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HI Usedfor 26 years.

Hey how are you? I didn't get the email you were senidng. Post to you soon.

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I sent you a email to the address you posted

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USedfor26yrs,

I went back and looked again and the email didn't come through. Was it sent to Firsmtr@aol.com? When you have time would you send it again? I would like to hear from you. How are you doing?

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Hi Starf*sh.

Please forgive my late reply. The last 2 days have been hectic. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

From reviewing your post I decided I need a plan.

RE: NC Letter
I would like for the NC letter to be sent. But I really need help to figure out how to address it. Also I would like to make sure there is nothing that is discouraging its effectiveness.
No C. Will talk to WS about this soon (I'm trying to get ducks in a row).

RE: MC
Want to start this, but am afraid that the MC wouldn't be marriage positive. or Marriagebuilders supportive. To be honest I don't want to have traditional counseling that may set us back more than help. I've heard some horror stories.

RE: Policy of Honesty and WS feeligns about A
Yes he does want to put betrayal of A behind him.
But I know we need to talk about PORH. Just want to find way to address it without loosing his interest or annoying him. Haven't spoken to him about steps to rebuild. How do you get through when he feels everything is right back to normal.

Re:Cell phone number
No he hasn't changed it. But I am willing to request that he does. I have access to most accounts but I think isn't sharing something.

A was somewhat work related. Had a recent transfer another area which I think has helped.

It is difficult for us to schedule 15 hours of undivided attention. For the holidays we will be able to because of time off.

Ok Starf*sh here is what I think I should do

>Before I do anything, get my mind ready to hear and deal with him.

>Continue depositing love units as possible-NO LBing. Even though lately he has been fussy. OOOhhh annoying. Wants me to do everything likes he wants. Then when I ask him to it the way he wants he says no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

>Try to approach him about where he stands regarding A.

>Address any concerns about it or if any contact has occured.

>Simplify PORH and share it, then discuss things I've discovered.

>I should inqure as well about Undivided atten.

>Want to request NC be sent, but I'm still shaky on this one.

Then have sessions after sessions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What do you think?

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Free....I like your initial plan and I think it's a really great start. What's wrong with MB based phone counseling....either with the Harleys or with cerri?

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I would like to do that except that I think it would be very expensive. Would you know how i might get a quote? Thank you.

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THanks.

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freetobe I fw you another email still no answer

in the subject line I put Hi freetobe
I think you are overlooking it because of the
company name

I will fw you one more right now
the beginning of my email starts with a c

please find it

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Hi Usedfor26yrs. You are right, I saw something that I thought was an advertisment so I overlooked it. I'll recheck.

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Ok Used,
I looked again. The mail that I thought might have been from you was actually an advertisment.
I don't know why it didn't come through. Try this address, when convient for you. vic_030@lycos.com . Sorry for the inconvience. How are you?

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I am doing OK how are you ?

I sent you a email just now

I gave H a card with a lovenote in it this week
with a new pen he needed

He came home today at lunch what fun we had.

So we are alright right now

Hope you are OK

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Starfish, I am emailing you. Some extremely unusual things have taken place since I've last posted. I need your input w/o the possibility of my WH lurking around. Thanks!

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Morning Starf*sh.

I have a couple questions for you.

1. Do you know where I can find the article about affairs being like puzzles?

2. WS and I are doing good. However sometimes he is a litle fussy. I think that some of the things that were a problem for us before the A are coming up again. I would like for communication to be better with us. Especially beng that I want to dicuss POJA and PORH with him. I did lightly the other day.

We have time to be together for now. But his work schedule is very busy and our time together will be limited after the holidays. Is it best to discuss them fully with him now? Also the 180 list by Michelle Weiner Davis. I've been thinking gbaout using some of her tactics to try to get WS more interested in me again. I started using some small steps on it and noticed that with just those small changes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> he started changing (in a good way)? Your thoughts? I'm posing this to awed18 also. Thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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free....hi there. Here is the letter by Joseph to his wife. It is perhaps the thing about the puzzles you were looking for:

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com023.html

The letter is down the page.

Also, I wanted to give you some additional information that relates to this subject:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> During the past 20 years, the most prevalent issue people have asked me about is "talking about the affair." That's because the person who has had an affair would like to "put it behind and go on" without talking about it—while the spouse has an intense "need to know" in order to try to make some kind of sense out of what has happened before they are able to "go on").
The needs of the two people are very different, and the reasons for their needs are different as well. Here's a brief overview of "why the person who had an affair doesn't want to talk" and "why the spouse wants to talk and get answers."
Why the person who had an affair doesn't want to talk
(Each of these is discussed in detail in my book, The Monogamy Myth.)
--Belief in the Basic Code of Silence:
("Never tell; if questioned, deny it; if caught, say as little as possible")
--Feelings of guilt and shame
--Protecting their partner's feelings
--Avoiding a showdown
--May want to continue having affairs
Why the spouse wants to talk and get answers
--If you have no opportunity to get information to try to "make sense" of something that has turned your life upside down, you have no way of getting beyond it.
--If someone knows something you want to know (but won't tell you), it makes you feel like a child, creating an imbalance of power with no sense of fairness or equality in the relationship.
--If you can't trust your spouse to be honest about the past, how can you trust they'll be honest in the future.
--"Not knowing" is worse than any particular facts—because the imagination is worst of all.
--The willingness to answer questions shows a commitment to doing what's necessary to rebuild trust. (This willingness is even more important than the answers per se.)
It's reasonable to want answers
The bottom line is that it's perfectly reasonable for a person to want to talk and get answers to their questions. Each person needs to decide for themselves the timing of when/what/how much they want to know (and no one should be forced to hear things they don't want to hear), but if they do want to hear details, they deserve to have their questions answered.
I had been aware of the benefits of talking from all the years of hearing the stories of people who shared with me. The results of my Survey on Affairs confirmed that getting answers to questions and thoroughly discussing the details of the affair increase the likelihood of maintaining and rebuilding the marriage and increase the likelihood of recovering from a spouse's affair. For more, see my Survey Report.
While it's possible to stay married without getting answers to questions, it's likely to be a deadened, meaningless marriage. Answering questions is usually an essential part of being able to rebuild trust and build a strong relationship for the future. Since most people would prefer a "meaningful" marriage to a "deadened, meaningless" one, having their questions answered makes a big difference.
Most of the time when you can't get answers to your questions, your partner is hoping that at some point you'll give up and that this will just "go away" and no longer be an issue. It sometimes helps to make it clear that this will always be an issue—whether or not it is dropped as a topic of conversation. (While obviously, no one can "make" their spouse talk, they can make it clear that this will always remain as a barrier between them.)
It's unreasonable for the person who had an affair to expect their spouse to suffer alone in silence—"pretending" they're OK when they're not. It's like ignoring the elephant in the room or burying your head in the sand. And it won't go away just because everyone may wish it would go away. You can't just bury it—because that's actually burying it alive, and it will come back to haunt you and to be a barrier to ever fully recovering.
As I've said before, I've never known anyone (including myself) who completely recovered from the emotional impact of a spouse's affair in less than 2 years—even with the best efforts by everyone concerned. However, let me clarify the whole idea of discussing an affair. It's not that it needs to be discussed "over and over again;" it's that it needs to be discussed enough to feel there's some understanding of what happened, what can be learned from it, and how to proceed in the future. In fact, going "over and over" the same thing is not the point of talking in the first place. The importance of talking is for the sake of "moving the process along."
Among those people (including myself) who have most thoroughly recovered from a spouse's affair, the key is talking through the whole situation for as long as necessary to reach a point of putting it in perspective where this experience no longer has the power to prevent you from going on with your life. The goal is not to get to the point of "never talking about it." (That does not represent recovery.) The goal is to get to the point where you can talk about it—without the talking triggering the old painful feelings.
Here's the way I described my experience in Beyond Affairs:
"We spent many, many hours talking about our feelings and trying to get a handle on the whole experience. Little by little it got easier to handle the emotional aspects too... Finally, one day the pain just slipped away when I didn't even notice."
Our responsibility in "reinforcing honesty"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The 180 list is great in a situation where one spouse seems to view any kind of relationship talks or "I love you's" as threatening. Is that the situation you are in?

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Thanks Star...that was indeed the "puzzle letter" I had recommended to freetobe (I'd forgotten its original title!)...awed

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Thank you Starf*sh and awed18 for the puzzle info.

I want you opinion about using the 180 list.

Yes, my WS does have problems with I love yous. He will allow you to tell him all day. He won't necessarily reply.

How do you feel about using the Policy of Radical Honety and Joint Agreement with this list. Some items may not apply. But others can be used. Just want your opinion. Thank you.

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Hi St*rfish

I haven't posted to you in a really long time so I hope not to offend you by posting so late.

I have a problem with my recovery situation. It is like my H and I are in a standstill. The A ended with him and OW about 11/03. SInce then things were going ok, kinda rocky though.

Well the holidays proably helped that some. However H was suppose to have been in withdrawal during this time in which he was fussy and insulting at times.

December came along and things were somewhat the same. During this time I tried to discuss what I had laid out that I would discuss with him. PORH and POJA. That has been very diffcult. many times it just became a little discussing it for the purpose of ending the discussing and I guess gettng off his back. But in areas where I thought he was making progress he seemed to slip back in. Such as not talking to other females while we are working at trust issues and making decisions independent of me, and taking responsibility for his part in the A. I think he still sees it like," well you didn't do and that caused me to".

Now don't get me wrong he has been good in some things but trying to communicate with him about the A and help him understand policies and the reason for them seems very difficult. Also as the time has past I have become weary of trying to get him to understand and quite frankly intolerant of working with him.

I wonder why do I feel this way when this is what I wanted all along. Well I came up with something that may provided some answers.

Brief history: My H and tried this R a while ago and I messed up at first. Well we didn't see each other as in a R for a long time. However we cont'd to like go places together and go out anf so on. Then we decided (or more like I) to see each other again. I didn't know it at the time but he was in the A the whole time we were together up until it broke off 11/03. Then foolishly I felt that we should get married. I feel I was doing this to try to keep her(OW) off his tracks not realizing at that point my H wasn't worth keeping ( as you picked up on he met 0 conditions for me to marry him)and he had a lot of making up to do.

Well now we're in Feb and I've lost my motivation to keep trying. I was warned not to rush into this, but I did anyway. Now I'm not sure what to do. Dr Harley talks about love being the motivation to save a marriage. What about when people are starting a M with a love deficit and no boundaries. If you have any insight would you please share.

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^

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Freetobe,

How are you doing? I'm a bit worried about you.

J.

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