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#445323 04/29/04 02:34 PM
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Talked with WW some. Turns out she lost interest in sending out Resumes. Appearantly she was surprised I mapped out the mileage from the place she was sending resumes to to OM's location. She said she hadn't done that.

She also said I did a 180 on my position of relocating. Not sure what she means by that, I've been telling her all along I'd relocate if there was an us.

She also indicated that our session yesterday made her feel guilty, not sure what about. Looking for another job maybe. I guess the locations she picked makes it look like she's trying to get closer to OM. She says it isn't, but I find that real hard to swallow. FOG talk I think.

#445324 04/29/04 08:20 PM
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Sounds like things are going fairly well with you. WW is going to have to make a decision, so stick to your boundaries. It is miserable going through this, but in the long run you will be glad you did it.

#445325 04/30/04 07:06 AM
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Believer: At times it seems likes it's going fairly well, but other times it feels like we take a step forward and 2 steps back. After making my decision to go through this, I realized 1 of 2 things will happen. First, we'll have a relationship much better than it ever was, or Second, if it comes to the big D, I'll be able to move on with my life and be an incredibly better person for it. Thank you for all your support, and I really hope your efforts are rewarded as well.

Well, managed to get everything cleared up last night. Turns out, she felt I wanted to choose what jobs she applied for. She didn't fully understand appearantly my perspective.

I had to spell it out for her. I'm afraid to relocate somewhere near OM just to have her dump me later, or her have another PA.

I think it finally sank in, she actually said if we relocated some where it's because there would be an "US". If/When she gets a job offer, she'll get off the fence and make her decision.

I had to further explain, with everything that's happened, there just isn't any trust or security in our relationship, and moving there would eat at me.

Now, here's the part that baffles me, and blows my mind. After all the emails, and talking we did yesterday, and she finally got what I was saying, she wanted to have sex. Not that I'm complaining, because I still love her with all my heart. But, every time she feels the need to tell me "it's just sex, cuz she's horny". Afterwards, I told her you don't need to keep telling me that. She said, yes she does, because she doesn't want me to think everything is suddenly ok. Her fear is things will fall back into the old routine before this all happened. I told her, you know, I'll know when it's not just sex to her anymore. The "I love you" during or after would tell me that.

We've had more sex during this all started, than we did before. Well, it is one of her top 5 EN's. And with the date schedule the counselor has us on, and the chatting we're doing from 2 different rooms.

I'm meeting all of her top 5 EN's. Recreational Companionship-Conversation(she counted as one), Honesty and Openness, Affection, Family Commitment, and Sexual Fulfillment. I guess a good point, is those are all my top 5(6) EN's as well.

Tonight is Date Night, we're going to a new coffee shop that she thinks has poetry slams. Not sure if they'll be doing that tonight, but we'll see. I know she likes, poetry, and art. I see this as an opportunity to share something she's passionate about with her. Something we've never done.

I always thought of the roller coaster effect as being from one day to the next. Guess this is the first time the day started off bad and ended good. I feel bad complaining sometimes, especially from reading about other people in these forums that have been doing this for months/years. I bow to you all.

#445326 04/30/04 09:21 PM
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hey RW no need to bow or anything, it is always hardest at the beginning not at the end.................

#445327 04/30/04 09:32 PM
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What is wrong with just sex? As long as you and she have been tested for STD's, I don't see the problem.

#445328 05/01/04 07:08 AM
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Cliff: You're right, guess I'm just patiently waiting for it to get easier.

Believer: There is nothing wrong with just sex. Just don't think she needs to tell me every time we're about to that it's just sex to her and not making love.

Date Night was last night, WW called me from work to change our plans to going to see a movie. I was like, ok, whatever. Well, on the way home, she calls me again to ask if we can reschedule Date Night. Appearantly, a story was taken away from her and a coworker because the editor wasn't happy they didn't have it ready to go out this weekend. Well, jeez, I obviously don't want to look like the bad guy, so I say, yeah, sure, that's ok. She says are you sure you're not mad? I'm like I'm not mad, I'm disappointed.

To top it all off, she kissed DD(3) goodbye (we were laying on the couch together, it was bedtime) and then she gives me a kiss. I felt like it was a show for her coworker that was there. Before she left, she says, I have my cell phone with me if I need anything. Ok, since she got the darn thing, they are inseperable, of course it's with her. Not to mention, if I even thought of calling her, then I'm checking up on her or keeping tabs. WW didn't come home until 2:30 in the morning, woke me up when she came in the garage door. I wonder if she's going to call when she wakes up.

Sigh, here's a weekend off to a rocky start. I hate working Saturdays.

<small>[ May 01, 2004, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

#445329 05/01/04 08:26 AM
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WW is planning to attend a horse event in Kentucky at the end of May. I saw a post OM made on the art website they post to that indicates he's saving up for a trip he's making this month. I suspect they plan on meeting at this horse event.

Any suggestions?

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

#445330 05/01/04 08:54 AM
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Make plans to go with her, take the girls too make it a family thing and dont back down from it.....see how she reacts.......
I sometimes wonder if i had done the same thing when i just "felt" something was wrong the day they spent together , would they have? I dont know could have worked out they would have met some other way...... Its in your court my friend.just make it a family trip no matter how much it costs or whatever you have to do to go......
always here for you my friend
cliff

#445331 05/01/04 11:08 AM
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Thanks Cliff, but, talked to her this morning. Turns out WW and her best friend decided it would be too expensive to do the Kentucky thing. So appearantly they are going to Best Friends house to do grown up things. It's over Memorial Day weekend, and Best Friend won't have her kids, and WW won't have our kids. It would be a perfect opportunity for her to meet OM at best friends house, especially since Best Friend talks to OM too.

Don't see how I can insist anything at this point. Guess, the only thing I can do at this point is to see what happens between now and Memorial Day weekend.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

#445332 05/01/04 05:53 PM
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RW:
I agree with Cliff go on the trip, but if it's too expensive for her to go then I guess you don't have to worry about it.

One thing you could do if she goes to BF over Memorial Day is to drop in unexpectedly. (You know like the girls wanted to see Mom.) If OM is there, maybe you confront him. I mean, I wouldn't call what you have a M, so could it really hurt that much. Physically no, mentally yes. But she gets to see that you're willing to fight for what is yours. Something to think about. Guess you have sometime to figure that one out.

Good luck and God Bless!

#445333 05/01/04 09:01 PM
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Well, LB'd big time. We were out on the porch smoking, and she made a reference about me being a drama queen because I'm using anti-anxiety medicine. It really hurt my feelings, because I felt she just didn't understand. She responded when she was feeling those feelings long ago, she got through it with no medication.

So, I went inside and made a big show out of throwing them into the garbage. She said don't be an idiot. So I confronted her about my opinion that OM isn't moved back in with his W, but with his mom, she was like where did I get that? I accused her of lying, and she asked where I got that idea and that I didn't know what I was talking about. Well, then I really did it and mentioned that I knew OM was planning on making a trip at the end of the month like she is and all that implies. Well, OM is in Hudson NY and she said his plans are to go to Salem. Not sure I believe that, but I still believe OM is NOT living with his W.

Needless to say, she left to go do one of her wiccan things, Full Moon Ritual or something. After she left, I called her on her cell phone, and she at least talked to me. She accepted my apology for calling her a liar, and I told her I regretted saying it, especially after I realized what I said. I then told her, that my throwing the pills into the garbage was being a drama queen. Making this long story short. I know she's still upset, but not as upset. She still thinks I'm using spyware, which I'm not, but I can't make her believe that.

Anyway, I guess we'll see how things are going when she gets home. Oh, and I got the pills back out of the garbage. I realized though, I may not need them. As each day goes on and I have to deal with her betrayal every day, it gets easier. Not sure what that means.

#445334 05/01/04 09:28 PM
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Have you ever got the contact information for the OM?

#445335 05/02/04 08:03 AM
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I think you are doing a good job. Don't worry too much about who OM is living with. Just keep working on yourself and the marriage. If she decides to relocate, let her go and tell her to send child support.

I would not go with her. She needs to make up her mind that her fantasy is over, time to work on the marriage.

#445336 05/02/04 01:36 PM
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RW- I know that your self-esteem is in the toilet. But you have provided a good life for your WW and kids.

I got a horse when I was 12 and kept her until I went to college. It has been my life-long dream to get another one. But in California, it is just too expensive.

So give yourself some credit, and don't be sucked into her drama. I would trade places with her in a minute. She has it made, and just needs to figure that out.

#445337 05/02/04 08:32 PM
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Recovering_H: I have OM's work number, work email, and personal email. But he's recently moved. WW says he moved back in with his W. Doesn't matter at this point. It will once WW decides to stay in marriage or not.

Believer: That's what WW and counselor have both been telling me all along. Stop worrying about OM and worry about working on my relationship with WW, which is in the toilet.

I've come to the conclusion part of my problem maybe that I've neglected the spiritual side of myself for so long, that it's affecting the physical side.

So, I'm working on getting some inner peace and harmony. I think once I've accomplished that, I'll be able to stop damaging the work WW and I have been doing on our relationship.

I've got to focus on getting WW on my side of the fence before I can worry about who's on the other side looking in.

Oh, btw, get this, WW lost her wedding ring at the Full Moon Ritual. She's lost so much weight, her ring doesn't fit snuggly anymore. She told me the other day how it came off in the shower. Well, it was rainy last night, and she shook her hands and it flew off into the grass.

I've obtained a metal detector, and gotten permission from the state run historical place to use the metal detector to find the ring. Hard part is she was on top of a mound that's 1 to 2 acres in size, and she's not sure where on top she was. It's in the shape of a rectangle, so I'm going to start on the parking lot side of the mound and work my way down. WW thinks I'm crazy for going through so much trouble for a 50 dollar ring. I told her it's not just a 50 dollar ring to me. She said, she doesn't usually put much sentimentality into physical objects, but if it had a diamond on it, it would be a different story.

Well, I'm getting that darned ring, if I have to cover the whole freaking mound.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

#445338 05/02/04 08:51 PM
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I think it is good that you work on yourself. We BS's come kind of unhinged while going through this trauma.

I lost my wedding ring horseback riding. It was loose and somehow while I was holding the reins it came off. I looked for it, but had gone miles and miles on trails and never found it. Good luck.

#445339 05/03/04 10:36 PM
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Thanks for the support Believer.

I believe, all of the altercations that have occured since the onset of this nightmare are a product of my own creation. I'm so full of negativity, and that's not healthy.

Spent 2.5 hours looking for that darned ring this morning. No luck. I got the cheap metal detector from Radio Shack, but it just wasn't powerful enough to deal with the grass. No worries I guess. WW hasn't really felt married to me in a long time anyway. All she misses is the sensation of a ring, could be any ring, that was on her finger. Like our marriage I'm sure that will fade in time too.

However, she did mention if we stay together, she'd like to replace it with a knotwork band.

No date night last week, and Sunday Family day was nonexistant. Then again, she was still upset with me yesterday. Today, our lunch date went ok, I guess. We were able to have a decent conversation. She didn't want to kiss me bye this morning, but she did kiss me bye when I dropped her off at work. Since she's been home....well, just more distance I think.

Practicing deep breathing techniques for relaxation. Have yet to take that into meditation. I feel, if I can maintain a positive environment, should see something eventually.

I guess I could say, I'm finally swimming with the current instead of against it. I've been fighting this situation and I'm tired. Guess I'll see where the current takes me.

There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path.

#445340 05/05/04 08:33 AM
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Today is counseling day. Aside from this past Saturday night, I don't think I have anything negative to say at counseling today. Probably I'll acknowledge all our altercations since this began were initiated by me, with all my negative thoughts and feelings. Difficult to overlook OM, but until I can get WW to commit to the marriage, kinda pointless to focus on OM. So, not sure what WW will add.

WW was friendly yesterday. When she got home, I made my self scarce. WW and the girls were on WW's bed doing tickle torture. They called for me to come up. Had fun for awhile, all of us. Was very nice. DD(3) ran off to do her find something to get in trouble thing. WW ran off DD(12). Suddenly I realized, WW were alone laying on the bed.

We were both laying width wise on our stomachs, but WW scooted closer then rolled on her side with her back to me. She scooted even closer until she was against me. I got the hint, she wanted me to hold her. That was nice. That's more than she's wanted from me since this past weekend.

My new improved positive approach seems to be paying off for me. I find myself much less anxious or tense. Really making an effort to block all the negative thoughts that want to creep into my head. I'm finding it's not a constant battle anymore. I figure, there will be a time to address those negative thoughts, but now is not it.

I just find it rather odd, to be needed by someone who says they're not in love with me, and not sure they ever were. I definitly believe that was fog talk when that rolled out.

I'm hoping today's counseling session is the first real positive session yet. It's gotten to the point WW and I both don't look forward to it. But I am today.

#445341 05/06/04 12:16 AM
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your entire thread brings me back to a member named GSM who posted here for over a year, a while back. he was on the emotional needs board and in my opinion, there never was a man who tried harder to save his marriage.

you two guys sound sound much alike that it's crazy. the scary thing is that your Ws sound alike as well...of course i'm only hearing your side of the problem but when i read your posts i get the same sick feeling in my stomach i used to get when i read his.

here's the thing. tangible progress has to be more then just wishful thinking. has it occured to you that patience is not always a virtue? that you may have a right to loose your temper and that you don't always have to apologize for being human? that maybe your W's once sided approach to things is not in error but may be pure selfishness and opportunism on her part?

right now it sounds to me as if your W is content to have you around as her life style alternative...kind of the chioce that's always there for her to fall back on...the man that if managed correctly (with a minimum of effort on her part) will just always be there as a fall back alternative. and frankly, if you want to not just save your marriage but have a real one to boot (fancy that?!) then your W is going to have to develop a new vision of who you are?

sorry guy but you're sounding just to nice. civility and good manners are never out o place but either is saying it how you feel or telling it like it is. that's called honesty last time i looked and it sounds to me that your W needs a good dose.

coach

#445342 05/05/04 01:41 PM
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Coach:

Thanks for posting. Don't think I don't tell her how I feel, and what I think. Because I do, all the time. I never let her forget it.

We go to marriage counseling every week. At the moment, she's just trying to decide if she even wants to stay in the marriage. I've already made it clear, if she does, then I will accept nothing less than NC with OM for ever.

All I'm trying to do right now, is pull her stubborn butt off the fence, on my side. Then the real work can begin. Believe me, right now I might appear to be a doormat, and I feel it too. But she's going to have to make a choice, me or OM. There is a time limit on how long I'm going to wait for her to decide. But the real work on honesty, trust, loyalty, morality, and anything else you think of, can't happen until she decides.

So, I'm doing the best I can with all things considered. At this point, 1 of 2 things is going to happen, she will leave, or we'll begin working on a relationship I'd like to think will be much stronger than before.

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

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