cliff...

Glad to see you are still around. Also glad to see you are getting Surviving an Affair. Until you have the book, spend some time exploring this MB website, and learn what you can.

The others that have said "don't push too hard" are right. Trust this information. As you read about MB you will learn about many things, and one of them is the peculiar way a WS feels about sharing information with the BS. To the BS, it's a simple matter, spill your guts, tell it all and tell it NOW!

To the WS, it simply doesn't reason that way. They are filled with many emotions and reactions and sometimes have no idea how to express their own feelings about what they have done. It is a combination of guilt, remorse, fear, and believe it or not, they rationalize that they shouldn't tell you so as not to hurt you any more.

Truth is, both parties want the whole damn thing to just dissapear and go away, but the WS often clings to that impossible hope longer than the BS can handle it.

You might consider reading the SAA book together with your W, and as the book addresses Radical Honesty, that might be a good time to calmly express your feelings to her about needing to know more. Give her a safe and protected environment to share her feelings, and don't give in to LoveBusters or Disrespectful Judgements.

One good description is that you are both working on a jigsaw puzzle, and she has all the pieces, plus the box, so she is aware of the whole picture. At the same time, you only have some of the pieces, and no box with a picture to work from, so there is great difficulty in making the picture whole. I don't know if I explained that well, hopefully you get the gist.

Sounds like you are in a good position to make a better and healthier marriage. Stay focused and energized toward that goal.

SD

thank you i understand , barnes and noble called while i was away on my anniversary cruise so im getting it (SAA) today after work .
again thank you all,
cliff

Cliff,

Our D-Days are pretty close and so I follow your story closely. I was reading "How Can We Light A fire When the Kids Are Driving Us Crazy" (Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself, just trying to prepare for the future while WH is trying to navigate through the fog). Anyway I thought this exerpt was helpful:

"If being too tired is one of your excuses for not spending time with your mate, begin paying attention to your "self-talk." It;s generally accepted in the psycological community that our subconscious mind, which controls our body and our physical and emotional responses, is programmed by our conscious mind. So, whatever we tell ourselves on a conscious level is what our subconscious, and our body, believes. How we feel - tired or energetic, listless or enthusiastic - is mental, not physical."

The book goes on to give an example of how your tired and ready for bed but then an unexpected dear friend who just happened to be in the neighborhood drops by. All of a sudden your energized to talk the night through.

Anyway, this morning I'm trying to act in a way that a confident and happy person would behave (I need a bit more coffee.) It worked for me yesterday and carried me through the day. I actually bought flowers on the way home.

I thought I'd share something that sometimes helps me. Keep up the good fight.

Loy

Loy I know what you mean and I am trying to change that, we have talked more than we ever have before and the SF side has NEVER been like this before, its almost enough to wash away some of the fear, not completly but it goes away for awhile.

This shaking keeps me steady,
I should know.
It falls away ,
But always is near.
I go to bed in evening
and take my waking slow
I learn by going,
where I have to go.

I used to read alot of poetry, but forgive me if I misremeber exactly how this went but it suffices for the moment.

youll get a kick out of this, my wife doesnt want to tell me who it is because she's afraid Ill "hunt him down and kill him or something". like that would solve anything for me? probably wouldnt even make me feel better. well Loy I hope your doing ok i know how it is when you spot a little blood my wife did the same with our twins. they are 9 now almost 10
my prayers are with you
cliff

Shattered dreams,
well the time in between was hard, I knew from certain things and goings on that she had slept with someone, like she was never registered at the hotel she said she was at. she acted funny, and she (after years of very little SF which was 3 to 4 times a month) wanted to and did sleep with me every day in july '01 after that june. her excuse for not actually being at the hotel was so out there i could see right thruogh her. we separated in sep '01 and I started seeing someone else . I make no excuses for this but at the time I was stone cold inside towards my wife I couldnt belive she wouldnt tell me the truth when i just knew she had done something. we stayed separated till almost December then we moved back in together. I did tell her about the OW and the relationship I had with her. we got back together for the kids originally and from there we stayed I dont know how to describe it, just worked on getting closer then it just too much for her cause from time to time i would ask her about that summer and she finally told me. to say i was shocked was an understatement though i dont know why it should have been. I had put everything together easily ,I just knew she had slept with someone. but still when finally told the truth I cried like a baby funny huh? I guess i wanted to believe her so bad that i convinced myself that she hadnt and would never........
reality has a way of smacking you in the face just to wake you up sometimes.
thank you for your advice shattered dreams it does help and i do listen.
cliff

Very few conversations about the A nowadays, more just regular conversation. started reading SAA but she stopped after a little while calling the book "depressing" . I had to agree but refrained from saying that being in this situation is depressing. Weve had a good week and a couple of romantic dinners to go along with it, even if we waited till the kids were asleep..

hmmm funny thing this, i find im treating people differently. I guess i can see how much what i say affects people.... so i indeed try and say little as possible negative and more positive things , even if there is little positive to be found in anything.
Ive sen some people say PLAN "a" isnt about making you a better person but somehow i think it does make you a better person. just by taking what they say you should do in marriage, and by applying that too everyday life i find a little peace if not in my marriage then in the rest of my life.... treating people the way youd like to be treated, (shaking head) easy to say isnt it? but how many ACTUALLY do it?
just a thought.... god bless everyone
cliff

I know what you mean about Plan A. It is very healing, helps you recongize how people should be treated on a daily basis. Treating other people well is very comforting and relaxing. In some ways it's all you can do.

I don't think the BS needs to know about everything, but you deserve to know the name of the OM and where he works. If not knowing makes you feel vulnerable, I hope your wife will have the courage to tell you.

Well loy
the main reason i want to know who it is , is to make sure she doesnt have contact with the OM. cause after 2 years of lieing why should now i trust here when she says there has been no contact or more betrayal? if she works with him (and i suspect she does and i know the OM) I dont feel comfortable with her working where she works anymore. why else the protection of a name?
Also id love to phone his wife for a talk,maybe not realistic but still maybe satisfying in one way or another.

also another point, radical honesty is needed for a start of a rebuilding marriage starting in trust. And that honesty is lacking from my wife, she puts the other man over me when she says she wont tell me his name. I am her husband not him, her putting of him over me is repugnant to me almost like SHE did care for him or love him somewhat that she would protect him from whatever I would do.

wow is all i can think right now, was sitting on the couch and tears just started pouring down my face, I rarely cry and when i do its brief, this just kept going and going for 10 minutes. wife saw me and came over to me and started hugging me telling me how sorry she was and how she loed me.... i wasnt trying to make her feel bad it just all came out in a rush........im not used to being so emotional...

cliff

Been there, done that. I'm Mr. Old Timer Stoic Never Show Any Emotion No Matter What. But one night, about 3 months after DDay, we went to bed, and I just couldn't hold it any longer, and cried like a baby after circumcision.

My WW held me, too. Never was a word spoken, but there was a lot of information tranferred between us at that time. You may have just said volumes to your W in a wordless way.

Understand Plan A and follow it to a T. Always be pleasant and understanding. Fill her love bank at every opportunity. Spend quality time together without discussing your relationship. Choose wisely the times you do need to talk about it, and NEVER use LoveBuster's or Disrespectful Judgements. If you make the conversation threatening to her in ANY way, she will clam up, and you are back to square one.

You will doubt your own sanity while exercising Plan A, but I can tell you...it works.

Pulling for you daily

SD

thanks....

Cliff,
I saw your post and wanted to respond because there are similarities to our situations.

I, too, was my Mr. Stoic until the news of the A hit. I've cried and I've had what I'd term anxiety attacks. I'm now on AD's (Wellibutrin)

Alot of MBers go through a honeymoon period right after DDay. The marriage seems better than ever with lots of renewed SF. I think that it is important for you but especially your W to know that recovery goes through phases. Why? She currently sees your reaction to the A as reasonably loving & kind. There may, however, be a time when the anger comes out and you wonder whether you want to stay married to her. Most MBers say this comes in the 6-12 month post DDay period, but everyone is different.

You described an episode where you started crying. Thos may become more intense and frequent before they diminish. You may want to consider an AD also. Signs of depression: you start to have trouble focusing at work or you are lethargic/tired all the time or lose appetite or mood swings or you don't receive enjoyment out of things that used to make you happy.

Based upon my situation I believe what I've read about the discovery of an A being similar in nature to witnessing a horrific accident. It causes stress that not everyone can deal with alone.

Have you gone to IC or MC? I hope that the "honeymoon" lasts but if you are like 90% of MBers it won't so you should start counseling now not later when the anger or apathy hit.

cwmac

Cliff, sorry that you are here for the same reasons many of us had searched and found this site. All I can tell you is that it is very traumatic with a lot of deep emotions that you may have never experienced. It hurts so much that the crying will be part of it. There are a lot of sleepless nights and anguish. You will have many doubts and questions that will never be answered. Anger towards the other man is part of the equation. Do you have children? What is your wife doing to repair the damage? Actually, it cannot be repaired, but she must be making some effort to explain why she did it or try to figure out why she was willing to put you through all of this.
There are no clear cut answers and no clear solutions. We each handle our own situations differently. I too valued what she had given me as a very precious gift. We were the first and only for each other until the affair ruined all of that. Because we have small children, we stayed under the same roof and are working to be the friends that we once were. If you are a religious person, pray a lot and vent your frustrations that way, never tell them to her because she will hurt.

I forgot to ask, you said the A happened over three years ago and why did she tell you? What did she want to do?

actually its been work just tryting to get her to fill out the emotional needs questionaire....she doesnt want to read SAA cause its"deprssing" she said, its a work in progress.
as to why she told me, I had always suspected and asked her several times.all points added up to her having an A but she denied it for a long time... she finally told me when i asked once again about it in FEB. said it had been waying on her mind and she felt i kept that betwen us and didnt trust her when she would go anywhere. She said she wanted to get closer to me and she felt only by telling the truth would we get closer.
no couseling as of yet she has always balked at going, i have gone but talking to myself got old and quite frankly the couseler didnt seem that good maybe i should have tried someone else but being an intelligent guy i figured i could just go on by myself. "pride goeth before the fall" as they say.....my parents divorced and remarried 3 times and that was just to each other,

You should recover faster than most, but she needs to contribute to the healing process. There are some inconsistencies in your reactions, such as trusting right away. She has to regain your trust and she needs to begin by being totally honest with you and tell you all that you want to know. If she just reads Surviving an Affair and applies the principles suggested by Dr. Hartley, she will understand this. God is almighty and works in many ways. God bless you.

well we just did the EN's questionaire, quite surprising actually......... i guess my wanting to trust is maybe if i show her i trust her I actually will inside....

she asked a funny question minutes before i got on here , she asked since she told me of her affair "do i find her less attractive?"
nothing could be farther from the truth for me I love my wife and she is my angel. also she wanted to know if i really still wanted to sleep with her??? I could never see a reason that i wouldnt want to make love with my wife. almost thru SAA on my own highlighting the parts i think would most help us, will try and get her to go thru amd mark hers(with a different colour). hope i can get her to read it soon........

Cliff,
Again your W is acting similar to mine. I had bought a number of books to help with post A life and wanted to read them with her. She refused saying it was too painful.

I wish she had because recovery has been bumpy. Your W needs to know that she can't bury her head in the sand and hope that all of this gets better. It takes alot of work and she needs to be actively involved regardless of how guilty she feels.

My W thought that recovery was really for me to work on individually with her just giving support. That's wrong. It's a team effort.

Keep working with her and telling her that she needs to help.

cwmac