She told me on saturday, 5 long days ago. an affair that happened 2 years ago, 9 days before our ten year anniversary 12 days before a honeymoon cruise (since we never had a honeymoon)I laugh, I cry , I stare into space all in an obscenely short amount of time only to repeat this over and over. I do not eat, it holds no flavor, I drink but my thirst never goes away. At work im an empty shell of who I was, I was a laughing genial 32 year old a little over weight and turning a little gray up top, I miss my old self but know that no matter what something has changed and will never be the same again. I used to have all the answers and could figure an answer to any problem that came my way , now I seem a 21 year old who knows nothing of the world and have been struck dumb by the sheer scope of the world I foolishly thought I could conquer IN but a few years. The pain is intense but at that the pain is the only thing that I know is real anymore. How can you believe anyone when they im sorry this happened , but i love you?

cliff... welcome to Marriage Builders. We are all sorry that you find yourself here, but you will find there is no better place to be. You will find tons of sage advice and plenty of solace to go along with it.

First and foremost, explore the MarriageBuilder's web site and read, read, read. Go out today, and purchase a copy of Surviving an Affair, by Willard Harley. This is a pro-marriage website, and you will find more support here than you can believe.

It is most important that you learn of Plan A and Plan B, that you understand the FOG a wayward spouse live in, and how withdrawal will affect your WS (wayward spouse) for some time. In addition you need to understand what LoveBuster's (LB) are, and how they may stifle your efforts to get though this.

Now that you have the information, it is YOUR decision as to what you want to do with it. If you read through the posts here, you will find that many want to rebuild their marriages, and some have success, and some don't. Much of that is up to YOU, and YOUR committment to following the principles on this site.

Your life will never be the same. You have reached a point where all you knew and believed in is gone. You now have the opportunity to begin anew, first with yourself, as you will learn in Plan A, and how to deal with the two emotional roller coasters now present in your life. You and WS.

If you want to save your marriage, you have come to the right place.

Good luck!!

Hi Cliff, sorry you are here and at the same time, welcome! You have come to the right place.

I have only been here for a little over two months and I am struggling big time in my marriage but I can tell you for sure that you will find plenty of people here that have great advice for you and more important of all understand exactly how you feel.

"I am sorry this happened, but I LOVE you"!...those were the exact words that came out of my husband's mouth...and just like you the first question that came out of my mouth was "How can you say you love me and have done something like this?"...I have learned through lots of reading and experiences of other people on this site that as hard to believe as it is for us, they do love us and when they get involved in the affair it is NOT about us, it is about them...

If you are both willing to work this out your marriage has hope. Talk to your wife, listen to what she has to say and be patient.

As my mom has told me a thousand times...eventhought now you think everything is falling appart only time will tell where you will end up...

My prayers are with you...best of luck. Hang in there and take care of yourself.

Cliff,

Please do some reading here, I think it will help. What you are feeling and going through seems to be pretty normal.

I have a few questions for you.

1. Why did she decide to tell you?

2. Why did she say she had the affair?

3. How long did the affair last?

4. Does she have any contact with this guy now, via work or some other commitment?

5. Is she remorsefull?

6. Do you understand she has done you a huge favor by telling you? I know you don't feel that now, but trust me and others on this, she has.

Yes, it does seem that wayward spouses (WS) post here a lot and state the love their betrayed spouse (BS) AND they had the affair. Often they post that while the affair was going on they did love them, but now that it is over they see what they stood to lose. I would NOT be surprised that your W loves you, more now than ever. She has looked over the abyss and you ARE her first choice.

I don't mean to imply that you don't hurt. You will for a long time, but realize that there are very positive signs in your W's behavior. Don't make any major decisions for 6 months or more and do your homework here. I think you will see that while you have indeed lost irreplacable things in your marriage, you can find things that were never their before. It is subtle and it takes awhile to see these new things, but give it a go and see what you find.

Keep posting, keep reading, and keep your head up. It will get better.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you for your replies, I will definetly go out and get that book. since my last post she came to me and we talked for hours.... it was a hard talk of the A and the OM (is that right?) but at the end alot of heart felt tears were shed by both of us and today seems a little brighter than the day before.....

As to why she had the A she had felt that I was wrapped in my work at the time (going for promotion) so she started at first just a friendly talking relationship which culminated in a one night at a local motel. the OM doesnt work with her and she says there has been no contact after that one night. trouble is how does one trust what is said after all trust has been lost? I want to believe, the look in her eyes when she says I want you forever is something i havent seen in awhile.... we have many things to still talk about but I pray our new start will build a stronger marriage... A long way to go but worth it in the long run..... thank you for the replies I hope to post back with more positive results ...

cliff....

Glad to hear you are not at a meltdown point. You need to realize that these feeling will not go away instantly, and there will be one primary factor necessary for healing... TIME.

These thoughts you are having are natural and normal, so don't think of them otherwise. Trust is a very difficult commodity to restore. I am going through that very process right now.

You have positive things going for you right now, so capitalize on those positives. Apologies and remorse from the WW are great signs, and there are many BS's here that would love to see those signs flow from the WS. Sometimes it doesn't seem to work that way.

The other book you should read is His Needs/Her Needs when you finish Surviving an Affair. Between these books you will have a roadmap to recovery.

Glad you seem to be making progress!!!

Good luck!

Tell the OM's wife, if he has one. Your wife will resist this idea, but this is one thing you should do anyway. You would want to know in her position, wouldn't you? Beyond that: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

She wont tell me the who of it, saying only that "I dont know him and never will"

Instead I got the story of the night which is not what i wanted to hear at all cause It doesnt help the mind out when all you see is your wife undressing for another man in a hotel room. The tale of that night is that after work she went to the hotel and waited for him(after buying a bottle of tequila and coke) , then hours later he finally showed up (she drank , so she said to get her courage up to actually go thru and sleep with him) did what he wanted too and then left, she said she cried all night after that and wanted to call me to come pick her up (which i would have) but she was so ashamed .......... seems like a movie from the Lifetime network.
I did ask last night that one day she would tell me about how they met and what his name is, at least that way i hope i can stop thinking about a guy whom ive never met and now pretty much would love to rip him limb from limb for treating my wife like a piece of garbage (and that is the weirdest thought of all. I dont feel that way because he slept with her but because he didnt even have enough respect to stay with her), to him all she was , was a notch on a bed post at least it seems that way.

she wrote me a letter in a valentins card:
"All i want to do is spend the rest of my life with you. I know I cannot erase pain that you may feel, but I can give you all the love I have in my heart. I am eternally yours. I cannot put into words the remorse I feel for how I hurt you. All I know is that when you hurt- I hurt.Sweetheart I cannot stress how sorry I am, but maybe I can stress how much I do love you.So everyday for the rest of our lives I vow to make you the happiest man on earth."

I got that card on Fri. the 13th and i actually slept with it right beside me.

Its is hard and I do think alot of negative things sometimes but when I do I read that letter and somehow it beats back the thoughts and for a moment or too I feel calm again.......

Cliff,

Why did she tell you about this, IF she isn't going to tell you about it? What is her reasoning here?

Second, she still has NOT faced what she has done </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I cannot erase pain that you may feel, but I can give you all the love I have in my heart. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"May feel"??? I think she needs to understand just giving you love in her heart is NOT all you need. You need to receive from her the care and love in her mind, and that means she needs to put your mind to rest by answering your questions.

Again, why did she decide to tell you this?

God Bless,

JL

I actually put it together that she may have slept with soem one else days after it happened 6-19-01 was the date funny how a date will stay with you. I confronted her with it and she denied it.

we separated for a while after this and still she wouldnt tell the truth.

we got back together after 3 months and have gradually come together as a family again , but from time to time that day did haunt me and I would get depressed. so on Saturday 9 days ago she came from work and i was just sitting on the bed dwelling on it. she asked "what was wrong" and I answered "that from time to time that summer comes to mind, and I will always wonder about it" she sat up looked me in the eyes and said "cliff, I had an affair. im sorry and i love but i did it and it was the biggest mistake in my life. I realized after that day how much i love you and i wanna spend the rest of my life with you . you are a good husband and a good father." she said it had been weighing on her mind and she could feel it like a wall between us keeping me from trusting her . so thats why she told me ....

now im stuck with a phrase "ignorance is bliss" running thru my mind.

she says telling me who it was and how they met wouldnt change the fact that it did happen. I know complete honesty is what is needed but i did get her to agree that someday she will tell me even if its not today or tommorrow I will know at some point.

I gave her a massage last night and a bath, its something I havent done for her in a while , then she gave me a massage. I have never in ten years of marriage felt closer to her and have commited myself to always talking with her every day no matter how busy it is no matter how tired i am . and i go every where with her and she loves it, loves us being together. we had a couple over that is soon to be married ,for valentines day. my wife and i sat in a loveseat in each others lap while they (the other couple) sat on a couch on opposite ends I reflect that if someone came into the room they would guess us as the ones about to be married and not the others. I guess inalot of ways this is a beginning of our new "Marriage"
I look back to a couple of weeks ago and i tell you this , today i hurt and tommorrow I will hurt but it will be less, for all the pain i would not go back to always wondering about my wife and not trusting her, for now we are a couple again with lots to talk about to be sure but acouple nonethe less with a lifetime ahead of us

i found "his needs /her needs for parents"
Is this book any different from the original "his needs/her needs"? I also ordered the "survivng an affair"

thanks to everyone for their help

increasingly I am becoming more and more angry at the OM ,I get very quiet and I dont like feeling like this, I know i should just be angry with her and i was but he had to have known she was married, in fact I surmise that he also was married due to the clandestine manner of their meeting.(she went to a hotel and waited for hours for him, if only I had called her cell phone that night maybe this would have never happened) Is this normal to feel like this about someone you dont even know? and please can soem one tell me some good ways to rid myself of these feelings?

cliff....

You are going to have so many thoughts jumping into your head out of now where for weeks to come. The important part is what you do with those thoughts.

Some will make you madder than a wet hornet. Some will make you feel like there's something you could have done. Some will make you feel sad, some depressed, some empty.... and on and on.

Your emotions will run a roller coaster, the likes of which I doubt you've ever been on before.

The key to getting through all of this is what you do with those emotions. Turn the anger into energy to do Plan A, focus on Marriage Builder's philosophy, get into counseling and learn how to make yourself a better person for the marriage. Learn how to forgive and learn how to deal with all the emotions your W will be going through as well.

Make sure all your conversations with your W are "safe", no lovebusters, no disrespectful judgements, and teach her that it is safe for her to be honest with you. Give her some direction as to how "much" detail you are willing to endure, as noted in previous posts.

People survive these things. People with a tried and true plan, like Marriage Builders, are more likely to survive, because it is a plan, a roadmap, if you will, to follow. And best of all, it covers most facets of what you will be facing.

Let your emotions come as they will, but use sharp judgement on how you control them, so that your pathway to recovery is not littered with damaging actions you'd have been better off not to have taken.

And post here, vent here, ask here. Many people have been through this same experience, or similar to yours. All will offer insight as to what might be best for you. Listen and learn. Make you a better you for your marriage.

Best wishes...

I am in a plan A where im trying to show her how good we could be, she absolutely loves the time im spending with her! its amazing what you notice when you look real hard at what you havent been doing well at all.. but at times i get quiet and she will ask whats wrong cause im afraid I wear my heart on my sleeve so to speak, and after being married 10 years she knows me too well.
I dont want to tell her a vision of her and the guy in the hotel room just came to me out of the blue cause i want to avoid fighting about it, but she always pushes to know what it is and i tell her then she gets queit and says "im sorry hunny" but at no time do i think im better off some where else, I love her and she loves me(else she would have left long ago) I did pick HISNEEDS/HER NEEDS FOR PARENTS but unfortunately "surivivng an affair" was not available. I did not tell her i ordered it (hopefully will be here in a couple of days) but when she perused the HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS book she saw a color picture of "SURVIVING AN AFFAIR" she actually said we should order it....
after reading thruogh alot of mail here i surmise my situation is a little different being as it was 2 years almost that it happened and after the A my W said she realised what a great thing we had and was a "basketcase" for weeks after becasue she thought if i found out about the A i would leave. I guessed it had happened but never could prove it and she denied and denied until basically i believed her.
plan A is ongoing and we r both very touchy feely with each other, we have made love tentatively at first but now we are back to a SF side of the relationship.
The only thing Im stuck on and I fully admit it, is the PA she had, her sharing what I thought as a gift so precious that I was her only..... how does it go? "pride goeth before the fall?" well my pride is gone at least in that area, and its up to me to stand up and forget about it and go on with my marriage to a wonderful woman and mother who made a mistake
tears are running down my face as i remember all the good times we have had that are threatened by my ego, of wondering when we are together does she think of him? does she long for him? it is sure madness to think as i do, because in it all she stayed with me , and that is the improtant part and nothing else should matter.Right?
on moday the 23rd we leave for a 5 day mexican cruise that was to be our honeymoon/ ten year anniversary gift to each other. I hope to heal alot on this cruise being as we will have each others undivided attention for 5 whole days....
thank you shattered dreams for your reply

my prayers are with you
cliff

Clif,

You are NOT that unique. There have been plenty of posters that have found out years after the A was over. You are doing very well and it sounds as if your W is doing all she can. Sadly, she cannot do much to heal you. That is YOUR journey, she can join you on it, but it is YOURs to deal with.

I would strongly recommend you print out you last post and give it to her. She will understand better where you are and what you are struggling with. Again, she cannot heal you, but it will help her understand, that your struggles are with yourself as much as with her. That is normal.

You mentioned that you cannot wait to forget about this. I would like to suggest to you that you NEVER forget this. For give her yes, forget NO! You both need to remember this event, but not in a painful way, but in a way that guides both of your lives from now on. As time moves on many posters have commented that the "feelings" faded, although the memory stayed. Gradually, they came to a state that they could remember the event, but there were no longer any feelings attached to it.

I am asking you to remember this not to keep you in pain but so that you know what can happen if you do not value your marriage. Your W should do the same. She has hurt you deeply, and from what you have said she is accutely aware of this. It seems she does love you, and it seems that she does have a conscience, she told you of the affair.

One, last thing. Why are you in Plan A? It really is part of a plan to end an A. It has a component to it that is NOT healthy for a long term marriage. That component is that you put your "taker" on hold and become for a short time a full time "giver". In the long run that is not good for the marriage, hence Plan A is a short term attempt for the BS to try and convince the WS to end the A.

Your W ended her A two years ago. If you are using the plan A construct to evaluate your role in the marriage before the A and the intervening two years that is good. If you are using it to evaluate where you two have failed to meet each others needs that is good. If you are using "radical honesty" and the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA, that is good. However, these last two things are NOT plan A things as much as they are "negotiating" tools so that you meet what Harley calls the 4 rules for a healthy marriage.

Cliff, you are doing well. You express yourself and your struggles well in writing. I really do think she needs to see what you are struggling with and your last post did an excellent job of that, show it to her. Talk with her about it, don't hide from your feelings, but don't use them to beat her up. Avoid the word "BUT" in your conversations, and explain where you struggle.

She had a reason for telling you what she did. My guess is that she wanted to save your marriage and make it even better than it has been. Join her in that endeavor and you will very likely be well rewarded. You know the old saying: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The best revenge is a life well lived.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you are not thinking of revenge in the conventional sense, but I would like to offer you an outlet to consider. Make your marriage so good that she will always wonder "What the heck was I thinking". Make it so good that she will deeply regret not opening up to you about her feelings on the marriage YEARS ago. Make it so good that YOU will never want to leave it.

You have a lot of control of this situation Cliff. I know you feel bad now, and you will need time and patience to heal the wounds, but do your best to be proactive, and think you will find that the images will fade faster, the smile on your W's face will be wider and more sincere, and YOU my friend will be much happier.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Congratulations on your 10th Anniv. and really enjoy the cruise. You can do this, and I suspect you will do this.

thank you for your kind words

Well Ive decided something, on the saturday we come back from our cruise my wife is supposed to go to a bachelorette party cause she is the maid of honor for the bride. they are supposed to spend the night at a hotel where they are going. first off the thought of my wife spending the night at a hotel froze me to the core, I actually asked her to not spend the night and let me come get get her when everything was said and done, and she said yes because she didnt want me to feel uncomfortablewith her spending the night away from her.
I said yesterday "no, i want you to go your best freind is getting married you need to go adn have a good time with her, it only happens once (hopefully) I need to start trusting you and now is a good way to show it". it still makes me nervous but I want to show her some trust.... some moving forward.....
any way do you think i did right?
cliff

still I do not know who she slept with, Im increasingly obsessing with this idea running thru my head that he is closer to her than she has let on. cause she Wont tell me who it is after 3 weeks. Am I wrong to push her on this? should I just wait till she wants to tell me?
Im scared that she works with him and that at the slightest mistep or bump in our marriage she'll be off again with him.... all i have concluded is that the guy is married and older than her...

Hello,

It is just my opinion but something is not right here. You are trusting her enough to stay all night at the hotel but she does not have enough trust in you to tell you who the OM is? What is wrong with this picture. She is still disrespecting you by not being honest with you.

How awful everytime you see another man you have to wonder is this the guy? I suspect it was with a man she works with. She is protecting him over respecting you. You may think you are in recovery but if she refuses to be honest with you about this then she is sending you a clear message about you and her feelings for protection about this OM. I think this is a very bad sign. Marriagebuilders believes in radical honesty about affairs and she is still keeping secrets from you. It seems she is being rewarded by you for not telling you the whole truth. I would be very suspicious again that this guy works with her. You and her will never be in true recovery as long as she is allowed to keep this from you.
It is horribly disrespectful to you. Doesen't this seem obvious to you? I wish you luck.

Hi Cliff-

There are several things here.

First don't push yourself to do too much too soon as a BS. There is a tendency to do things before one is ready, thinking that if you push YOUR recovery along you'll heal faster. Most of the time those that do crash and burn.

Your healing will take the time that it takes. It hurts, it sucks and you are on a rollercoaster, but that's what it will be for a while.

13 years ago I was the WW. . . I've gotten to see this from both sides .. lucky me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are pushing yourself to trust your wife when she has not totally come clean with you. IMO you will not be able to do this until she does, which includes telling you who the OM was. And until she comes totally clean you probably won't be able to really heal or repair.

Why?

First she is showing protection for OM instead of protection and respect for you. She may say that it won't do any good and it may hurt you more -- but the ball now is in your court.

It will do good because once you know who it is you can judge whether there has been continued contact -- it will help you in rebuilding that trust.

It will do you good because you will know she is in your camp and not protecting someone else. And you will get a better measure of where her heart is -- at this point she can talk all she wants but it's her actions now that speak louder than her words. Her refusal to tell you is screaming contridiction to her words.

You have no reason to trust her now, and until she comes totally clean, you have no reason to trust her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> trouble is how does one trust what is said after all trust has been lost? I want to believe, the look in her eyes when she says I want you forever is something i havent seen in awhile.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her actions need to back this up. Trust will come back but only through time and proving oneself worthy of having trust reinvested in them.
No, it may not be full trust, that's gone -- but she also lost the trust one normally give a spouse without question. Her actions did that.
But some form of trust can come back.

You also have an added demension .. she didn't tell you for how many years? So how do you feel about the time from her affair until the time you were told? Many spouses feel like they were living a lie - you have additional trust and respect issues to deal with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am becoming more and more angry at the OM ,I get very quiet and I dont like feeling like this, I know i should just be angry with her and i was but he had to have known she was married, in fact I surmise that he also was married due to the clandestine manner of their meeting.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Becoming more angry with the OP than the WS is actually normal -- it's a defense mechanism and many psychologist use that so a BS can push enough pain away from the WS so that they can work on the relationship.

As long as it does not manifest itself into physical harm to the OP, stalking, distruction of OPs property, physical harm to your wife, yourself or anyone else -- it's okay and normal.

Being angry and being hurt isn't an LB .. letting the WS see it isn't an LB (you'r not in plan A) -- how you express your anger and pain can be.

Vent here if need be so you don't vent at your wife... label the subject line "vent"

This is an "E" ticket ride.

way2