Ignores me in the house, unless she needs money. As for dating, read some of my other posts. I told her recently, that I wanted to take her out on a date, and she said, "We're married. You are so weird. Married people don't go out on dates." She is very language oriented; words mean way too much. I have to select every word carefully, or I will hear it later on, and she won't hear the rest of my sentance.

On Sunday, I went to an SLAA (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous) meeting. My behavior, 5 - 6 years ago, was definitely addictive, although I never admitted that at the time. But now, I don't feel I am an SA. I have urges, desires and I am not doing anything that is remotely damging to the M. But with her constant berage of "Your illness..." I am questioning myself. I am going to continue to attend the meetings for a while to get a better understanding.

Thanks again,
TTSMM