On Friday, 12 Mar 04, that my wife has been carrying on a cyber affair. They've been chatting for almost a year, and I don't know when it became serious. It's moved to emails, and phone calls.

I discovered the relationship after using a keystroke capture program to record her chat session. I hate doing this, and I know I was violating her privacy. I confronted her, and she suggested counseling. I agreed.

My problem is, she says she's not in love with me anymore, but she still loves me. She means everything in the world to me, and I can't imagine not having her in my life.

I'm a civillian scheduled to go to Bahgdad in 30 days for 3 months. She said the 3 month break would be good for us, but I feel just the opposite. She doesn't want me to cancel the trip.

Since last Friday, the blinders are lifted and I believe I'm seeing things with a new crystal clarity. Our first counseling session is Thursday night. But, I think it's already too late.

She sent me an email yesterday saying she told her cyber lover they would stop cybering because she wants to work on her marriage. Last night, she was cybering and eventually took it to a phone call.

I want to believe she is sincere about trying to fix our marriage, but her actions speak differently. She continues to be deceptive.

We've been able to talk some, and I understand how things fell apart. I failed her on so many levels, and she failed to help me see. She says, it's been like this for 4 years.

Inside I'm a whirlwind of emotions, sad, hurt, betrayed, disappointed in myself and her, and countless others. It's all so overwhelming. I want nothing more in the world than a chance to make things better. They continue to profess their love for each other and can't wait for the day when they are together.

I don't know what to do. I don't know what to think. It takes 2 to tango, and it feels like now that everything is in the open, that I'm the only one trying, even though she is the one that suggested counseling.

Can anyone help? I'm desperate.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

Read everything you can on this site.

Printout the Emotional Needs questionnaire and Lovebuster questionnaire. Ask if you can both sit down and fill these out together, then show them to each other.

Begin concentrating VERY hard on eliminating LB (Lovebusters) and fulfilling her top three EN (Emotional Needs).

Read Surviving an Affair (I checked it out from my library).

Ask her to send a NC letter to the OM (or men?)
Ask her to change her accounts, maybe even change your number. The A is an addiction and she will go back to it unless she makes precautions not to. A nicotine addict throws away their cigarettes and removes their ashtrays. Give her your email accounts and passwords and ask for hers. You should each check up on each other from time to time, this is not an invasion of privacy. Can she check your email anytime she wants?

Is there a possibility she can travel with you? Or stay with friends or family during this time? Get rid of the computer? Ask her what precautions she needs to remove this addiction from her life.

Well, we're both 32, and I have a 12 year old from a previous marriage and a 3 year old from this one. The 12 year old has been pretty much abandoned by her real mother, and considers my wife to be her mother.

We've been together for 7 years, and married going on our 4th.

Due to the family, her going to Baghdad with me is totally out of the question.

I'd be happy to give her my account logins/passwords, but she's still got too much to hide and would see this as an invasion of privacy. She already knows I used the keystroke capture program, because that's how I found out.

As far as A is concerned, she doesn't want to give that up. She says that's her decision to make and refuses to allow me to influence that decision.

I'll see if she's interested in doing the questionaires, but like I said, I feel like I'm the only making any attempt. She hasn't been very open to me lately. A is getting all that.

So sorry that you find yourself here. That is not a bad iea to get rid of the computer while you are gone-it may seem harsh but if she really wants to work on the marriage she will do it. CAn I ask what key stroke logger you used- does it track instant messages? My dh has never admitted still to anything so I am still cautious. But it has been a wake up call and we have started counseling- so glad you guys are going. And I totally understand your feeling lke you don't wan to go- it is normal to feel clingy and anxious after your discovery. Keep posting it will help.
Take care.
Linda

I believe it's called perfect key logger, but it only captures what she's typing, not what he's typing.

Once she found out I was using it, she downloaded an anti spy software. What's funny is the anti spy software was made by the same company.

Honestly, I don't care what he's saying, it just bothers me the extent this all went too right under my nose. How could I have been so blind?

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

Well, I've got to be about the stupidest man on the planet.

Wife called, asked what I was doing. Told her I was reading articles on this website. She asked what kind of articles, started to tell her and she said just email her.

Sent 3, all of which she said made her feel I purposely picked out the ones that said it was all her fault and what a horrible person she is.

She pretty much said she doesn't think what she's doing with this other guy is cheating. She has a female friend, she's been friends with since high school. She said I might as well say the same thing about her.

It was so difficult to stay in control. But I didn't say she was wrong. I said I thought we both had made mistakes.

Here are the articles I sent her.

What Are Plan A and Plan B?

Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other
Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn

I said, ok, if it looks like I was attacking you, I'm sorry, that was not my intention. Let me send you another one I though was important.

Why Women Leave Men

Maybe I should just call it quits and let her have it her way. I mean obviously this whole thing is only going to end the way she wants it anyway.

I just don't know how much longer I can keep doing this. I feel like I have this incredible weight on my shoulders. I had to leave work early yesterday, I was just about start bawling my eyes out. Got out just in time.

Of course, I had to mess that up to when I left her a voicemail saying I was going home early and I was sorry. Wasn't till I was driving home wiping the tears out of my eyes how that must have sounded. I was right. She thought I was going to go home and do something stupid. She said she almost called the cops.

I can't eat, when I do, it feels like I'm not going to be able to keep it down. So, I've been drinking a lot of water. Probably a good thing, seeing how all this stress has me sweating like a pig. I can't sleep, I lay there listening to keys on the keyboard clacking away. Just knowing she's talking to him makes it all but impossible to sleep. Last night she came to bed, my back was to the middle of the bed. She actually, got close and put her arm around me. I almost started crying again. I think I've lost close to 10 pounds since last Friday.

Is this my punishment? It all looks so dismal right now...

((RWukovich)) My husband is a computer addict, and I am aware of many improper "relationships" that he has had with women across the US. When I told him that I did not approve, he got very angry, and stated that what was online was not "real" life. His reason to do these things was to escape.
It truly is an addiction - (there are many addictions in our family), and I sense that my husband is obsessive/compulsive.
The bottom line is, for me, that those relationships are disrespectful of our relationship. Sharing close feelings and thoughts shoudl be with your spouse.
Through all this, I finally caught him with a lady from work last week.
So finally, he has realized that I'm hurt by his deceitful ways, and to tell you the truth, I still have not really made a firm decision to ask him to leave (have a 15 year old).
Anyway - IMHO, having cyber "friends" is a bad place to be. They are easy to fall in love with, because they are not THERE! They fall in love with love.

Vivian

VivB

You're right. But I feel so responsible for not being there for her in every way. I wish I could go back in time and change it.

Talked to her just a little while ago, and I said, all I wanted to do to was fix our marriage. She compared our relationship to a car, fixing a car isn't the only thing, you have to maintain it. I replied, but it has to be fixed before you can maintain it.

I'm scared of our first session tomorrow night. I've no idea what to expect. I know the mistakes I've made, but she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

They have expressed EXTREME interest in actually being in each other's arms. She even said it WILL happen.

I just wanna scream, cry, and hide. Why won't she work with me?

D-Day: 7

I've decided to focus on the problems that caused the riff in my marriage. Regardless of how this ends, I'll be better for it.

I mentioned earlier I'm supposed to go to Baghdad for 3 months, and I would be leaving in a month. I know she wants me to go so she can ponder the decision she has already made. The fact that she thinks she needs to ponder her decision, leads me to believe she's not completely sure of her choice. I told her that I was considering not going, and she thinks if I did that it would be to keep tabs on her or "tend" her as she put it. I have no way of convincing her, all I want to do is to win her back, and I can't do that on the other side of the world.

Yesterday, I initiated contact with a debt management program to get my financial situation under control in the event she decides she doesn't want to try again.

Night before last, I asked her if she could stay offline and spend some time with me. She made me feel she'd rather stick a red hot poker in her eye. However, last night she wasn't feeling well, and was online long enough to let OP know she wasn't going to be online because she wasn't feeling well.

I saw that as an opportunity to cater to her. We have our first counseling session tonight. Hoping the counselor can advise me whether or not I should go to Baghdad. I'm suspecting her advice will be not to go. Not entirely sure, how WW will take it.

WW and I meet though the internet surprisingly. We emailed back and forth several times a day for about a week. I brought her home the first night, and she's been with me ever since. My Dad suggested I try dating her since we never really dated. When I mentioned it to WW, I was pleasantly surprised, she expressed she was interested in that.

She's going camping with our 2 daughters. She's going to meet her friend and her 2 daughters for an all girls thing.

We did manage to set our first date though, I'm off work on Sundays and Mondays and she works M-F. We're going to have lunch on Monday. I figured I could get her some flowers. I just need to think where I could take her that would show her I was thinking of her. Thought maybe a picnic, don't know if the weather will cooperate. Anyone have any ideas?

It's the little things us girls like, the simple things, like compliments, "flattery will get you everywhere", thoughtful little actions, leave a small note before you leave in the morning, call during the day just to say Hi, tell her a joke you heard. What are her top EN's? Fulfill those. Open the car door for her, hold her hand, rub her back...

You have a month to Plan A, A, A. Also, tell her how much it is hurting you that she continues with her A partner, and yes, it is an A.
Expose the A to family and friends. Anyway to find out who he is? Does he have a W?

Online A's are particularly onerous because all they are is fantasy...it's hard to beat fantasy.

Once you go to Baghdad I would make it clear that she should be ready to decide whether she wants to TOTALLY commit to the M (and spell out what that means, that OW is COMPLETELY out of the picture) or that she should be moved out. Basically, turn your departure into a Plan B of sorts...you may want to fully implement a Plan B if she decides to leave the house.

StillHereMakingIt

I've been telling, her how much I love her, why I love her, what she means to me. I still touch her, hug her. She hasn't had to do much of anything around the house this week. I showed her a copy of the article Why Women Leave Men, and she agreed I'm guilty of some, if not all, of them.

Last night I wrote her a little note, telling her how wonderful she is, and how much I love her. I stuck it in her purse this morning. Just wondering at this point if she'll even acknowledge it.

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

lovemyhubby

Ya know, weird part is I always thought to myself, if I was ever in this position, there would be no doubt what would happen. We'd split up and that would be the end of that.

But, it happened. I realized how much I love her, and what I would willingly put myself through for her. I feel I'm in this incredibly deep pit of despair, but the ring on my finger and the overwhelming love I feel for her give me what appears to be the briefest sparks of hope.

I realize what she's going through is an addiction, but you can't save someone that doesn't want saving. She said she's not in love with me anymore.

Here's what I don't understand. D-Day was last Friday. Imagine my surprise Sunday morning when she climbed into the shower with me. She still tells me I love you. She still sleeps next to me, even going so far as to snuggle up against me and put an arm over me. I see all of these things in the real world, but in the virtual world it's a completely different story.

Thank you for your support. Before I found this website, I didn't know where to turn, who to talk to. I was surprised how good it felt, to poor all this stuff here. This place is wonderful.

I'm happy for you that you were able to pull yourself out of the fog. If this works out for me, I know I'll be helping WW deal with the same thing.

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

WW called. She found my note I left for her in her purse. She said she thought that was sweet.

Told her I just wanted to let her know I was thinking about her, even if I have a hard time showing it.

Time to make my list of things I want to discuss with the counselor tonight.

Had counseling session last night. Have to say I have mixed feelings.

WW feels she doesn't know if she can/wants to rebuild the M. I know I was completely honest last night, for some reason, I think she's still holding back.

WW says everything about me irritates her, and that I'm more like a roommate.

I advised since DDay, I've been trying everything I can to be a better person, and that since I see clearly now, I'm committed to giving 100% to rebuild M.

Counselor tried explaining that being "In Love" is just an infatuation that fades in every relationship, and that loving someone is different things.

She said if we do this, she can try to commit 100% to it. She says she can try to give up OM. She sounds reluctant.

I asked if she'd give me one last chance, and she said all she could do is try as well, but couldn't promise anything because of the void/rift that's come between us. The counselor at this point felt she was making this decision under pressure, and suggested thinking about it until our next session next Thursday.

After the session, she was upset with me. Understandably so, since like I said, I was completely honest, I admitted to still using spy ware. I brought it up early on, to try and head off any of the lies/deception that she's been telling me. I think WW wasn't expecting to be caught in the lies/deception in front of the counselor.

Counselor asked if I could wait another week. I said WW did this for 4 years, no reason I can't last another week.

WW also mentioned she would have moved out by now if it weren't for the kids, and her budget is so tight.

This morning she said she thought I should still go to Baghdad. I told her I already called it off after I got home last night.

Sigh, I just don't know. If she agrees to commit 100% I'm going to pull out the NC letter from here and ask if we can fill it out together.

Ideas? Thoughts? Opinions?

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

Hi RW

..not sure if you saw my post before your last 2 but please read that one too if you havent already .. I just wanted to add one more thing on this one and that is so say whatever you do ...Dont Go To Baghdad right now!!..

I really believe if you go now your marriage will deteriorate even further. She is deep in the fog of this addiction and I believe she is not ready to let go of the OM.

I wish you luck. Keep talking, make her accountable, keep checking on her..(she hasnt earned your trust yet).. and love her if she allows you to get close. I hope you are reading the marriagebuilders books. They are wonderful and are what has saved my marriage I believe. Also...take care of yourself. :-)

Thinking of you,
Lmh

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lovemyhubby:
I am having a hard time understanding where your wife is..where is her head right now? I still cant imagine that she, knowing you know about her online affair, still wants to continue it..and still wants to be close to you and pretend you have a normal marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, the problem in our relationship appearantly started 4 years ago. So basically, she's been living a lie all this time. Because of how long this has been going on, she's completely cut herself off from me. Now that the blinders are off and I'm seeing things crystal clear, and wanting to redevelop our relationship, she's considering just calling it quits.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you discuss things with her?.. Has she agreed to counseling at least?.. Does she still insist on spending time with the OM even though you are in so much pain over this?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been discussing everything she'll discuss with me. Since D-Day, I've not lost my temper, patience, yelled, or any other LB. She's the one who suggested MC on D-Day. We had our first session last night. More info on that in post above. So far, this has only been an EA, but she did express before counseling that she is reluctant to end communication with OM. She posted online that she hates seeing my hurt, but I think she's become so seperated from our relationship, that it doesn't have the impact you would think.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are doing the right thing trying to understand her, in loving her, being close to her when she is with you, however have you set any limits? Have you insisted this inappropriate relationship end? Or does she really think she can have her cake and eat it too? I'm just curious. I know in my situation I had to realize what I was doing was giving all my emotional energy and much of my time to the OM.. he is the person I thought about and spent the majority of my time with for many months.. I finally began to see this for what it was.. addiction to fantasyland, a way to make me feel alive, a way to have more excitement in my life... at first.. and it was wonderful..but slowly the guilt of betrayal and the insecurites start to creep in as you become more needy of this person..and soon you are dealing with a relationship with all the ups and downs just like in the real world...there is alot of frustration in being involved this way and maybe you can see it in your wife now that you know whats going on with her.. I hope for your sake she starts to look at what is real and what is illusion and fantasy.. But I do think you need to help her find her limits...That is a part of helping her come out of the fog of addiction..Love her but be strong too.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on how fragile the relationship is now, she feels and requests to seperate her from OM is an unreasonable demand. To use her words, she thinks I'm still not listening and can't see the forest for the trees. I understood what she meant was, she wanted me to focus on the things that caused the problems in the first place, and not the result which is the EA with OM. I tried telling her I think I understand what's she's feeling, but she doesn't think I do. She doesn't see the EA as a fantasy, she's ready to make it reality. Last night was our first counseling session, and I'll find out next Thursday if we have a chance or not. She knows, if she gives me another chance that NC with OM goes into effect. However, I'm thinking she'll continue while at work, she knows she can get away with it there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lovemyhubby:
..not sure if you saw my post before your last 2 but please read that one too if you havent already .. I just wanted to add one more thing on this one and that is so say whatever you do ...Dont Go To Baghdad right now!!..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told WW after D-Day I was considering not going. She promptly posted online I wanted to cancel trip to keep tabs on her or "tend" her as she put it. Once counseling session was made, I told her I was going to base my decision on the recommendation of the professional counselor. The counselor of course, told me what I already knew. Going to Baghdad would not be a good idea, and I shouldn't go. This morning WW said she felt I should still go, I told her I called my boss last night and already told him I couldn't go. She got upset and accused me of once again making a decision without her. I thought this was kind of odd based on the events that have been transpiring.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really believe if you go now your marriage will deteriorate even further. She is deep in the fog of this addiction and I believe she is not ready to let go of the OM.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, which is why I decided not to go before I ever got to counseling, but didn't give my boss the firm, "No, I'm not going" until after the session. And no, she does not want to let go of OM. I just can't believe she's willing to tear our family apart for OM she's never met.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish you luck. Keep talking, make her accountable, keep checking on her..(she hasnt earned your trust yet).. and love her if she allows you to get close. I hope you are reading the marriagebuilders books. They are wonderful and are what has saved my marriage I believe. Also...take care of yourself. :-)

Thinking of you,
Lmh </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trust is something we're going to have to work on really hard. I've not had a chance to read any MB books, but I've read the online articles. I do have a paperback I'm reading called Ignite her Fire, it's designed to help bring the romance back into our life. Money is a little tight right this moment, but as soon as I get some more, I'll be heading up to Borders. Want to get Surviving an Affair. I appreciate you sharing your perspective with me, considering you were in the same place. I'm happy you were able to pull yourself out of the fog and get your life back. I just hope WW decides to work on this instead of running into OM's arms.