I apologize in advance for the length of this post…

I met my wife almost 17 years ago. We met right out of High School and attended College together. We were engaged after 2 years and married after 4. We have two daughters: 8 and 3.

Up until about a year ago, I though I had the perfect life. I had a wonderful wife, great kids, a beautiful house, a good job that I love (but don’t work excessive hours). I actual thanked God everyday for blessing me with all of these things.

Then, about a year ago, everything changed. I discovered a ton of cell phone records to a mutual single friend. At first, she convinced me that they were getting serious, but nothing had happened sexually. Then, I intercepted some e-mail that confirmed otherwise. Once caught, she admitted that they had been seeing each other sexually for several months.

The lies and deception continued for several months after I found out about the affair. She’d look me in the eyes and swear that I’m the one she wanted, but then would go off and meet him for lunch. Throughout the ordeal, I continued to fight for my marriage. I begged her to come to marriage counseling, read a bunch of books, and constantly reassured her that we could get through this. Initially, she was very cold & distant. She’d waver between he and I just about every day. After a few months, I became fed up and told her I wanted out. She then “suddenly” came to her senses, sent him an e-mail “ending” the relationship and agreed to get help (counseling).

Since my guard was up, I checked everything –e-mail, phone records, redial on the phone. When I went out of town, she was always where she said she would be (usually with the kids). I began to believe that I had made the right decision staying with her. She constantly reassured me that she was much happier and didn’t want anything to do with him. In fact, she told me that it was no longer necessary to attend marriage counseling after a few months. Everything was perfect.

This continued for 10 months. I was almost completely through the pain of the first affair and constantly reassured her (and she reassured me) that we were meant to be together.

Then, a mutual friend told me that she was still talking to him. I was shocked and didn’t believe what I was hearing. When I confronted my wife, she admitted that she began seeing him again a few months after the last break.

Evidently, he was out of work for a number of months, so she’d meet him at his apartment (something I never dreamed to check on). He’d call to our house and block his number and she’d call him from a pay phone. They obviously worked hard to keep this from being discovered again.

She got caught one night when I was out of town. He came over upset and she wouldn’t give him his car keys when he wanted to leave, so he pushed her down and dragged her across our patio. That’s the kind of man that we’re dealing with. She confessed to a mutual friend who couldn’t keep it secret any longer.

This time, I found out a lot of truth about the entire affair. It actually started much earlier than I was told and she admitted that things actually happened in our house (which she denied until recently). I actually received some of her letters to him (he agreed to give them to me) where she tells him that she is going to leave me and that she’d only be happy with him. Most of the letters were written recently. One was written after he pushed her down.

Now, she tells me that she sees the light and wants nothing to do with him. She has done some things to try to convince me she’s serious this time, but I just don’t know. Sometimes she really seems sincere, but other times she gets upset & impatient that I moved out and stopped wearing my wedding ring. She’s even came up to my work and made a scene. She accuses me of being just like him when I’m upset and can’t comfort or reassure her about our marriage.

Right now, I have such a mix of feelings: Anger, resentment, shock, and depression.
She tells me that she never really loved him. She insists that it was more of an obsession.
Our marriage counselor feels that we have a strong “core” to our relationship, but also knows that a lot of damage has been done. I have resolved to myself not to make any major decisions for now. Unfortunately, my wife wants everything to be back to “normal” as soon as possible.
The strange part about this whole mess is that both he and my wife confirmed that she’d constantly tell him that I’m perfect. He’d get very upset about this. If I’m so perfect, how did this affair ever start?

I am now reading “Surviving an Affair” and most of the material makes sense. I honestly believe I followed the recommendations the first time around. I honestly believed I had made the right decisions and was POSITIVE my wife had ended the affair. Now that I found out it was going on for another 10 months without me even suspecting, I have a problem with the part that indicates what to do if the affair doesn’t end (Plan B). Obviously, this assumes that I know that the relationship is going on, right? These two have gotten to be experts at hiding this affair, so how would I ever know it ended? I don’t trust my wife at all anymore, so I almost have to assume that the relationship will never end.

That’s one of my many dilemmas. Any suggestions what to do next?

betrayed,

Welcome to the forum <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A few questions:

Has the affair supposedly ended again?
You two are currently in Marriage Counseling?
What extraordinary efforts did your wife agree to reassure that the affair was over (obviously, they weren't enough.....are they enough now?)

Here's what I mean. This is from the homesite:

Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover
To help you totally separate from your lover, and avoid the temptation to see him when you crave him the most, I suggest the following extraordinary precautions:

1. Honesty

The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.

Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.

You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.

Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage.

Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage, it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovers that you've lied to him.

If you think your husband may divorce you or become violent when you are honest with him, I encourage you to be honest anyway, before you begin your plan for reconciliation. If he cannot accept the truth, no plan of reconciliation will work.

2. Account for Your Time.

Once you have established a willingness to be completely honest with your husband, then continue to be honest with him about all of your activities. Make sure he knows about everything you do throughout the day. Give him a complete schedule of your activities, and let him know which of those activities make you most tempted to contact your former lover. Try to avoid people and places that increase your craving to be with him.

3. Spend As Much of Your Time with Your Husband as Possible.

During withdrawal, there is not much your husband can do to deposit love units into your Love Bank. But it still makes sense for you to be together as much as possible. That's because the more you are with him, the less you will be tempted to contact your lover. Try to have lunch together, talk on the telephone several times a day, and be sure to spend evenings and weekends together.

In many cases, I have suggested that a husband and wife go on a three-week vacation together during the first few weeks of withdrawal, just to help the wayward spouse avoid contacting the former lover. I tell these couples not to expect too many love units to be deposited, but by getting away from the reminders of the lover, they find that such a vacation greatly reduces the time it takes for withdrawal. Besides, the distractions of a vacation can often compensate for the depression that accompanies withdrawal, and makes the experience much less painful.

Sometimes a wayward spouse feels like getting away from everyone during withdrawal, and going on the vacation alone. But it doesn't work. It's too tempting to call the lover, and in many cases the lover ends up joining the wayward spouse.

If you go with your husband on this vacation, you will not feel like being very romantic with him. He should expect very little from you, because you will be recovering from your addiction to your lover. It's only after the craving for your lover subsides, and your depression lifts that you will be able to give your husband the opportunity to deposit all the love units it takes for you to be in love with him again.

Of course, your husband must be very careful to avoid making matters worse by saying and doing anything that would upset you. Granted, he may not be very happy about your affair, but if he wants you to love him again, he must avoid withdrawing love units at all costs. He must be with you as much as possible, yet avoid anger, disrespect and demands, which are all Love Busters. He must also be careful to take your feelings into account whenever you make decisions.

If you slip, and contact your lover in spite of the extraordinary precautions you take, tell you husband about it immediately. Then, improve your extraordinary precautions to include the condition that caused the slip. Keep improving them until it becomes virtually impossible for you to contact your lover. A slip will set you back emotionally, but it does not mean that your recovery plan has been ruined. It simply needs an upgrade.

In many cases, I have encouraged couples to relocate to a different part of the country to avoid contact with a lover. It's a good example of an extraordinary precaution upgrade, when it became apparent that contact with a lover could not be avoided when living in the same city. It goes without saying that when lovers are fellow employees, a job change is absolutely essential to marital recovery. How is total separation from a former lover possible when you work together?

You asked if you should avoid using the internet, since it reminds you of your lover, and tempts you to contact him. I'm sure you can anticipate my answer. I suggest that you stay away from the internet until you are through withdrawal, and you have restored your love to your husband again. Then, I think it would be safe for you to return to it again.

Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery
After you are through withdrawal from the addiction to your lover, your depression will have lifted and you will no longer feel a craving to talk to your lover. At that time you will be ready to put into place rules that will guide you and your husband toward a deep love for each other. After you have followed the rules for a while (six months to two years), you and your husband will be soul-mates.

These are the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery that you and your husband should follow to help you restore your love for eachother:

1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.

If you and your husband want to be in love with each other, you must build your Love Bank accounts. But before you build them, you must be sure there are no leaks in the Love Bank. It's pointless to deposit love units into a sieve, where every deposit is promptly withdrawn by a Love Buster. So you must make a special effort to plug up those leaks by committing yourselves to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness.

The most obvious things spouses do to ruin their love for each other is what I call Love Busters. They are angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, annoying behavior, selfish demands and dishonesty. I describe these destructive habits in my basic concepts, but if you need special help learning how to avoid them, I suggest you read, Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love. This book will help you identify the Love Busters that keep emptying your Love Bank accounts, and show you how to stop inflicting them on each other.

Most of the Q&A columns I've posted on the Marriage Builders? web site focuses attention on the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). This policy protects both you and your husband from each other thoughtless decisions. Your affair was a blatant example of thoughtlessness on your part because you knew it would hurt your husband, but you went ahead and did it anyway. The Policy of Joint Agreement is a very important guide to helping you keep the Rule of Protection. That's because it helps you realize that anything you do that hurts your husband is off limits to you, regardless of how wonderful it makes you feel.

If you had followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would never have had an affair. But the Policy will also help you avoid hurting each other in a host of other ways, too. My book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, can help you learn how to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, and use it to negotiate agreements that are fair for both of you. Once you learn to negotiate with each other fairly, you will have learned how to follow the Rule of Protection.

2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.

The way to deposit the most love units is to meet a person's most important emotional needs. Your lover did that when he wrote you all those e-mail letters because conversation was your most important emotional need. After one month of filling your Love Bank with thousands of love units that were e-mailed to you, you found him irresistible -- you were in love with him.

Conversation is not your only important emotional need. Affection, recreational companionship, admiration and sexual fulfillment may be some of the other important emotional needs that your lover met. Unless your husband eventually meets your must important needs as well as your lover met them, you will be frustrated and at risk for another affair.

Sometimes a spouse must learn to meet a need that he or she has never been very effective in meeting. Many of the spouses I've counseled have had to learn to be affectionate for the first time in their lives. They also have had to learn to be stimulating conversationalists and skilled lovers. They have had to learn to provide greater financial support, become more effective in their parenting skills and learn to become admiring instead of being critical. New habits that lead to need fulfillment can be learned by anyone. All it takes is a plan and willingness to follow it until expert level is achieved.

But your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs. An important reason that you had an affair was that your husband's work schedule prevented him from giving you the attention you craved from him. When you and your husband agree to follow this second Rule to Recovery, his work schedule will no longer stand between you, because meeting your needs will become your husband's highest priority. All the needs that your lover was meeting for you will be met by your husband in the future.

If you need help identifying and learning how to meet each other's important emotional needs, I suggest you read, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage. It describes the ten most important emotional needs for men and women, and how to become an expert at meeting those needs. When your husband has learned to meet your needs, he will be depositing so many love units that his account in your Love Bank will be overflowing. By then, you will be thoroughly convinced that leaving your lover to rebuild your marriage was the right decision to make.

3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.

You indicated in your letter that it was the lack of your spouse's attention that drove you into the arms of your lover. But it may have been more a lack of time than a lack of attention. As I already mentioned, your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs, but unless he sets aside enough time to do it, all of his skill does you no good at all. It's the man who gives you time for undivided attention who will win your heart.

I suggest that you and your husband plan to spend at least 15 hours each week together, giving each other your undivided attention. Use that time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. I have found that if that amount of time is taken to meet emotional needs, you can spend the rest of your 100 waking hours each week doing just about anything you please, without any risk to your love for each other. But if you do not set aside that time, your good intentions will not buy you a single love unit.

Since most everything we do must be scheduled or we don't do it, I suggest you take about a half an hour each week (say, Sunday afternoon from 3:30 to 4:00) to schedule your time together for the next week. Get out your schedules and write each other into your appointment books. Once scheduled, don't let anything interfere with your time together.

I suggest spending the same days and times together every week because it's easier to remember than a new time each week. Besides, you can be better emotionally prepared to be with each other if you always know that Tuesday evening you will be together from 7 to 10.

I also suggest that you spend time together when you have plenty of energy. Don't give each other the leftovers, give each other the best of yourselves. That's why I generally rule out time together after 11:00 pm. For one thing, you need your sleep for the challenges of the next day, and for another, there are not too many people who are at their best that late at night.

Finally, I suggest that you spread your time out every week, giving each other at least one hour of undivided attention every day. I am generally opposed to cramming all of your time together into a marathon weekend of 15 hours, because undivided attention is required, and 15 hours of anything makes undivided attention almost impossible.

4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.

We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other -- with openness and honesty.

You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.

The Basic Concepts section of this web site contains a section entitled, "the Policy of Radical Honesty." It outlines precisely what the rule of honesty is. It's complete honesty. I want you to read it over very carefully, because it explains precisely how honest you and your husband are to be with each other.

But be careful not to let Love Busters ruin the purity and value of honesty. Keep anger, disrespect and demands out of your honest expression of facts and feelings. If you can do that, you will find your honesty will not only help you find solutions to your problems, but it will also draw you closer together, and help you become the soul-mates that you can be.

If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, and then you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery, I guarantee you that you will have a great marriage. And I also guarantee you that neither of you will ever suffer through an affair again.

What a horrible story. She clearly is an excellent liar and does not have any problem putting your health at risk and destroying your marriage. Aside from all of this she decides to have sex with him in your home which should be the one place that should be secure for you. She has disrespected you, your marriage and your relationship. She sounds like a perfect cakewoman who has no problem lying, cheating on you, promising to change and then continues the affair in your home while you are working. I am probably in the minority here but I would contact an attorney and look at your options here and move on. She says you are absolute perfect and then has sex with her lover in your home after you forgave her is too much. My guess is she enjoys the material benefits that you provide her which allows her to continue her affair and disrespect and humiliate you.

You were kind enough to forgive her the first time and this is how she repays you? She clearly is addicted to him for her to do these things to you and in your home again after your forgave her. The chances are pretty good it is still continuing since an addict will do and say anthing to continue their high. I would think long and hard how much you are willing to endure in your life but then again it is your life. What a role model for your children. I wish you luck.

Betrayed,

I went through a similar story although the time is a bit more compressed. I feared the big "Divorce", but to be honest, I am much happier now.

There is no more stomach queasiness, no more worrying about where she is, no more embarrassment. Just freedom...

Let her go. I won't say it as harshly as BryanP, but I definitely understand where he is coming from. There is a point where you just have to cut your losses.

I wish the very best for you...I know what a trying time this is.

A response to star*fish:

Has the affair supposedly ended again?

Yes. She assures me that she wants nothing to do with him anymore. She claims to have seen the "light" about him and, even if we split up, she'd never go back to him. I feel like this is just another page in their relationship cycle.

You two are currently in Marriage Counseling?

Yes, we are seeing the same Marriage Counselor we started seeing last year. At this point, we are going separately. The Counselor is really good, but she feels we have a strong "core" to our relationship and won't recommend a divorce. She's offered to have me see someone else if I don't agree, but so far she has helped me cope with what is going on in my life. Her focus is on us individually and doesn't even want to talk about the relationship at this point.

What extraordinary efforts did your wife agree to reassure that the affair was over (obviously, they weren't enough.....are they enough now?)

The last time, she "allowed" me to turn on call logging for outgoing calls on our home phone. That's about it. This time, she supported changing our home phone number to unpublished and also changing her cell phone number. Unfortunately, he still knows where we live and she still knows where he lives. I also have no way to prevent her from calling him from a pay phone (which is what they did this time around). The extraordinary efforts are a great concept, but I don’t think I really have control. If she has a weak moment, it would be very easy for her to contact him.

Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover

1. Honesty

I’d like to believe that she’s doing this now, but EVERYTHING I know about the affair she never volunteered to me. I caught her, intercepted e-mail, heard details that she later confirmed from the other man, read her letters to him, and badgered her for more information until she finally gave in. But, she’s never simply come up to me and told me something I didn’t already know.
I feel like there’s more details that I’ll never know. She claims that she doesn’t tell me these things because it will hurt me, but don’t I need to know everything before I could ever consider reconciliation?

2. Account for Your Time.

She agreed to keep a log a few days ago, but so far has not produced anything. Her defense is that she’s too overwhelmed with the house, kids, work (she works part time –mostly from home).

3. Spend As Much of Your Time with Your Husband as Possible.

At this point, I’M not ready for this step. I’ve moved out in order to focus on myself.
We have spent some quality time together, but that is usually short-lived. Mostly, this is due to my anger and resentment. Believe me, she wants nothing more than for us to go back to our “normal” life again. I do take the kids as often as I can, but I also need time for myself.

I’m definitely not ready for any of the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery. I did all of these things the last time around and only got burned again. I think those rules can actually be affair-enablers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I’m definitely not ready for any of the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery. I did all of these things the last time around and only got burned again. I think those rules can actually be affair-enablers."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please explain why you beleive this.

Tell her you need to know everything!!!! Every time you find another hidden lie, which sets back your trust of her back to the beginning. It may hurt for the short term but will help build trust over time. Tell her that if she can't tell you everything then she is risking ending her marriage. It is important to know everything. By knowing everything, even if it hurts, you eliminated all of the little secrets that WS and OM have together. This is one of those things that help breaks the bond between the WS and OM. The more you know, the dirtier they will feel. Another idea, would it be possible to move to another city, get a fresh start. (only an idea).

A response to Byanp:

I have to be honest, it feels good to hear your perspective on this situation. Almost everyone around me seems to be encouraging us to work through this. When they first found out last Fall, all of our close friends and family were shocked. They thought we had the perfect marriage.
So did I until this happened.

You’re right –she has become an expert liar. That’s one of my big fears when I think about moving forward.

To her credit, she has done some things differently this time:

1. She assures me that she will continue in Marriage Counseling for at least one year. Even if
things seem to be doing better.

2. She filed a police report against him for pushing her down & dragging her across our patio.
Unfortunately, it was several weeks after it happened so it is her word against his. To date, she hasn’t called to check on the charges –despite the fact that she told me she would.

3. She went to get tested for any time of STD. The last time I had to do that myself. The results were negative on everything (Thank God).

4. She has signed us up for Retrouvaille, which is a Catholic-based weekend session for marriages in trouble. We are supposed to go in a few weeks.

5. She has started doing nice things for me and tells me how good it feels to make me happy.

6. She tells me that the affair is over and God will be her witness of what she does from this point forward.

What happened in our house is something I’ll never forget. She tells me it was one or maybe two
times last year (she still claims not to remember things like this), but it doesn’t matter. It happened and I want nothing to do with that house anymore. It is unfortunate because it was our first and only house and we’ve put so much into it over the years. She doesn’t want to sell it. She simply thinks that I’ll be able to get over my bad feelings in time.

I worry that you are right about her reasons for wanting me. She even told me (and him) last year that she wouldn’t leave me because of the house, kids, and how she’d be viewed by her fairly strict Catholic family. I really question in she’s really doing it because she loves me. I am successful enough to let her stay home full time if she chooses. She works part-time and that helps us go on vacations, etc. I would have had no problem if she wanted to work full-time either. It was ALWAYS her choice.

I have agreed not to make any major steps in any direction for the time being. I thank you again for giving me another perspective on this situation.

I know you are afraid to try again. You have been burnt twice. I have also. But at some point, for your kids sake, you need to make the decisions that YES, I WILL TRY ONE LAST TIME. Let her know that this is it. Also tell her that it will take years for you to truly trust her again. Let her know that things will never be the way they were before because before, she was having an A. If it does not work out, you can at least tell your kids you tried. Kids from a two parent family are far better off then from a divorced home. You need to make the decision to try again and then start trying. It will be hard to put your heart out there again but you must. The rewards far outweight the risk and damage your WS could do. End the end you will be glad you did.

A response to T00MuchCoffeeMan:

quote:
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"I’m definitely not ready for any of the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery. I did all of these things the last time around and only got burned again. I think those rules can actually be affair-enablers."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please explain why you believe this.

I did all those things 10 months ago –please believe me. Not to promote another book in this forum, but I read Dr. Phil’s Relationship Rescue and it made so much sense. I accepted the fact that I may have somehow contributed to what happened and focused on showing her that our marriage could be better than it ever was.

Over the last 10 months, it HAS been better. I constantly reminded her how beautiful she is (and she is) and how happy I am with her. She returned the same feelings. She told me all the time how happy she was and how, if she could go back in time, she’d change everything. The irony is that she told me this at the same time she was doing it again.

Her sister told me several times how “love prevails”. She’d say, see? look at how true love gets you through bad times like that. That seemed to be the consensus of everyone around us. It really felt like we were going to get through this and be stronger as a result. What a joke.

When I left for a few days the last time this happened, she was fanatic. She couldn’t deal with the fact that she might lose me. The other man even confirmed this. So I came back and followed all the Rules. I feel this only gave her the reassurance that everything was okay again (with us), so she could re-start the other relationship. I honestly believe that what I gave to her only enabled her to continue the affair. I should have left and let it die a natural death the last time. Unfortunately, I loved her too much and didn’t want to lose her.

A response to hoping4best:

Like Bryanp, I appreciate another perspective on this situation. This is really the “harsh reality” I need to hear, but don’t want to hear.

Although I don’t want to admit that there’s no hope, I just don’t know how we can ever have a healthy relationship again.

I do not trust her, I don’t think she has any respect for me, and she’ll never know what I’m going through. In addition, this time I have a lot of anger and so much more resentment. How could that ever be healthy?

She’s very self-focused, but I feel like I’ve allowed her to be this way in our relationship. My Counselor thinks I’m co-dependent. I always thought it was normal “compromise” in a relationship.

I don’t think she’s patient enough to go through this. She even told me recently that I was “milking it” and there was something wrong with me that I was still upset after 10 months. Keep in mind that I was still upset from time to time about what happened last year. This was before I knew that it was still happening.

She’s in too much of a hurry for me to put back on my wedding ring, move home, and make everything normal again. She doesn’t understand why I need time to myself and accuses me of punishing her or trying to pick up other women (note: I’ve NEVER cheated on her).

On many occasions, I have to agree with your perspective.

A response to hubby:

I’ve told her 100’s of times that I need to know everything –no matter how bad. She continues to insist that I DO know everything, but things keep coming out. I told her that she can’t believe in her heart that she’s ready to fix our marriage if she still has things hidden from me. It would only allow her to lie again because she never really came clean.

I completely agree that every time I find out something new, it only sets us back. I wish she could understand all of this.

As sick as it sounds, I got more truth out of the other man in a 20 minute phone call than I’ve gotten from her since I first found out. Most everything he told me, she later confirmed.

I am very afraid to try again. When I first found out last year, she would promise to end it and then meet him the next day. I feel like I’ve given her 100’s of chances to do the right thing. I told her the last time that this was it. If she ever talked to him again that I would leave. Now, don’t I have to live up to my promise?

I think deep inside she knows that I won’t live up to my threats. I really believe that she thinks I’ll stay no matter what. That’s why I’m so confused and that’s why I posted this to all of you in this discussion forum.

I need to get some work done, so I’m logging off for a little while.

I will respond to everyone who responds to me. Thank you all for your feedback.

Hello,

I am in my office so I can make a few quick comments and again this is only my perspective.
It is clear that your wife cares very deeply for...herself. Her comments are unbelievable.
1) After continuing this affair and getting caught and continuing it again and have sex in your home her response to you is that you are milking it after only 10 months. This shows that she has no conception of your pain and anguish and it is all about her.
2)My guess is that if the OM had not hurt her in your home the chances that it would still be going on.
3)I am in communications and her response to you that she had sex in your home only once or twice and she can't remember indicates she is lying to you about this. You would know exactly how many times if it was once or twice that you screwed your lover in your bed in your home when your husband is gone. The fact that she hesitated with the answer and says she cannot remember indicates it was more than a couple of times. It is interesting that she got hurt by the OM at the home.
4) You indicate she only tells you what you know and you get more truth from the OM than her. She has become a very good liar to you since she has so much practice.
5) She admits she does not want to give up the lifestyle. She makes some effort because she understands the affair for now is over.
6)Telling you she likes the house and that you should get over it time. So what that she has sex with her lover in your home and in your bed indicates how self-absorbed she is about herself and shows how little respect she has for you.

When I read your letter it struck me that you were probably co-dependent. She has an ongoing affair and in your home and there were no consequences to her actions. Your did not make her move out for her to think about what she did.
She then continues to lie to your and continues the affair and gets hurt in your home with the OM and again there are no consequences to her actions again. She should have left for a time. Now she is telling you that you are milking it after 10 months and get over it and enjoy the house regardless that she continue her affair at the house.
The bottom line why she continued the affair the second was because she knew you would accept any of this disrspectful behavior toward you. Your messages indicate her lifestyle is a key and that she is quite cold inside toward you. Her comments toward you are shameful. As long as she knows you will put up with her not having to be honest with you then this is your life. What have been the consequences to her actions toward you? The answer is none which is why she can be so cold in her comments to you. I know this is harsh but this is the way I see it and it is sad that she perceives it this way but you have choices too my friend. She cannot respect you until you respect yourself. I wish you luck.

Bryanp,

Thanks once again for your honest feelings.

I wanted to clarify a few facts (based on what I know today).

I didn’t know about what happened in my house 10 months ago. When I found out this time, she told me a lot more about the entire affair. That’s when I found out about what happened in my house (after badgering her for about 20 minutes). She said it happened last year, 1-2 times, and it was in the basement –never in our bed. The majority of the encounters were at his apartment (which I believe because he’s single and was out of work for about 6 months). She also told me that it started a lot earlier than I knew before. When I ask her how many times, she tells me “a lot”. It used to be numbers (5 times last year, 4-5 times this year). I think “a lot” is much more than 10 –do you agree?

To make a long story short, the other man used to be a friend of ours. He was welcomed into our group, invited to all our parties and hung out with us (close friends & family) on a regular basis. This never stopped when the affair began. He had no problem facing me while doing my wife behind my back. I was nothing but nice to him. This should clarify what kind of man this really is.
He SHOULD have had the decency to stop hanging out and pretending to be a friend when you start doing someone else’s wife. I’ve never hated anyone in my life. I hate him with so much passion that I know I’ll never forgive him for what he did.

Two years ago, I accidentally received an e-mail from my wife that was meant for him. My wife admitted that they were e-mailing each other, but they were just friends. I asked her to stop and she blasted me in an e-mail to him (things like he doesn’t trust me, we did nothing wrong, etc.).
She assured me she wasn’t talking to him until the time I found out about the affair (1 year ago).

During this time, the other man continued to be included in our life. Last summer, he joined our friends and family on a vacation to Myrtle Beach. My wife swore that the sex began only after the vacation. She has sworn to this position since I found out about everything. Well, just about a week ago she confirmed that it actually started the winter before (which makes sense). Here are some examples of the e-mail that she sent to him in March 2001:

I may stay in love with you forever!!!
[unrecoverable part] …that it's so bad, but it's just extremely intense, the whole relationship,...

I could do you 24, 7!!! Would that be alright with you????? You'd be late for work every morning!!!

I discovered these e-mails a few months ago and when she was confronted, she said that nothing was happening at that time. She was upset with me and felt I was still living in the past. I agreed and dropped the entire subject. After all, we were moving forward and things were better now (right?)

I have a ton of e-mail and hand-written letters just like this. I KNOW how she felt, but she claims that she now knows that it wasn’t what she thought. According to her, it was more of an obsession than Love (which I agree).

I hate to continue to bash her because she really does have a good side. She’s become a different person, but now I’m starting to see the person I married again. She really does seem sincere (sometimes) about how horrible she now feels. She does seem committed to anything that will repair our marriage. She now admits being ashamed of what she did. I almost wish she had treated me as bad as last time because it would be an easy out for me. Despite the fact that she’s done all this damage, part of me still believes that this time is different.

I wanted to provide some additional information about something else I don’t think I can get through: the issue of sex.

In my opinion, our sex life wasn’t the greatest before the affair began. I always wanted more, but she wasn't that interested. Obviously, it was great when we first met but it tapered off after a few years. There were times that we’d go weeks without anything happening. I’d try to talk to her about it, but she didn’t want to discuss it. She is also very inhibited with me –she was never really open to trying new things (even minor things). But, I loved her and respected her feelings. I never pushed the issue because, when we did make love, it was usually spectacular.

I also know that she was raised fairly conservatively and had strong values –some qualities that I loved in her. Anyway, I wouldn’t have to worry about her having an affair if she’s not that interested in sex, right? I was dead wrong.

As we’ve gotten older, she actually began to relax her opinions slightly. I suppose the frequency picked up a little, too. That did nothing but reinforce that our marriage was just getting better with age.

The problem was that she always had the focus when we made love. I did everything in my power to make her feel good. Her needs always came first in my mind and my needs were always secondary. I was okay with that because I got so much pleasure out of her pleasure.

When I discovered the e-mail & notes, I was devastated. She was totally uninhibited with this other man (the complete opposite of me). She told him things and did things with him that she’d never do with me –and still hadn’t during the last 10 months. She’d tell me she was uncomfortable doing certain things, but I knew she had done them for him. Once again, I respected her and didn’t push the issue.

For example, before the affair, I wasn’t allowed to talk dirty to her. The e-mail and conversations where nothing but that. She admitted what they talked about and how it turned her on to hear that from him. She also told me that it felt better with him. She told me that she liked certain things that he did –things that I was never allowed to do.

Our Councilor has even suggested that she’s a sex addict --which just tears me apart. How can she be that way with another man, but be so reserved with her husband of 12 years?

Believe me, I tried to offer options to improve our sex life the last 10 months. She just wasn’t interested.

So, not only do I have to deal with the lies and deception of her loving another man, but I also have to deal with the things she gave to him, but can never give to me.

BA the four rules for a succesful marriage cannot be succesful if only one spouse(You) is following them. As proof of this, if your WW had followed faithfully the rule of honesty by itself, her affair would never have reignited.

The rules didn't enable your W's affair, it was her unwilligness to follow them (and MAYBE your unwillingness in not insisting her to follow them as a non negotiable condition for you to remain married to her) that was responsible for her to betray you again.

Your last post regarding your sexual life reminded me of stunned_dad's and silverthorn's stories (both are betrayed husbands). In their cases, both of their wives had been sexually abused when they were young, and practically the same things you said about your W (how she was a willing sexual participant) they said about their WW's as well. I'll see if I can get them to post to you.

BA :

Wow, what a story. I am sorry for your pain. You sound very logical about all of this and it seems that you have taken some steps to get a handle on it all.
I think you made a good first move with getting out of the house for a time. It certainly demonstrates that you are willing to let her see that there are consequences. It is clear by her ability to deceive you twice in such a complete and thorough way.
I think you have some decisions to make soon. But, first I would continue on the path you are on. I wouldn't make it easy for her at all. Make her earn it. Every bit. I am not saying to be cruel or difficult but, she has a lot of proving to do.
And, cover your bases and do not stay out of the house too long.

If you discover that she is again lying, get back into the house and get her out.
Trust me, when I say that when my wife started her affair, I plan A'd her for almost three months,then asked her to leave. Then Plan B'd her for two more.

While my wife had alcohol abuse issues to me it was no diiferent than you.
What I am saying is cover your legal bases and watch your finances like a hawk.
I will be watching to see how things go for you.
Best of everything to you.

I really feel for you. Everytime you write a message you add something. You certainly have every right to be angry with the OM but again the behavior of your wife is unreal. Here she is having sex with this guy and he is allowed to share a vacation with you and your wife. I am sorry but for your wife to allow this indicates that she got some sort of perverse pleasure in this entire situation knowing that she is having a sexual affair with a friend of yours who joins you two on vacation. What kind of a person would do this to their spouse unless they got some sort of perverse thrill in your humiliation? It just seems to me that she was just shoving the affair under your nose in such a way that the two of them must have a good time thinking about this.
How can you possibly believe anything she tells you?
I think you are a kind and forgiving man and I do hope whatever you want happens for you. It just seems to me that she perceives your kindness as weakness and exploits it to her advantage. Make sure you keep your guard up. It is a shame what you have had to put up with and deal with. Her moral compass is so broken. Please establish boundaries and at least contact an attorney to understand your options in the future. Allow her to understand this so she will realize this is no longer a game on how much she can get away with on you. How do you emotionally and physically cope with this and establish an intimate relationship with her now? I am just curious.
I wish you the best.

Betrayed_again,

God, what a sordid mess. Have you told anyone about your wife’s affair? Have you told her parents, her siblings, her friends? Have you told your family? If you haven’t, then you should think about doing so. Get this rotten mess exposed to the light of day.

I would put one of those machines that record all conversations on your home phone, hide it and don’t tell her it is there. Get Spyware for the computer. If you can afford it, hire a PI to follow her for a while. Demand that she accounts for all her time, where she went, with whom she spoke, etc. Get all the facts of her life and use what you find to make your future decisions.

Think about selling the house. It may just become a huge trigger for you. Do you want to go down to the basement and hang out? If she says they only did it a few times in your house, the “few” number probably is just the exponent variable in a power function, as in Z^x.

Protect yourself emotionally and use the information that you gather to help steer your future. I’m so sorry this is in your life.

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Hereandnow ]</small>